Condor SS setting it up and interpreting chrony data

[crittahitta]

Jethro maybe i missed it. It was a lot to read but what are you looking to do with the rifle. Hunt or shoot targets? At what ranges are you looking to shoot mostly? If your within 40 yards it looks like you have about 30 good shots without much of a poi drop. But if you shoot longer it will start to be noticeable. I have the .25 cal with the adjustable top hat also and I'm trying to shoot my 34 gr jsb kings in the 850 range. I can get a lot of shots at 40 but at 100 it gets noticeable. For me I'm getting about 55 foot lbs with the big restrictor and can target shoot and hunt with that at any range. Keep up the good work and tell us what you find out. I think talon tunes sells the washers already sized.

[Bullseyeft]

I am totally frustrated as I have been working on this for more than 2 weeks and have wasted over 500 pellets.

By pure coincidence I've just read your post on tag. I'm only a week into it but a lot more pellets. Fingers crossed eh!

  Fingers definitely crossed.

[Ooops]

Hi crittahitta

At what ranges are you looking to shoot mostly?

I hope to be able to swap from low power pest control inside buildings, to 30m plinking to 100m targets. I’m particularly keen to try the 100m fun

.... I'm getting about 55 foot lbs with the big restrictor and can target shoot and hunt with that at any range.

That's the sort of thing that I was hoping to work out.

I think talon tunes sells the washers already sized

Thanks for the suggestion. I had already seen them but I wasn't aware that they were presized. Any how with a few good suggestions in hand I was able to come up with a very user friendly solution that suits my needs perfectly

[Bullseyeft]

Jethro,
I received a response on the TAG from Tony at Talon Tunes. Just wanted to let you know, I am getting ready to try his recommendations.

[Ooops]

Thanks for the update. I've been following your TAG thread too.
This morning I followed his instructions but the results were exactly the same.
I also checked the TH alignment and it looked good to my untrained eye, and I'd previously swapped it out for the factory version for no improvement.

[Ooops]

Both Bulleyeft and I are using the Talon Tunes Quick Change Top Hat and while looking at mine for alignment I noticed these marks. Could this be contributing to the problem?

[dyotat100]

That stem is pretty rough. Don't think that's your problem because you said the stock one does the same thing.

Have you tried removing the hammer weight and just use the hammer. I kept it out of the gun I messed with

[Ooops]

Thank you Dyotat, I'll give it a try when I get home from work
Taking the weight out will leave a space where it used to be, given that I've shortened the spring to appx 3.5" will that space cause a problem?

Yes the problem occurred with both. Is there any benefit in me trying to polish the stem with say 1200 wet & dry or metal polish?

Is there anything for me to look at regarding the delrin seat in the valve? And is there any torque setting for the brass plate that caps the valve? It was very easy to make the first turn when I took it apart. I currently have it as gently snugged up as pin pliers will allow and then blue loctite applied.

Sorry for all the questions but I'm pulling my hair out

[dyotat100]

What PW are you shooting at?

PW  up the difference and try. Hopefully you still have enough left. I haven't really messed with .22. I have one but I haven't had a tank for it in 6 years. When I did it was regulated.

[Ooops]

What PW are you shooting at?

PW  up the difference and try. Hopefully you still have enough left. I haven't really messed with .22. I have one but I haven't had a tank for it in 6 years. When I did it was regulated.

Predominantly I've been working at pw1/1 and 2200 but I have tried other settings and higher & lower psi. Yesterday I filled to 2800 and shot down to 1160 at pw7/1 & pw 7/8 and still had the same issues.

[dyotat100]

The brass piece I just push with a allen wrench till it stops. Once the valve is pressurized it's not moving.

Don't know  why your getting the spikes

[Bullseyeft]

Jethro,
I have the same marks on my TTQCTH. I posted a 40 shot string on the TAG after trying Tony's recommendations. I still have the random inconsistencies like you do. I didn't have this problem until I swapped out the Talon valve internals with the Hiflo internals from the Condor valve. I am considering swapping them back but would like to get the power from the Hiflo valve for hunting. Right now I am at a lose as to what it could be other than the valve. I am going to call AF and see what they think. I will let you know what I find out. Jim

[Ooops]

Hi Jim
As Dyotat pointed out I got the same inconsistencies from the AF top hat so top hats are ruled out.

I didn't have this problem until I swapped out the Talon valve internals with the Hiflo internals from the Condor valve ......  I am going to call AF and see what they think.

As you say that pretty much leaves the valve. It'll be very interesting to see what AF have to say. 
Olly

[Bullseyeft]

Olly, I talked to AF. PM sent to you. You need to call AF. They believe the issue is the hammer. Evidently there were some hammers that had an issue. They are sending me one of the new ones and our symptoms were the same as the bad hammer symptoms. Fingers crossed again.

[454 Big Block Chevy]

I have the New Airforce hammer, its a few grams lighter, and a mm or 2 shorter.  this is what i used, to achieve the 5 fpe tune in .25... pellets were just about falling out of the end of the barrel.  I believe, you have a cranky valve/tank.  I used to experience strange instances like this, and i sent my tank in to airforce and they replaced it.  New tank, shot powerful, but,  no strange occurances.  I now use a full TT setup, carbon fiber tank, drop down adapter, and extreme valve, with the TT top hat.  great for .25, but way  massively overkill for .22. 

