RWS 350 Mag .177 Best pellet

[Rattosaurus]

I ordered a Diana/Rws 350 Magnum from Airgunsofarizona.  It came in yesterday, beautiful but minus the pellets.  I had ordered the only pellet I could find that was recommended by a notable reviewer.  It was recommended for a a slightly different model. (BBpelltpratire, JSB Heavy)

I'm using what pellets I have to break it in it isn't showing any promise.

Any recommendations?

[dtdtdtdt]

This a very complicated question.  There is no one "best" pellet that you can choose reliably.  I did tests with a large number of pellets both lead and non-lead in my RWS 54 and my FWB 300.  The RWS 54 is in the same power category  as the RWS 350 but has differences in the recoil control mechanism. 

My personal prejudices and extensive testing lead me to say:

1.  Choose a LEAD pellet in the 10gr weight range that will give a velocity in the 800-900f/s range in a .177 rifle. They penetrate 3/4" of soft pine and bulge the back of a 3/4" marine plywood.  Full penetration on every critter shot thus far  400 Chipmunks and a few birds!!
2.  AVOID any pellet that is near or above the speed of sound ( approximately 1150f/s)  Don't buy into the 1400f/s claims of some manufacturers - they are less than helpful.
3.  AVOID NON-LEAD pellets as they are harder than lead pellets and sometimes have trouble sealing and can be inconsistent in performance.  Unless there are environmental requirements or laws that require you to do so.
4. AVOID Plastic - Metal composite pellets.  The composite pellets can BURN the plastic in the barrel leaving a black residue in the bore that is hard to remove and may not be good for a delicate constitutions.  They generally are less accurate than the boring old lead ones.
5. H&N pellets have done well in my testing.  They seem to be very consistent in quality and construction. 
6. There are sampler kits available that have a selection of pellets (some from a single manufacturer (like H&N and RWS.) One on-line marketer (straight shooters.com) prepares and sells sample kits of 25 each of up to 18 different pellets for your testing pleasure.
7. Some find that round or dome headed pellets are more accurate and stable out to 50yds or so.  Wad-cutter and Hollow points don't seem to do as well in longer range shooting.

All that being said:  My RWS 54 prefers Beeman Kodiak Match 10.6gr pellets.  Consistently group less than .35" at 25yds - boringly so.  I recently shot 0.9 and 1.1"  5 shot groups at 50yds in real life conditions of pesky crosswinds.  At 100yds the group was about 5." with a drop of 44inches!!!

Look at the note referenced below.  There is a PDF of over 100 tests with different pellets with both rifles.  It is NOT an exhaustive test as there are more pellets available than you can imagine.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1217098#msg1217098

These are results at 50&n 100yds.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=124648.msg1267030#msg1267030

Have fun!!

[Roadworthy]

Dave has some good information.  I've never shot a 350 but I think it has just a tad more power than my 48.

My 48 seems to like JSB Exact in 8.44 and H&N Sniper Mediums.  It's not too bad with H&N FTT in 4.52.  Although my older Dianas like the RWS Super Domes, the 48 doesn't like them at all. 

In short, the gun gets to pick the pellet, though I suspect the 350 is a bit much for .177 - even though that's what my 48 is.

[Rattosaurus]

Thanks DT,  That was fast, you responded before the stirfry was out of the pan.  (In this case we can leave the Supersonic buffeting lesson out, I've already been to that school.


I should add that my RWS is far from broken in, less then a half a tin of pellets through it.  However, it doesn't seem to like any of the pellets that I have.  My Hatsan 100x doesn't like the H@N Barracudas and the 350 mag, thus far, seems to be agreeing with that.  I was hopeful that it would like the H@N Barracuda Hunter's but it doesn't.   As usual, the Gamo 10.? pellets look really pretty and expensive in the tin but all over the place. Like you, I'm using a 50ft target and expect a high end air rifle to be able to qualify for any local shooting match.

The reviewer recommended the JSB Heavy, he had found it best for "ALL RWS RIFLES."
Add Beeman Kodiak match 10.6 to the list.



