Why Does My New Gun Need A Tune ?

[jusanothajoe]

Received an HW98 from Krale on Wednesday. Beautiful gun !
Cleaned the barrel that night. Removed all the stock screws, degreased them and the holes they screw in.
Thursday torqued all the stock screws and mounted a scope. Torqued the scope mount screws and went outside for test fire.
First cock was smooth, then first shot. TWAAANNNG ! Was expecting this and really thought, hmmm not bad as some.
Started to just shoot some pellets through it, and half way zero scope at the same time. Got it close so I started shooting some groups.
No pellets were really shooting lights out, so after about 50 pellets I checked the stock screws. Loose, loose, loose, all of em. 
Re-torque and start again. When I look through the scope again I notice the reticle has rotated. 
So I go re-align the scope and start over, here is what happened next.
1st shot scope starts to rotate in mounts. 5th shot, stock screws start loosening.
HECK with this ! I don't want to go 2000-3000 shots to try to get this smoothed out. (even then it will not be as smooth as a tuned gun)
Mac1 screw cups ordered. After installing these I have never had forearm screws come loose.
I ordered this gun going in knowing it would have a tune in it's future.
Why do I need a tune on my new gun ?
Because it makes it Smooooth ! Stock screws stop loosening, Scopes stop moving in the mounts.
Makes it all around more enjoyable to shoot.
I sold some nice airguns because I didn't want to spend the money for a tune.
If you have the disposable income, it is worth it. Better yet learn to do it yourself.  (I'm going to try, if I screw it up..... Off to Motorhead !)

[uglymike]

The HWs I've bought shook the wax loose out of my ears when new. I also am unwilling to go months waiting for them to smooth out, it's tune immediately for me.

[Skinard88]

Yep!  I tune ALL my springers as soon as I get them.  Ill put 40 rounds through just to make sure it doesn't need to go back,  And then it goes in the spring compressor.  Tuning is half the FUN of shooting Airguns.
And the Madness goes on.

[Airwoods]

Tuned springers are the way to go.Still remember the day I got my R1 back from its tune and fired that first shot,it was night and day difference.Evrything about how the gun opperated was 110% better than stock.I wanted another springer but wanted one shipped to me already tuned.I don't have the time to learn and tune myself and I didn't want to spend $400+ on a German brand gun then spend another $300+ for a tune just so it doesn't start galling itself when cocking,so I picked up one of mike melicks springers at flying dragon air rifles and am having a lot of fun shooting it but nothing to me feels better than a tuned rekord trigger and will some day when I have the funds will go that route once more.I'm hoping in the near future springers from H&W/beeman will come that way from the manufacture.Crosman is now starting to switch all their springers to nitro pistons so it's a start.

[CraigH]

I suppose this is absolute heresy, perhaps worthy of excommunication, but I don't like springers.   I have only shot one, a Diana 34, and I did not think it pleasant.   Perhaps because I am older and do not like the multi-dimensional recoil which after a while was beginning to bother my cheek.   But the real thing is this, a $500 German air rifle ought to work well out of the box.   There is tuning which is one object, but having to replace the workings of such an air rifle when NIB is to me unacceptable.   JMO    There is a purity and simplicity to springers that is alluring and in moments of weakness I get close to ordering a Weihrauch HW30S, HW50S, or HW85, but then read and study the posts again.   So my next rifle will likely be a BSA or Walther PCP.   Absolutely no offense or objection is intended to other points of view.

[Skinard88]

You don't have to replace all the internals to tune a springer.  A good lube tune will do wanders.
As for gas pistons,  I'm not a fan just because thy cant be tuned up or down in power like you can with a spring.  Unless you get an HW90,  I think that's the one you can change the power on,  correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Thank you for the reality check Joe.
 I have been swooning over a R11/HW98 for some time. I was under the impression that if I spent $500-$700 for a Springer, I would finally get the smooth, easy to control shot cycle I was after. For some misguided reason I thought OUT OF THE BOX it would be immune of all the issues on my sub $200 Springers.

  But the real thing is this, a $500 German air rifle ought to work well out of the box.   There is tuning which is one object, but having to replace the workings of such an air rifle when NIB is to me unacceptable.   JMO   

My first modern Air rifle purchase when I joined was the Hatsan 95 that eveyone suggested. I didn't have it in my hands for a week. When I posted it's issues I was told to take it apart and tune it . "WHAT?, IT"S BRAND NEW?!" and promptly sent it back.
 Now after owning an NP gun, and 2 more Spingers I realize maybe it wasn't so bad... Wait... Yes it was.... I got a lemon. My $100 Kodiak was better right out of the box than that Turk was. 
 If I spent $700+ to get an R11 from Pryamyd and it went "TWAAANNNG ! " then it shook it's cleaned & torqued stock screws loose in 5 shots I would be very, very upset... to say the least.
 
