You're Killing Smalls - My K98 Woes

[scrane]

I could never see the point of replica airguns. Molding function to form seems backwards.

[Wayne52]

I do love shooting the powder burners too but it can get mighty pricey if you plan on shooting a bunch.

I've only fired the K98 a few times but they're a good action and very accurate.

I've got more replica pistols than I need but I think out of all of them I enjoy the John Wayne Duke in pellet.

I really love shooting a single action colt/colt style pistol.

[Steelontarget]

I do love shooting the powder burners too but it can get mighty pricey if you plan on shooting a bunch.

I've only fired the K98 a few times but they're a good action and very accurate.

I've got more replica pistols than I need but I think out of all of them I enjoy the John Wayne Duke in pellet.

I really love shooting a single action colt/colt style pistol.

I know what you mean.  I almost got the Webley MK VI.  It brings out the Indiana Jones in me.  The only thing that stopped me was that it was for BBs and they already have a pellet version in Europe.  So I decided to wait for the pellet version to show up here.  That's another thing I can't stand; waiting for a pellet version of the Webley MK VI.  In the meantime, does anyone know where I can get a good bullwhip?



My CO2 dream gun would also be a pellet version of the Webley–Fosbery Automatic Revolver.  Alas, we can only dream.

[Horatio]

I do love shooting the powder burners too but it can get mighty pricey if you plan on shooting a bunch.

I've only fired the K98 a few times but they're a good action and very accurate.

I've got more replica pistols than I need but I think out of all of them I enjoy the John Wayne Duke in pellet.

I really love shooting a single action colt/colt style pistol.

I know what you mean.  I almost got the Webley MK VI.  It brings out the Indiana Jones in me.  The only thing that stopped me was that it was for BBs and they already have a pellet version in Europe.  So I decided to wait for the pellet version to show up here.  That's another thing I can't stand; waiting for a pellet version of the Webley MK VI.  In the meantime, does anyone know where I can get a good bullwhip?



My CO2 dream gun would also be a pellet version of the Webley–Fosbery Automatic Revolver.  Alas, we can only dream.

Never handled one in real life. But the break open webleys seem neat.

[Horatio]

Btw, Indiana Jones Rocks!

Dan Wallace is Indiana Jones in real life. No joke.
look it up.

http://www.csntm.org/

[Steelontarget]

Btw, Indiana Jones Rocks!

Dan Wallace is Indiana Jones in real life. No joke.
look it up.

http://www.csntm.org/

Thanks for the link. I'll have to read it when it's not so late.

I've handled quite a few Webleys but didn't get one because of the ammunition.

Webley supposedly had plans to start making it again in .455 and .357 and call it the MK VIII.

I have the Schofield in .45 colt but waiting for a pellet version instead of the BB variant.

[Steelontarget]

*EDIT* I just realized that I was using the term piston sleeve instead of sliding compression chamber.  Changed accordingly below. Sorry for any confusion.

I got the rifle this evening but too late to take it to the outdoor range to see how she performs.  So, I shot it at the indoor targets at 7 yards.

I hate to admit it but my eyes aren't what they used to be.  The Mauser front sight is really hard to see.  I can still make out the front sight of the M-1 Garand and the 1903 Springfield as well as the aperture front sights of my other target rifles but the Mauser causes me problems.

Nevertheless, I've attached my best and worst targets for this evening shot from a rest at 7 yards.  I will be mounting a scope on it in the morning and take it to the outdoor range in the afternoon.

The sling won't get here until Monday.  With that said, I am going to hold off on squirrel hunting with this beast.  I can carry heavy rifles with the best of them but still prefer a sling.

My hearing isn't the best so I'm not the one to ask if the Diana is a "twanger."  However, I could feel it in the stock.  This thing will bark and move when you pull the trigger.

I removed the stock to take a peek at the internals and it looked like the spring didn't have much lubricant on it, if any.  Which would explain why I could hear the spring compressing a little when cocking the rifle. So I only added a couple of drops of Beeman spring oil on the spring.  A few dozen pellets later and the rifle sounded normal.

