Why are grackles protected ?

[wahoowad]

 I respect that grackles are federally protected,  I would just like to understand if there is any reasoning behind that.  At the farms I hunt they appear as thick as the pigeons and starlings  and are in the feed is much as all the other species.

 Are they protected because they are somehow and in danger species? 

[nervoustrigger]

I've wondered the same thing.  They are incredibly numerous and destructive.  They are under the conservation status of "least concern", the lowest one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_grackle

[wahoowad]

 It's a darn shame too. They are the least skittish of all of them.

[kbstingwing]

So that's a Grackle....... not suppose to be here in Kalifornia, but I see these things down in Carlsbad when I stop for breakfast at Angelo's, I was thinking What kind of bird is that? it's not Native to this area, I know cause I grew up here, so now it's become an invasive species, no wonder I haven't seen the Red wing Black Birds around....... Grackles taken over the territory like the Mafioso's........ so fed's got them on the witness protection program...... maybe they ought to change their protection status since they're invading places they never been.........
just my thoughts.........

[aluminumfetish]

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=31506.0

found this thread from 2012, mind you it's 5 years old a lot may have changed but it sheds a little light on the subject.

[Mackado]

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=31506.0

found this thread from 2012, mind you it's 5 years old a lot may have changed but it sheds a little light on the subject.

Good info there, only recently after I started to look into the visitors to my back yard and I noticed that what I called noisy Black birds were Grackles and among them Starlings were in the mix, don't know how long Starlings have been around here, as I used to  place them all under the "black bird" category, now that I've been observing the differences I can tell the Starlings by body shape/size other than the yellow beak, which is hard to see sometimes at 50 ft or more, the yellow freckles are even more difficult to see from a distance.

More confusing, there are many different varieties of Grackles, I see lots of 'Great tailed and boat tailed Grackles' and also another invasive species called "Common Mina" that is related to Starlings..

Years ago I removed a bird-wash that attracted too many grackles, didn't like the noise they made when stepping into the yard and they poop all over the water, grass and ran off many other species. Never shot any, I was told when a teen ager that all birds were protected, didn't know about the Starlings though ...

[sawtoothscream]

those things are everywhere around here.  grackles and starling dominate the bird feeder.     

[Artie]

No Grackles in my current neck of the woods , in the sandhills (NC). Boy did we had them way back when I was in Texas. Believe me, if we could of had our way, there would be none left to protect. No need for an alarm clock back then as long as you had a tree near your bedroom.

[oldnamvet]

Every time I fill the bird feeder, it is soon covered by grackles. Then the squirrels show up and a real fight ensues. My twin 3 yr old grandchildren laugh as they watch the action only 10 ft from the front window.  I only do it to entertain the kids.  It goes on sometimes for nearly an hour as each group counterattacks.  Bird seed rains down all over so the mourning doves and sparrows get most of it.

[sawtoothscream]

Yeah we have a squirrel that get up there every morning and the starling are always fighting it.  Blue jays give him hit or two as well.   The starlings and jays fight alot

[cpt_sfc]

We are from the govt. and are here to help you. Be honest they screw up a lot. I used ton work for them and am ashamed at the fools that are hired, to make rules for all of us. The law on birds comes from a treaty from 1938 some one dug out of the files. This is an example of how a treaty can affect all of us.  The farmers around here still get rid of them. Can anyone say avian flu of 1918.

[wolverine]

i believe grackles are in the jay family.

they also migrate, and just about any bird that migrates is protected.

i have 2 farmer friends and they both agree, grackles do more crop damage than crows, raccoons, and deer put together.

when i was young, we had a cherry orchard in the back yard and the grackles and starlings would line the wires waiting for their turn to feed.  i could easily shoot 200 in a morning.  being a pre-teen i never thought about birds being protected.

[Lmgunner13]

Grackles are not protected in Texas;

Protected Wildlife Species in Texas

General
Threatened and Endangered species: Current listing maintained on file with the Secretary of State. Copies may be acquired by contacting TPWD's Wildlife Diversity Program at Austin headquarters. Restrictions apply to the possession of legally acquired specimens of species listed as threatened or endangered in Texas.
Birds
Wild Birds: All wild birds that migrate through or are indigenous to Texas, along with their plumage or other parts, eggs, nests and young are protected from harming, killing and/or possession by state and federal law except that European starlings, English sparrows, and feral pigeons may be killed at any time and their nests and eggs may be destroyed. A permit is not required to control grackles; cowbirds; yellow-headed, red-winged, rusty or Brewer's blackbirds; crows or magpies when these birds are considered a nuisance or causing a public health hazard. No birds may be controlled by any means considered illegal by local city or county ordinance.

[wahoowad]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

[Mackado]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

Don't know, sounds confusing to me, if Grackles are protected by Federal Rules, can they be classified as "nuisance"  under State Code?

[Lmgunner13]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

Don't know, sounds confusing to me, if Grackles are protected by Federal Rules, can they be classified as "nuisance"  under State Code?

Current federal law - § 21.43 Depredation order for blackbirds, cowbirds, crows, grackles, and magpies.
Conditions under which control is allowed by private citizens. You do not need a Federal permit to control the species listed in this section in the following circumstances:

(1) Where they are causing serious injuries to agricultural or horticultural crops or to livestock feed;

(2) When they cause a health hazard or structural property damage;

(3) To protect a species recognized by the Federal Government as an endangered, threatened, or candidate species in any county in which it occurs, as shown in the Service's Environmental Conservation Online System (http://ecos.fws.gov);

(4) To protect a species recognized by the Federal Government as an endangered or threatened species in designated critical habitat for the species; or

(5) To protect a species recognized by a State or Tribe as endangered, threatened, candidate, or of special concern if the control takes place within that State or on the lands of that tribe, respectively.

