100 yards: Most accurate PCP?

[rintafile]

Yes I know. But Google translater is quite poor...Atleast when I tested on Flamish to Finnish. Makes me chuckle...

[keithd]

Yes I know. But Google translater is quite poor...Atleast when I tested on Flamish to Finnish. Makes me chuckle...

I see it is powered by google

[rkr]

In Netherlands those BR competitions are inside range.... So in my mind results are not compatible... But yes there is Lonestar represented. Here is some results..
http://100mairgun.nl/category/Wedstrijdresultaten.aspx

But because I can't  understand  Flemish language.... There was also other results...Don't know which are right. Sorry  Maybe in this forum is someone from Dutch so he/she can straight things

Indeed they shoot most of their comps indoors but since the talk in this thread is mostly about pellet shooters the results apply as there's not much difference in the BC of .25, .30 or .35 pellets. Although it seems that in the past two years or so RAW guns have found their place at the top of the Dutch score board as well. For off the shelf most accurate pellet gun that requires no tuning, RAW actually looks like a very promising candidate. There are results from open series, bigbore pellet shooters and bigbore bullet shooters. In open series BSAs and RAWs are on top. In big bore pellet series (.30 guns mostly) RAW and FX dominate. For bullet shooters results are more mixed but Beaumonts and Corsairs do rather well.

[TPL]

Yes I know. But Google translater is quite poor...Atleast when I tested on Flamish to Finnish. Makes me chuckle...

I always make translation from whatever language to English in GT. Then it can survive somehow. Finnish is too difficult for it.

In Dutch site you can choose language from upper corner and English is not perfect but quite understandable.

[anti-squirrel]

Here's another thought... if I personally was looking for a 100-yard gun, I'd want something relatively light with a wood stock.  The small group of guns I'd be interested in are the ones I mentioned previously- Cometa, SPA, and at the high end, a Mutant. 

Because I'm cheap, even if cost had no bearing.   I will eventually own a RAW, but that's probably gonna be a few years down the road. The only FX that interests me is their cheapest and only a single-shot.

[kbstingwing]

What, No Crossman Pumpers....     760.......
I once made a shot with an old Crossman 760 with a BB..... about 100 yards and hit a Bird perfectly in the head, the gun had bad seals so it leaked air and you had to pump it about 20 times to get any power out of it, I seen the bird and didn't even think I would come close to it, so I just pointed the gun in the air and pulled the trigger, we watched the BB in flight (it was so slow you could see it) as it made the huge arch across the sky and fell directly on the Birds head, the one in a million shot....... We could not believe that I hit it, so LUCK is also a major factor in long distance shooting too.   



Corrected my mistake..... crosman 760 not 780, getting old and can't remember my own name.......

[crosman999]

Usually a question like this results in the whole "Best gun is the one I'm shooting" lol I've seen some impressive groups from low end guns not even listed here, my experience is a gun will always be more accurate than I can shoot it. People post amazing groups that rarely can be duplicated, this years EBR may be much different than it's ever been....just a feeling. The way things are going 100 yards may no longer be impressive, modern PCPs are capable of much more.

[KnifeMaker]

What, No Crossman Pumpers....     780.......
I once made a shot with an old Crossman 780 with a BB..... about 100 yards and hit a Bird perfectly in the head, the gun had bad seals so it leaked air and you had to pump it about 20 times to get any power out of it, I seen the bird and didn't even think I would come close to it, so I just pointed the gun in the air and pulled the trigger, we watched the BB in flight (it was so slow you could see it) as it made the huge arch across the sky and fell directly on the Birds head, the one in a million shot....... We could not believe that I hit it, so LUCK is also a major factor in long distance shooting too.   

I think that is what is called the Golden BB. LOL!!!

Knife

[Mod90]

Question-if money were no object which PCP is most accurate at 100 yards?
Answer-the one that the shooter takes the time & effort to learn how it performs with its preferred ammo at 100 yards.