Oh, BTW.  Hunting raccoons and pigs with an air rifle is legal in The State of Florida .... and yes, I have plenty of both.  (In this country an air rifle should have enough power to make an exit wound.)

[dtdtdtdt]

I have a real problem with GAMO and its claims for both its pellets and rifles  I have two friends who really really got suckered in when they bought them.  If you look through the list, most didn't fare well in my tests.

Remember high power rifles can have real hold sensitivity issues.  Hence my choice of the 54.

What kind of stir fry?  Alligator or Burmese Python?

[Yogi]

Try and find a pellet that needs just a little nudge to fit flush.  Did you scrub the barrel?  Is the leade at an angle?  Push a pellet through with a rod and feel for the tight and smooth parts.  Is there a nic near the muzzle?

Lots to do...

-Y

[Rattosaurus]

Took me a while to find the PDF you mentioned.  It appears at the bottom of the post.

I'm trying to avoid taking this one apart.  It seems every rifle that I come by, brand new or otherwise, needs to be taken apart...needs to be recrowned, needs the barrel lapped, needs the trigger honed and polished...and they all a need all of that sticky grease gotten out of there before it dries up into glue.

I shot about a hundred more pellets through it this morning, it's still chucking the barracudas into about a silver dollar at 50ft, which is a usable hunting gun, but hardly a good one.  (My local Walmart doesn't stock the Crosman 10.5gr, so, I'm pretty much stuck with mail order.)   Since I get stuck for over $10sh, every place I go, your recommendations are useful.  When I look down the barrel between shots, I can still see a brown haze of burnt grease.

Airgunsofarizona marked the pellets as "backorder".  I e-mailed, like ever business school PHD I do buisness with nowadays, "backorder" seems to mean they will hold on to my credit card number and use it to fix their bookkeeping.  Which, I guess means I should email them to cancel the order...(I really enjoy playing poker with the other players hand in my pocket at all times.)....which means, that three months from now I will be getting a notification from the bank that they used it anyhow.


Oh, and, amazingly enough, alligators are VERY protected species in Florida as well as sharks.  The Florida game laws are written like a boobie trap....their regulations page is titled in bolt print what species you are allowed to take, then a bunch of misc fine print then a long list of different species OF THE ANIMALS YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE.  (I really wanted to go shark hunting with a spot light at night, with my crossbow....nope, they decided that we might run out of sharks.)   

Stirfry?   Well, I manged not to burn the rice this time...Whatever they have marked down at the local Gulf Of Mexico, they have convenient outlets everywhere.  (Think I'll grease the crossbow up.)

[Yogi]

Joe,

Next vacation go snakehead hunting on the Potomac.
It is a terribly invasive species that deserves to be eradicated.

Bring your crossbow, it is a little like spear fishing above the water...

-Y

[packard8]

I also just received my AoA D350/.177. I'm breaking it in with my go to pellet, CPM 10.5gr in the brown box. Getting around 920 FPS avg for +/- 20 FPE. Just shooting with the iron sights so far (these are tricky sights, hard to get a good sight picture for me).  Happy with this pellet so far, will try others soon. IMHO, a 9 or 10gr pellet is about the minimum for this rifle.

[dtdtdtdt]

I really recommend the STRAIGHTSHOOTERS.COM sampler pack.  Craig is very knowledgeable and has a host of information on his site about the rifles, pellets, tests of many many pellets for velocity and energy.  Look up your 350 and find the OUR TAKE article that gives information on their test results without the advertising blather that often is found in reviews.  He also has a series of useful articles about air rifle subjects - again no BS.   I just read their comments on the 350.  Says it is the most powerful .177 with energies in the 21-22fpe range.  Says it is a good hunting choice but not so good as a target gun.  They saw velocities of near 1100f/s with some pellets.  This may limit accuracy a bit.  Said it was best with heavier pellets.  Could have recoil and hold issues.  Suggest you give that article a good read!  Lots of pellets tested. 