(6) Each calendar year, you must attempt to control depredation by species listed under this depredation order using nonlethal methods before you may use lethal control. Nonlethal control methods can include such measures as netting and flagging, the use of trained raptors, propane cannons, and recordings.

[anti-squirrel]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

Don't know, sounds confusing to me, if Grackles are protected by Federal Rules, can they be classified as "nuisance"  under State Code?

Simple answer: yes.

Still best to check with local DNR or Game/Wildlife management resources.  In Chesterfield County, I can legally go after grackles as per the previously state Virginia Code.  Exceptions being in Bird Sanctuaries (unwritten but often adhered to), but to my knowledge there are none in my county. 

[Mackado]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

Don't know, sounds confusing to me, if Grackles are protected by Federal Rules, can they be classified as "nuisance"  under State Code?

Simple answer: yes.

Still best to check with local DNR or Game/Wildlife management resources.  In Chesterfield County, I can legally go after grackles as per the previously state Virginia Code.  Exceptions being in Bird Sanctuaries (unwritten but often adhered to), but to my knowledge there are none in my county.

well, IMO that Virginia code is all fine until you read the last (iii) line/clause, which places all the previous writings in the code into doubt, as far as I can tell Federal Law trumps State,  and the Migratory Bird treaty act is a Federal law, and all Grackles are protected and are listed by individual species on the treaty.

https://www.fws.gov/birds/management/managed-species/migratory-bird-treaty-act-protected-species.php#alphabetical



I guess in a Un-Friendly-to-Grackles-State's rural/farming area where Grackles cause heavy damage to crops etc, no one is going to shed a tear for a grackle, but in an urban setting the shooter may not be so lucky, a complaint may cause the issue to escalate, and they may throw the full book at you.

So to be on the safe side, I'll stick to Rats and the occasional Hosps looking to nest under my roof tiles...  

[aluminumfetish]

Well, if the GOVT has time and money to send some A$$ho7E to go out and look for people shooting grackles, having a bird problem will be the least of your problems. Obey to rules of the forum and don't post pics of anything "not in season etccc" but seriously...... clean em out.

[anti-squirrel]

Guess I'm going to have to buy more pellets. I just found in state law where I can help the farmer by taking out some of his grackles:

From code of Virginia: 29.1-100 - Definitions of nuisance Species. As used in and for the purposes of this title only, or in any of the regulations of the Board, unless the context clearly requires a different meaning: “Nuisance species" means blackbirds, crows, cowbirds, grackles, English sparrows, starlings, or those species designated as such by regulations of the Board, and those species found committing or about to commit depredation upon ornamental or shade trees, agricultural crops, wildlife, livestock or other property or when concentrated in numbers and manners as to constitute a health hazard or other nuisance. However, the term nuisance does not include (i) animals designated as endangered or threatened pursuant to §§ 29.1-563, 29.1-564, and 29.1-566, (ii) animals classified as game or fur-bearing animals, and (iii) those species protected by state or federal law.

Don't know, sounds confusing to me, if Grackles are protected by Federal Rules, can they be classified as "nuisance"  under State Code?

Simple answer: yes.

Still best to check with local DNR or Game/Wildlife management resources.  In Chesterfield County, I can legally go after grackles as per the previously state Virginia Code.  Exceptions being in Bird Sanctuaries (unwritten but often adhered to), but to my knowledge there are none in my county.

well, IMO that Virginia code is all fine until you read the last (iii) line/clause, which places all the previous writings in the code into doubt, as far as I can tell Federal Law trumps State,  and the Migratory Bird treaty act is a Federal law, and all Grackles are protected and are listed by individual species on the treaty.

https://www.fws.gov/birds/management/managed-species/migratory-bird-treaty-act-protected-species.php#alphabetical



I guess in a Un-Friendly-to-Grackles-State's rural/farming area where Grackles cause heavy damage to crops etc, no one is going to shed a tear for a grackle, but in an urban setting the shooter may not be so lucky, a complaint may cause the issue to escalate, and they may throw the full book at you.

So to be on the safe side, I'll stick to Rats and the occasional Hosps looking to nest under my roof tiles...

Federal Law trumps State Law except where states thumb their noses to the feds, which is happening with great frequency.  Otherwise, why are a number of state legalizing marijuana?  Or still allowing Sanctuary Cities?  and in case after case, if it doesn't get challenged in higher federal courts, state laws rule supreme.  After all, states are given a large amount of autonomy, hence STATE-issue driver's licenses but not a Federally-issued one.  Some things, the state is effectively sovereign, and again, it boils down to the laws internal to each state and abiding by them.

If I was a farmer and grackles were a problem, per the law here is VA, they are legal, since they are a named nuisance species... just as a permit can be issued for elimination of "migratory" nuisance Canadian geese out of season here in VA. 

Since they are not a problem where I live and the mockingbirds, cardinals, jays, and robins make any black bird's life a living heck, it's a non-issue for me.  The 2 starlings I see early ever morning skidaddle as soon as the jays come out, and the English House Sparrows have been avoiding my back-yard for some reason.