Water removal recommendations for Shoebox compressor?

[chwillbill68]

I did the first run tonight . From 3700 psi to 4400 psi it took 1hr 8 minutes. No water from the 2x bleed on the Alpha filter but upon disconnection, I noticed oil spurting out of the high output nozzle and also on the fill nipple of the Alpha filter. I think I have to buy the $70 gold filter with the cotton inside  just to absorb the oil .Im actually happy on the run time except the OIL spurting part. I emailed Carole right away and she replied in minutes that it is normal.

Mine should be here tomorrow!   Where do you thing the oil is coming from?  The shoebox?

Thanks Bill C!

[Trigger_Finger]

It's coming from the Silicon oil lubrication that you apply to the pistons.

[Trigger_Finger]

Because oil will eventually reached the Alpha Filter or maybe it already has but I need to stop it so I ordered this to absorb the oil and water before it gets to the Alpha Filter.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-30mpa-High-Pressure-Paintball-Refilling-Air-Pump-Spare-Parts/32824136159.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.tuIfFh

[Taso1000]

There was actually a thread on the oil coming out of the Shoebox compressor.  I will have to search to find it.  It is the silicone oil from the new felt wipers and was coming out black.  As far as I can recall there was not a decisive solution for maintaining the silicone oil wipers or going back to lithium grease.  I think I had suggested ultimox grease but nothing was brought to consensus.

Silicone oil does have an auto ignition point and ultimox doesn't.  I don't remember if the flash point was high enough to not matter but like I said it was not discussed further.

Taso

[Taso1000]

I found the thread I was referencing.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130000.0

Taso

[Trigger_Finger]

There was actually a thread on the oil coming out of the Shoebox compressor.  I will have to search to find it.  It is the silicone oil from the new felt wipers and was coming out black.  As far as I can recall there was not a decisive solution for maintaining the silicone oil wipers or going back to lithium grease.  I think I had suggested ultimox grease but nothing was brought to consensus.

Silicone oil does have an auto ignition point and ultimox doesn't.  I don't remember if the flash point was high enough to not matter but like I said it was not discussed further.

Taso

When I saw the oil,  I thought wow explosion!. Scared  me and emailed  Carole Kaye right away . Their email response is so fast. At first I got confused since I have an oil less compressor and wondered how the Silicon got into the system.i may have put too much silicone on the felt pads?

[Trigger_Finger]

I found the thread I was referencing.

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130000.0

Taso

Taso thanks for the thread.

[Taso1000]

Alfonso,

I think a grease may be better at eliminating the blow by silicon oil.  Ultimox does not have a flash point.  But the Silicone oil flash point may be high enough to not be an issue.  When reading through the threads someone was using silicone grease.  I don't know if that is an ideal lubricant but grease will reduce migration. 

I think a grease that provides adequate lubrication and will not flash may be the best solution.  I would then nominate  ultimox or Krytox grease.  Whichever is cheaper and does the job. 

Taso

[Taso1000]

I forgot to add.  Ultimox or Krytox grease will be a superior lubricant to Silicone grease.

Taso

[Trigger_Finger]

I forgot to add.  Ultimox or Krytox grease will be a superior lubricant to Silicone grease.

Taso

Krytox/Ultimox price check

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Ultimox+

[Trigger_Finger]

I don't mind opening the shoebox and applying grease every 2 hrs.
Did someone find out what is the best vibration timer for the SB?

[chwillbill68]

Wow that is scary!  What did shoebox say about the oil coming out. Did you ask about using grease?  I will check that other thread out.   I have read and followed 3 or 4 threads on the shoebox compressors and none of them ever said anything about the lube from the shoebox coming out. Surly they all must have fixed it some how.  Mine should be here today!  Think I might wait to see what you hear from them about it.  I will look for one of those filters also.

Thanks Bill C!

[Trigger_Finger]

Wow that is scary!  What did shoebox say about the oil coming out. Did you ask about using grease?  I will check that other thread out.   I have read and followed 3 or 4 threads on the shoebox compressors and none of them ever said anything about the lube from the shoebox coming out. Surly they all must have fixed it some how.  Mine should be here today!  Think I might wait to see what you hear from them about it.  I will look for one of those filters also.

Thanks Bill C!

Bill I suggest this one for the output side or the gold filter or the more expensive automatic oil water drain /  separator like on the Carette. .

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/0-30mpa-High-Pressure-Paintball-Refilling-Air-Pump-Spare-Parts/32824136159.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.tuIfFh

[chwillbill68]

Wow that is scary!  What did shoebox say about the oil coming out. Did you ask about using grease?  I will check that other thread out.   I have read and followed 3 or 4 threads on the shoebox compressors and none of them ever said anything about the lube from the shoebox coming out. Surly they all must have fixed it some how.  Mine should be here today!  Think I might wait to see what you hear from them about it.  I will look for one of those filters also.

Thanks Bill C!

Bill I suggest this one for the output side or the gold filter or the more expensive automatic oil water drain /  separator like on the Carette. .

