.22 Armada...the journey...

[ShawninIL]

I think you can get more out of it Terry. I'm still tweaking my .25 Mrod, but I have gotten 64 shots at 36 FPE from 3000 down to 1350 psi. ES was 20, SD 5, Reg set at 1900. I am still playing with reg setting.

[triggertreat]

I think you can get more out of it Terry. I'm still tweaking my .25 Mrod, but I have gotten 64 shots at 36 FPE from 3000 down to 1350 psi. ES was 20, SD 5, Reg set at 1900. I am still playing with reg setting.

I will agree with that.  1700psi for 63 shots works out to 26.98 psi per shot.  Unregulated, I get anywhere from 18 to 23 psi per shot typically.

[TerryH]

I think you can get more out of it Terry. I'm still tweaking my .25 Mrod, but I have gotten 64 shots at 36 FPE from 3000 down to 1350 psi. ES was 20, SD 5, Reg set at 1900. I am still playing with reg setting.

I will agree with that.  1700psi for 63 shots works out to 26.98 psi per shot.  Unregulated, I get anywhere from 18 to 23 psi per shot typically.

I edited my post a few back after I ran the numbers in the AG calculator. 1.42 efficiency. 27psi per shot using 190cc for the air res is what I got. I'm clueless on what else to change. Tim is sending me lighter hammer springs to try but I don't really think that those are going to make much of a difference. The gun is very quiet. I don't hear any bounce but of course that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not there. I can't imagine that I need to turn the reg lower but maybe I do?? The fps drops like a rock as soon as it comes off the reg. Really want to maintain 30fpe. All of this is new to me so..... As always, suggestions are more than welcome.

[triggertreat]

I think you can get more out of it Terry. I'm still tweaking my .25 Mrod, but I have gotten 64 shots at 36 FPE from 3000 down to 1350 psi. ES was 20, SD 5, Reg set at 1900. I am still playing with reg setting.

I will agree with that.  1700psi for 63 shots works out to 26.98 psi per shot.  Unregulated, I get anywhere from 18 to 23 psi per shot typically.

I edited my post a few back after I ran the numbers in the AG calculator. 1.42 efficiency. 27psi per shot using 190cc for the air res is what I got. I'm clueless on what else to change. Tim is sending me lighter hammer springs to try but I don't really think that those are going to make much of a difference. The gun is very quiet. I don't hear any bounce but of course that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not there. I can't imagine that I need to turn the reg lower but maybe I do?? The fps drops like a rock as soon as it comes off the reg. Really want to maintain 30fpe. All of this is new to me so..... As always, suggestions are more than welcome.

63 shots at 30 FPE is awesome regardless of air used.  I'm thinking there is an error in the PSI readings.  You probably used less air than indicated.

[TerryH]

I think you can get more out of it Terry. I'm still tweaking my .25 Mrod, but I have gotten 64 shots at 36 FPE from 3000 down to 1350 psi. ES was 20, SD 5, Reg set at 1900. I am still playing with reg setting.

I will agree with that.  1700psi for 63 shots works out to 26.98 psi per shot.  Unregulated, I get anywhere from 18 to 23 psi per shot typically.

I edited my post a few back after I ran the numbers in the AG calculator. 1.42 efficiency. 27psi per shot using 190cc for the air res is what I got. I'm clueless on what else to change. Tim is sending me lighter hammer springs to try but I don't really think that those are going to make much of a difference. The gun is very quiet. I don't hear any bounce but of course that doesn't necessarily mean that it's not there. I can't imagine that I need to turn the reg lower but maybe I do?? The fps drops like a rock as soon as it comes off the reg. Really want to maintain 30fpe. All of this is new to me so..... As always, suggestions are more than welcome.

63 shots at 30 FPE is awesome regardless of air used.  I'm thinking there is an error in the PSI readings.  You probably used less air than indicated.

Wish it was, Keith but I'm pretty confident in the numbers. I good with more experimenting. Need to order more pellets and get the tanks filled. 60+ shot strings are hard on consumables.  The thing that I don't know is if it makes sense to leave the reg alone or make a change one way or the other.

[Rallyshark]

I'd probably leave that alone, but if you were to change it, I wouldn't go any lower.  You have got to be on the ragged edge diminishing returns I'd think.  I've been wrong before though

[TerryH]

I'd probably leave that alone, but if you were to change it, I wouldn't go any lower.  You have got to be on the ragged edge diminishing returns I'd think.  I've been wrong before though

That's my thought as well. Donnie. I can immediately tell the first shot off the reg because the fps falls significantly. I know that is not always the case so I diligently checked the gauge and sure enough. I feel like the reg is in the perfect place so if there is improvement to be made it just about has to be in the springs/spring adjustments unless there is something I am totally missing. I'm trying to read and learn as much as I can.

