Top 5 Vintage Pumpers

[WECSOG]

Thanks, Marty! Believe me though, I'm a rank beginner compared to several of the guys here!

[Yng@hrt]

Ok, let’s see if we can start whittling this ranking down a bit. Let’s try for the top 10 & go from there. These are my pix from what folks have posted with photos & detailed info. You guys that just posted names, if your pix aren’t showing up…better get off you duff.

1. Sheridans; Model “A” Super Grade & Model “B” Sporter.
2. Kessler (I’ll go out on a limb with this one)
3. Benji 392P (Racine Production) “a .22 Sheridan Streak”. Who can argue with that?
4. Sheridan C’s (Pre 1990)
5. Benji 392PA (very early cartridge valve type)
6. Crosman 102

Let the games begin 

[Yng@hrt]

Great, glad everyone agrees with my pix …onward;

 7. Sharp Ace
 8. Benji 342 ('78-up)
 9. Crosman 101
10 Rochester (not sure what that is but sure sounds good)

 
                                                                                                                                                                           

[45flint]

Here's your Kessler, or part of one,
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633031875

[RAJOD]

For me I can just go from what I wanted as a kid.   I started with a daisy red ryder type.  Very low power.

1.  Crosman 760, this was the gun to have for all the kids.    Not saying the best but back in the late 60s early 70s the 760 was just cool.   BBs and Pellets.    There was none of this bench testing stuff, it was all frogs small game.

2.  Sheridan 397 - Not sure the model, had a buddy with one.  Might have been a better gun but at the time we use to just want max shots and te 760 was faster.   It seemed too heavy and slow for a kid.

3.  Crosman 766?  It came out after the 760 similar gun with rifled barrel.  (But plastic not wood like 760)

4.  The first break barrels -  I liked the concept and I think it was the early beemans made in germany (not the china or spain ones)

[Yng@hrt]

Here's your Kessler, or part of one,
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633031875

Nope. Not sure what that is but it's definitely not this one;

http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/kessler-air-rifle---buffalo-ny---msp--22-cal.html

[avator]

Rochester...
After the war there were many small companies that struggled because they no longer had contracts to support the war effort. The Monroe Gasket Co. was one such. They actually commissioned one of Crosman's engineers (kinda shady) to help them design an build gun. This it why it so resembles the 100 series. They produced the Rochester for 1 year, '48/'49. Kessler then bought them out and rebadged them "Kessler" and produced them for 3 more years. Want to dig deeper? Look up the Apache. Check out the slide in barrel caliber change. I almost bought 2 of these when I bought the Rochester. I didn't because the Rochester was in working condition and Apaches need some help.. including finding the slip ins. Sometimes I wonder if I should have snatched them up. I did check later for them and they were gone. There is a member here (he is welcome to expose himself if he wishes) who is the nephew of the older gentleman that sold me the Rochester. He had the Apaches and a couple Kesslers as well. Just another opportunity for me to meet an awesome older gentleman. I am the better for it.

[45flint]

Here's your Kessler, or part of one,
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/633031875

Nope. Not sure what that is but it's definitely not this one;

http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/kessler-air-rifle---buffalo-ny---msp--22-cal.html

I've been looking for vintage guns for about year and every Kessler or Rochester I see is a basket case, and I have seen very few.

[avator]

Ut OH.... you just missed one. I sold it to another member. Fully functional... needed cosmetic.

[Yng@hrt]

For me I can just go from what I wanted as a kid.   I started with a daisy red ryder type.  Very low power.

1.  Crosman 760, this was the gun to have for all the kids.    Not saying the best but back in the late 60s early 70s the 760 was just cool.   BBs and Pellets.    There was none of this bench testing stuff, it was all frogs small game.

2.  Sheridan 397 - Not sure the model, had a buddy with one.  Might have been a better gun but at the time we use to just want max shots and te 760 was faster.   It seemed too heavy and slow for a kid.

3.  Crosman 766?  It came out after the 760 similar gun with rifled barrel.  (But plastic not wood like 760)

4.  The first break barrels -  I liked the concept and I think it was the early beemans made in germany (not the china or spain ones)

Thanks RAJOD! I'll post pix when I get a chance.

