Calling all 25 cal marauder REGULATED guns

[imadunatic]

Here's a free spreadsheet a made to share if you need one:  Click here to download the free spreadsheet

Keith,

How did you get to the tune in the spreadsheet? That looks just about perfect to me.... (upper 800's with the 25.4's for over 35 shots).

Kevin

[GoneShootn]

I was going to take the reg out and drop the pressure a bit and found out something interesting - the degas tool won't work with the Hill hammer with supplied set screw striker. Won't reach far enough. So, instead of just removing the reg, I had to take the rifle apart to get to the hammer. I installed the stock striker and locked it down. Then put back together and degassed.

I set the reg to about 130 bar, which is just at, or a bit shy of, 2k on the rifle gauge. We'll see what that does.

[oldpro]

I was going to take the reg out and drop the pressure a bit and found out something interesting - the degas tool won't work with the Hill hammer with supplied set screw striker. Won't reach far enough. So, instead of just removing the reg, I had to take the rifle apart to get to the hammer. I installed the stock striker and locked it down. Then put back together and degassed.

I set the reg to about 130 bar, which is just at, or a bit shy of, 2k on the rifle gauge. We'll see what that does.

Pulling the reg in and out and degassing is a pain that’s all about to go away. Sorry the video is so clunky I was trying to balance the gun adjust the reg and watch the gauge while filming all by myself(bad idea)      

[oldpro]

 Ill get Matt to film while I do it Friday this was late last night and I was all alone. First prototype by the way and it worked great!

[GoneShootn]

Well, it looks like I made it to the 32/36 club. That's all day squirrel hunting on one fill. Not where I want to be but way better than before regulator and Hill parts.

So, where from here? I might try to hog out the valve as Shorty suggested, or I might go for a new valve. The question then would be, which one - the Hill valve or the Jefferson State/WAR valve and Twin Spring System?

Thoughts?

[oldpro]

JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.

[Motorhead]

JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.

Will SECOND the WAR Cobra as an EXCELLENT valve in general & far better under regulation than any thing in the market place.

[triggertreat]

Here's a free spreadsheet a made to share if you need one:  Click here to download the free spreadsheet

Keith,

How did you get to the tune in the spreadsheet? That looks just about perfect to me.... (upper 800's with the 25.4's for over 35 shots).

Kevin

As best I can tell, those are not actual strings.  I think I do remember entering random numbers just to demonstrate the spreadsheet's displays.  It's been well over a year since I have even look at this.  If you notice the dates and regs are set the same on all three graphs and also the fill pressures so definitely not legitimate strings.  I always have data/notes of my setups and these strings are missing those.  You're suppose to replace them with your strings lol.

[imadunatic]

You're suppose to replace them with your strings lol.

Yeah I got that... LOL. I just happened to notice while I was looking over the sheet that it looked awesome, like too good to be true. 

[imadunatic]

JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.

Travis,

Any data on this? I'm most likely going regulated, hogged out stock valve first on the .25 synrod, but I've been eyeballing the JSAR and WAR valves for phase 2.

Kevin

[mobilemail]

Here is my contribution to the discussion.  I did this when about a month ago. The valve is not OEM, I think (but I'm not sure) it's a Cothran valve from at least four years ago. I have never disassembled or modded the valve, but it had a noticably lighter poppet spring than the OEM Crosman valve.  I used a full MDS JSAR hammer and an OEM hammer spring, and an Audrius regulator. Results are 40 shots @ 37fpe:

Jsb 25.4gr pellet                  
                  
   3000-1600psi
1   811   812   808   806   808   789
2   815   810   809   809   804   787
3   811   813   809   807   804   779
4   814   810   808   807   808   
5   814   811   807   810   806   
6   811   808   807   807   803   
7   811   811   808   808   796   
8   812   810   805   807   794   

Recorded in strings of 8 because of mag count.

[GoneShootn]

JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.

Will SECOND the WAR Cobra as an EXCELLENT valve in general & far better under regulation than any thing in the market place.

Is that valve compatible with the Twin Spring System?

[oldpro]

 Scotty and I worked very hard on the Cobra valve when I was with WAR. I designed it and built the first Prototype here at home Scott then helped me test and refine it. I can’t build them for sale that would be bad Karma even though it’s my design. That design belongs to WAR now and you can contact Jim or purchase one on his website. As far as information there is plenty here just use the search engine. Scott has converted many valves himself to Cobra tech and used it to win his National FT title last year.