[triggertreat]

I would agree with Donny.  Your getting that many shots at 30 FPE at or very near 2% ES...The best string many here have seen.  The important part is the accuracy at the set speed.  If the pellets stack up at say 25 to 30 yards you have everything one could hope for in .22 cal.  My stock barrel was picky with pellets and speed and I had better luck in the 850 fps range.  You just have to play around with the most accurate pellet found and see if it gets better or worse or no change to really know how accurate it can get.


I found if I stuck with the same pellet I had better accuracy overall as the lead built up to match that one pellet type.  I avoided heavy barrel cleanings and just used a bore snake with the brass bristles removed.  That keep the barrel clean but not too clean.

[TerryH]

I would agree with Donny.  Your getting that many shots at 30 FPE at or very near 2% ES...The best string many here have seen.  The important part is the accuracy at the set speed.  If the pellets stack up at say 25 to 30 yards you have everything one could hope for in .22 cal.  My stock barrel was picky with pellets and speed and I had better luck in the 850 fps range.  You just have to play around with the most accurate pellet found and see if it gets better or worse or no change to really know how accurate it can get.


I found if I stuck with the same pellet I had better accuracy overall as the lead built up to match that one pellet type.  I avoided heavy barrel cleanings and just used a bore snake with the brass bristles removed.  That keep the barrel clean but not too clean.

Back on page 8 are some groups that were shot at these same velocities or a bit higher using the JSB 18.13's. Multiple dime size groups @ 41 yards when the ES was more like 5. I feel like it should be as good or better now. I shot 50 yard groups Saturday before I put the reg in it in a 20-30mph wind that were bigger but not bad considering the conditions. I did shoot the 25.39 JSB's just for grins and to see it get over 40fpe but I've pretty much stuck with the JSB 18.13's once I saw how good it shot them at 30fpe.

I'm going to experiment a bit more with the lighter primary spring just because but doubt I'll go any father than that. I have a .25 cal Armada and some goodies for it from Tim Hill set for Wednesday delivery so..... 

[FuzzyGrub]

As I mentioned before, your plenum is probably bigger than needed.  Now, your only option is removing the gauge block, but then the plenum is probably too small for 22 cal (Good for 177 though).  I don't know if Audrious sells shorter reg sleeves.   If you decide to reg your 25 cal, you could get the smaller plenum huma, and swap air tubes. 

I know Scott tunes his such that as it comes off reg that there is a slight bump in fps before falling off.  On his data he typically get a fair number of shots, still within Es after coming off reg.

Anyway, just some thoughts, on the other hand, after 60 shots a fill, you start wondering "Do I really need more?"     

[TerryH]

As I mentioned before, your plenum is probably bigger than needed.  Now, your only option is removing the gauge block, but then the plenum is probably too small for 22 cal (Good for 177 though).  I don't know if Audrious sells shorter reg sleeves.   If you decide to reg your 25 cal, you could get the smaller plenum huma, and swap air tubes. 

I know Scott tunes his such that as it comes off reg that there is a slight bump in fps before falling off.  On his data he typically get a fair number of shots, still within Es after coming off reg.

Anyway, just some thoughts, on the other hand, after 60 shots a fill, you start wondering "Do I really need more?" 

You know the routine, not a case of need. 

I'm obviously pleased with the 60+ shots but the efficiency or lack thereof kinda bugs me. I know that the real tuners seem to set the regs so that there are good shots after it comes off the reg but I really don't understand why that's the thing to do. From the volumes that I've read, it's my understanding that I should be setting the reg and tuning to the knee or where the max power is. I feel like that's where it is given that I have no preload on either spring and still getting a easy 30fpe and that the first shot after it falls off the reg also falls off. Seems to me that means that I'm right in the perfect spot with the reg setting but what do I know? I'm just a green horn so I could be totally off base.

I'm going to play with the lighter primary spring and trade around the secondary springs just to see. Past that I'll likely just be happy and move on to the .25.   

[robertr]

Terry if I may ask, what instructions are you using to set up your regulator?

[TerryH]

Terry if I may ask, what instructions are you using to set up your regulator?

All I have is what came with the regulator which is very little. Audrius sends a simple diagram that basically says turn this way for less pressure and the other way for more in 5 bar increments for every hour of the clock face for reference. There are no numerical markings on anything just a witness mark on the adjuster and another on the body for reference. The regulator is preset at 120 bar which is 1740 psi. I basically turned it to the right until it was at 5 o'clockish which should be 95 bar or 1370psi. Matching that to the fill station and gun gauges showed me that I was right about 1350 psi.