I have the gold filter with the hack I use on my yong hen, but want to stop the old before it gets to the gold filter, so I like you idea of the small filter that comes with the yong hen. I will see if I can find that kit like you found on ebay, easyer for me to buy from there.

[FuzzyGrub]

I had upgraded my max for the silicone oil wipers, like what is used on current production.   It is easy to over oil them, and/or forget to on the longer interval.  I did start to get some silicone oil on bleeding, so added a mini-gold filter.  No oil has reached the cotton input filter. 

I have pulled both wicks and gone back to lithium grease.  I grease them just prior to each fill.  I only run for an hour, two if I'm filling two tanks.  Lithium was the mfg recommended lube prior to the silicone wicks.  I would not use regular silicon grease.  That is probably too thick and will not reach the inner o-ring.  The high end lubes may work fine. 

My vibration hour meter is not working, even on the most sensitive of settings.  I thought the sewing machine motion would be more than enough.  I have only tried it mounted on top of the chassis,  parallel with the long axis.  I need to try it rotated 90 degrees, or see if there is a spot on the 1/3hp motor to try. 

PS: If using the wicks only add a few drops per the schedule, and using the recommended silicone oil.  It is thicker than any of the silicone oils I had on hand. 

[Booger]

I usually put my SCBA tank above my F10. Water (silicone grease) up the spout, let it all hang out.

[AlanMcD]

I have a Shoebox Max that I ran for about 100 hours on lithium grease before upgrading to the auto oiler, then ran it for about 45 hours that way for a total of 145 hours,  never having had to rebuild it.

I decided to do so last weekend, rather than to wait and find I needed to rebuilt it when I need air.  I found a surprising amount of lithium grease in with the check valves, but not much silicone oil on its own.  There was no "black gunk" that I observed anywhere, as the lithium grease was normal colored, and what signs I could detect of silicone oil were clear.  I cleaned it all up and reassembled it, and all went well when I tested it out.  I did use krytox on the O-rings during reassembly instead of lithium grease.

I have never seen any buildup of gunk coming out of the Shoebox.  I emptied and inspected my guppy tank two weeks ago looking for water,  and it had nothing in it – bone dry and clean with no gunk or deposits.

One thing I always do, and I highly recommend it to everyone regardless of compressor type, is to vent the line after the fill by using ONLY the vent on the compressor and NEVER the vent on the fill station.  The reason for this is that if you vent from the fill station you end up “blowing” any water droplets, grease/oil, o-ring dust and whatnot into the airline to your tank, as they will rapidly blow out of the body of the compressor and up through the airline.  This rapid airflow is in sharp contrast to the very (or at least relatively) slow flow of air from normal compressor operation.  The other way around (venting at the compressor) forces the volume of compressed air in the hose back through the compressor to help “clear” the compressor body of the “byproducts of compression.”

One other thing I do in the rare cases where I run my Shoebox for significantly more than one hour, is that I close the tank valve and vent the compressor as described above at about the hour mark, without even stopping the compressor.  Then I shut the vent and reopen the tank.  This just helps keep any buildup from making it into the line or tank.

So with my Shoebox and these practices, I see no signs of gunk coming out the compressor.  And I don’t use a post compression filter – but I do use serious pre-Shoebox filtration for moisture as well as particulates down to 0.1 micron.  Maybe some of the gunk is dust mixed in with the lubes?  I will add that my o-rings looked fine when they came out – who knows how long they would have lasted, and whether or not the extra filtration helped with their life and the generation of gunk.

Also, I expect that not drying the air before compression could lead to some of this gunk formation.  Water will condense out in both stages of compression, and it could be part of the gunk.

Overall I am very happy with the auto lube upgrade myself, and I have seen no downside to it.  I keep a log of how much my Shoebox runs, so I know when to lightly re-lube it.

[chwillbill68]

I have a Shoebox Max that I ran for about 100 hours on lithium grease before upgrading to the auto oiler, then ran it for about 45 hours that way for a total of 145 hours,  never having had to rebuild it.

I decided to do so last weekend, rather than to wait and find I needed to rebuilt it when I need air.  I found a surprising amount of lithium grease in with the check valves, but not much silicone oil on its own.  There was no "black gunk" that I observed anywhere, as the lithium grease was normal colored, and what signs I could detect of silicone oil were clear.  I cleaned it all up and reassembled it, and all went well when I tested it out.  I did use krytox on the O-rings during reassembly instead of lithium grease.

I have never seen any buildup of gunk coming out of the Shoebox.  I emptied and inspected my guppy tank two weeks ago looking for water,  and it had nothing in it – bone dry and clean with no gunk or deposits.

One thing I always do, and I highly recommend it to everyone regardless of compressor type, is to vent the line after the fill by using ONLY the vent on the compressor and NEVER the vent on the fill station.  The reason for this is that if you vent from the fill station you end up “blowing” any water droplets, grease/oil, o-ring dust and whatnot into the airline to your tank, as they will rapidly blow out of the body of the compressor and up through the airline.  This rapid airflow is in sharp contrast to the very (or at least relatively) slow flow of air from normal compressor operation.  The other way around (venting at the compressor) forces the volume of compressed air in the hose back through the compressor to help “clear” the compressor body of the “byproducts of compression.”

