First gun advice: Benjamin Marauder vs Gamo Coyote vs AirForce Talon vs ???

[Zumbooruk]

first post, I apologize in advance if I am asking way too many questions all at once...

I am researching before purchasing my first air rifle, looking for some advice.

If all goes well, I will probably end up with more than one rifle, but I do need a good first one to get it all started…

What I am looking for is a high probability to capture my 15 years old son’s interest (and get him outside and off internet/iphone/etc)

I would call that "fun target shooting", not hunting, not competitions (at least not yet), for me that would be:

1- accuracy out of the box, if it is not accurate, it can be frustrating, no fun and lost interest, but I am not looking for match accuracy. so I am guessing that a gun capable of 1″ groups at 50 yards would be satisfactory, or is that asking for too much???

2- very good trigger, but again match grade trigger is not required.

3- easy to shoot for both a teenager and and an older person, i.e. lighter weight, no overly strong spring to compress each time, not a lot of prep (minimize excuses not to go out and practice shooting).

4- challenging enough to hold my son’s interest as he gets better (always the optimist), so I am thinking maybe a rifle which will be accurate at longer ranges to 50 yards?

5- ability to use both scope and iron sights (I believe that it would be easier to start and get good results with a scope, and get him hooked, then later more challenging with iron sights), but this would be the least important criteria, since if he does get hooked on the sport and wants to advance, I'll purchase him a match grade rifle.

anything else I should be looking for in a first air rifle?

oh, the stock must be ambidextrous, since my son is left handed.

my budget is around $500-$600 for the rifle, and about $150-$200 for a good scope (4-12×50???) with the goal to keep it well under $1,000 including any other accessories, scope rings, ammo, targets, adapter & pump, backstop/pellet trap, etc.

looking at several online stores' web sites, the selection is huge, so I need help narrowing it down…

I am leaning toward PCP, instead of spring powered, and I rather not have disposable cartridges.

is the decision to go with a PCP for a first gun a good one? or should I be looking at spring powered for a first gun?

while browsing the web sites, there were few rifles which caught my eye (though I am not sure how well they "satisfy" my desirements above):

Benjamin Marauder - repeater, good trigger, front sight on the spin off shroud?

Gamo Coyote - repeater, lighter, good trigger, front sight with the silencer?

Airforce Talon - single shot, lightest, but more expensive, has rail to attach front sight, but non-adjustable trigger, how good is the trigger?

Hammerli 850 AirMagnum (with refillable paintball tank adapter, no disposables), cheapest, repeater, might be just good enough for my desirements... save money in case the new hobbie does not take off...

any other comments/recommendations for a rifle satisfying my desirements?


thanks,

-z

[Zumbooruk]

Hi,

I just joined the forum, seeking advice for a first gun

My idea is to try and hook my son on shooting (anything which will get him away from internet/iphone/books, and gets him outdoors)

I might have posted on the wrong forum but I rather not cross post so please see my first post with lots and lots of questions at:

newbielink:http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=115919 [nonactive]

thanks,

-z

[TleVta]

Welcome to the forum. How old is he? Buy a Marauder Pistol, then unplug his internet. 

[customcutter]

Have you considered where you are going to shoot?  In the back yard or at a range?  How quiet does it need to be?

Also pumping will probably get old fast and will not be "fun", I would suggest investing in a used SCBA tank on EBAY.  You can get one with 3-4 years of life left in it for around $100, to see if you like the hobby.  Also check to make sure you have a paintball or diving shop nearby to fill the SCBA tank, and what they charge.  In my area, it's $16 from empty and $11 from 2000PSI to 4500.

You might also want to look at refurbished guns to control cost of the gun. 

Some guns use a cocking lever instead of a bolt, which makes cocking easier.  Also bullpups "feel" much lighter than rifles.

I'm new to the hobby myself, but just a few of my observations. 

Good luck.

[maraudinglizard]

The maximus or discovery will fit most of your requirements. Both have open sights with the option of a scope mounted. The maximus has fiber optic open sights, the discovery has iron sights. Both are single shot. The maximus is lighter with a synthetic stock, the discovery is wood. Both come in .177 or .22. They are accurate out to 50yds. Fill pressure is 2000 psi, the others that you mentioned are 3000 psi. Both are great for entry level pcp shooting. Both are ambidextrous, the bolts are right handed, safety is in the trigger guard. As mentioned, refurbs can be a less expensive way to start as well.