[robertr]

So no actual directions on how to tune the regulator. These are the instructions for setting up the Huma regulator, this may also work with the Audrius regulator. This is how I set the regs on my Scorpion and my brother's SynRod and had a spread of under 10fps on both rifles.
 If you try this method I would remove the TSS and use the single spring for setting up the reg, one mod at a time, once you have the reulator setup the way you like it re-nstall the TSS and set it up to the same fps as you had with the single spring when setting up the regulator. I am new at this also so I hope it helps.
 Did that make sense? Here is a pic of the instructions from the Huma site
Click on the pic. Just use the tuning part, the adjustment of reg might be different on the Audrius.

[triggertreat]

I have been thinking (scary thought I know).  If I only filled my gun to 1300psi, I would have to use a lot of hammer energy or increased dwell time to get to 30 FPE and that would waste a lot of air.  That maybe what's happening to you with the 27psi per shot.  If you raised the set point higher you may see better efficiency.  Raising the set point would put more pressure against the valve and cause it to close back quicker saving air.   The faster you can get the valve to close back the more efficient it will be.  The stronger pressure against the valve will help resist hammer bounce better as well.

[TerryH]

So no actual directions on how to tune the regulator. These are the instructions for setting up the Huma regulator, this may also work with the Audrius regulator. This is how I set the regs on my Scorpion and my brother's SynRod and had a spread of under 10fps on both rifles.
 If you try this method I would remove the TSS and use the single spring for setting up the reg, one mod at a time, once you have the reulator setup the way you like it re-nstall the TSS and set it up to the same fps as you had with the single spring when setting up the regulator. I am new at this also so I hope it helps.
 Did that make sense? Here is a pic of the instructions from the Huma site
Click on the pic. Just use the tuning part, the adjustment of reg might be different on the Audrius.

Thanks Robert. Pretty much the same process of adjustment between the Huma and the Audrius. When I initially installed the reg it was pre-set at 1740psi. I used the hammer spring that had worked the best prior to that, a Hill 12.5lb spring. The initial shots with that spring backed all the way out were in the 950fps range. That's why I turned the reg down to where it is now. When I ran the next string with that same sping at zero, I had speed in the 860fps range which was great but it obviously had a ton of bounce from the sound and I only got about 25 shots before it fell off the reg. I changed to the TSS and immediately got near 50 shots and with changing springs got the 63 shots that I posted. I'm going to pull everything apart this weekend and turn the reg up and see what happens.

[TerryH]

I have been thinking (scary thought I know).  If I only filled my gun to 1300psi, I would have to use a lot of hammer energy or increased dwell time to get to 30 FPE and that would waste a lot of air.  That maybe what's happening to you with the 27psi per shot.  If you raised the set point higher you may see better efficiency.  Raising the set point would put more pressure against the valve and cause it to close back quicker saving air.   The faster you can get the valve to close back the more efficient it will be.  The stronger pressure against the valve will help resist hammer bounce better as well.

Both springs in the TSS are backed out all the way. The primary adjuster is actually 3 1/2 threads outside the cap so I have the absolute minimum hammer energy possible with the lightest springs that I have. Shorty had a long post when he was tuning etc.. on a .25 and he used super low pressure, even lower than 1350psi if I remember correctly. I believe that the port work and valve flow is what is producing the air necessary to get those numbers at 1350psi.

[triggertreat]

Looking at Motorhead's 50 shot regulated string, he used 1,615psi (3000psi down to 1385psi).  His regulator was set at 1850psi and he used a 28 gram hammer.  He got 50 shots at 2.16% ES (19 fps) averaging 30.41 FPE. 


Looking at his string and air used, yours is in the same ballpark with air usage.  He used 32.3psi per shot.  I will note too that after the 50th shot it came off the reg and dropped like a rock.  This string was posted 11/04/2012 and long before the TSS and SSG mods.


You better leave that tune alone and go enjoy it, it is awesome!

[FuzzyGrub]

Lighter springs, lighter hammer, or both. 

[Rallyshark]

I have been thinking (scary thought I know).  If I only filled my gun to 1300psi, I would have to use a lot of hammer energy or increased dwell time to get to 30 FPE and that would waste a lot of air.  That maybe what's happening to you with the 27psi per shot.  If you raised the set point higher you may see better efficiency.  Raising the set point would put more pressure against the valve and cause it to close back quicker saving air.   The faster you can get the valve to close back the more efficient it will be.  The stronger pressure against the valve will help resist hammer bounce better as well.

This is basically what I've been thinking.  I'm still thinking bringing that reg set point up a little(10-20 bar) will yield slightly better results. The most efficient tunes tend to be on the low end of the knee, and not right on it.  It is like you said, the higher pressure will cause that valve to close faster.  If you think it has a snappy report now, listen to it after you up the pressure a bit.  It will be even quieter I think   Upping the regulator set point also has the added benefit of being able to adjust for more speed if needed without re-adjusting the regulator.  Again, it is hard to argue with that string though.