For about $25 plus shipping you can get a bunch of different pellets to test without a huge investment.  His little box has either 18 or 24 cubbies chock full of different manufacturer pellets.  Current pack has a couple Green (no lead) pellets at around 6 gr with the top weight being around 11 (if my memory hasn't failed me yet!) Several in the 10-11 range that should put you around 900f/s.  Saves a bunch and guessing at which pretty box you should buy.  MY personal prejudice is NO GAMO anything!!!  I spent over $200 for non-lead pellets because they weren't available in sampler packs. Some were as much as $15/hundred.  Over the years I probably have spent $400 or so on pellets - most of which are serving as a bookend in my workshop.

Some suggested cleaning the bore as they come pretty gunked up sometimes.  AMEN!!!  a .17 caliber rod and some bronze or brass brushes would be helpful too.  I cleaned mine when I got it and then after the non=lead tests over 6 years later with a few thousand pellets in between.  the first cleaning was probably unnecessary as I bought it used.  Accuracy has been good all along. 

Pellet consistency in the box is sometimes not too good too.  That can be a bugger also.  I went through the exercise of weighing and measuring but found I am not good enough to be that sophisticated. 

Cheers

[Yogi]

Joe,

I bet you have a burr in the rifling.   Wouldn't take much to run a brass brush down the barrel 20 times or so.   Preferably With JB-non embedding bore paste.

You do not even need to take the stock off.....

-Y

[dtdtdtdt]

A couple more thoughts on pellets for your 350 Mag. 

I forgot to mention in my discourse on pellet selection that I have not had much success with the copper coated "Gold" style pellets.  They feel harder to the pinch test and when directly compared to their lead only counterpart seem to perform more poorly.

Another to try to take advantage of your high power rifle is the H&N Rabbit Magnum.  It weighs nearly 16 grains and is designed for hunting.  It looks very much like a somewhat smaller 22 short bullet.  My RWS 54 didn't work well with it because if may have been too long for the chamber and the 17fpe of my 54 wasn't quite enough for it.  I only had a few pellets (25 or so) so didn't get to really test it. 

The JSB Monster at 13+GR might be another choice to look at.  Straightshooters show a mv of about 800f/s for that heavy pellet.

It might be a choice for your more powerful rifle.  It should do quite well in the wind but might be a bit slower.

Cheers

[Rattosaurus]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, that's what we came her to do.  (Crosman 10.5 added by Packad8, who's gun is still smoking from all of that winding up of the mainspring.  You may find the fix of the irons lest expensive on Amazon as a Williams Dovetale peep, a peep tends to act as a lens...the different sight blade set, I already asked at AOA, they ran me around and promised the world and then forgot what they were doing.  Wierauch used the same globe sight, but dont toss that rear sight out, it's an extinct species that improved on the previous inferior Dinosaur.)
Somebody for AirgunsOfArizona may be reading our stuff because they emailed me back...offering a free tin of pellets for my trouble(usually I'll get a bill for it and the additional shipping anyhow.) but, I will add that the rifle is still on sale for $199 + their outrageous shipping $30...and I should add...


HOW IMPORTANT A THE CORRECT BALANCE IS TO A SPRING GUN!    I took the test scope off my Cometa and all the pellets suddenly decided that 3/4" was good enough and then I mounted the scope on the RWS 350 magnum and it suddenly chopped a 3/8 hole with four Barrcudas in my 50ft target with one flyer, and inch out of the group...and then...since my Scope was made in China by Chineese people working for the Turkish people the one flyer was attributed to the chincy scope mount flying off the gun...sooo....it's does NEED a scope, but it need it for the weight of the scope.  The only way to get that thing, or any magnum springer to recoil in a strait line, is to add a counterweight to the top of the gun, which could be a brick that was made in Czechoslovakia by Korean people...

I'll let you guys know when I have better info.  Thanks again.   
Oh, no fishing today..had company stop by,then the tide came in.  Don't these people understand anything about the importance of fishing with 185lb cams?