My first shots were from a seated position with a Primos tripod for a rest; using my hand underneath the forend.  With the butt resting on the floor between my legs, the rifle wasn't difficult to cock at all.  I used one hand to get the cocking lever started on the downward stroke then when it was half-way through its travel, I used the left hand to help bring it down the rest of the way.

A word of caution is in order here.  The safety is very easy to move from the SAFE to the FIRE position.  I soon discovered that, from a seated position, if I bumped the top rear portion of the rifle against my left leg while raising it to my shoulder that I would inadvertently bump the safety to FIRE.

When I cocked the rifle from a standing position I didn't have a problem with the smooth metal butt plate slipping off my leg.  When cocking the rifle, I placed the butt plate to where the top portion would be slightly touching the pelvic bone that protrudes below the waistline on my left side.  The butt plate is angled to align itself with the area where the top inner thigh meets the groin. 

I hope that is a little clearer than motor oil.  Then I take my right hand and move the cocking lever down while steadying the rifle with my left hand.  About the time that the cocking lever gets half-way through its travel, I bend forward, taking my left hand around the left side of the rifle to grab the cocking lever so both hands will be moving it in the downward stroke.

While moving the left hand around the left side of the rifle to the cocking lever, my upper body will naturally bend downward and also result in the rifle being cradled by the upper torso with the part of the receiver near the loading port near the pocket of my left shoulder.  At this point, I am almost hugging the rifle while the butt plate is secured in the "groove" between the upper thigh and the groin.

This sounds odd but that rifle isn't going anywhere because that butt plate isn't slipping.  So I continue pulling down on the cocking lever with both hands until it latches.  Now I can straighten up with my left hand holding the cocking lever down and keeping the butt plate in the thigh-groin area.  Now my right hand is free to grab a pellet and load it.

Speaking of loading; I only dropped one pellet tonight.  So I shook the rifle and it fell through the opening below the breech of the barrel.  Much has been said about the rear sight interfering with placing the pellet in the barrel.

That presented a little bit of a challenge.  Now keep in mind that my left hand will not come off the cocking lever.  I want to keep my fingers.

So I grab the pellet and with it between the thumb and first finger, I feel for the end of the barrel and align the point of the pellet with the breech.  Once it's started in the breech, I use my thumb to push the pellet in the rest of the way.

All this was pretty easy but my hands weren't cold or wet either.  This was also with a .177 pellet weighing 10.5 grains.

Before getting the rifle I researched the use of breech blocks for cleaning and discovered some ingenious solutions.  You will want something to block the sliding compression chamber from slamming shut on your fingers while cleaning the barrel. 

I decided to keep things simple.  I cut a 5/8" dowel rod to a little less than 2.2 inches in length.

Then I drilled a hole about 3/8 inches from the end for a string to go through with knots tied so it won't slip through the hole.

I pull the cocking lever down far enough to put the dowel rod in the breech so it rests on the bottom of the compression tube.  You will find that the round dowel rod will naturally want to come to rest in the bottom and align itself with the slot at the bottom.

Once the dowel rod is in place, slowly permit the cocking lever to retract until the compression chamber has stopped moving forward because of the dowel rod.

Now you are free to clean the barrel with whatever method you choose without fear of the action slamming shut on your fingers.

After cleaning, move the cocking lever down far enough to allow the removal of the dowel rod by pulling on the string.  Once the dowel rod is clear, you can allow the cocking lever to slowly return to the position against the barrel.  And the rifle is NOT cocked.  So you don't have to worry about putting a pellet in the gun and firing it to decompress the spring.

Hopefully the photos will help explain everything.

In summary, my initial impressions of the rifle are good.  It's a powerful air gun.  The trigger is better than I expected.  The first stage pull is a little long but not real heavy.  The second stage breaks clean but light enough that I'm not struggling to keep the sights aligned while pulling the trigger.

I will have more details later.

Thanks to everyone for their failure to talk me out of getting the rifle.

