Which big bore should I buy?

[melloroadman]

Your shoot count will not double . For the range you are talking you will get about 2 extra good shoots . Then the hold over even with a mill dot scope gets out of line IMO for paper work . 35-50 yards then you might get 3 -4 more good shoots . But that is a stretch and then if the wind comes up it is a no . Not only will the poi shift down but it will shift to the right as the fps drops . The longer the distance the more it will show up . It is a real issue to deal with for paper work . Hunting a group of 2-3 inch's at 50-60 yards ok the animal is still hit in the kill zone . Those rifles are called light hunters for a good reason . The lower your psi gets the more air you use . So I doubt that hand pumping a dual tube over a single tube would have that much of a difference .
The 909 is longer, heavier, and no adjustable trigger . Bigger bleed hold for hunting yes but the difference in energy between the 909 and the 201 is really not a issue . If you want go to photo bucket and do a search for melloroadman . It will say not found did you want a user by the name of melloroadman . Say yes and my albums will come up . I have a album for all my rifle chrony reading there so you can compare .Marvin

[Tad]

Marvin, Many thanks.  You've provided me with quite a bit of insight.  I have noticed when my disco is low on air the POI drops and seemed to go a bit sideways (thought it was me), so even that observation is a help.

And you have brought some rationality to my thinking.

[melloroadman]

Just remember you are buying a hunting rifle to use as a target rifle . And there is a difference . As long as you are aware of these things you should be happy . I doubt that I will buy another Korean rifle for paper work . They can be made to do the job very well . But they are the hardest rifles I have found to work on or to modify . There is no such thing as field dress a Korean BB . Marvin

[woodland]

Hi Melloroadman,

you wrote; "By the way my 201 has a adjustable trigger"
I have a 202 but can't find anything to adjust.
Did i miss something or did you made something so it is adjustable now..
i like to have the same feature.

thx
woodland

[Nomadic Pirate]

If target shooting is all you wanna do I would seriously consider the SUMATRA .25 the feel of a big bore without all the Big Bore drawbacks.

Exceptional accuracy at longer distances, cheaper ammo, lots of shots for fill, 6 shots repeter, cool looking gun, and at 90 FPE if ever want to take her hunting she'll drop a big pig with a headshot no problem

[Butcher45]

If target shooting is all you wanna do I would seriously consider the SUMATRA .25 the feel of a big bore without all the Big Bore drawbacks.

Exceptional accuracy at longer distances, cheaper ammo, lots of shots for fill, 6 shots repeter, cool looking gun, and at 90 FPE if ever want to take her hunting she'll drop a big pig with a headshot no problem

I agree with NP.  You will get a whole lot more shots with the .25, that shoot really flat and make a respectable boom.

Now if you a bit more power just for the power, which is great fun with heavy iron/steel spinners at 100+yards, a .357 Corsair, a tuned 2tube SamYang Recluse .357, or even a 909 "light hunter" shooting lighter-weight ammo would be a good way to go.  If just shooting targets definitely go .357 as it will shoot the flattest, hit hard, and the boolit selection in that caliber is just awesome.

For hunting the power-tuned 909 light hunter has pretty good power for up to deer at 50 yards, and I get 4-5 shots within about 10-20fps maximum variance off of a fill of air.  I can and do shoot nice groups without changing my POA with a variety of slugs 154-260+grains.  
When I say "nice groups" I mean to say that I get 3-4 shot 50 yard groups that are under an inch center to center when shooting off of steady stix using a few different designs of slug.  Not once and a while, but consistently.  I have a stock 909 here that displays the same accuracy, and WillP has shot some groups right at MOA@100yards with his 909S shooting EPP/UG's (re-filling each shot) so the Korean bigbore airgun barrels are good barrels.

My tuned 909 has seen a lot of lead, and several species of game over the last several years.  I just recently received what I believe to be the last 909 cocking lever I will ever need (for this 909) after months of development.

[melloroadman]

It has been a long time since I adjusted the trigger on the 201 . And I do not know if the 202 is the same . What you are doing is adjusting the depth that the sear engages into the hammer so care must be taken . You have to remove the trigger unit. And I did install a lighter return spring while I was there . If my memory is right on one end of the unit there is a set screw with a lock nut . I believe it is on the muzzle end of the unit . By adjusting it you are setting how deep the unit will set down in the receiver . Care must be taken or you will end up with a un safe rifle . If you are not qualified to do this then don't . Make sure the rifle will pass the safety test on full and low power . I am not responsible for your actions . You are . Caution must be taken when ever trigger work is done . Marvin

[woodland]

Thx Melloroadman,

i fully understand what you mean on safety and responsibility.
It is good of you to mention.   My grey hair stands for something i may hope.

I have adjusted many types of triggers but for a new gun to me i have the Modesty to ask if someone has a bright view...you have. thx This is a vision i can get along with.

I have seen guys advice to cut a piece off the top, but that is a to simple, dangerous and irreversible approach.
I am never to old to learn.

thx again
woodland

[melloroadman]

[Tad]

Great stuff.  Exactly the advice I am looking for.

The Sumatra was on my short list, before I bought the Disco.  I decided that the Disco was decidedly more mainstream, and made more sense for my first adult AG purchase.  i would have gotten the Disco in .25 if it was available.

