Beeman P3 vs P17

[Theo98]

I've read about the construction and QC differences between the MIC P17 and the German Weihrauch P3. Machined vs stamped parts, higher quality barrels, better fit & finish and out-of-the-box lighter trigger pull seems pluses going for the much more expensive P3. Other than possibly better reliability, will the P3 out-shoot (better accuracy and repeat-ability) a good-working-order P17 ( such as MINE )?

Many P3 owners claim yes, it is worth 7X the cost (actual selling prices) of the P17. However, I haven't read any justifications for the additional cost due to "better accuracy" in the P3! Just curious if the P3 might be -Worth- pursuing as a future purchase as a more accurate 10m pistol?

Your opinions\experiences are appreciated!

Ted

[StevenG]

Just to throw another wrinkle in, Stalwart sells tuned versions of the p17, or p3, upgraded orings, deburred parts, nicer trigger feel, etc.

Both my stock p17 and the stalwart built p25, which is a .25, are single ragged hole guns at 10m. Never shot a p3, but I have considered buying one.

I will say that I am having Stalwart build a P22.

For cost effectiveness nothing is going to beat a stock p17. It's a hobby so cost effectiveness is not a major concern for me.

[bandg]

I also don't have any experience with a P3 but I can't see how they would outperform the P17 for accuracy as mine all produce tiny groups with almost anything I put through them.   The construction might be better and I guess they might last longer but who knows?

[WyoMan]

Only you can answer that question, Ted.
I have both and I'm glad I have both. I believe the barrels of both are the same - but I'm not real sure. I have not experienced much difference in accuracy.
The biggest difference for me was the trigger. The HW 40 (P3) trigger feels like turning a precision dial. The P17, not so much. Some of the other things you mentioned are apparent as well...

Wyo

[Yogi]

Give the Diana LP8 a look.  In the right hands it will shoot as well as all the others.

-Y

[wjjones]

I have both, the P17 and HW40 (P3).  These are my observations with MY guns; you may have a different experience:

The "P3" is definitely a nicer piece--it has a way nicer fit and finish, and the trigger action is perfect.  I bought it because I was having the very common trigger issues with the P17s I owned.

The trigger on my first P17 went south within 100 shots.  I tinkered with it using info online and it held up a few more shots before crapping out again.  I returned it and got another one.  The second one started doing the same thing, so I tinkered with this one, too, and so far it's held up for a thousand rounds or so.  The trigger is still not nearly as good as with my HW40. 

They are both equally accurate and they can easily shoot grasshoppers at 5-7 yards.  My P17 shoots a bit faster for some reason, but it is also a bit harder to cock than my HW40.  A WORKING P17 is a great shooter, especially for the price.  If I knew it would hold up forever, I'd sell the HW40.  One thing about the P17 is I don't worry leaving it on a bench in the garage for days--with the HW40 I'm more careful how I handle and store it.

[Theo98]

Just to throw another wrinkle in, Stalwart sells tuned versions of the p17, or p3, upgraded orings, deburred parts, nicer trigger feel, etc.

Both my stock p17 and the stalwart built p25, which is a .25, are single ragged hole guns at 10m. Never shot a p3, but I have considered buying one.

I will say that I am having Stalwart build a P22.

For cost effectiveness nothing is going to beat a stock p17. It's a hobby so cost effectiveness is not a major concern for me.

Thanks for the info, Steven!

Stalwart Arms states they're not competitively priced with the P3 and wouldn't confirm that the S1\S2 customs would be more accurate...suggested I try the P3 first!

I'll keep looking out for a good used unit or a sale on a new P3. For now, my P17 still shoots better than I can!

Ted 

[Theo98]

Only you can answer that question, Ted.
I have both and I'm glad I have both. I believe the barrels of both are the same - but I'm not real sure. I have not experienced much difference in accuracy.
The biggest difference for me was the trigger. The HW 40 (P3) trigger feels like turning a precision dial. The P17, not so much. Some of the other things you mentioned are apparent as well...Wyo

Gary,

I've got my P17 trigger very close to optimum...just need to get the pre-travel creep\smoothness reduced from 1\4" to 1\8". The trigger's 15oz crisp and surprising break is as low as I want to go!

Still, the P3 \ HW40 should be even smoother and more precise...will have to get one in the future to try!