[Steelontarget]

I took the rifle to the range yesterday and it turned out that I could not get enough elevation to bring the point of impact up at the zero distance of 30 yards.  So the rest of the session was spent shooting the rifle with iron sights; which for my eyes are hard to see now.

Nevertheless, I have attached at target from yesterday in which I managed to get about a 2-inch group.

The light was not good enough for chronograph readings so I fell back on another scientific test.  I call it the can-of-creamed-corn test.  If the pellet can penetrate a can of creamed corn at 30 yards, then it will go through a squirrel’s skull and is good enough for me.  See the attached photo.

I will be putting on another scope and make another try today.

On three occasions, when I shot the rifle it sounded like a .22 LR went off creating quite a surprise.

The cause was traced to the cocking lever coming unlatched and falling down due to a slight bump on the bags.  This in turn would not allow the compression chamber to remain in place during the firing sequence, causing air to escape and sounding like a .22 LR!

This was not noticed as I was behind the rifle and did not feel the lever moving out of position prior to firing.

I also noticed a small spring in the cocking mechanism had fallen out of place.  So I took the stock off the rifle then stretched the spring with a couple of needle-nose pliers.  That solved that problem.  See the attached photos.

I was up until midnight looking for a solution to keep the cocking lever in place.  The fact that it can come unlatched prior to firing the rifle is unacceptable. 

The RWS 460 owner’s manual addresses this problem with an adjustment of the retaining mechanism under the front sight.  However, this will not work as the K98 sight is not like the 460.  The only latch keeping it in place is a spring-loaded latch inside the forward most barrel band.

I inspected the inside of the barrel band where the latch and spring reside and figured that putting a stronger spring may not even solve the problem of the cocking lever unlatching.

After much experimentation, trial and error I decided to use strips of adhesive backed Velcro.

Okay, I will give you a few minutes to stop laughing then you can continue reading and look at the attached photos.

When you turn the rifle upside down, notice how there is some space between the barrel bands and the cocking lever.  I thought that if I could put some sort of “snubber” in place to block the movement of the cocking lever then my problem would be solved.

I hope I am using the correct term “snubber.”  If not, please feel free to correct me.  The snubbers in this case must be thick enough to stop any inadvertent movement of the cocking lever but thin enough that it can still be moved out of position for cocking with a little finger pressure.

The material that I came up with for the snubber was the Velcro strip with adhesive backing.  Take a look at the photos before reading any further.

Notice that the Velcro strips are cut to fit and stuck on the inside of the barrel bands.  A couple of important points now need to be made.

1)  Don’t use the Velcro strip that feels like cloth or shag carpet.  It is too thick and will retain moisture.  Use the coarse or rough feeling Velcro strip.

2)  Cut the strips to the size that they will NOT be touching the cocking lever once it is latched.  That causes too much an additional force needed to unlatch the cocking lever.  Remember that you want enough of an impediment to prevent inadvertent movement but not so much that you will wear out your fingers after 2-3 shots. 

The solution to sizing the Velcro snubbers is to cut them so that they will only contact the cocking lever during its travel in and out of the barrel bands.  After they are cut to size and pressed in place, they will be barely touching the cocking lever at the 4 and 8 o’clock positions as if you were looking at the muzzle end of the rifle.

The thickness and friction inherent in the Velcro prevents additional movement of the cocking lever if it is set down with too much force on a rest for shooting.  I could have used only two Velcro strips but found that it was not enough to prevent movement of the cocking lever when I shook the rifle really hard.

I’m not satisfied with “safe enough.”  I want it really safe.  So I installed a total of 4 Velcro strips inside of both barrel bands with the aforementioned method.  After that, I shook the rifle as hard as I could and the cocking lever remained latched.

If you modify your rifle this way, you will find that it takes only a little more finger pressure to unlatch the cocking lever to cock the rifle.  I shot it some more at my indoor target after the modification and haven’t had any problems with sore fingers.