[Yng@hrt]

Rochester...
After the war there were many small companies that struggled because they no longer had contracts to support the war effort. The Monroe Gasket Co. was one such. They actually commissioned one of Crosman's engineers (kinda shady) to help them design an build gun. This it why it so resembles the 100 series. They produced the Rochester for 1 year, '48/'49. Kessler then bought them out and rebadged them "Kessler" and produced them for 3 more years. Want to dig deeper? Look up the Apache. Check out the slide in barrel caliber change. I almost bought 2 of these when I bought the Rochester. I didn't because the Rochester was in working condition and Apaches need some help.. including finding the slip ins. Sometimes I wonder if I should have snatched them up. I did check later for them and they were gone. There is a member here (he is welcome to expose himself if he wishes) who is the nephew of the older gentleman that sold me the Rochester. He had the Apaches and a couple Kesslers as well. Just another opportunity for me to meet an awesome older gentleman. I am the better for it.

Bill, I was given the information by a very savvy member. I won't expose him either but maybe he'll chime in. What I gathered by our conversation is that he would snatch one of these Kessler's up in a heart beat if one presented itself & would be willing to pay good money, & would pay the big $ for one as opposed to a mint Sheridan C. He also stated that these were hand built down to the nuts & bolts, & that they were only produced for two years. I am assuming it is this one;

http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/kessler-air-rifle---buffalo-ny---msp--22-cal.html

Do you concur?

[avator]

I made that reply purely from memory... it could have been two years.

[45flint]

Rochester...
After the war there were many small companies that struggled because they no longer had contracts to support the war effort. The Monroe Gasket Co. was one such. They actually commissioned one of Crosman's engineers (kinda shady) to help them design an build gun. This it why it so resembles the 100 series. They produced the Rochester for 1 year, '48/'49. Kessler then bought them out and rebadged them "Kessler" and produced them for 3 more years. Want to dig deeper? Look up the Apache. Check out the slide in barrel caliber change. I almost bought 2 of these when I bought the Rochester. I didn't because the Rochester was in working condition and Apaches need some help.. including finding the slip ins. Sometimes I wonder if I should have snatched them up. I did check later for them and they were gone. There is a member here (he is welcome to expose himself if he wishes) who is the nephew of the older gentleman that sold me the Rochester. He had the Apaches and a couple Kesslers as well. Just another opportunity for me to meet an awesome older gentleman. I am the better for it.

Bill, I was given the information by a very savvy member. I won't expose him either but maybe he'll chime in. What I gathered by our conversation is that he would snatch one of these Kessler's up in a heart beat if one presented itself & would be willing to pay good money, & would pay the big $ for one as opposed to a mint Sheridan C. He also stated that these were hand built down to the nuts & bolts, & that they were only produced for two years. I am assuming it is this one;

http://airgunenthusiast.weebly.com/kessler-air-rifle---buffalo-ny---msp--22-cal.html

Do you concur?

Cool part of the hobby is discovering a rare one that you want and finally finding it. You can always get a "C" but how many have a Kessler? I agree it does look cool. On a quest right now I think all I need is money! Lol. 

[WECSOG]

Ok, let’s see if we can start whittling this ranking down a bit. Let’s try for the top 10 & go from there. These are my pix from what folks have posted with photos & detailed info. You guys that just posted names, if your pix aren’t showing up…better get off you duff.

1. Sheridans; Model “A” Super Grade & Model “B” Sporter.
2. Kessler (I’ll go out on a limb with this one)
3. Benji 392P (Racine Production) “a .22 Sheridan Streak”. Who can argue with that?
4. Sheridan C’s (Pre 1990)
5. Benji 392PA (very early cartridge valve type)
6. Crosman 102

Let the games begin 

That looks reasonable. Your 1 and 2 show that you put more emphasis on collectibility, but the rest of this list shows that utility is important too.
For my No. 6 I would probably choose a Crosman 101. 