You sir, just saved me a lot of grief.

[Hoosier Daddy]

You don't have to replace all the internals to tune a springer.  A good lube tune will do wanders.

If that is the case, surely they could do that at the factory on these "High End" springers.
I understand a Walmart shelf, mass produced, $150 Gamo /Crosman / Ruger... But a Weihrauch

[jusanothajoe]

I suppose this is absolute heresy, perhaps worthy of excommunication, but I don't like springers.   I have only shot one, a Diana 34, and I did not think it pleasant.   Perhaps because I am older and do not like the multi-dimensional recoil which after a while was beginning to bother my cheek.   But the real thing is this, a $500 German air rifle ought to work well out of the box.   There is tuning which is one object, but having to replace the workings of such an air rifle when NIB is to me unacceptable.   JMO    There is a purity and simplicity to springers that is alluring and in moments of weakness I get close to ordering a Weihrauch HW30S, HW50S, or HW85, but then read and study the posts again.   So my next rifle will likely be a BSA or Walther PCP.   Absolutely no offense or objection is intended to other points of view.

Heresy yes. Excommunication ? we will let you slide on that 
I fully agree, All springers should come new in a tuned state, but they don't. 
The thing I don't get is seems no one has a problem dropping $1000- $2500 on a PCP gun.
But some aren't willing to spend $200-$300 on top of the sales price of a springer, bringing total to $500-$800 for what will be a fine shooting gun ?
I know nothing about PCP, but don't they modify/upgrade those too ? After spending $1000-$2500 new ?  Don't they tune PCP's ?
As with you absolutely no offense meant. Just different point of view 

[CraigH]

A heretic's reply.   

Anyone can spend as much as desired on any genre.   Not much interested in PCP's over a thousand dollars.  As I mentioned, I would like a nice German springer of low to modest power with a nice shot impulse, without "twang", vibration, and all the rest, and not have to replace the spring, the "tophat", or whatever else (I don't know all the springer buzz words), to have a nice smooth operating rifle.   I believe that should be possible.   Sample-to-sample variation seems excessive, with some being very good.   Otherwise, purchase of one of the vendor tuned Chinese rifles seen in posts is as good, maybe better, regarding function.  This last notwithstanding the finer finish of the former air rifles, which I very much appreciate.

Also appreciate the response.   

[Oneshotwillie]

I like GraigH comment, "Anyone can spend as much as desired on any genre.   Not much interested in PCP's over a thousand dollars.  As I mentioned, I would like a nice German springer of low to modest power with a nice shot impulse, without "twang", vibration, and all the rest, and not have to replace the spring, the "tophat", or whatever else (I don't know all the springer buzz words), to have a nice smooth operating rifle.   I believe that should be possible."

I replaced the spring in my HW97K with a QX4600 main spring with a Derlin top hat and guide and did all the required polishing and lube.  Now it is easy to cock, has a smooth shot cycle, and is very accurate!  Add in the open area for inserting pellets it makes it a very top of the line springer.  I guess if a manufacturer did all this it would add even more to the cost of the intial cost.  It would also take away the fun of tearing into the gun and modifying it! Is'nt life great!!!

[39M]

Maybe they should offer a premium tune rifle.
But I guess that would be admitting that they might need a tune to begin with.


Against all recommendations, or most at least, I still want another cheap plastic springer(or in this case, an NP) to play around with and maybe paint.
I'm thinking the Crosman NP .22 from that tractor place.

I figure about 700 fps with regular pellets. 43" long and about six and a half pounds.

I'd chop four inches off the barrel and then get one of those mac1 ldc's that you heat to install. Then replace the recoil pad with a plate to shorten the LOP. And that should make for a nice little knockabout size, at around 41.5 inches.
Enough power for rabbit, squirrel, and collared dove out to thirty or forty yards. And maybe even small predators from a bit shorter range.

Oh...and  I guess I'd have to tune the trigger.

[Doug Wall]

I also don't understand why airgun manufacturers don't use proper lubes on springs and pistons. I have yet to see a gun that doesn't stop twanging with proper lubes. That and a little blue Loctite on the stock screws, and things should be much better.

[SteveP-52]

Buy an HW95 in whichever caliber you choose and arrange ahead of time to have it shipped to Motorhead being he's close to you to do a simple tune and lube, then send it on to you and save some on the back and forth shipping. Mine in .22 and untouched shoots about 14.6 fpe and has very little recoil so a tuned version by Scott to shoot anywhere from 12 to 14 fpe at least in my mind would likely do the trick towards helping you enjoy shooting a springer.

