.217 cal - 30 gr. and .250 cal - 41 gr. Now in the NOE Store

[rsterne]

If you participated in the Group Buy for either of the above, the moulds are now completed and listed in the Store.... You will receive your discount code via PM.... Please follow the ordering instructions in that notice.... Note that two sizes of each are in the store, in various numbers of cavities, plus some versions with a Lyman HP pin in one cavity....

.22 cal 30 gr....   http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=374_375

.25 cal 41 gr....   http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=374_376

This completes all of the moulds that were at "Last Call" status.... but there are still four more Group Buys in progress....

http://noebulletmolds.com/smf/index.php/board,26.0.html

Bob

[Rallyshark]

What would be the odds of someone getting a few of these in .22 to test?  They will fit a Hatsan magazine, right?

[KnifeMaker]

These should open a new door for Factory barreled guns in shooters hands that would like to try the wonderful world of Bullet shooting!

Well Done!

Knife

[Airgunhunter73]

I put my order in last night for a 5 cavity 30gr 22, Thanks Bob for all the hard work and help

[PlanB]

Hey Bob another question please
I plan to order noe sizer for fx 30,25 & 22 i plan to push a pellet through barrel to help decide what size. should i push it just short of the twist or all the way through?
 and do i order same size as the pellet or 1 or more thousandths smaller?
thanks
TC

[corerftech]

I would expect that slugging the bore for an AG is no different than slugging a powder burner which I have been doing for 30 plus years.

Dead soft lead slug (a round ball in the case of an AG would suffice).

Push/pound through (yes pound since you must accurately form a mirror of your bore dimensions in the ball) using an undersized steel bar stock (yes steel) using tape bands every few inches to keep the bar centered in the bore and not tracking away allowing the end of bar to touch the bore.

Fit of the slug should be at least one caliber larger than bore, i.e. 22 is .235-.240. Some lead should shave when entering the muzzle. Scary sounding isn't it. Try it on a $700 new barrel or on a barrel hanging form a $10,000 heirloom thats to be shot. Makes you think twice. Don't--- keep the ram rod as close as you can to the bore but undersized enough for a layer or two of making tape every 3 inches. That will act as a guide and it won't drift. GREASE the slug and grease the barrel with a patch prior to ensure you encounter no bobbles in mid pass. The soft AG bore is not going to be happy with a tight dry slug. Although usually for 22 cal I can simply push down on the rod and press it all the way through.

DONT USE A CLEANING ROD, you'll bend or break it. Can use a wooden dowl or brass dowel as well. Wood will shatter, brass bends and mushrooms. Steel, usually goes right through w/o hassle.

Lastly if AG is anything like a powder burner (or any other projectile trowing device), the bore is the last condition to be used for bullet sizing.
The throat is the location for fitment. Usually a pound cast of the throat is made, but since there is no breach block to block travel of slug, there is no way to do so.
If Veral Smith was to be asked, he would say pound cast but since that is not an option, cerrosafe cast it.

Remove breach seals, plug bore from muzzle end about 1/4 inch into rifling.

Remember that if the cerrosafe gets to the level of the seal groove, the cast will never leave the gun until you take a torch to the breach end and melt out. It will be locked in. So error on side of short pour, getting the throat to rifling origin only. That Freebore is where you need to fit.

Interesting since many guns are mag fed, you may end up with a pellet that is larger than the dimensions of the mag. In that case, just like a revolver throat, either you will need to ream the mag bores or settle for a pellet that is undersized. Any force needed to push the pellet into the mag will otherwise be sizing the bullet and alter it smaller than needed throat fit.
In revolvers, we open the throats on all 5/6 chambers to oversize from bore/groove. OK to keep the squishing moving forward but its hard to make a bullet larger once it got smaller!!!! Unlike a revolver there is no forcing cone to further complicate the sizing matters-



The throat is where the support for the pellet is, unless your pellet is fully engraved into the rifling by the probe. Then ----- use the bore/groove dimensions.

