PP700 adventure started(Artemis PP700s-a)

[sawtoothscream]

Received my scope and the gun is in NJ.     

Think it will take some time to get use to the pistol scope.  Kind of hard to see the cross hairs but might have to play With it some.     

[bandg]

Yeah, they are quite different from rifle scopes and will probably never be as easy to use.  I had not used many pistol scopes over the years but have shot pistols since I was big enough to hold one up.  I really like one I have on the pp700.  You have to move the scope in and out to find the eye relief range and try to determine the mid point of that range and then mount it to match your shooting position as closely as possible.  I generally shoot a handgun with arms relatively extended but others like them bent more.  I like the UTG 1.25-4x32 I have on my pp700 because it has a really long eye relief range (over 12 inches of usable range) and is sharp and clear but it is relatively large and relatively heavy for a pistol scope-smaller and lighter is available.  Enjoy yours when you get it together.

[sawtoothscream]

If I don't like it is was cheap at least.   Have a red dot I used on my 2240 and killed a pile of pests and squirrels with that.    Wish I could shoot scopes both eyes open

[bandg]

Had an unusual issue with the pp700 today that may affect others.  The two long screws that hold the aluminum handle frame to the body of the pistol are not blind drilled-they are drilled into the hammer pin channel.  I had a tough time getting my hammer pin back in after doing some more valve work today until in noticed that those screws were actually penetrating into the channel that the hammer pin fits in.  What changed from my initial disassembly to this point is uncertain but the first time I took it down the screws weren't really tight and the hammer pin came out very easily.  But today if the screws were tightened first and then the hammer pin was placed the pin would hit the end of the screw.  If I put the hammer pin in first and then tightened the screws they jammed the hammer pin.   All I can think of is there was just enough wear under the screw head to allow it to go in a little deeper or maybe some casting flash had been holding the handle frame a little high off the pistol body.  In any event, the issue is potentially there and could cause a problem for anyone working on the pistol.  I ended up taking a few thousandths off the end of the two long screws to solve the problem.

On a better note, I had drilled the valve spring adjusting cup/screw out a bit to improve flow (thanks to Rallyshark for the idea) and had made a lighter valve spring a few weeks back.  Apparently, I went a little too light on the preload for the new valve spring because the pistol vented all air about halfway through the charge (around 110 bar)-the hammer spring pressure was holding the stem in.   I took the valve back out and tightened the cup/screw a few turns until the stem would just compress fully into the valve body (no coil bind).   Results were consistent 930-940 fps with AA 7.33 gr. Falcons.  I shot it down to just about 80 bar when the air vented again.  Seems to be a very good balance of valve spring and hammer spring at this point.  Didn't think to monitor shot count since that isn't really a concern for me but it must have been better than 30.  It shot several bughole groups at 15 yards with groups staying under an inch out to 30 yards.  I'm more than happy with this pistol at this performance level.  Still looking at the HW44 as well but their price is now a little steep.

[Wayne52]

I got a little Ghog with mine today

[sawtoothscream]

I got a little Ghog with mine today

Doing work with yours.         Can't wait for mine to arrive.   

[Rallyshark]

Had an unusual issue with the pp700 today that may affect others.  The two long screws that hold the aluminum handle frame to the body of the pistol are not blind drilled-they are drilled into the hammer pin channel.  I had a tough time getting my hammer pin back in after doing some more valve work today until in noticed that those screws were actually penetrating into the channel that the hammer pin fits in.  What changed from my initial disassembly to this point is uncertain but the first time I took it down the screws weren't really tight and the hammer pin came out very easily.  But today if the screws were tightened first and then the hammer pin was placed the pin would hit the end of the screw.  If I put the hammer pin in first and then tightened the screws they jammed the hammer pin.   All I can think of is there was just enough wear under the screw head to allow it to go in a little deeper or maybe some casting flash had been holding the handle frame a little high off the pistol body.  In any event, the issue is potentially there and could cause a problem for anyone working on the pistol.  I ended up taking a few thousandths off the end of the two long screws to solve the problem.