That being said here's my own heresy, my apologies in advance to any feathers ruffled, toes stepped on or the air gun "snobs" who think I'm foolish for refusing to tune the HW95 .22 I own.
I have felt absolutely no need to tune the rifle. Did it twang right out of the box? Yes and over the course of close to 1200 shots that twang has faded away. I also freely admit that when I had some spare cash, I bought a Vortek PG2 kit but I bought it for that point in the future where the factory spring finally gives up the ghost and actually needs to be replaced. To add to my heresy, I did not buy the kit that will turn my rifle into a meek and mild 12 fpe or less rifle. I bought the high power kit which will turn it into an 18 fpe shooter and yep, I can already hear the gasps and mutterings of those saying heathen!!..blasphemer!!..ban the heretic!!!.
I've had to replace a front trigger guard screw. When it worked itself loose and ran away I have no idea but it's been the only thing I HAD to do to the rifle. I didn't need to but from reading and recommendations on the forum, I did add a set of Mac1 screw cups. Those front stock screws weren't loose, never had been and again, I did not need to but did anyway. To add even more blasphemy, I have also never touched the trigger
My 95 is also the first rifle I've mounted a scope on with 50 or less shots on it and I've never had any issues with that scope. For that matter, I've never had issues with any of the 19 scopes I have on springers or gas rams and most of those rifles recoil way harder than my HW does. Not a single one of those 19 scopes has ever slid backwards in the dovetails, slid backward in the rings and not a single one, even the cheap Centerpoints I have on 2 rifles has ever turned or even started to turn in the rings.
I suppose I'll sit here now and wait for my stoning, flogging and eventual banishment for my heretical and blaspheming ways

[39M]

I feel the need for speed!

I'd get the jumbo spring for that 95 too. If you want 12 fpe, get the 50. The 95 is the right size for a mild boost in performance.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Steve... you should buy a lottery ticket.

[SteveP-52]

Against all recommendations, or most at least, I still want another cheap plastic springer(or in this case, an NP) to play around with and maybe paint.
I'm thinking the Crosman NP .22 from that tractor place.

I figure about 700 fps with regular pellets. 43" long and about six and a half pounds.

I'd chop four inches off the barrel and then get one of those mac1 ldc's that you heat to install. Then replace the recoil pad with a plate to shorten the LOP. And that should make for a nice little knockabout size, at around 41.5 inches.
Enough power for rabbit, squirrel, and collared dove out to thirty or forty yards. And maybe even small predators from a bit shorter range.

Oh...and  I guess I'd have to tune the trigger.

I know the tractor place is local but you might consider a Hatsan Edge Vortex, $99.99 from PA. Stock out of the box weighs 6.6 pounds, 43 inches long, in .22 with FTT's shoots 750ish. Stock can be stuffed with things you already have laying around your shop and is paintable, I've done a couple. The trigger with a little polishing and a .23 cent screw from the hardware store can be made better and unlike the Crosman, you don't need to replace the lousy barrel pivot washers with brass ones. I own 4, 3 with the Vortex gas rams and one with a spring..nice little rifles for not a lot of money.

https://www.pyramydair.com/product/hatsan-edge-air-rifle-vortex-piston-black?m=3724

Steve... you should buy a lottery ticket.

I used to but stopped cuz I never win more than a buck or 2 or a free play...lol

[AGEnthused]

The last couple of springers I purchased I intended to deburr, and lube. My RAM had a horrible piston seal, cuts and gouges everywhere. I have replaced it with a vortek piston seal. And unlike the factory guys I took my time and carefully put rifle back together and lightly lubed every surface with sliding metal to metal contact. Chinese springers are relatively cheap, German made stuff not so much. I reference my conversation with Mike Melick often on this forum. German made airguns can have tolerance issues from rifle to rifle. Overall I think most of us on this forum could benefit from tuning or having our rifles tuned.

[anti-squirrel]

I just don't see where I should have to buy a gun and immediately rip it apart and lube it properly in order to get it shooting the way it should. 

I like things working from the factory.  My B-3 underlever shoots with twang and harshness, for for $50, I expect that.  $350 or more a nice German springer that doesn't have much better manners is just a foil to my fun, nice trigger not withstanding.  Don't get me wrong, they can be beautiful, but as I've said elsewhere, I shoot my airguns, I don't fondle and stare at them.  And a pricier gun that needs work to make it shoot comfortably just isn't in my grand plan. 

[lefteyeshot]

I don't have to have a gun tuned. I may want to? If the reticle rotated it might be broke. Twang in and of itself doesn't cause me to miss. I'd pull a bore snake thru the barrel now and then. A scope stop, thread lock, trigger adjustment? Shoot one of my tac drivers to make sure it's not me. Work on my hold. Relax, then relax some more. Kill some paint balls or wine bottle corks. Maybe some zen instead of heresy. This is fun stuff.