Don't shy away from CO2 rifles, I use think that way about the carts. Umarex Fusion is a great out of the box accurate shooter, no iron sights, ambidextrous, built in LDC very backyard friendly. Crosmans Heritage 2260 is another one to look at. Crosman shop for the 2400kt, you can get open sights for this rifle. The possibilities are endless. Good luck.

2400kt

[anti-squirrel]

A Marauder Pistol would be a lot of fun, and is a great choice for sure, but there are other options.

Such as the Artemis/SPA/Onix PCP pistol, the PP700.  Regulated, easy to pump, very adjustable power levels, good accuracy!  Best part?  $225 to your door so you can spend the rest on a handpump (good exercise) and a scope. 

The Coyote gets great reviews everywhere I've seen and nobody is complaining about the accuracy. 

The Talon is a single-shot but is recognized for adjustability and that Lothar barrel means accuracy.

Good luck

[Nickelsig229]

I wish I knew more about pcp airguns then I did before making my purchase. I did a lot of research and I settled on a benjamin marauder. It is a good gun for 450 bucks. Here comes the But. But, I wish I had known to go for a  higher quality regulated gun instead.

Now the money I saved buying the benjamin has been spent on upgrades, I could have put a few more dollars in and walked away with a daystate, fx or warp or something along those lines that requires nothing to upgrade.

[Nomadic Pirate]

I bought 2 Marauder pistols and than modified them into carbine/rifle for my Daughter, she never really enjoyed the crunchy bolt action.

She has loved shooting my Rainstorms immensely with the Butter smooth lever actions.

Right now you can get a Rainstorm  II .22 for less than 700 bucks, great deal in my opinion, lightweight, very tunable, very ergonomic.


A Sumatra Carbine in .22 cal would be an other excellent option ( my daughter loved the fun cowboy lever action also )

[Old Corps]

I wish I knew more about pcp airguns then I did before making my purchase. I did a lot of research and I settled on a benjamin marauder. It is a good gun for 450 bucks. Here comes the But. But, I wish I had known to go for a  higher quality regulated gun instead.

Now the money I saved buying the benjamin has been spent on upgrades, I could have put a few more dollars in and walked away with a daystate, fx or warp or something along those lines that requires nothing to upgrade.

Just curious-What did you feel you had to upgrade? The only thing I've done to mine was straighten the lawyer spring and tune it for my preferences. JMHO

Ed

[45Bravo]

By jumping into a PCP rifle you are not testing the waters, you are jumping off in the deep end of the pool.

Air guns are a lot like cars, there are everyday drivers that are cheap, and everyday drivers that are expensive, there are sports/exotic models, and there are trucks.

I currently own 2 of the guns listed, (marauder and Air Force)
The marauder has the best trigger, and both the trigger and the gun are infinitely adjustable without buying anything.
Some people feel they need upgrades, (regulators, larger air chambers, after market barrels and such)
Other than tuning  the marauder to where it wanted to be shot,(3100 psi fill, and I get 70 shots) it is stock, and has hunting accuracy to 50 yards, and soda can accuracy out to 100.

If you want regulated guns, bite the bullet and get a more expensive ride..

The talon, mine came to me from R&L airguns, and is highly modified (after market stock, and a shroud to make it quieter, and a more powerful valve.

The trigger is not as adjustable, but still good at about 2 lbs or less, and crisp, and it is an air hog on high pressure air.
On co2, the shot count is several hundred on a 7 oz paintball tank refilled for a couple of dollars, and it drops the speed by about a third, for general plinking, and with the walther barrel, yes its accurate, with both co2 and air.
That being said, I would put the talon into a high end truck category, it is listed as a "utility"air gun,
It's simple, reliable, accurate, and completely ambidextrous, (but then so is the mrod)
The talon looks cool, and has the accuracy to back it up.
I haven't found "the pellet" for it yet, but I get ~1/2inch groups at 50 yards, and ~3 inch groups at 100

The gamo is actually made by BSA, but built to a lower price point than the BSA by name gun.