[triggertreat]

JSAR valve is best used unregulated it’s a power valve. The Hill valve is a good option but the WAR Cobra valve is probably the best valve made for regulating JMHO.

Will SECOND the WAR Cobra as an EXCELLENT valve in general & far better under regulation than any thing in the market place.

Is that valve compatible with the Twin Spring System?

It sure is and I would recommend the TSS with dual springs especially if you plan on using the upper scale of a reg.  That valve closes back lightning fast and can be a little harder to crack open when approaching say a 2000psi set point.  Very nice valve indeed and extremely efficient on air usage.  It may also have had some revision from the original valve I have, but IDK of any personally.

[GoneShootn]

It sure is and I would recommend the TSS with dual springs especially if you plan on using the upper scale of a reg.  That valve closes back lightning fast and can be a little harder to crack open when approaching say a 2000psi set point.  Very nice valve indeed and extremely efficient on air usage.  It may also have had some revision from the original valve I have, but IDK of any personally.

I want 40 fpe, but with present setup (including Hill lightweight hammer and 262 hammer spring) and 4 turns on the HS, the cocking force is a tad more than I would like. Probably wouldn't be a problem with a side cocking mechanism, but I find it a bit tricky with the Marauder bolt system. At the same FPE - say 35-45 - would the TSS help that at all?

Also, in the same vein, I have read that an MDS hammer would help in cocking, but I have also read that there are problems, like expanding/contracting in different temps or humidity, etc. Do those claims have merit? If not, what MDS hammer would you guys recommend?

[triggertreat]

The MDS "Super Hammer" from JSAR will make cocking much smoother.  It wont gall the air tube like the metal hammers do.  This will aid or eliminate double loading.

Most if not all of the issues with the MDS hammers stem from over tightening the hammer's lug screw.  Doing this will warp or disfigure the hammer causing binding with the air tube.  Just snug the cocking lug screw flush with the hammer and all should be fine.

With restricted air flow to the pellet skirt, cranking in the hammer spring is the only way to achieve enough valve lift to reach higher velocities.  It is much preferred to have sufficient airflow with short burst of HPA to gain higher velocities and to achieve the best efficiency and the easiest cocking effort.

Using two springs, which the TSS does, greatly reduces the cocking effort verses one heavier spring.  The TSS has more headroom than the stock end cap.  The longer the spring you can fit, the easier the cocking effort will be for a given tune.

[GoneShootn]

The MDS "Super Hammer" from JSAR will make cocking much smoother.  It wont gall the air tube like the metal hammers do.  This will aid or eliminate double loading.

Most if not all of the issues with the MDS hammers stem from over tightening the hammer's lug screw.  Doing this will warp or disfigure the hammer causing binding with the air tube.  Just snug the cocking lug screw flush with the hammer and all should be fine.

With restricted air flow to the pellet skirt, cranking in the hammer spring is the only way to achieve enough valve lift to reach higher velocities.  It is much preferred to have sufficient airflow with short burst of HPA to gain higher velocities and to achieve the best efficiency and the easiest cocking effort.

Using two springs, which the TSS does, greatly reduces the cocking effort verses one heavier spring.  The TSS has more headroom than the stock end cap.  The longer the spring you can fit, the easier the cocking effort will be for a given tune.

Great! Thanks for the info.

[AlanMcD]

I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder.  I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports.  It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI.  I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.

My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .

[GoneShootn]

Oh, another question - It was suggested to go to maybe 3/16" for the valve and barrel ports. Tim Hill said that he was concerned that going bigger than .16" on a stock valve might "chance a bent valve seat from the constant high pressure". Has anyone who has gone this big ever had a problem with it?

[oldpro]

I will add that I have been running the JSAR valve regulated with great success, but I am doing so in a "power tune" configuration in a .25 cal Gen I Marauder.  I am running it regulated at 2100 psi using a lightweight hammer and an original TSS with 0.190" ports.  It is launching 34 grain JSBs at ~52 FPE, and is doing so at an efficiency level of 1.53 FPE/CI.  I am very happy with the overall performance of this set up - very powerful, accurate, quiet, and with reasonable cocking efforts.

My gun gives me 24 shots at this level off a 3000 psi fill, but I am using a lightweight air tube with an extra 3 inches of length . . . .

Your correct Allan If you go beyond stock power levels and let the valve breath the JSAR valve is excellent not so at lower power levels though.