One other thing I do in the rare cases where I run my Shoebox for significantly more than one hour, is that I close the tank valve and vent the compressor as described above at about the hour mark, without even stopping the compressor.  Then I shut the vent and reopen the tank.  This just helps keep any buildup from making it into the line or tank.

So with my Shoebox and these practices, I see no signs of gunk coming out the compressor.  And I don’t use a post compression filter – but I do use serious pre-Shoebox filtration for moisture as well as particulates down to 0.1 micron.  Maybe some of the gunk is dust mixed in with the lubes?  I will add that my o-rings looked fine when they came out – who knows how long they would have lasted, and whether or not the extra filtration helped with their life and the generation of gunk.

Also, I expect that not drying the air before compression could lead to some of this gunk formation.  Water will condense out in both stages of compression, and it could be part of the gunk.

Overall I am very happy with the auto lube upgrade myself, and I have seen no downside to it.  I keep a log of how much my Shoebox runs, so I know when to lightly re-lube it.

  I went back a look at the pic of your awesome setup.  So as to try and understand what you are saying.  You have a ball valve at the start of your filter and desiccant to the shoe box. Do you close that valve and bleed all the air from the tank and then unhook it at that valve and bleed the air from the filters and line to shoebox?  Also how do you guys bleed your high pressure side, on your it looks like you just have a male foster fitting there.

Also you say you follow the lubing schedule and it works great.  I am still waiting on my shoebox, so I hope it comes with instruction for all this, and if I understand what you and most are saying it dosen't come with silicon oil for the box.  Someone said you can't use regular silicon oil, what type is recommended?
Sorry for all the questions, I want to be prepared and use everything the right way. Don't want to mess up these things that I paid so much money for.

Bill C!

[AlanMcD]

Bill,

When done with a fill I do the following, being as specific as I can be:
1) I shut off the compressor, which always leads to the pistons being in the fully retracted position due to the pressure in the cylinders
2) I close the ball valve to separate the system from the shop air, and close the valve into my tank (I don't fill directly to any guns; the tank is easier)
3) I open the bleed valve on the Shoebox, not the fill line.  This blows the high pressure air out the vent hole in the air block of the Shoebox, including venting the tank hose out the same path, blowing any moisture (which I never have) and grease/oil out the unit there rather than through the tank's air hose.
4) Since the pistons are retracted, the excess air in the filters continues to flow out the vent.  With my cover off as I use the unit, the shaft block and pistons are fully accessible. I simply push the block and the pistons back into the cylinders to stop the air flow, leaving the pressure (typically about 80 psi or so by this point) in the filters.  This slowly leaks out over a day or so, but I don't intentionally vent it.  It is fine under pressure, and it usually leaks out over a day or so anyways.
5) I close the Shoebox vent and remove the tank hose from the foster fitting.

I will add that I did see some signs of some vented oil/grease in the Shoebox when I rebuilt the cylinders last week, but I did not think anything of it at the time; I just wiped it up.  Some amount is to be expected - no way to lube o-rings without some making it through the system.  But bleeding it properly should manage it properly.

I suppose that if you really want to clean out the back portion of the internal Shoebox flow path, one could hook up the tank, pressurize the line, and then vent it at the Shoebox with the tank line open - that would blow a whole bunch of air through it cleaning out anything there pretty well!

[chwillbill68]

Bill,

When done with a fill I do the following, being as specific as I can be:
1) I shut off the compressor, which always leads to the pistons being in the fully retracted position due to the pressure in the cylinders
2) I close the ball valve to separate the system from the shop air, and close the valve into my tank (I don't fill directly to any guns; the tank is easier)
3) I open the bleed valve on the Shoebox, not the fill line.  This blows the high pressure air out the vent hole in the air block of the Shoebox, including venting the tank hose out the same path, blowing any moisture (which I never have) and grease/oil out the unit there rather than through the tank's air hose.
4) Since the pistons are retracted, the excess air in the filters continues to flow out the vent.  With my cover off as I use the unit, the shaft block and pistons are fully accessible. I simply push the block and the pistons back into the cylinders to stop the air flow, leaving the pressure (typically about 80 psi or so by this point) in the filters.  This slowly leaks out over a day or so, but I don't intentionally vent it.  It is fine under pressure, and it usually leaks out over a day or so anyways.
5) I close the Shoebox vent and remove the tank hose from the foster fitting.

I will add that I did see some signs of some vented oil/grease in the Shoebox when I rebuilt the cylinders last week, but I did not think anything of it at the time; I just wiped it up.  Some amount is to be expected - no way to lube o-rings without some making it through the system.  But bleeding it properly should manage it properly.

I suppose that if you really want to clean out the back portion of the internal Shoebox flow path, one could hook up the tank, pressurize the line, and then vent it at the Shoebox with the tank line open - that would blow a whole bunch of air through it cleaning out anything there pretty well!

Thanks Alan!