I see it as a Volkswagen, nice looking, good performing, with European heritage.
The coyote whisper is on my list to either try or buy (I prefer to try first)

I suggest trying the guns before you buy, as you may not like the FEEL of the gun.

My go to gun was the mrod, now it's the talon, but it really depends on the power I need as to which gun I grab, if I need less power than either, then I grab a custom 2240 co2 carbine I built.

This is An addiction, welcome to the club..

Don't forget to think about how to fill the rifles.
The talon tank is huge, (over 2x the marauder displacement) so is hard to pump, but is easily switched to co2.

[Nickelsig229]

I wish I knew more about pcp airguns then I did before making my purchase. I did a lot of research and I settled on a benjamin marauder. It is a good gun for 450 bucks. Here comes the But. But, I wish I had known to go for a  higher quality regulated gun instead.

Now the money I saved buying the benjamin has been spent on upgrades, I could have put a few more dollars in and walked away with a daystate, fx or warp or something along those lines that requires nothing to upgrade.

Just curious-What did you feel you had to upgrade? The only thing I've done to mine was straighten the lawyer spring and tune it for my preferences. JMHO

Ed

I feel like it's unfinished in its stock form.

I find that the more I learn about the gun, the more I see it's undeveloped potential. Things like fitment, my valve does not line up properly in the air tube so the air hole is 1/4 covered by the gasket, the hard uneven bolt, the requirement of a ssg, the different mods for less resistance of the hammer, a regulator, polishing. I understand that it is only a 450 dollar gun and to make it that affordable something has to be given up. There are guns in the 1k range, yes twice as much, but they provide a much better entrance into the sport. You don't have to mod or fix or install anything, you just put in a pellet and your already in a state of tune that doesn't require any tinkering.

For guys who have been in the hobby for a while and have seen and learned things, that's not that important or that big a deal. In fact they may want a gun that has potential to unlock through their tinkering, but for a guy who is buying a first gun, who might not want to have to go do the research and tinkering yet still be competitive or have the tools to go be competitive, there are better alternatives.

I enjoy the marauder, I enjoy the learning process and look forward to the winter where I can tinker and try to get the most out of it, but something like a high quality rifle that I previously listed would actually be a better choice for a first gun, for someone who doesn't want to tinker, or doesn't know how.

That is why I'm currently saving pennies for my second gun which will be 4x the cost, but at least I can feel confident I've got a something that is good to go right out of the box.

[rustysocket]

I am new to PCP guns myself and for my first gun I went with the Gamo Coyote.

I picked it up as part of a package from AirGun Depot and got a great deal on it combined with a scope and a pump.  Initially I had intended to go with the Marauder but after doing quite a bit of research and waffling back and forth I went with the Gamo for a couple of reasons.  It was based on the BSA bucaneer platform,  it has a decent shot count stock and the biggest one was I wanted a .22 caliber. 

I spoke with many people and read many reviews and one thing that kept coming up was the hit/miss quality of the marauder barrel.  It is a very popular rife (probably the most popular) and here I am adding fuel to the fire as I have zero experience with it, but the simple fact is that there are a lot of people out there complaining about accuracy with the .22 marauder barrel and there are a lot of people out there saying there isn't a problem. 

Being new to PCP's and not really understanding the costs involved (and yes there are a lot of costs)  I viewed the cost of a gun and pump as being expensive and couldn't wrap my head around the fact that I was going to buy a gun and then possibly need to re-barrel it so I put off buying a gun for about six week.  All the time I'm reading and scouring for information.  It was at that point that I came across the BSA buccaneer which looked like a great choice. and then I learned that the Coyote was based off that platform and a lower cost. 

Some more searching and I found a bundle which included a nice G6 pump and so I threw it in the cart,  found an AGD discount code and ordered it.  I was sick of thinking.   

In hindsight.  I like the gun.... I'm not in love with it.  I absolutely hate pumping (not the guns fault)  but with that said I do get a decent shot count and while I dont' have a chrono yet (one of those things you spend more money on) it has a fairly flat spot in the middle of the range where the gun is very accurate and consisitent with my zero and I am happy with that.  At first the gun seemed quiet and it actually really is pretty quiet.  I shoot it in my backyard.