[dtdtdtdt]

Don't mess around with the mounts that everyone spends tinkering with.  Order a RWS droop compensated single piece lock down mount and don't look back.  Had one on my 54 since day one.  Scope has never moved or done anything bad...  I have two, one in 30mm and the other in 1".  Both are great. 

Hector Medina - an RWS super expert! -  recently put a long paragraph on this site (search on his posts) about how to install a scope mount so it won't do anything but hold the scope in the same place forever.  I am in awe of his methods!  He competes at the highest levels in field target with an RWS54.  His thoughts translate well to any air rifle!!  He uses the RWS ZR base that recoils and returns to zero.  They help keep your scope from breaking.  He modifies them so they are super precise.  Check out his blog - google- Hector Medina.  He also hangs out on this site but recently moved and may be less active right now. 

I had a relatively inexpensive used RWS 3-12x scope on mine for 6 years I and I don't know how long it was in use before that.  It finally got a loose lens illness last year so I replaced it with a Hawke (see particulars in my signature.)

Final by the way:  I have read a lot of comments about AOA in the past 7-8 years - not many highly positive. Knowledge level not what you would hope, sending refurbished rifles as new, etc.  I have no personal experience with them.  I use Pyramyd or Straightshooters (first choice) for most of my on-line stuff.  Occasionally Midway when they happen to have something I can use. 

[packard8]

Final by the way:  I have read a lot of comments about AOA in the past 7-8 years - not many highly positive. Knowledge level not what you would hope, sending refurbished rifles as new, etc.  I have no personal experience with them.  I use Pyramyd or Straightshooters (first choice) for most of my on-line stuff.  Occasionally Midway when they happen to have something I can use.

This is the forth rifle I've bought from AoA. The first was an HW95 that arrived with a dent in the stock. Looked like it came from the factory that way as it was under the finish. I called AoA and they had a replacement on the way that same day, plus a prepaid shipping label for the return. Most places would wait for receipt of the original, AoA trusted me and shipped the replacement right out. They even called the next week to confirm that the replacement was OK. First rate service in my book.

[dtdtdtdt]

I reported what I have seen reported by others.

If your experience is great then great!  One more to the good side.

AS I said, I haven't used them personally. 

Dave

[Rattosaurus]

Well, I did figure that Gatewaytoairguns needed this post when I put it up.

For one thing "magnum spring guns" got their BAD reputation from the RWS 350 and that is part of the reason why I wanted one.  In the day before Beeman decided that their catalog was too pretty to be giving away for free....the general consensus of the most powerful gun in the book was,  "Beautiful gun but impossible to shoot correctly.",  "Beautiful gun but impossible to get the pellet to work." with the occasional "Well, I can shoot it."  and for the most part.....if everybody stopped quoting catalog salesmen long enough for them to realize that they were quoting catalog salesmen....you could buy a really nice center fire rifle for that kind of money and not have the problems with buying parts and ammunition from Europe.

So, here is my early conclusion (Scope is still broke, so I havn't actually tested this out).  I grew up about firteen miles from the Remington Ilion plant, so I had a few teachers:

  The terms, "Target gun" and "Match grade" tend to get abused a lot.  Without abusing the terminology any competitive match grade target rifle has be able to both pass the inspection process as well have the capacity to actually win.  Any correctly made beginner's competition rifle will need to have the center of the barrel bore located within a half an inch of the rifles central moment and any such rifle should have the capacity of having its point of central moment modified to fit the shooter.    That is quoting one of my teachers from long ago, he was talking about Rimfire rifle.

So, one thing the RWS 350 needs is way to attach a sling...other than that, the "problem with the Magnum springer" becomes pretty obvious.  "Central Moment" is a term used in both physics and ballistics and what it means is that I took the RWS 350 Magnum, laid it down on a table and tried to balance it on a rubber handled screwdriver....then I took the "Strait line drawn down the rifle's bore and replace it with "a strait line drawn down the rifles piston" and what happens is that my 3x9x40mmAO scope is too light for the rifle.  (the same scope is pretty much the perfect weight for the Cometa) 

Now, assuming we have all watched the reviews of the RWS 350 magnum, the catalog salesman shows up for work, again....and reviews the gun with a super high scope mount  and then recommends another...but overall I think this forum is probably the only fix that will work, nobody ever could afford a gunsmith that was that good...