On a better note, I had drilled the valve spring adjusting cup/screw out a bit to improve flow (thanks to Rallyshark for the idea) and had made a lighter valve spring a few weeks back.  Apparently, I went a little too light on the preload for the new valve spring because the pistol vented all air about halfway through the charge (around 110 bar)-the hammer spring pressure was holding the stem in.   I took the valve back out and tightened the cup/screw a few turns until the stem would just compress fully into the valve body (no coil bind).   Results were consistent 930-940 fps with AA 7.33 gr. Falcons.  I shot it down to just about 80 bar when the air vented again.  Seems to be a very good balance of valve spring and hammer spring at this point.  Didn't think to monitor shot count since that isn't really a concern for me but it must have been better than 30.  It shot several bughole groups at 15 yards with groups staying under an inch out to 30 yards.  I'm more than happy with this pistol at this performance level.  Still looking at the HW44 as well but their price is now a little steep.

Sounds like you have that little pistol cooking now, nice work!  What were the results of the opening up the adjusting screw for the valve spring vs before??  I've been wanting to know the difference from doing just that mod for a while now.  Fyi, I also leaned the hard way about having a weak valve spring a while back.  I currently have mine tightened pretty much all the way in now.  Since I have my gun capable of making all the power I need, I can only gain efficiency with a tight valve spring   Of course, I've never really liked a weak valve spring anyway.  The amount of difference it makes on cracking the valve isn't as much as people would think, since the air pressure affects that much more.  It does start to matter more when you get to the low pressures though. 

I've not had that problem with the screws pinning the hammer myself.  Like you mentioned, the fix should be pretty easy if it does happen.

[nervoustrigger]

Had an unusual issue with the pp700 today that may affect others.  The two long screws that hold the aluminum handle frame to the body of the pistol are not blind drilled-they are drilled into the hammer pin channel.  I had a tough time getting my hammer pin back in after doing some more valve work today until in noticed that those screws were actually penetrating into the channel that the hammer pin fits in.

Mine was the same way and I saw at least one other report of it.  Either the counterbore is too deep or the screws they used are too long.  I could see a slight gap indicating the handle was not pulling up tight.

A little tip for anyone else experiencing this issue, it's easy enough to take a little off the end of the screw with a file.  Thread on a nut before you start, then when you are done with the filing, remove the nut and it will help clean up the leading thread.

[Bizill]

Had an unusual issue with the pp700 today that may affect others.  The two long screws that hold the aluminum handle frame to the body of the pistol are not blind drilled-they are drilled into the hammer pin channel.  I had a tough time getting my hammer pin back in after doing some more valve work today until in noticed that those screws were actually penetrating into the channel that the hammer pin fits in.  What changed from my initial disassembly to this point is uncertain but the first time I took it down the screws weren't really tight and the hammer pin came out very easily.  But today if the screws were tightened first and then the hammer pin was placed the pin would hit the end of the screw.  If I put the hammer pin in first and then tightened the screws they jammed the hammer pin.   All I can think of is there was just enough wear under the screw head to allow it to go in a little deeper or maybe some casting flash had been holding the handle frame a little high off the pistol body.  In any event, the issue is potentially there and could cause a problem for anyone working on the pistol.  I ended up taking a few thousandths off the end of the two long screws to solve the problem.

On a better note, I had drilled the valve spring adjusting cup/screw out a bit to improve flow (thanks to Rallyshark for the idea) and had made a lighter valve spring a few weeks back.  Apparently, I went a little too light on the preload for the new valve spring because the pistol vented all air about halfway through the charge (around 110 bar)-the hammer spring pressure was holding the stem in.   I took the valve back out and tightened the cup/screw a few turns until the stem would just compress fully into the valve body (no coil bind).   Results were consistent 930-940 fps with AA 7.33 gr. Falcons.  I shot it down to just about 80 bar when the air vented again.  Seems to be a very good balance of valve spring and hammer spring at this point.  Didn't think to monitor shot count since that isn't really a concern for me but it must have been better than 30.  It shot several bughole groups at 15 yards with groups staying under an inch out to 30 yards.  I'm more than happy with this pistol at this performance level.  Still looking at the HW44 as well but their price is now a little steep.

