Crosman F4 same as a Umarex Surge?

[mlrs_27m]

Hey all. I was thinking about getting a nitro rifle and I was looking at the Crosman F4. It looks very similar to the Surge. I already have the Surge, and I dont really want the same rifle in nitro form, unless its that much of a better shooter. Is the nitro gun any better to shoot? Is it less hold sensitive?

[pault]

I have the Vantage  wood stock nitro piston  and it is not hold sensitive at all. Maybe I should rephrase that - the only hold it
doesn't seem to like is the so called Artillery Hold which is fine with me.

[White Eagle]

I had a Crosman F4, and really liked it.  Mine was not very hold sensitive, if at all, and was VERY accurate.  The only reason I sold it was to finance an air rifle I wanted more, otherwise I would have kept it.

I've never owned or handled the Surge, but I'm pretty sure it is not an F4.  Umarex is not affiliated with Crosman, that I'm aware of.

[mav72]

You never know. Some guns come from the same factoy with the same basic design. It all depends on which company has the better Quality Control standards or brand specific parts which make the product better or different. Some of the Stoeger break barrels were basically the same design as some of the Crosmans.

[pault]

White Eagle- Do you see much difference in accuracy between your former F4 and the Diana in your signature ?

[pault]

You never know. Some guns come from the same factoy with the same basic design. It all depends on which company has the better Quality Control standards or brand specific parts which make the product better or different. Some of the Stoeger break barrels were basically the same design as some of the Crosmans.

So your saying they could both come off the same production line at the same factory but with maybe a few minor modifications. Actually I think your probably right.

[lefteyeshot]

Surge is more like a Black Hawk Elite.

[White Eagle]

White Eagle- Do you see much difference in accuracy between your former F4 and the Diana in your signature ?

My D34 is a tack driver, but very hold sensitive.  It might be a tad more accurate than the F4, but not much more. The F4 would still do 1/4" groups at 25 yards from a rest with a good scope on it.  The quality of the 34 is better overall, but for the difference in price, the F4 is a bargain.  I will say, the mainspring on my 34 broke at 2,000 rounds, so that was a definite quality control issue with Diana, as a lot of other owners have had the same experience.  I tweaked the F4 by installing brass pivot washers, installing a bearing in the trigger (HUGE improvement), and doing a debur and lube tune with krytox.  It was a sweet shooter.

[mlrs_27m]

For a low price springer, that Surge is a great rifle. I tore it down and tarred the main spring and moly lubed the piston. The seal was in good condition. Im very impressed with the quality of it. It seems the lube tune tamed it a bit as well. I might just have to get the F4. I like the idea of having a .177 nitro in the collection.

[mav72]

You never know. Some guns come from the same factoy with the same basic design. It all depends on which company has the better Quality Control standards or brand specific parts which make the product better or different. Some of the Stoeger break barrels were basically the same design as some of the Crosmans.

So your saying they could both come off the same production line at the same factory but with maybe a few minor modifications. Actually I think your probably right.

Yep seen this in some fishing reels too. The QC is the main defining factor of which product is better. It also leads to the question weather the company supports their product. I hear Crosman has very good customer support, if theres an issue with a new gun.