Aigunsofarazona still hasn't made up my mind of what to do about them, but I will be looking for a much heavier 50mm scope and STEEL rings....only because a) I'm a poor guy and b) the correct fix of raising both iron sights another inch and a half above the barrel and recutting the stock was RWS' job and they didn't show up for the shooting match.  And well, if their bb gun salesman thinks I really want to spend any more of my time on him, I'll leave the BB gun in the box and fix my lawnmower instead.



More importantly this post is as titled and I'm sure it will me needing more and more readers:::   Still looking for pellet recommendations and criticisms for the .177 RWS/Diana 350 Magnum.

[dtdtdtdt]

To add to your critique  of the design of most air rifles,  my pet peeve is the so-called droop.  As you note, for the price of these guns, one thinks that RWS and other "high" quality air rifles could made a barrel that lines up with the receiver. I don't shoot break-barrels because of that. I been told straight-faced that air rifles are such a small part of the business that they can't afford to do this!  BS,  I have $50 powder rifles that manage to do it very easily - as do your friends from Remington for much less expensive rifles.  And yes, I know about the methods of barrel straightening used in firearms.

A second issue with break barrels - you use the barrel to cock it by bending it down!!  Eventually, there must be some permanent bend left in the barrel.  Apparently not much as zillions of pellets have been shot through them and they have been cocked zillions of times with no one regularly reporting damage.   

My personal opinion is that most droop is caused by the very short ranges and the large scopes used. As noted, I have a droop corrected base on my 54 now.  However, when testing other bases - not droop corrected - I didn't see much difference in the scope settings.

Many shooters spend huge amounts of effort trying to get the rifles to line up with their sights (scopes) to the extent that some bend the barrels to accomplish that.  More power to them, it that is what is needed to get the rifle to shoot to the desired point of impact. 

Air gunners mount BIG scopes that are difficult to focus at the short distances that they need, and sit so high above the bore that zeroing to give a decent POINT BLANK zone is nearly impossible.  They use the adjustable objective / turret parallax as both a focus and range finder.  Weight and height are both issues here.  I use the smallest (!) scope that I can and mount them as close to the bore as I can get them.  I am not happy yet with the Hawke scope and bases on my 54 as I would like lower ones but this is the best compromise I have at the moment.  (about 10 sets of rings have been tried that live in the drawer now and with 3 or 4 different scopes too.)  Finally gave up and went the combination below. 

Ballistics is another.  The low velocities and light weight pellets give an exaggerated ballistic arc.  Example, my RWS 54 initially zeroed at 17 yds is also dead on at 50yds but the pellet dropped 44" between 50 and 100yds - my measurements - not calculations!!

The reason I like air rifles is that they give the same kind of challenge of long range rifle shooting in a backyard instead of a 1000 yd range.  My analogy is that the difficulty is multiplied by about 10.  Shooting 10yds/m is like 100yds/m.  50yds = 500yds; 100yds=1000yds. 

[Rattosaurus]

Responding to DT   (Dave Thomas  Ohio)

I agree with all of that, usually.   I've owned a lot of centerfire and 22LR rifles over the years but of note.... I used to have a Browning Micro Medallion, Japan model, 7mm-08 it was a really tiny little package of whuhpsome with a Hammer forged barrel.  I intended as my backpacking rifle and I wanted iron sights on it but, after I had purchased it, the gunsmith told me that the barrel was so thin that he couldn't drill/tap it and was so perfect he wouldn't solder a sight to it so....after it tried making sights for it and the realized that my eyes wern't goo enough to see antlers anyhow.. I wound up with a scope....the scope I settled on was the tiniest little Leopold 1x4 and the mounts were also Leopold.