The only worry that I have with the DIY Velcro snubbers is the bluing may eventually wear off the cocking lever.  However, I have noticed a little bluing coming off where it comes into contact with the latch and barrel bands anyway.  That is the price that I will pay to keep the rifle safe.

The wrench supplied with the rifle is used to remove the barrel nut in front of the front sight to remove the sight, barrel bands, wood pieces of the stock and a couple of barrel sleeves.

Between the barrel bands and one of the sleeves are a couple of O-rings.  I noticed that one of the O-rings was bulging out of place.  I experimented with different O-rings on hand to stop the bulging but came to the conclusion that it is not causing any major problems.  Besides, O-rings are easy to replace if that one breaks.

[dwalk]

you were, most likely, warned by many, that this is a forum of enablers... ...you have only yourself to blame! 

[Steelontarget]

you were, most likely, warned by many, that this is a forum of enablers... ...you have only yourself to blame! 

Yep; it's sort of like going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting at a sports bar.

I shot it yesterday with a 3X crossbow scope on it as I couldn't get enough elevation with an old Burris airgun scope.  I even added shims to the Burris and still couldn't get enough elevation. 

I chose the crossbow scope as a stop-gap measure as it's better than the iron sights and the parallax is set at 20 yards.  So shooting at 20 and beyond isn't a problem.

Nevertheless, I still wasn't satisfied with that scope on the rifle.  So I took a 4-12X-40 AO Vortex off of my S&W M&P 15-22 and put it on my lovely Diana K98.

This is the part where I felt like a spoiled teenage girl trying on dozens of prom dresses. 

Then I took the matte finish 4-12X Burris Airgun scope off of the Beeman R7 and put it on the S&W M&P 15-22 because the glossy finish Burris was cosmetically out of place on the latter.

Then I took the glossy finish 4-12X Burris Airgun scope and put it on the R7.

Now everyone is happy (I hope).  I say that because I'm worried that I may not be able to get enough elevation out of the Burris scope that is now on the M&P 15-22 to get it zeroed in at 50 yards.

Both the R7 and the K98 are on the paper at 7 yards in my indoor range.  They should be close at 30 yards at the outdoor range.

I wanted to put a straight 6X scope on the K98 but haven't seen any that I like or can afford at this time.  The 4-12X-40 AO Vortex appears to be an anachronism on the K98.  But then again, the entire air rifle is an anachronism because it doesn't have a bolt and other things.

Regardless of all that, when I shoulder the K98, the Vortex scope feels just right for that rifle.  That gives me an idea for a children's book; "Goldilocks and The Three Rifles."

I forgot to mention that with the 3X scope I was getting 1 inch groups with the K98 at 30 yards.  Hopefully I can improve on that with the Vortex scope.

[LONGTIMESHOOTER]

I feel your pain.Pull the trigger.

[Steelontarget]

I feel your pain.Pull the trigger.

Oh well; if you insist.

[Yogi]

Long journey.
Very interesting solution....
Do the pellets just pierce one side of the can of corn or do they go all the way through?

-Y

[Steelontarget]

Long journey.
Very interesting solution....
Do the pellets just pierce one side of the can of corn or do they go all the way through?

-Y

The pellets, at 30 yards, penetrate the can to the other side.  The attached photo is of the back side of the can.

Recall what I said about the cocking lever coming unlatched; causing the compression chamber to move back during the firing sequence.  That's why it sounded like a .22 LR.

To ensure that the rifle hadn't blown a seal or succumbed to other damage that day I shot a soup can filled with water from 30 yards.  The pellet penetrated the other side leaving a thirty caliber exit hole.

Because I didn't have the chronograph I measured the drop from the thirty yard zero range at 40, 50 and 60 yards.  The pellet dropped about 1, 3 & 6 inches respectively.  Based on the amount of drop at those distances, my best estimate of muzzle velocity for the 10.5 grain pellet is approximately 780 FPS.

Much has been said about how heavy the rifle is.  Using my luggage scale the rifle weighs 10.8 lbs with the Vortex scope.  By comparison, my FWB 300S weighs 10.92 with an attached hand stop.  My Beeman R1 with Vortex scope weighs 10.26 pounds.

