Crosman 101 Dating and Cocking Knob

[Ole Coyote]

I just bought a Crosman 101. It was advertised as a "Pre-War" gun. The picture showed it with a 3rd period, "5 Ring" cocking knob. The text of the sale said it would be replaced with a "period correct" cocking knob. It is not a "clickless" rifle, but the forearm does not match the butt and appears that it may have been replaced at some point, though I do not think it was recent. I know it is typically hard to date these guns, but  I am having real difficulty sussing mine out. It was sent with a period 1 cocking knob. As I understand, period 2 used either a 3/4" knurled knob, or the "diablo" knob, and 3rd period was the "5 ring" knob. The forearm looks more for period 2, non-clickless, or earlier period 3 rifle. The logo does not have a pellet, and indicates the patent date of 1924. The rear sight channel is actually molded into frame, not a raised relief. Can someone offer a little help dating this gun? Is it really a 1st Period gun with a replacement forearm? If it is Period 2, does anyone know where I might get the correct knob?

[Yng@hrt]

Here are some identifying features;

Model 101 Pneumatic pump, .22 cal., single shot. Die cast receiver w/logo: pat. Oct. 28, 1924, Crosman Arms Co. Rochester, NY Rifle 1925-1929
Model 101 variant with applied logo and "clickless" forearm Rifle 1938-1939
Model 101 "Pellet" logo variant with hardwood stock & forearm. Rifle 1930-1950
Model 101 Late variant with crinkle finish paint and American elm stock Rifle 1949-1950

[Ole Coyote]

So then, this appears to be a 1st period rifle. Thanks for the help. It has a brass/bronze barrel, but has very good rifling. It was just resealed, but seems a little under-powered. It's not even punching holes in cardboard at 10 yards.

[Yng@hrt]

A few more;

MODEL DESCRIPTION Rifle/Pistol CIRCA
First Model Rifle Pneumatic pump, .22 cal., single shot, rear mounted in dovetail slot top front of receiver Rifle 1923
First Model Rifle Rear sight mounted on bridge type bracket, steel barrel & compression tube Rifle
First Model Rifle Nickel plated brass compression tube Rifle
First Model Rifle Die cast receiver w/logo: Crosman Rochester, NY Pat. April 23-23 Rifle
Second Model Rifle Pneumatic pump, .22 cal., single shot Rifle 1923
Third Model Rifle Pneumatic pump, .22 cal., single shot Rifle 1924

[45flint]

I can't see from your pictures but the first series has a very distinctive port area where you put the pellet in, it is faceted and not rounded like later models.  See pic.  Area where the screw is.

[Rob112o]

So then, this appears to be a 1st period rifle. Thanks for the help. It has a brass/bronze barrel, but has very good rifling. It was just resealed, but seems a little under-powered. It's not even punching holes in cardboard at 10 yards.

Welp, somebody lied to you, that it's been resealed. Unless that cardboard is sheet metal painted cardboard brown even 1 pump should get you into heavy duty cardboard and right throw most cardboard boxes.
   How many pumps and how far was the cardboard?

[Ole Coyote]

Welp, somebody lied to you, that it's been resealed. Unless that cardboard is sheet metal painted cardboard brown even 1 pump should get you into heavy duty cardboard and right throw most cardboard boxes.
   How many pumps and how far was the cardboard?

I bought it it from a famous airgun gunsmith. I seriously doubt he lied. That is with 10 pumps. It holds air overnight at least. Here is one thing I have noticed. When fired, it does not release all of the air. I can make sure it is empty, pump 10 times, fire my wimpy shot, and it still takes 6 more trigger pulls to empty the air out of it. It seems it is holding the air, just not releasing enough to give the pellet full velocity.

[Ole Coyote]

I can't see from your pictures but the first series has a very distinctive port area where you put the pellet in, it is faceted and not rounded like later models.  See pic.  Area where the screw is.

You are right. Mine has an octagon profile. My brother's '49 model has a rounded receiver. I see from your pic, the rear sight channel is either milled or molded into your frame, same as mine, not a raised relief.

[45flint]

Welp, somebody lied to you, that it's been resealed. Unless that cardboard is sheet metal painted cardboard brown even 1 pump should get you into heavy duty cardboard and right throw most cardboard boxes.
   How many pumps and how far was the cardboard?

I bought it it from a famous airgun gunsmith. I seriously doubt he lied. That is with 10 pumps. It holds air overnight at least. Here is one thing I have noticed. When fired, it does not release all of the air. I can make sure it is empty, pump 10 times, fire my wimpy shot, and it still takes 6 more trigger pulls to empty the air out of it. It seems it is holding the air, just not releasing enough to give the pellet full velocity.

When I resealed my 101 the same thing happened to me it would not dump all the air, took two or three cockings,   I found that I overtighted the release value causing it to cup and not lie flat.  I backed off the tightening and it was fine.