When it comes to long range shooting, practice & knowing your gun is everything, doesn't matter if you're shooting at a twelve inch gong or a marble, a 177 hatsan or .30 fx. Without consistency & practice, might as well be chucking rocks over your shoulder at the target.

[Pappy]

Wow, lots of interesting posts on this subject.  Lots of good points made as to what do you want to do with the rifle, hunt, plink, or compete ... practice practice practice, absolutely ... what can you afford, what denotes a "good rifle" ... quality, craftsmanship, repeatability ... all good points.  There has to be a line drawn somewhere ... and specifics have to be laid out.  Are you looking for a rifle that you can mod to death, and you love to tinker ... maybe the Marauder is the "best" pcp for you ... but is it a great pcp out of the box?  You can hunt with a $500 pcp very well, but is it as good as a hunting rifle that costs $1000, like a Daystate Regal or BSA R10 ... absolutely not!  Good point made about Ted's FX Impact and the barrel was probably some custom thing from FX.  We all need to learn how to sift through the hype from the manufacturers.  And scopes, good God, people here post that their CenterPoint or other Walmart scope is "good".  For what?  In rifles and glass, quality, craftsmanship, dependability, repeatability, accuracy, and service all costs money ... you almost always get what you pay for.  I'll stop now before I go into a rant. 

Pappy

[blackdiesel]

I think that if you are using pellets, once you get out to 100 + yards, pellets and environment have more effect on accuracy than the gun you are shooting.  PCP technology is well beyond pellet technology at the time and until it catches up I don't think there will be a PCP that will shoot consistent 100 yards groups as compared to 50 yard groups.  There are so many examples, two have been mentioned in this thread.  The $180 Chief that matched the $2200 RAW, Matt Dubber's results when he shot the Crown at 100 meters.  He showed all those very tight 50 yard groups but when he shot in the wind at 100 yards it was no different than any other PCP.  In my own experience, I shoot the same sized groups with my Sumatras as I shoot with my RAW.   So pick a decent gun and practice a lot and you will get more good groups at 100 yards than bad groups.   

[Mod90]

maybe the Marauder is the "best" pcp for you ... but is it a great pcp out of the box?  You can hunt with a $500 pcp very well, but is it as good as a hunting rifle that costs $1000, like a Daystate Regal or BSA R10 ... absolutely not! 

gotta disagree with this a bit.
in a hunting scenario, a gun simply must be able to put the pellet where it will effectively kill the game with enough force to do so. If a $500 pcp can accurately hit what it's aimed at 10/10 I see no reason to think it's not just as good a hunting tool as a $1000 one or even a $1500 PCP. The rabbit or squirrel doesn't care what gun the pellet came out of, & once the end result is the same with any of them one is equally as good as the other afaic.

[Pappy]

maybe the Marauder is the "best" pcp for you ... but is it a great pcp out of the box?  You can hunt with a $500 pcp very well, but is it as good as a hunting rifle that costs $1000, like a Daystate Regal or BSA R10 ... absolutely not! 

gotta disagree with this a bit.
in a hunting scenario, a gun simply must be able to put the pellet where it will effectively kill the game with enough force to do so. If a $500 pcp can accurately hit what it's aimed at 10/10 I see no reason to think it's not just as good a hunting tool as a $1000 one or even a $1500 PCP. The rabbit or squirrel doesn't care what gun the pellet came out of, & once the end result is the same with any of them one is equally as good as the other afaic.

Duly noted!    I guess I just find it hard to believe that an "out of the box" $500 PCP will consistently place a humane kill shot on the prey at 100 yards, as well as the $1000 or more PCP will.  I started with a springer Gamo Whisper something or another .177, moved up to the TX .177.  No comparison out of the box, TX was much superior to the Gamo in sooooo many ways.  I'm afraid this thread is like arguing Religion or Politics. 