Pirate-You say 90fpe and your Sumatras are not tuned.  Most reviews say about 50 fpe.  Are you really getting that kind of power?

I know none of the bigger bores make any sense for what I want to do.  It's an irrational desire, an obsession.  Believe me, you guys gently pointing that out does really help me.

These obsessions usually burn out in me after a few months.  The only good thing is that I read absolutely everything I can find on my object of obsession, and I've learned an awful lot in the last few months.

Butcher-Melloroadman says that you have gone trough a number of bolts on your 909 guns, and that this might be a big problem on the Recluse and Claw if you shoot a lot.  Should I be concerned about this with heavy target use?

I've already ratcheted my "have to have" from a Claw to a Light Hunter, to one of the 9 mm guns.  I'm not hunting so I don't really need the power, I'm just having a hard time convincing the reptilian part of my brain that this is so.  What's helping is that I have convinced myself that I want a dual tube unit.  Since they are not yet available, I have a month to straighten my head out.

Will I ever be happy with pumping for 5 minutes to get maybe 6 shots of declining FPS?  I don't know.  Somewhere in my brain a lizard tongue must flicking against the sensible bits.

Thanks again, you guys are better than therapy.  Then again, I sense some enabling going on

[Nomadic Pirate]

50 FPE on Sumatra .25 ?...I really belive you might be reading the wrong reviews, 85-90 FPE is normal, with extra heavy ammo 100 FPE has being reported

[woodland]

Hi,

as for the allen screw..... it  is for the adjustable safetycache

The trigger is non-adjustable maybe except for a lighter spring.
pitty that is, thx anyway for the reply.

i'll see what a lighter spring can do.

regards
woodland

[Butcher45]

Butcher-Melloroadman says that you have gone trough a number of bolts on your 909 guns, and that this might be a big problem on the Recluse and Claw if you shoot a lot.  Should I be concerned about this with heavy target use?

It could be a problem even with a stock spring.  The stock spring in mine was modified, so it is a little harder to cock than a regular 909.  The last lever I got that was made by SamYang did look a bit beefier than the 909 levers I have received in the past, so maybe SamYang is listening?

After working on a few prototypes with Dave Darnell, I think I finally got a really strong cocking lever that should last forever.  

Getting a foster fill adapter for airing-up is also highly recommended.

[Dan H]

save up some more money and buy the xp-airguns ranger 45 , it will be worth every penny you spend , i have a 909 tuned and the xp-ranger 45  ,trust me  the 909 in my opinion  is a toy compared to the ranger , you pay for what you get when it comes to big bores , the ranger has true fire arm power , you will love it !

[Butcher45]

save up some more money and buy the xp-airguns ranger 45 , it will be worth every penny you spend , i have a 909 tuned and the xp-ranger 45  ,trust me  the 909 in my opinion  is a toy compared to the ranger , you pay for what you get when it comes to big bores , the ranger has true fire arm power , you will love it !

For what he wants/needs, a .357 Corsair with the right spring set-up makes a lot more sense than the .45Ranger.  Remember that he is using a hand pump, is not hunting, and wants a practical shot count for target shooting.

The Corsair, and tuned Korean guns are great go-to rifles for everyday-play at HillPump fill pressures.  They are in fact "toys" compared to the .45Ranger, but think about it....... isn't a toy just what Tad is looking for? 

A 250grain  WFN slug out of a tuned SamYang WILL bring a smile to your face when it smacks the steel spinner at 100+yards guaranteed, and there is a lot of dirt cheap .45/.357 plinking ammo available in a variety of weights/nose profiles.

[melloroadman]

Woodland there is either a difference between the 201 and the 202 or a difference in opinion about the allen screw . I do know that the head gun smith at PA  and 2 tuners that I have spoken too have all stated that that is what the screw is for . I do know it made a difference in my trigger pull as well . After speaking to them about the trigger pull is when they all told me how to adjust it . It worked on my rifle is all that I can say .Marvin

[woodland]

He melloroad,

Then there must be a difference then between the 201s and the 202s;

 it's not an issue of any kind. I a preciate your comments.

I screwed the allen screw in & out and the only thing happened was the stiffness of the safetycath.
It does not touch/move anything else.
I am glad you mentioned the spring i did something with that as well.

read in the fire 202s Sovereign

regards
woodland

[melloroadman]

I think you are missing the point here . The allen screw does not move any trigger parts . Re read my post . When you screw the allen out it keeps the trigger unit from going into the receiver as deep . It does not keep the sear from moving in the trigger unit as deep . Works the same way as placing a shim between the air tube and the trigger unit . But it is the way the factory made it to work so a shim would not need to be used . And it only takes a small adjustment to change the pull. No sear alterations are needed . There again this is on a 201 . And I am not responsible for any ones actions other than my own . If in doubt don't do it . Marvin

[Tad]

Pirate-I'm taking a second look at the Sumatra.  It really fits me better than the bigger calibers, but doesn't have the wow factor of the bigger bores.

You are right about the power.  It's a little less power than I would like, but the high velocity is intriguing.

 

[Nomadic Pirate]

Once you shoot it, you'll go "Wow"