Since AG pellets are fragile little skirted goodies from pure lead, then the skirt needs to obturate to seal the bore. Best fit is usually at least .0005 and upwards of .002 larger. IN an AG, Id error on side of .0005, which is a friction fit of the pellet into bore/groove.

When I say bore, I mean the lands, groove, the GROOVES (larger of the dimensions)

Also if the barrel has an odd number of lands, good luck measuring the dimensions of the slug afterwards. Also use a micrometer, not a caliper. NOE is expecting real measurements in .0001s not .001s.

Lastly I would NOT size a pellet unless your using it for many guns and you'd better slug them all.
As CAST is best. Get the mold cut correctly for the gun at hand. Buy another mold sized diff for another gun. Little pellets aren't going to take sizing well.

As a ML rifle with minnie ball and skirt (similar), obturation of the skirt is the real guide mechanism. It would be nice if the nose was also bore riding. Maybe you can taylor the nose diameter to be bore riding D and skirt .0005 over groove. That will allow a generous perfect nose ride, with a tight gas seal come *(&^ or high water.

Let the barrel size the pellet, not a sizer!!!!!!! Its small and soft and can be sized in your fingers. Let the barrel swage the pellet. Go big or go home (take that conservatively not excessively)

BULLET FIT IS EVERYTHING!! (Pellet fit is "probably" everything too!)

BTW: If an AG responds to a correctly fit bullet like powder burners do, these pellets if they fly stable and obturate correctly with the right alloy, will turn air gunning on its head.

To anyone casting, if you can get cast iron molds, do so. Use a preheater to keep heat in the mold. You don't have enough lead mass to keep a mold above $500 degrees AT ALL no matter how fast your pouring cadence is. 22s for CF rifle at 45-50 grains in two cav Mehanite (iron) are hard enough to keep hot. wet poor fill out, etc. You DONT want to use TIN as your weight will drop and thats going backwards for you. So no tin, close if not solely pure lead to increase density and BC--- its NOT going to fill out nicely!

Just offering 20 years of casting bullets from .224/40gr  to  .525/600grain for every form of gun made. It will take some work to perfect the process. Hoping the mold bodies are much smaller (smaller mass to heat) than most bullet molds. If not, have the electric hotplate ready and up at 650'. Casting may be very slow with many rejects due to heat cycling.

[rsterne]

I am in no way an expert on casting bullets.... However, Doug Noble (dyotat100) knows what he's doing (he won the 200 yd. big bore EBR this year), and recently told a chap to use a bullet slightly UNDER the groove diameter of his barrel.... The guy was rewarded with ragged one-hole groups at 50 yards with the 51 gr. BBT.... Most guys say that choked barrels don't work great with bullets, but I have heard other guys who say they shoot just fine.... The bottom line is, what works, works.... I have purchased sizing bushings at the groove diameter, 0.001 under and 0.001 and 0.002 over for each of my moulds.... I measure the groove diameter just ahead of the leade by pushing a tight roundball or slightly oversize bullet through the breech, past the chamber and leade into the rifling, and then back out through the breech and measure the groove diameter (not the lands).... I would not push it all the way through to the muzzle if the barrel was choked....

Bob

[PlanB]

Thanks again kind Sir.
Just to make sure that im understanding?
You said "let the barrel do the sizeing , not the sizer".
Im purdy sure that you were not saying , dont use a sizer but to size pellets .001-002 over and let barrel do the rest?

[corerftech]

For giggles I googled swaging airgun pellets, which is how the mfg. makes them.
I figures they are so small and Mr. Huntington did so well with his Rockchucker Press swaging bullets (RCBS founder), that surely a 177, 22 or 25 AG pellet could be swaged at home easier and more accurately than casting. I defer to Mr. Corbin website for AG pellet design and chamber fit. Not that he is an authority on AG, no, but he builds the swagers for half the world or more and well..... he talks with folks and has a general awareness about projectile design, and fit. Take a look, won't post a link to it, easy to find if you search corbin, pellet, swage.