Had my AG a few days now and finally dismantled her today.  I ran into this "problem" upon reassembly.  Actually, in hindsight, ran into this problem upon disassembly.  All other pins are easily pushed out.  But the hammer retaining pin I had to break out the punch for.  Now I know why because when I had the gun apart, the hammer retaining pin moved in and out without any effort and when I reassembled I realized the pin was hitting the bolts as I could see them threaded into the pin's channel.  So what I figure is that they REALLY don't want that pin working its way out on its own so the bolts are there to hold the pin captive.  Yes?  No? 

Anyway, my .177 Aceros Zasdar came factory hitting Crosman 10.5 pellets @ 648fps and this thing is loud.  Louder for sure than my CP-1M Co2 pistol for obvious reasons.  So I had my cnc guy at my work whip me up an adapter for my Sumo LDC so I could actualy use my purchase.  No way I can use this in my backyard, nor my CP-1M sans LDC.  Anyway, with my CP-1M the Sumo tames the baby beast no problem and sounds like my flutulating arse.  But my Zasdar PP700 has a LOUD "pop" when I shoot it with a pellet, even using an LDC.  Backpressure coming out of the breach block seal for sure.  Without a pellet I placed some toilet paper over the breach block area and it blew it really hard so I'm sure with a pellet it'll really whip that toilet paper around.

I think I read earlier ya'll are shimming things as there is no tightening the valve any further as it's already bottomed out.  I know my Sumo can tame this pcp pistol but I cannot overcome this "POP" when I shoot it and is not backyard friendly for me, even with LDC.  I suppose I can try having a shim cut on our laser at work to fit between the valve end with the 4 holes for screwing, or I guess I could try shimming the barrel receiving nut so that the o-ring sticks backward just a hair to make a better seal with the breach block. Or are these pipe dreams?  I don't see any way of getting rid of this pop.

Any suggestions, fellas?  While I had her apart I did decide to drill and tap for a grub screw to hold the barrel receiving nut still.  Screwing my Sumo on and off multiple times drove me nuts as the barrel would spin and spin and spin.  Problem solved on that problem.  I only placed a grub screw/set screw on one side and may go in and do both sides for symmetry as screwing on the barrel I did encounter some amount of resistance due to just barely making the barrel retaining nut a bit non-concentric.  But it's pretty much fine with just one grub screw.

[nervoustrigger]

Out of the box, mine was just blowing air out the end of the barrel after the pellet was gone.  Too much hammer strike.

Have you already backed off the hammer spring?  Do that until the velocity just begins to fall and it will operate more efficiently...quieter and more shots per fill.   With an LDC like that, backyard friendly should not be a problem

[Bizill]

I backed off hammer spring from my Crosman 10.5 @ 648fps down to 578fps with no discernible difference to my ears.  Perhaps there is something else I'm missing.  Does anyone else with or without an LDC have themselves a nice loud "POP"?

[nervoustrigger]

Ah, okay.  You may be right about it being the breech block blowby that is producing the pop.

[Bizill]

Yeah, and loud enough so that I will not be able to use my new purchase unless I can address the issue. 