My best guess as to why the rifle seems so heavy is, well, because it is!  Seriously, it must seem to weigh so much more than some other air rifles is because of the barrel and cocking lever creating a massive moment-arm.  This, in turn, gives the person holding the rifle the impression of being disproportionately heavy.

[Steelontarget]

I attempted to adjust the trigger and when turning the screw for the 1st stage weight, I felt a little resistance and half of the screw head broke off (#3 in the diagram below).  A call was placed to Umarex this morning and they are sending me a couple of extra screws.  The good news is that the trigger pull is right where I want it.



I spent quite a bit of time with the rifle at the range.  It can shoot better than I can.  It was so much fun to shoot that it was really hard to put down.  It got quite a few curious looks.  Before they realized it was an air rifle, a few folks were wondering about the missing bolt.

I was able to hit some cheese balls at 27 yards about 90% of the time.  The paint balls at that distance were a little more challenging.

A variety of steel swingers were set up between 30 and 50 yards.  The smallest 30 yard spinner was about 3/4" diameter.  I was able to hit it about 99% of the time.  At the 50 yard line, I placed a 2 1/2" steel chicken spinner and hit it about 75% of the time.

Attached are a couple of groups that I shot at 30 yards.

Overall, I'd give the rifle 4 1/2 stars.  It would get 5 stars but for the broken trigger adjustment screw and the problem with the cocking arm dropping.  Once I used the velcro snubbers or shims or whatever you want to call them the rifle is a real pleasure to shoot.

[.]

I can't make up my mind whether I like German girls or Swedish girls more.  Then again, I had a girlfriend who was both Swedish and German.  Big mistake in breaking up with her.  Okay, I know everyone is thinking it.  So get it over with and call me an idiot for letting her go and marrying Lady MacBeth.

Being a half German and half Swedish woman myself, I can attest to the magnitude of your foolish mistake, as can a few less-than-savvy fellas in my personal history, lol..

We are what we are, the best of both worlds...

For those without personal experience, think Vulcan/Romulan half-breed, but with blonde hair, blue eyes, and lovely lines, and you'll get the idea..

:-) chickie

[Steelontarget]

I can't make up my mind whether I like German girls or Swedish girls more.  Then again, I had a girlfriend who was both Swedish and German.  Big mistake in breaking up with her.  Okay, I know everyone is thinking it.  So get it over with and call me an idiot for letting her go and marrying Lady MacBeth.

Being a half German and half Swedish woman myself, I can attest to the magnitude of your foolish mistake, as can a few less-than-savvy fellas in my personal history, lol..

We are what we are, the best of both worlds...

For those without personal experience, think Vulcan/Romulan half-breed, but with blonde hair, blue eyes, and lovely lines, and you'll get the idea..

:-) chickie

Rather than try to figure out what that would look like (because I don't watch Star Trek) I "googled it" and came up with this, which ain't bad:



On the other hand, I'm trying to get these images out of my head:

 

[.]

Bwahahaaa!!

I was thinkin' more along the lines of temperment/skills than actual facial features, lol..

You know, half super-civilized and half conqueror/barbarian, but both of the same original lineage...

Looks-wise, I think I have better bone structure than either Vulcans or Romulans, thank goodness!!

[Steelontarget]

Bwahahaaa!!

I was thinkin' more along the lines of temperment/skills than actual facial features, lol..

You know, half super-civilized and half conqueror/barbarian, but both of the same original lineage...

Looks-wise, I think I have better bone structure than either Vulcans or Romulans, thank goodness!!

That shows you how shallow my thinking is

[.]

Bwahahaaa!!

I was thinkin' more along the lines of temperment/skills than actual facial features, lol..

You know, half super-civilized and half conqueror/barbarian, but both of the same original lineage...

Looks-wise, I think I have better bone structure than either Vulcans or Romulans, thank goodness!!

That shows you how shallow my thinking is

My thinking can run very shallow at times, hun, no worries! It's a HUMAN thing, ha!