Bob,

I agree with you fully. You don't have a throat reference but you do have a "widest point" bore reference.
Ideally the pellet/bullet should be large enough to friction fit the throat which is-------- larger than the groove.
A projectile not supported in the throat will not launch as well as one well supported.
If you have a throat in the chamber, then a bore sized pellet is wallowing in a bathtub.
Hence my statement, larger than groove- the throat MUST be at least groove diameter, or there is not throat.
.0005 is a nice press fit into a throat (any chamber running a cast bullet)

PlanB:

To stay brief, yes Id let the barrel size the bullet, (see above comments), choked or not.
Unless the barrel was made by a nincompoop the muzzle is ALWAYS tighter than the breach. The presence of a choked barrel is not new or special, again unless a barrel was made by a nincompoop.
"Significantly TAPERED bores" with exceptionally tall ramps and also gain twists are relatively new ideas to improve performance.
Cast bullet shooters (read: Scheutzen and beyond) have been choking barrels for a long time. Thats all part of the lapping process, if done correctly. Great marketing ploy though!


I won't argue with results, not here to do so. I only provided what conventional wisdom (global) over the last 200 years of cast bullet shooting using lead based projectiles has generated.
Maybe Airguns don't follow the same principles for launching cast bullets as other platforms.

In general, the age old analogy is this: Your rolling a marble down a sewer pipe when you use an undersized bullet.
Those before me by 100 years and those for the next 100 years after I am dust will agree with that statement and it will never change.
I speak ONLY from experience of launching many thousands and casting many tens of thousands of bullets for every variety of launcher (except AG) generally used.
FAT works better than SKINNY-

The guy cutting your mold will tell you- oversized works better. Unless in AG's conventional wisdom and physics don't apply.
Im OPEN to that possibility.

So as to not drag this topic either off topic or misdirect it- Im looking forward to your results.

As for Bullet Casting-
For further information on casting (the entire subject from hot melt to send hot lead flying), I suggest using the resources at the Cast Bullet Association website. Also: "The Beginners guide to cast bullets", Joe Brennan, great compilation of wisdom form the likes of Frank Marshall, C.E. Harris and far beyond. A nice primer on the art and form of bullet casting.


As for bullet bit period: The throat is the single most important area of a barrel, end of conversation. You can rot the insides of the barrel to the point of clumps of &^^& are in it, but if the  BULLET IS FITTED WELL in the throat (ie. friction fit), it is very likely the bullet will survive the barrel damage and launch as intended and directed.

Get a brand new barrel, break it in however makes you happy. Make the throat two degree crooked form bore axis. Send all the bullets you want down it, don't care bout size or shape. There is no fix. Its a total accuracy loss.
When you have a loose bullet in a throat, that bullet launches exactly as the driving impulse found it, its doesn't stand up at attention like a soldier getting kicked in the @@@. If IT IS off axis (and your probe aint that accurate at guiding a pellet not position) then your LOST. Thats the effect of a SMALL bullet. It WILL ALWAYS be misaligned with the bore in the throat as the throat DID NOT GUIDE AND MAINTAIN its launch position. Your concentricity of loading is directed by the probe and if related to CF guns, the neck axis of the cartridge. If the throat fits perfect, non-concentric ammo won't fit or you push hard and the bullet moves to the throats corrective pressure. Same will happen with your probe. A tight pellet will move into throat alignemnt under pressure of probe. A loose pellet will simply roll willy nilly not the throat, and stay willy nilly.

[nielsenammo]

I have a Corbin swage set up.  Well made stuff.  Very expensive to get what is needed and very time consuming to make slugs with.

I have a hydraulic press set up, works awesome.  I make custom slugs for myself all the time and is great. 

I recommend really looking into what you will need to make slugs before buying Corbin equipment.  The lead wire is very expensive and time commitment is huge.  I have drawers and drawers full of Punches, Dies and other equipment for swaging.  However, if you are willing to make those financial and time commitments, Corbin's equipment is awesome.

[K.O.]

Time to find my bit of plumbers lead to mix with my reclaimed pellets.. some more on order (rotometals)...