Then I found the "bargain gate"  (stay away...  bad, bad section of forum) and learned how to stack a couple of discounts so I got myself a PROD ordered.  I love my Maruader Pistol with the stock.  I put an overkill of a scope on it and added a LDC from Rocker1.  This thing is so quiet I shoot it at some metal plates in my back yard that sound like gongs and now when I shoot the Coyote I almost feel like I should be wearing hearing protection.  (Just kidding, but the prod with the ldc is so quiet that about all you hear is the hammerstrike and then the gong of the metal plate)  Also get a really good shot count but the benefit is that this thing is so easy to fill from 1000-3000psi is about 30-35 pumps.  I still hate pumping but that's why I shoot the prod more.


So here's where I'm at now.  I absolutely hate pumping so I will be purchasing a compressor booster and a bottle in the future.  I don't see it as optional anymore.  I love these PCP airguns as I can shoot in my backyard and have literally shot thousands of rounds in the last couple months. 

I wish I could have wrapped my head around the fact that there is no way to really get into this on the cheap with a high quality rifle.  I'm into it cheap by many standards and have still spent over a grand.  What I'm up against now is that I'm addicted to them and have rationalized that I really need either a FX Impact or a Daystate Huntsman but I will not do it until I can have a pump and bottle....
or I will do it so I have to have a pump and bottle...  depends on how good of deal I find on bargain gate... and what direction I intend to lie to the wife about the current delivery on the porch. 

Anyway... sorry to ramble on.  Get the best gun your budget will allow.... plan on spending more than you intially though you would.  I think any of your choices are acceptable.  I'd still buy the Coyote over the Marauder just because I think you can get the Maruader Pistol with the carbine stock and it has a better trigger than either of them.  I'm off to go pump both my guns up before I go to bed, becasue there is a crow that shows up every morning at a certain spot and I blew all my air making sure I had a good zero tonight and am planning on drilling him during my morning cup of coffee. 

Good luck with your decision. 

Also,  as soon as a get my air situation figured out the Talon is on my list as well, but if your gonna handpump its got a big bottle.  also my first car was a vw bug and i like how the other poster referred to the Coyote as the volkswagen of pcp.

[anti-squirrel]

Here's another set of options.  Write down what you intend to do with this PCP airgun.

Then write down what helps justify that purchase.  Good trigger?  Regulated?  Adjustable?  Inexpensive ammo?  Large range of ammo to test?  Availability of ammo?  Backyard friendliness?  Ease of filling with a hand-pump?  Max fill pressure?  Cost of purchase?  Multi-shot or single-shot?  Ease of maintenance or warranty?  Identify which of these are most important to you.

Then go find the airgun that meet the most options that you consider to be important.  Once you have that list, make your choice.

Example: I wanted a regulated airgun with a good trigger, with a smaller reservoir in either .177 or .22 with a shroud that was adjustable for plinking and pesting and small-game hunting that had could be pumped by hand without a lot of trouble that ALSO didn't cost much.  The things I didn't care about were pistol-vs-bullpup-vs-rifle and multi-shot-vs-single-shot    There was an extra-point thing for me: if my wife liked it, that choice got bumped to the top of the list.

I quickly identified my purchase and pulled the trigger, and have been very happy with my purchase.  Next time around, I'll go through the same steps.

[FuzzyGrub]

Depending on your 15 year old, the Mrod and the others you mentioned might be too big and/or too heavy for non-bench shooting.    Also, pumping them up, may turn into a big turn-off. 

My suggestion would be a Crosman 1720T with a carbine stock:
- 177 cal, good for yard target shooting, more economical than larger cals
- Does have a match grade LW barrel, so if he gets enticed, can be a starting competition gun
- Single shot, IMO better for a first time gun user (focus on making the shot count)
- Small air chamber, easy to pump to full (around 30 strokes w/Benji)
- Very light, easy to be handled by teenagers.
- Decent two stage adjustable trigger (recommend adding a trigger shoe)

One item you will need for just about any pcp is a chony for tuning.

PS: If there are shooting competitions near you, go check them out.  Some have VERY good deals on the 1720T and Challenger. ie crosman supports them.

PSS: A crosman challenger might also be worth investigating.