[Yng@hrt]

Steve's recommendation sounds great but if for some reason you are still having issues;

Something you might try. I had a problem with my '49 101. It was not holding pressure on the first three pumps. I poured alcohol directly above the piston (see pic) & cycled the gun several times until the gunk was completely gone (looking at the discharge on a concrete floor). I finished it off by adding several drops of oil. Cycled it again until all the oil was gone. Now the rifle works great.

[Rob112o]

That worked for you Marty because yours was an old gun that hadn't been used in some time. It needed to be cleared of all the dried up gunk and lubed. His was just resealed by a "famous" airgun smith. So, he shouldn't need to clean the valve out by flushing with alcohol. It should, have already been nicely cleaned of all gunk and debris when it was apart during the rebuild. Though based on his reseal and rebuild job maybe it wouldn't hurt to try and flush it out.

[Yng@hrt]

Ya, the flush is best done as a first line of defense. Scott (Hoosier Daddy) turned me on to this method & its worked on all 3 of my pumpers. Just thought I would pass it forward.

[Ole Coyote]

The gun was serviced and sold by JG Airguns. I removed the valve so my brother could find out the correct method to reassemble his. Evidently, I didn't use the correct method to reassemble mine. I trust that John did exactly as he said and the fault is all mine.

[Rob112o]

The gun was serviced and sold by JG Airguns. I removed the valve so my brother could find out the correct method to reassemble his. Evidently, I didn't use the correct method to reassemble mine. I trust that John did exactly as he said and the fault is all mine.

Oh well that makes sense. Left out some important details, lol.

[Ole Coyote]

I just got through taking it apart, and reassembling it. I verified that the seals are indeed pristine. It now has a bit more power, and only has air left to fire once after the initial shot. I think the hammer spring may be a little weak, but otherwise it seems to perform OK. I can only assume I got the valve a little too tight the first time I put it back together. I'll remember that for the next time.

[Rob112o]

Sweet, glad to hear she's running much better.

[45flint]

I just got through taking it apart, and reassembling it. I verified that the seals are indeed pristine. It now has a bit more power, and only has air left to fire once after the initial shot. I think the hammer spring may be a little weak, but otherwise it seems to perform OK. I can only assume I got the valve a little too tight the first time I put it back together. I'll remember that for the next time.

Of
Are you shooting it with the original small cocking knob?  That could be part of the problem, they keep adding weight to these over the years cause the added weight helps open the valve.  These first period guns were awesomely hand built but they learned a lot about improving their function over the years. If this gun ever went into a Crosman facility for work they would have updated all the parts that is probably why it had a five ring cocking knob to begin with.  Your shooting a piece of history, very cool!

[Ole Coyote]

Are you shooting it with the original small cocking knob?  That could be part of the problem, they keep adding weight to these over the years cause the added weight helps open the valve.  These first period guns were awesomely hand built but they learned a lot about improving their function over the years.

Yeah, That is the only knob I have for it. As I said, I just bought it. I am actually a little surprised. My gun, which is obviously a First Period gun, has a steel and aluminum valve. My brother's gun is known to be a 1949, but has an all brass valve. I have read that when Crosman received these guns for repair, they repaired them with whatever parts were on hand at the moment, irrespective of model, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I have thought about finding a different cocking knob for it. I read a series of articles on the gun at Pyramid Air and they mentioned that over the years they got both stronger springs, and heavier knobs.

[45flint]

Are you shooting it with the original small cocking knob?  That could be part of the problem, they keep adding weight to these over the years cause the added weight helps open the valve.  These first period guns were awesomely hand built but they learned a lot about improving their function over the years.

Yeah, That is the only knob I have for it. As I said, I just bought it. I am actually a little surprised. My gun, which is obviously a First Period gun, has a steel and aluminum valve. My brother's gun is known to be a 1949, but has an all brass valve. I have read that when Crosman received these guns for repair, they repaired them with whatever parts were on hand at the moment, irrespective of model, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I have thought about finding a different cocking knob for it. I read a series of articles on the gun at Pyramid Air and they mentioned that over the years they got both stronger springs, and heavier knobs.

I would never replace that original knob, too cool.  I have a 1930 102 and I look at the pump cup holder and it's aluminum.  It's a awesome shooting gun but I bet it has no original valves.  And maybe that's a good thing?  Someone said finding a original 101 is like finding a original M1 Girrand.  How would you ever know?

[Ole Coyote]

Well, certainly this gun has some collectors mystique for me, but I want to get the most out of shooting it too. I will put a heavier hammer spring in it. I may get a heavier knob, but that screws off. When I am done shooting for the day, the new knob is off and the correct one on in 30 seconds. I hear you  about as "original as a Garand". An apt comparison