[Yng@hrt]

Ok, let’s see if we can start whittling this ranking down a bit. Let’s try for the top 10 & go from there. These are my pix from what folks have posted with photos & detailed info. You guys that just posted names, if your pix aren’t showing up…better get off you duff.

1. Sheridans; Model “A” Super Grade & Model “B” Sporter.
2. Kessler (I’ll go out on a limb with this one)
3. Benji 392P (Racine Production) “a .22 Sheridan Streak”. Who can argue with that?
4. Sheridan C’s (Pre 1990)
5. Benji 392PA (very early cartridge valve type)
6. Crosman 102

Let the games begin 

That looks reasonable. Your 1 and 2 show that you put more emphasis on collectibility, but the rest of this list shows that utility is important too.
For my No. 6 I would probably choose a Crosman 101.

Does anyone else concur with Tracy in that we're good for the top 5?

In addition, should the Crosman 101 be at #6, or any other worthy contenders?

[45flint]

Great, glad everyone agrees with my pix …onward;

 7. Sharp Ace
 8. Benji 342 ('78-up)
 9. Crosman 101
10 Rochester (not sure what that is but sure sounds good)                                                                                                                                                                           

I would make the case the 3, 5, 8 are essentially very similar rifles?  Yes some differences but essentially similar.  The Town and Country is not there? Sharp is way too low?

[Yng@hrt]

I would agree that the Benji 392P & the 392PA are essentially the same but not the 342. So why not lump these two into the same rating? However, I do not think they should be removed from the 3rd spot? Here’s why, & this is solely based on a layman’s point of view but I think its a solid argument; according to Tracy these are essentially Dan’s but in a .22 caliber. I think this speaks volumes for these models.

As for the Benji 342, I’m lost. Here’s where you folks come in. You know far more than me about the rest of the contenders so please come up with the rest of the top 10 list & we’ll see what other member’s views are.

So lets try this, we'll leave the top 4 spots as they are but add the 392PA to the 3rd spot & you folks can come up with the rest of the top 10. The only way this can happen though is if folks start designating numbers for their choices like I have or we'll just have a stalemate & get nowhere.

FWIW, here’s how I approach my selections; I try to imagine walking into a gun show. All of a sudden my name is called over the loud speaker. I am told that I have the lucky number. I am then told to go to a booth with the top 5 pumpers. I am then told I can only make 1 selection, but am eligible for 4 more shows, where I can do the same but that I cannot repeat the same selection. I attend 4 more shows, win, & repeat the same process.
 
Which ones would you guys pick?

[WECSOG]

The 392P and 392PA are not essentially the same gun. The P is basically a classic Streak but in .22, while the PA is like a C9 'Dan but in .22. Traditionalists tend to hate the PA (and C9) because they are Crosmans and use Crosman tech; while modders like the PA and C9 because they are Crosmans and use Crosman tech. Clear as mud?

Late 342s are indeed similar mechanically to the 392P. Early 342s on the other hand are essentially 312s with a better safety, and with the screw-secured pins replaced with roll pins (not a good change, in my book).

Of course if the consensus decides that the 392PA (even the early, walnut stocked ones) are not "vintage" enough, I'm fine with that. I do think the Racine 392P should be on the list, though.

[Yng@hrt]

The 392P and 392PA are not essentially the same gun. The P is basically a classic Streak but in .22, while the PA is like a C9 'Dan but in .22. Traditionalists tend to hate the PA (and C9) because they are Crosmans and use Crosman tech; while modders like the PA and C9 because they are Crosmans and use Crosman tech. Clear as mud?

Late 342s are indeed similar mechanically to the 392P. Early 342s on the other hand are essentially 312s with a better safety, and with the screw-secured pins replaced with roll pins (not a good change, in my book).

Clear as mud Okay, so help me out here; I am a traditionalist as well & the PA just made my hairs stand up. Would you agree that the 392P should remain at #3 or should we make a change, & where do you think the PA & the 342 should be?

Edit; or should the late 342's be lumped with the 392P at #3?

With that I think I'll end this day of fun, past my bed time 

Thanks Tracy!

BTW; nothing here is set in stone. I simply started the top pix to get things going...

[avator]

here is just about everything you need.
http://cinedux.com/