Pappy

[Mod90]

Not really Allan
It's just that at the end of the day, it's about what can do what well.
Now, the higher end guns may have a more consistent shot string otb than the cheaper one & that will aid in the accuracy dept., but with a little tlc & some small change the cheaper one's string can be made just as flat. It's my observation that the cheaper guns come with stock settings to be as powerful as they can, while the more expensive ones tend to be set up for a long even string of shots, whether by means of down tuning, using balanced valves or regulating them at the factory.

There's no real limitation that would make a regulated .177 Mrod shooting it's preferred pellet at 700 fps any less accurate at 20 yards than an AA S510 at a similar power level and distance. When comparing oranges with oranges, when it all boils down, they're all good for what they are.

[Booger]

Not really Allan
It's just that at the end of the day, it's about what can do what well.
Now, the higher end guns may have a more consistent shot string otb than the cheaper one & that will aid in the accuracy dept., but with a little tlc & some small change the cheaper one's string can be made just as flat. It's my observation that the cheaper guns come with stock settings to be as powerful as they can, while the more expensive ones tend to be set up for a long even string of shots, whether by means of down tuning, using balanced valves or regulating them at the factory.

There's no real limitation that would make a regulated .177 Mrod shooting it's preferred pellet at 700 fps any less accurate at 20 yards than an AA S510 at a similar power level and distance. When comparing oranges with oranges, when it all boils down, they're all good for what they are.

Another point: Some guns like you and some guns you like. I had a Galatian that was very accurate, but I hated the gun and sold her. I had an MROD that I really liked, but would not shoot accurate for me, I sold her and she is very accurate for the new owner.

It is not just the pellet for the gun, but also the gun for the owner.

[anti-squirrel]

Not really Allan
It's just that at the end of the day, it's about what can do what well.
Now, the higher end guns may have a more consistent shot string otb than the cheaper one & that will aid in the accuracy dept., but with a little tlc & some small change the cheaper one's string can be made just as flat. It's my observation that the cheaper guns come with stock settings to be as powerful as they can, while the more expensive ones tend to be set up for a long even string of shots, whether by means of down tuning, using balanced valves or regulating them at the factory.

There's no real limitation that would make a regulated .177 Mrod shooting it's preferred pellet at 700 fps any less accurate at 20 yards than an AA S510 at a similar power level and distance. When comparing oranges with oranges, when it all boils down, they're all good for what they are.

Another point: Some guns like you and some guns you like. I had a Galatian that was very accurate, but I hated the gun and sold her. I had an MROD that I really liked, but would not shoot accurate for me, I sold her and she is very accurate for the new owner.

It is not just the pellet for the gun, but also the gun for the owner.

So much truth in this statement.  Seen this in springers, CO2 guns, and PCPs.  The Optimus I gave to a friend just wouldn't shoot at my desires.  In the current owner's hands, it's a laser, and has a few hundred squirrels claimed over 3 years.

He's a far better pistol shot, but I can run circles around him with my PP700, and he almost as much trigger time with it as me (and he sighted it in!). 

One thing Norman (BlackDiesel) mentioned that really should be heeded- the Sumatra...  as much as like so many other airguns, the Sumatra is kind of in a class by itself.  Relatively compact incredible powerhouse for a relatively low price, and it seems that everybody that has owned one claims it is among their favorites... and that it is not very pellet picky once you tame the power.  But make no mistake, they are hunting machines first and foremost.  Is it as good a 100-meter gun as some of the others that have been mentioned?  Probably not... But once an owner learns the idiosyncrasies and gains proficiency, it is one gun that should not be underestimated.  I know I'll be buying one within the next 18 months (and before I shell out the money on a Mutant).