Thanks for sharing,

Ted

[Theo98]

I have both, the P17 and HW40 (P3).  These are my observations with MY guns; you may have a different experience:

The "P3" is definitely a nicer piece--it has a way nicer fit and finish, and the trigger action is perfect.  I bought it because I was having the very common trigger issues with the P17s I owned.

The trigger on my first P17 went south within 100 shots.  I tinkered with it using info online and it held up a few more shots before crapping out again.  I returned it and got another one.  The second one started doing the same thing, so I tinkered with this one, too, and so far it's held up for a thousand rounds or so.  The trigger is still not nearly as good as with my HW40. 

They are both equally accurate and they can easily shoot grasshoppers at 5-7 yards.  My P17 shoots a bit faster for some reason, but it is also a bit harder to cock than my HW40.  A WORKING P17 is a great shooter, especially for the price.  If I knew it would hold up forever, I'd sell the HW40.  One thing about the P17 is I don't worry leaving it on a bench in the garage for days--with the HW40 I'm more careful how I handle and store it.

Bill,

Agree, "A WORKING P17 is a great shooter, especially for the price"!

With 500+ leads through my P17, so far, it's working well and very accurate. Performed an easy and simple trigger mod, see HERE. I already have 2 complete o-ring sets for immediate replacement when things go south...thus, they probably never will! 

I almost "pulled the trigger" yesterday evening on a good used P3 on the bay, but at 75% $ of a new one and the fact my P17 can shoot same hole groupings (I just can't), I'm somewhat hesitant to take that step. I'd probably be the same, put my P17 through h... and baby the P3.   

From what I gather with above members inputs to my posted questions, P17 \ P3 Accuracy is either Very Close or Equal between the two pistols. To date, believe that's going to be "good enough for me"!

Appreciate your comments and input,

Ted 

[bsagunner]

Would buying P3 trigger parts and installing them on the P17 help in giving it a better trigger? I am toying with the idea. Chambers in the U.K. has the parts. I have also ordered the Cocking Aid from Dan. It would cost way more than the gun cost me by the time it gets to me. That's one of the problems with hobbies lol!

[wjjones]

Would buying P3 trigger parts and installing them on the P17 help in giving it a better trigger? I am toying with the idea. Chambers in the U.K. has the parts. I have also ordered the Cocking Aid from Dan. It would cost way more than the gun cost me by the time it gets to me. That's one of the problems with hobbies lol!

The P17 parts are not that different from P3 parts, actually. Before buying new parts, I would try some of the fixes posted here and elsewhere on the 'net.  Also, you may be able to simply adjust most of the creep out of the trigger using the adjustment screw.   

[Grover]

Bill, if I'd have known you were up at midnight posting, I would have called you the following morning at 5 a.m.

P.S.  I bought a fat bike.

[wjjones]

Bill, if I'd have known you were up at midnight posting, I would have called you the following morning at 5 a.m.

P.S.  I bought a fat bike.

Me, midnight?  I can't stay up past 9!  So, where have you been the past couple months?  Your expertise has been missed.

[Grover]

Bill, if I'd have known you were up at midnight posting, I would have called you the following morning at 5 a.m.

P.S.  I bought a fat bike.

Me, midnight?  I can't stay up past 9!  So, where have you been the past couple months?  Your expertise has been missed.

Expertise?  PSSSSHHHT.   I learned from you (captian holdover ) and others here  Only thing left over 12 pounds is the AZ Slammer.

I've been working hard to buy said bicycle.

[Yogi]

Welcome back Grover!

-Y

[Grover]

At $35, a guy could buy 2 and shoot the one that's best.  I don't shoot mine a lot,  but it's held up fine for about a year now.

Thanks yogi

[Acapulco]

I own the p17...its accurate and cheap....but for some reason its not pleasant to shoot. I'll grab my daisy 7 series or 65 even my rohm before I dust off the p17.

Just sayin

[1959 Moggy]

Hi,folks...I have had both since 2005,and can tell you that there is no difference in performance. The Chinese gun is a licenced copy,not just some knock-off,and it has the same LW barrel as the German unit. There is one cosmetic difference...The Chinese gun's trigger and overlever release catch are shinier...and that's it.      Bryan

[avator]

I sent a couple P-17 out to Eric at Stalwart Arms and he did amazing things with them. We like them so much that I'm not even interested in anything that shoots better... at any price.
They were fun guns right out of the blister packs. Now they are way beyond fun.

[Techie]

I bought three P3's when they first came out and before the P17 existed.  I would not even consider the P3 now that the P17 exists for a fraction of the price.