Now, one of the reasons why I chose the Browning as my backpacking rifle was that the barrel was free floated...the Remington Model Seven looks free floated but isn't and, my backpacking style, with 6 million acres of Adirondack mountains to get lost in, usually involved waking up to find all of you're equipment covered with a thin sheet of ice.  I still prefer the thick brush as far away from other hunters as possible...

.....well, the scope mounting was what I considered at the time as "no brainer."  The long time favored method of mounting a scope to the top of a center fire rifle receiver with tow piece mounts and four case hardened grade 8 hex screws and at the correct height so that you're eye lines up with the scope immediately....... always was the only way to go.   That was a wonderful and pretty little 7lb rifle.

Well, the next year I found a gun broker who had "accidentally" ordered a Browning 22lr bolt action regular grade. He said $200 with the rings and I walked out the door with it.  Except for the trimmings the two rifles were pretty near identical and I blew another two hundred on the matching scope for it.  The one difference between the to was the rings, the rings he had ordered with the .22lr were dovetail and the arbitrary "medium height".  However, If one were to look at the receiver closely enough, it was also drilled and tapped for tow piece mounts.

Now, if you want to solve "the problem", I'm sure... (you can get that rifle in just about any 308 based caliber)... you can simply ask Leopold, they used to have a hotline just for scope mounts and I know they make bases that are designed to be machined by your gunsmith.  And the tap, screws and drill bit are actually pretty standardized in the USA.      Now if you think about how pretty that is and how but ugly the "Weaver rail" is.

Barrel droop:  Well, after they machine the barrel and the breech they hand fit the two.... over in fantasy land...and then they bolt the thing in a fixture and drill the hinge bolt...also in fantasy land...in the real world, you get it.   (Bending a barrel a little bit like that usually has no effect on the accuracy of the rifle and saving forty buck by putting a few pieces of soda can inside the scope mount has always worked well too.  You can actually buy adjustable mounts for 1000yd centerfire, if you have deep enough pockets.)

Thanks for the chat...

{
my JSB Exact heavys are still a no show.  This is where I end up with two tins of the wrong pellets and mysterious credit card charges...three months from now...because management' college education didn't want to stick with there invoice price and pay their own 3x markup on shipping charges.   Usually the will come in two weeks after the charge shows up on the card, USPS and will be smashed all to *(&^, so I have to pay shipping a few more times.

}

[dtdtdtdt]

Most of my issues with big scopes and short ranges start with geometry.  Manufacturing tolerances are secondary but important.  As you note, getting a barrel and action perfectly straight with one another is a difficult thing and unexpected by anyone except the most anal of personalities (ME?)  Tolerances are why we have adjustable scopes to correct for the MINOR ones.  MY beef is with the ones that are so bad that a scope can't be adjusted enough to get the rifle zeroed a the short ranges.  Hence the need for droop compensated mounts. 

The reason we work on guns is to have fun and learn things.  There are as many theories as their are people. 

The big scopes, short ranges, sensitive parallax adjustments, ballistic arc corrections etc. keep us boys off the streets and out of the bars.  Also give us a place to spend the 401k that the our children are lusting after... 

All the discussion is instructive and sometimes helpful. 

Nice story on the rifles and scopes.  As a matter of interest, I was starting a grandson out in shooting last night with the same 22 that his father learned on 35 years ago.  I had put a "better" scope on it because I had a spare hand-me-down.  The boy did well for the first time but I noticed he wasn't getting his cheek on the stock at all.  So later today, I will go dig around my scope box to find the one I took off (a 4x original Weaver) and will put it back on...

As for straight actions, barrels, etc.  There is a custom manufacturer of bench rest rifles (Kelby) about 40 miles from me.  If I truly get anal, I might go after one of his. His are straight!!  A friend just passed away who had a Kelby with 7 barrels and three bolts!  I might see if Kelby (who is selling it for the estate) can make a semi-reasonable deal.

Cheers!