[Rallyshark]

You can fix that breech seal a couple of ways.  You can put a shim behind the transfer block on the valve and that will push the block forward and improve the seal.  You can also take some material off of the muzzle end of the valve itself, which will allow you to screw the valve in a little more.  That will make the fit tighter with the transfer block.  Both methods are pretty easy.  I took some material off the the valve itself.  It only took about 1mm to get it to screw in far enough for a good seal.  I just used sand paper laying flat on a table, and rubbed the muzzle end of the valve on it in a circular motion until enough material had be taken off.  Of course, I finished it off with some very fine grit paper.  The good thing about this method is that you have quite a bit of wiggle room, even if you take off "too much".  The seals are well behind the front of the valve body, so you can simply screw it back out to fit as needed, then tighten tighten the little locking screw.  I've yet to have leaks or have to replace the breech seal

[Bizill]

Yeah, I tried that earlier when I had it apart but probably took off less than 2 thousandths, lol.  I used 1000 grit dry sand paper and got nowhere with the stainless valve.  Moved down to 100 grit and went lightly on a flat countertop and it didn't take off much of anything.  Then I finished it off with 1000 grit again.  Basically I need to go at it again and really take off some material.  There isn't much lip holding that last O-ring to begin with but there's just a pubic hair amount that you can get away with, then it'll seal a bit better.  My breach o-ring just barely protrudes bast the breach block as it is.  I almost see shaving down the valve making it so that the breach block aluminun hits the breach aluminum and hardly any extra sealing will be accomplished but perhaps 1 mm is all it'll take.

[bandg]

I don't think the screws are designed to locate the hammer pin-too difficult to set that depth and allow the frame to tighten adequately at the same time.  Just an oversight in screw length I believe but as noted easily fixed.  Donny, I did't do an isolated change to the valve spring cup so I can't speak to it as an independent factor but everything done has been moving velocity up so it probably did help.  As to the valve spring you are probably right as you and others have done more work with it than I have by far.  My thinking is simply to balance hammer spring and valve opening as much as possible to keep hammer spring pressure as low as possible since it impacts trigger pull so I thought I'd try it that way.  I'm not really concerned with efficiency in terms of maximizing number of shots per charge as much as stability in terms of first shot to first few shots consistency.  I would prefer to top off after 10 shots if it meant that my first shot and the tenth were the same-better for my type shooting.  Plus I can always go back to the stock valve spring or even a heavier one could be tried but the point I've reached seems pretty good for the moment for my type shooting.  We'll see how stable it stays over the next few uses.

Another thing I changed just for convenience.  My hammer spring adjuster was screwed in pretty far and getting harder to get a tool on to turn so I made a thick shim and placed it at the top of the hammer strut to allow that adjuster to be backed out some.  It did make it easier to adjust the hammer spring tension but it it does add a little weight to the hammer mechanism.  It didn't seem to change lock time perceptibly but I think I may move it to the bottom inside the spring adjuster.

Last night I ordered a bunch of 0-rings of various sizes to experiment with putting a thicker o-ring at the breech seal location.  My thinking is to face back the barrel bushing (assuming that I can order another stock one from SPA or maybe make one out of aluminum round stock for this purpose) to allow a roughly 3mm thick o-ring to be placed there which would start from the existing outer edge of the barrel channel as the stock o-ring does but then extend across to seal on the barrel surface itself.  It seems like a wider 0-ring would inherently seal better against the breech block but I wonder if there might be a sealing issue with the thread area on the barrel.  Any thoughts on this?  And if anyone with a lathe could make an aluminum piece for this with outer diameter matching the barrel bushing outer and threaded inner diameter of the stock barrel threads then I would do the fitting and provide results and proper o-ring size if successful.  Any takers?

[sawtoothscream]

It's here!!!  Even though I'm a little shaky from preworkout and doing g a bunch of pullups and pushups it looks promising at 10 yds.    Going to play with the scope mount still. Not sure if I'm going to use the current one on it.
 

[sawtoothscream]

Meh guess I'll have to go o. The laptop to post pics

[sawtoothscream]

Decided against a ldc as well.    This is fine for shooting in my basement, just not at night.   It will mostly be a hunter and ny is very sketchy with the whole airguns with LDC on them.     Shame because it would make this gun sweet.

[aluminumfetish]

I have scoped and unscoped mine a dozen times. It really is sweet all naked and pure. Enjoy it !