Right now in my rifle, using the extreme talon tunes valve, and top hat.
shortened main spring, brass heavy hammer, large insert, o ring.  2400 psi fill, 40 shots at about 875 fps, -/+ 5-10 fps.  this is with JSB 18.13 grain pellets.  My gun shoots the 14.3 great up to about 950 fps, but, you get really random fliers from cheap pellets.  the JSB's i've rarely experienced a flier i couldn't claim as my fault.  some things to think of... are you assembling your rifle dry inside?  light film of oil?  or are you using silicone grease on your hammer, and spring?  I like to very very very lightly grease my tube/frame, and hammer with clear silicone dialetic grease (spark plug boot grease from autozone, i use permatex brand, grey tube).  Its my understanding that proper lubrication makes everything work better... too much you cause a hinderance to operation.  I even put silicone shock oil, on my top hat stem about every 5,000 shots to make sure its ok.  1/10th a drop on your fingers, and rub the top hat stem with your finger tips.  again, just helps everything work better.

as far as breeches, i installed the 90 duro o rings from Talon Tunes, and have NEVER had a problem.. they have been in for a LONG time..... i can't say WHY i replaced them.... other than tony sold them... heheheheh.
Factory breeches are solid designes.  Mine is scared and scuffed and scratched, even gauged, from the corner of the frame where it rides... and i have yet to experience a need to replace it.  my rifle shoots with such consnistancy and accuracy it would blow your mind.  until that changes, i won't touch the breech.  I know the guys when they start pushing hard core power, past 3000 psi... you have to upgrade your breech as the delrin just isn't strong enough to handle the power... my tank is rated to 3625 psi, and i wouldn't dare go that high on the factory breech, especially with a big heavy slug, like i would be using at that power level.

CALL AIRFORCE.  talk to rachel or the other lady that answers, i forget her name.  They are great, really great.  they will help you!  tell them you tried clipping your spring, and offer to buy a new one just so you have it... they will probably give it to you free since your experiencing problems.  Also, if they send you the modified striker and weight (read hammer... airforce calls their hammers, STRIKERS), they will probably give you a spring.  I own several springs, standard length, shortened, and a heavy spring from talon tunes... the heavy spring is stupid stiff and i just can't justify its use... i almost worry my valve will get wrecked with a heavy hammer and heavy spring.

Good luck buddy.  PM if you need more info, i'll give you my cell number and we can talk

[Ooops]

Olly, I talked to AF. PM sent to you. You need to call AF. They believe the issue is the hammer. Evidently there were some hammers that had an issue. They are sending me one of the new ones and our symptoms were the same as the bad hammer symptoms. Fingers crossed again.

Thanks Jim, I've PMd you back. I'll get onto them right away. Did they say specifically what the issue with the hammer was?
However, before I put in the AF hammer and weight I was using a TT hammer with slap mod and getting the same issues. And your set up was fault free before the valve parts swap. Taking both situations into consideration I'm inclined to think its a valve parts issue. However I'm happy to be proven wrong so as you say fingers crossed.

You'll get yours long before I get mine so please let me know how you get on with it.

[Ooops]

Thanks or input Edward, as always its much appreciated

I believe, you have a cranky valve/tank.

  I've just mentioned to Jim that I was using a TT hammer before switching to the AF one and still had the same issues. I'm of the opinion that its a valve issue but then I am inexperienced in these matters

are you assembling your rifle dry inside?  light film of oil?  or are you using silicone grease on your hammer, and spring?

I've tried a number of things but as I'm in a dusty environment I keep it as dry as possible
I've polished the breech end of the barrel and polished the inside of the frame.
In all permutations I've never put lube on the frame. I've kept every thing forward of the breech bushing dry.

On the barrel where the breech rides I've used silicone & I've also used VFGs Teflon based oil and grease and currently a teflon spray that are all allowed to dry and where appropriate buffed. The breech o rings have had silicone and VFG TFT oil

All the above applied sparingly

I even put silicone shock oil, on my top hat stem about every 5,000 shots to make sure its ok.

I did the same with VFG TFT oil

i installed the 90 duro o rings from Talon Tunes

I did the same and have changed them out a couple of times

CALL AIRFORCE.  talk to rachel or the other lady that answers, i forget her name.  They are great, really great.  they will help you!

I'll get on to them and pass them all the relevant information. I'm also going buy another set of valve internals

Thanks again

[454 Big Block Chevy]

I'm about 98% certain it's a valve issue.   Probably a sticky valve seat or face, maybe a weaker valve spring.   The spring you clipped and then heated needs to be replaced.  You will never get any consistency with this spring

[Bullseyeft]

I'm about 98% certain it's a valve issue.   Probably a sticky valve seat or face, maybe a weaker valve spring.   The spring you clipped and then heated needs to be replaced.  You will never get any consistency with this spring

   I believe that you are correct. I received a call from AF today from a tech. He believes it is a valve issue as well. They are sending me a new valve spring and retainer. I went ahead and got them to send a new brass cap and delrin seat which I paid for. Just so everything is new when reassembled. It isn't much fun hand pumping from 0psi. I don't want to have to tear it apart again if I can help it. I should have everything by the  weekend and get it back together then shoot a string and see if this fixes it. I will report back with the results.

[Ooops]

Jim AF have suggested the possibility of an out of spec cocking bolt, where the o ring grooves are incorrect. I'm to relube it and test.

Yesterday I stripped and inspected the valve, I could see nothing wrong with my untrained eye.
I took a few photos of the seat, what's your assessment of its condition?