[kbstingwing]

I think that is true about the gun and the owner, fit and comfort with your gun can be misleading if you don't have the proper technique the gun requires to shoot it properly, like a lot of the springers, I myself am not a springer person, get lousy groups with them, on the other hand with pumpers and PCP's I can nail a bottle cap at 50 yards with no problem, But My .22 Mrod.... Everybody knows the issues with this barrel..... at 10 yards had over 3" groups and was all over the place, put a new LW barrel in it and now it's as accurate as my Beeman/Weihrauch HW 100, which I must say is phenomenally accurate out of the box and I should add it to the list of guns, but the Mrod has no other mods to it and can be done at a cheaper price..... until you go "MOD CRAZY"..... Now your cheap Mrod is 2 times the cost of a high end out of the box gun, like I said previously it doesn't matter what gun you buy, if the gun and the pellet are consistent and you know how to read the terrain (wind / distance other factors) than you will have a winning combination.

and the Sumatra is a good gun, I love mine, and it is quite accurate with all sorts of pellets.

[AlanMcD]

I will agree that the biggest variable of all (apart from the shooter) is the barrel, and thus due in large part to variability in barrels,  many simple “lower end” guns will do amazingly well.  But there is much to be gained from higher end guns in the basic design /materials of the gun.

I say this from direct experience – my first foray into PCPs was with a Gen 1 .22 Marauder and it shot pretty well as stock.  But I went on a quest to turn it into a “one-holer”, and it did get close it but always took a lot of great deal of care to shoot consistently sub MOA out to 50 yards and a bit beyond that (as far as I can shoot on my property), often with sorted pellets.  By that point, it had been rebarreled with both LW and Marmot Militia HF barrels (both are great; I just decided to try both), wore a bedded Boyd’s stock, was regulated with a custom valves and light weight hammers – in short a long way from stock (the main tube, trigger group, and Breech related components were about all that were “stock”, but even most of those had been improved in some way) .

I was very happy with it after all the mods, but wanted to see what the high end guns were all about, so I bought a Daystate Air Ranger in .22 (a 50 FPE unit).  After experiencing the Daystate – which shoots amazingly well with absolute ease – I am now convinced that the basic design and material selection that Daystate made is a huge element of that difference (at least when used as in single shot mode without the magazines - accuracy suffers with the mags).

The biggest area that I can point to is the breech block and barrel mount; it is worlds ahead of the Marauder -  and probably costs a boatload more too!  It is larger (thus has more metal and is stiffer), made from a titanium alloy (thus stiffer yet), and has six attachments to the main tube instead of the Marauder’s 4 attachment points (3 on the Gen 1) including two under the mag, which stiffens the breech block at the weakest point.  And then the barrel is from wider stock than the Marauder, and mounts with a full size through hole with much less slop (still held in place with two grub screws though).  The bottom line is that the Daystate barrel is significantly more rigid than the Marauder (even with a 0.63” LW barrel installed) and thus has both a much higher resonant and frequency and much less susceptibility to any impact of harmonics on the pellet.

The Daystate just keeps stacking pellets shot after shot, and I could not get the Marauder anywhere close to that until I regulated it, as changes in the shot cycle impacted harmonics and thus caused the POI to shift a noticeable amount (that is why I regulated it).  To this day the Daystate (unregulated) outshoots the regulated and optimally tuned Marauder at pretty much any level of tune, and over far more types of pellets.

So my bottom line contribution is that the “pedigree” of the gun will have a large impact on things, if only through the odds of getting the best out of whatever the barrel can deliver.

[Marc In Iowa]

To this day the Daystate (unregulated) outshoots the regulated and optimally tuned Marauder at pretty much any level of tune, and over far more types of pellets.

So my bottom line contribution is that the “pedigree” of the gun will have a large impact on things, if only through the odds of getting the best out of whatever the barrel can deliver.

It reminds me of a Ted's Holdover review of a Benjamin Discovery $500 package he reviews.


He gives the Discovery a good review and then asks "But can the $500 Discovery keep up with these?" ... referring to a FX Bobcat or Daystate Airwolf; both at $3300+ for rifle, scopes and mods. His answer "I sure hope not! Otherwise those folks buying high end PCPs are wasting their money!"

I used to sell expensive Hi-Fi rigs along with more modestly priced systems. I used to tell my customers "You do have to pay to get the best but you can also overpay and not get the best, so ... try to do your homework."

[Back_Roads]

Also Ted gave the Discovery away when he was done playing with it !