[mobilemail]

Depending on your 15 year old, the Mrod and the others you mentioned might be too big and/or too heavy for non-bench shooting.    Also, pumping them up, may turn into a big turn-off. 

My suggestion would be a Crosman 1720T with a carbine stock:
- 177 cal, good for yard target shooting, more economical than larger cals
- Does have a match grade LW barrel, so if he gets enticed, can be a starting competition gun
- Single shot, IMO better for a first time gun user (focus on making the shot count)
- Small air chamber, easy to pump to full (around 30 strokes w/Benji)
- Very light, easy to be handled by teenagers.
- Decent two stage adjustable trigger (recommend adding a trigger shoe)

One item you will need for just about any pcp is a chony for tuning.

PS: If there are shooting competitions near you, go check them out.  Some have VERY good deals on the 1720T and Challenger. ie crosman supports them.

PSS: A crosman challenger might also be worth investigating.

I like this idea. 

[chiro972b]

I LOVE PCP's. I have a bunch of them. Having said that, I don't think it is the best starting point. I love them because I have the support equipment for them and that is not cheap. Pumping is a pain and no matter what you do, you will get moisture inside the gun from pumping. I have a tank and my own dive compressor, but that is around a $4K investment. But it lets me enjoy the guns without worrying about where to get air, or is the air in my gun dry, etc. Not to mention that PCP's leak sometimes and need to be repaired. It is often not feasable to send them back just for an air leak, so you need to be able to work on them. That involves being able to understand the safety measures needed to deal with air that is compressed to 3000 psi. That is potentially life threatening pressure and is nothing to take lightly.

There are some junky springers out there so stay away from those. A RWS 34 or a Weihrauch HW95 would be great guns that are accurate enough, don not need any support equipment and do come with iron sights if you don't want to mount a scope right away. That is where I would start and it is a heck of a lot nicer than anything I had when I was 15. Both guns I mentioned, if cared for, will last a lifetime and bring lots of enjoyment.

Just my humble opinion.

[Extreme]

     Here's my .02 worth. If you go co2 look on the AAC or Baker a good CR180 or 160 would be fun. If you decide springer try a used HW30 .177 or new AOA if PCP is what you are looking for a Sumatra Carbine lever Action would be so much fun. But.......here's the deal. How are you filling? If you purchase a used SCUBA tank can you get it filled? Are you gonna pump? A good Hill pump works the best. Puts your boy to work for his fun!! Sumatra can shoot on low power and adjust as power goes down. Disco and Maximus is a great starter with a 2K fill pressure. Less shots but very good little guns. I purchased my grandsons ea one in .177 with a pump. 11 and 9yrs old. They pump and shoot when we go to our deer lease. Taken many Cotten tail rabbits.
    Best of Luck Brother Man

[moorepower]

I would go with a small reservoir if you are pumping. For me this leaves the Coyote, P-rod, Disco/Maximus and the 1720 with an AR stock adapter. If you want to know it will shoot, get the Disco or Maximus from a tuner, and have him go thru them first. I also have/ like the 1720. It takes about 25 pumps with a FD pump, and I am sure less with a Hill. The Gamo Coyote or Urban is also something I would look at. I love the P-rod, but it honestly need a little tweeking before I was happy. The 1720, I filled and started shooting.

[Old Corps]

I was all set to buy the Coyote until I saw what they want for spare magazines. I'd want a couple of spares which would cost an additional $100! I've got four extra .25 Marauder and four extra .22 AT44-10 (it comes with 2!) mags, a total of 8 mags for less than 2 would cost for the Coyote. $50 a piece!? I don't think so....

Ed

[Zumbooruk]

Example: I wanted a regulated airgun with a good trigger, with a smaller reservoir in either .177 or .22 with a shroud that was adjustable for plinking and pesting and small-game hunting that had could be pumped by hand without a lot of trouble that ALSO didn't cost much.  The things I didn't care about were pistol-vs-bullpup-vs-rifle and multi-shot-vs-single-shot    There was an extra-point thing for me: if my wife liked it, that choice got bumped to the top of the list.

I quickly identified my purchase and pulled the trigger, and have been very happy with my purchase.  Next time around, I'll go through the same steps.

so... what did you get???

seems that what I want is similar enough.

-z