Darkside decision?

[smythsg]

Scott, I will turn 65 in July and still have no problem filling my guns with a pump. (I actually enjoy the exercise) There are many starter PCP rifles to chose from, but if you are willing to spent the cash, the P12 from Mrodair is a great bullpup to start with, powerful and accurate... if you are into the bullpup form factor...

[bigfish123]

I have 3 PCPs with less than 2000 psi fill. I'm a small 65 year old, shoot almost every day fill with a hand pump,  25 - 40 strokes depending on which rifle I'm using with no problems. One 22 caliber 50 fpe 1850 psi 7 shots 40 strokes another 22 caliber 25 fpe 1500 psi 20 shots 40 strokes and a 177 caliber 10 fpe 1300 psi 25 shots 26 strokes. None of these rifles are high dollar but they all are accurate and a TKO make them back yard friendly.

[Davo]

My modified QB is dropping em like its cool.

2 pumps per 29 ft lb shot.

Lately (since the grass got tall) I pump once per month and shoot pests.

2 today.

Im betting more tomorrow before donuts.

[anti-squirrel]

Scott, I've used only my handpump, a Benjamin, to fill my QB and my PP700.  The PP700 I pump to 3000 PSI, 67 CC reservoir, and most of the time I refill once.  Twice during marathon shooting sessions, I've refilled 14 times in one day.


I've also filled my QB bottle, which is a 13CI / 213 CC, 6 times in one day.

Yeah, that's a lot of pumping, but I did A LOT of shooting.  And the naysayers who say not to get into PCPs are just robbing themselves of one more facet of this great sport.  It would be like loving fishing but never being willing to go fly-fishing.

For hunting, a good basic 2000 PSI fill is all you need whether it be the Disco, Maximus, or the Chief, and you'll be able to open up your lethal range with a PCP.  I took my first long distance pest with my PP700 pistol yesterday, 55 measured yards.

[Hoosier Daddy]

That does it...
I need to thin the hoard herd...

[nervoustrigger]

Hi Dave, I haven't seen you post in a while.  Glad to hear the QB is still laying the smack down.

[RAJOD]

I have been in the mind set I was not going to get into the PCP rabbit hole.....Nope not me.
 I have been thinking about a QB79 or an AR2079 as a next gun.
Son in Law #3 worked at a local Paintball Complex for a few years in his younger days and says while they are capable of bulk filling CO2 bottles, he has been recommending I go HPA.  So I started looking around and the QB79 with a Ninja bottle seems nice. What I don't like is the idea of having to drive somewhere to get a tank filled. So that brings me to a hand pump as a solution.
  You can fill a ninja bottle with a Hand pump... right?
But now the recent release of the Beeman Chief has me thinking.
 The built quality of the 3 should all be similar. And if I am going with a hand pump either way I am thinking price wise it may be a wash.
I know the Chief has just hit the market and there is not much hard data on it yet, but is there any benefit to holding onto my mindset of converting a AR2079 to HPA instead of buying a 2K PCP gun built that way from the start?

Just write the check, you are already mentally committed just need us to shove you into the PCP pool

Two choices
- Maximus + pump
- Beeman Cheif+ Pump

Similar guns.  I have a maximus and it is very accurate for the price. 

If the Chief shoots as well in terms of accuracy I would probably go for that over the Maximus just based on the trigger.   The beeman will have a better trigger (save you 20.00 from buying a brass one like I did for the maximus)   The beeman is 2 pounds heavier but its not really a heavy gun.  The Maximus is super light, scope it, sling it and add a bipod and its still lighter.   

Both under 200.00.   About the cheapest way you can test the PCP waters.   You don't have a big downside to this.   But it might lead you down the road to carbon fiber tank, compressor, Daystate or FX etc...

http://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-maximus.html

Look at them, they need a home

[39M]

I would've probably already gotten a couple, but right now I just don't have time enough to shoot them as much as they'd deserve.

An Mrod modded for shot count and a Prod modded for power are on the list.

[Davo]

Hi Dave, I haven't seen you post in a while.  Glad to hear the QB is still laying the smack down.

Hey Jason-your tuned QB is working out great.   We got lots of rain out here last winter so the area is crawling with ground squirrels and rabbits. 

Im surprised to learn these pests rarely move when I overshoot so I can get in a few follow ups as needed.  I've learned my hold unders/overs better so Im connecting more.  20+ ft lbs of impact energy makes a distinct sound. 

[Ol'DeadEye]

Hi Dave, I haven't seen you post in a while.  Glad to hear the QB is still laying the smack down.

Hey Jason-your tuned QB is working out great.   We got lots of rain out here last winter so the area is crawling with ground squirrels and rabbits. 

Im surprised to learn these pests rarely move when I overshoot so I can get in a few follow ups as needed.  I've learned my hold unders/overs better so Im connecting more.  20+ ft lbs of impact energy makes a distinct sound. 

Thwack...

[crispybacon]

The Darkside is expensive, I would consider getting the most gun you can the first time. Have of the advantage of a pcp is the follow up shot, if I were you I'd think about a repeater. They are more expensive but you'll end up with one eventually. I rarely shoot my springers anymore (single shot) since I got a Prod and bullboss. Keep an eye on the bargain gate I scored the bullboss for $379.00

[RAJOD]

The Darkside is expensive, I would consider getting the most gun you can the first time. Have of the advantage of a pcp is the follow up shot, if I were you I'd think about a repeater. They are more expensive but you'll end up with one eventually. I rarely shoot my springers anymore (single shot) since I got a Prod and bullboss. Keep an eye on the bargain gate I scored the bullboss for $379.00

PCP bug is expensive.  My first gun was a Daystate and is still my best by a large margin.  I did not need to buy another gun but nooo I could not do that, had to test the waters in the low and mid price guns.    They are not bad at all, they will get the job done and are just as much fun.   

In theory you should just buy 1 gun and keep it.   I like multiple guns, for friends to shoot and also testing them vs just reading about them.   

Single shot - not really a big deal to me, but yes a 10 shot clips is icing on the cake.   
Silencer - icing on cake can be added to any gun later.
Accuracy - none of the PCPs are terrible in this department.   It gets to be more of "How many shots can I do before my point of impact changes.    If you are hunting pests most of them will give you 15-20 trusted shots and that is all most people need.
weight - This is a big one for me.  I hesitate if a gun is over 8 pounds.   Both guns he is looking at are under that..
2000 psi - this is huge if you are going to hand pump.  Pretty much eliminates most PCPs.  If you go to a 3000+ psi gun just forget about hand pumping then you are into carbon tanks and +600.00 to price.

Price - so low on these you are not going to regret it.

[anti-squirrel]

Aw, c'mon guys     I handpump my guns, a QB and a PP700, both to 3K.  And Manny  (NomadicPirate) handpumps his guns, and he has some real air-cannons.  I mostly plink with my PP700  (very precise plinking) and I'm pumping it up quite often- even as a single-shot pistol with a rifle scope.  And I'm still under $600 for the pump, the pistol, and the QB combined!

A 2000 PSI fill gun isn't bad at all, and I've pumped my QB only to 2K a number of times just for expediency.

In the end, there's no harm in exploring the deep end of the pool.  Sort of like anybody with springers will eventually end up with either a D34 or an HW30...  It ain't a bad thing!

[RAJOD]

Aw, c'mon guys     I handpump my guns, a QB and a PP700, both to 3K.  And Manny  (NomadicPirate) handpumps his guns, and he has some real air-cannons.  I mostly plink with my PP700  (very precise plinking) and I'm pumping it up quite often- even as a single-shot pistol with a rifle scope.  And I'm still under $600 for the pump, the pistol, and the QB combined!

A 2000 PSI fill gun isn't bad at all, and I've pumped my QB only to 2K a number of times just for expediency.

In the end, there's no harm in exploring the deep end of the pool.  Sort of like anybody with springers will eventually end up with either a D34 or an HW30...  It ain't a bad thing!

LOL, yes there will be people that say "Oh 3000 psi" no problem, love to shoot all day and pumping is no biggie.    I did that 3000 psi pump thing and it got old fast.    2000 psi is much more doable for the average Joe.   I just don't want to tell someone to go buy a 3300 psi gun and pretend pumping it to 3300 is easy.  30 shots and your out and back to pumping.   

[Davo]

Aw, c'mon guys     I handpump my guns, a QB and a PP700, both to 3K.  And Manny  (NomadicPirate) handpumps his guns, and he has some real air-cannons.  I mostly plink with my PP700  (very precise plinking) and I'm pumping it up quite often- even as a single-shot pistol with a rifle scope.  And I'm still under $600 for the pump, the pistol, and the QB combined!

A 2000 PSI fill gun isn't bad at all, and I've pumped my QB only to 2K a number of times just for expediency.

In the end, there's no harm in exploring the deep end of the pool.  Sort of like anybody with springers will eventually end up with either a D34 or an HW30...  It ain't a bad thing!

Yup, its very doable.  My QB has a big bottle and I generally pump to 3K, but I don't have to. 

Tangential question regarding your pistol... is this available for it?  What kind of FPE is it getting?

[anti-squirrel]

Aw, c'mon guys     I handpump my guns, a QB and a PP700, both to 3K.  And Manny  (NomadicPirate) handpumps his guns, and he has some real air-cannons.  I mostly plink with my PP700  (very precise plinking) and I'm pumping it up quite often- even as a single-shot pistol with a rifle scope.  And I'm still under $600 for the pump, the pistol, and the QB combined!

A 2000 PSI fill gun isn't bad at all, and I've pumped my QB only to 2K a number of times just for expediency.

In the end, there's no harm in exploring the deep end of the pool.  Sort of like anybody with springers will eventually end up with either a D34 or an HW30...  It ain't a bad thing!

LOL, yes there will be people that say "Oh 3000 psi" no problem, love to shoot all day and pumping is no biggie.    I did that 3000 psi pump thing and it got old fast.    2000 psi is much more doable for the average Joe.   I just don't want to tell someone to go buy a 3300 psi gun and pretend pumping it to 3300 is easy.  30 shots and your out and back to pumping.   

Oh, I'm not disputing that... but pumping is actually quite easy until you hit 2600 PSI.  Fro what I've read, the Hill and Hill-replica pumps work even better, but my Benjamin pump gets it done fine.  And for a 2K fill, no sweat.

and I've filled my QB to only 2000 a number of times when testing different pellets- mostly out of laziness.  And in the grand scheme, comparing to my 392, my 760, or even my P-17 or 95QE, I have to do some type of work to make lead go downrange.  IE: to make it go I need to expend energy.  I can take 40 or 80 shots with my pistol and it tires me out after pumping less than the same number of shots in my Hatsan 95QE.

Yup, its very doable.  My QB has a big bottle and I generally pump to 3K, but I don't have to. 

Tangential question regarding your pistol... is this available for it?  What kind of FPE is it getting?

Mine is only .177, but I can get over 12 FPE.  Donny (Rallyshark) and a few others have taken theirs to 19/20 FPE in .22, and I'm sure more can be made at the cost of shot count on an already-small cylinder.

I've seen that stock in the video before- pretty slick, but I think it's a one-off creation.  Still, looks fairly simple to make.

[jaraxle1zx]

I had a hand pump once, forgot the name but it was a better one that filled higher psi.

The thing about the hand pump that I liked best.....scratch that......I mean that I LOVED!!!
Was the day I sold it and bought a tank.

My 2nd happiest day in darkside land was the day my compressor came in.

Would highly recommend against the hand pump unless your a teenager in good shape.

[Ribbonstone]

I started with tanks, but went to pumps...like the little bit of exercise, like not having to deal with hauling tanks, like not having to hydro test...a little work filling seemed a fair trade to me.

Still does, even (like many in this post) and of SS age....will save tank filling for when I retire the 2nd time.

Unless your rifle leaks or you totally degassed, a typical Disco.Maxi will run well from about 1000psi (about 2000-1000psi)...so you aren't filling it from zero.

Typically, 40-50 pumps (depending on the brand and health of the pump) will bring one from 1000 back up to 2000psi.  That's not enough pumps to need a cool-down wait, so it takes about  2 minutes of slow pace pumping.


Out in the woods/range can be a bit of a PIA to keep everything clean....really don't want to lay the rifle down in the dirt, contaminate the pump with grit, and need a pretty stable base for the pump to sit on.


Pump tales:

1. Those fiber glass 4.5K tanks do have one seldom mentioned advantage: they tend to float.

2. (in relation to #1): if you do drop a pump over board and manage to find and retrieve it, likely would have been just as well off to have left it on the bottom unless you can immediately take it apart (doesn't take too maay hours of salt water... while you boat back to the dock, load up the boat,  and then drive home.)

3. Been trying to kill two of the less expensive Chinese pumps (one was $120 and the other $100) for +2 years.  Still working.  While I was paying attention to the Chinese pumps, the much less used Hills pump died.

[jaraxle1zx]

Different things work for different people.
I'm not in bad shape but after a motorcycle wreck the hand pump is to much on "Me"
Works the one part in my lower neck/upper back that I injured.

Hand pumping also works better if its not 100+ in the shade with high humidity.
The guns I have now like the Hercules and soon to be flex 357 with 4500psi Carbon bottle, I couldn't imagine hand pumping these guns. (Still have trusty bt65 30 cal and it can be hand pumped to fill)

As always if your getting into pcp you will need a way to fill and I think everyone should give the hand pump a try while having a normal shooting session to see if this is what they want.


The compressor/tank method is Costly and you could buy a few nice guns for a good set up.
But after I bought it and got over cost............I'm very happy with this set up.

[Ribbonstone]

We wander...

Start of this post was about a 2K Disco/Maxi/Beeman Chief/ or 3K QB79HPA.  Refilling the 13CI HPA bottles can be a pain (more like 150-170 pump strokes), but the other three will fill from bottom to top of a typical shot session in about 40-ish pump strokes.