Just ordered the new huma 25 cal reg for marauder

[shorty]

Still no air yet.

Keep in mind guys,
PBguns and mine are running very different porting. This is the key with this 40 FPE tune using the Huma reg along with a short stiff spring or SSG device. I am not sure if you all noticed but PBguns stays at 40 fpe and slowly drops when coming off regulation. Mine goes up and then falls. This is mainly due to the porting.

The other thing I noticed is that this regulator is approximately 1" longer than my 22 huma reg. I should have taken O/D and length numbers for it to calculate the space it is using in the air chamber.
I typically use 190cc for my 22 and I am guessing that this newer reg takes up more space reducing the pressure chamber side. So efficiency number are not really correct at 190cc.

[FuzzyGrub]

Shorty, yea will be trying to simulate PB's for the most part.   On my other Mrods which all have regs, I do follow Scott's recipe of valve mods and LW hammers.  Adding a SSG or short spring to the reg guns is new for me. 

If I receive the reg before you go back in, I'll post dimensions for you.   

[Dairyboy]

I believe I'm going to follow PBs as well. Purchased a used synrod with Huma reg and hill valve/port kit installed already and comes with a WAR SSG not installed which should be here soon. I then ordered a 20gram hammer from hill and some .187 tps from there also. Pairing it with a 22" TJs I have sitting in the safe should get some good numbers. The Huma is set at 2200psi though so might need to drop that a hair.

[shorty]

Working the poop out of this tired benj pump. 20 minutes for 500 psi at a time. This thing is a hunk a junk right now. I am at 2800 psi in the gun now. Almost there.

Anyway,
I shared this on my 22 reg project. It's a spreadsheet that I compiled (not the greatest and formulas that are probably wrong or just plain weird) BUT, it gets you the idea of what your getting into with porting, and "estimated"shot count for different calibers.

What I do is set the gun up the best I can without the regulator and run 8 to 10 shots at a time from 2200/2000psi down to when the gun starts burping of just plain ain't getting the velocity I am looking for. I am also adjusting the hammer spring between the 8 to 10 shots to try and maintain the fpe I am looking for.

I plot and check the efficiency between the 8 to 10 shots groups to see where the most efficient shot string is at the given pressure range.

I then start putting the data into the spread sheet.

First I start at the top left and put in the high pressure volume  (for a non regged marauder 215cc - or 22 huma regged 190cc.
Starting and end pressure can be added but it's really no big deal.
Then I go to lloyds calculator for efficiency and jot that number down. I always forget to do this first.
I then punch in the fpe and adjust the shots to get the efficiency number the same as lloyds.
Next I punch in the barrel ID or caliber (.177/.22/.25)
Then I punch in the regulator pressure. (I change this often to see what affects there are in FPE)
Lastly, I go to the shot count predictor and click in the start and end pressure.
Right under that is the estimated shot count.

With that all being said,
Only input data to the yellow and green highlighted cells. The cells are not locked. Formulas are in other cells. The program should work for any gun.

What I have found useful is that your just not guessing at what to expect when putting in a regulator. You kind of get the idea and balance between power,shot count, and pressure range before you put the reg in.

Last two times now since I have regged my guns, it works for me.

[FuzzyGrub]

I then ordered a 20gram hammer from hill and some .187 tps from there also.

Did you get the one with PEEK striker? 


PS: Looks like reg will arrive tomorrow.

[Nickelsig229]

I installed my huma regulator with gauge port this weekend.

I've got it set to 125 bar using 26grain predator polymag and jsb 25.39 gr. I haven't run a full test on the chrony, I just ran 4 mags through it with a max 747 min 738 fps and stopped. I was anxious to zero and get out after some pests and just wanted to know the fps so I could figure out the trajectory in chairgun. 32 shots on regulator and still more to go.

The only other mod is DIY SSG which is an excellent mod for anyone with a drill press.

Unlike most of you, I'm just trying to get enough fpe to take down pests with in 40 yards, the less the better for sound and safety in the back yard. I'm planning on trying to get it down to 575. That will give me a nice 1/4" Kz trajectory and about 18fpe. I'm interested to see how many shots I get on regulator at that point.

I did have to get new poppets. Thanks to motorhead for the tip, Seems like 3000psi creased it and a new one solved my leaking problem instantly.

Definitely I suggest tying some fishing string or something around the screw for the regulator. It's a pain to get the reg out if you want to make fine adjustments over and over again with out it.

[Dairyboy]

I then ordered a 20gram hammer from hill and some .187 tps from there also.

Did you get the one with PEEK striker? 


PS: Looks like reg will arrive tomorrow.

I didn't as I'm going to use the hammer with the WAR SSG.

[FuzzyGrub]

I didn't as I'm going to use the hammer with the WAR SSG.

Good point     I'd be interested in what the lightweight striker is made out of that comes with that hammer.

[shorty]

Ok,
Well I finally got a 3000 psi fill and some numbers (well almost 3000psi - just under maybe 2900psi). I thought it would have been higher on the shot count but, it is what it is for now.

Stock airtube
25 cal huma reg
.5" hog
.485"cap
Dual dimension poppet spring
.196"porting
.11" probe with shoulder pulled down
My SSS or dual wire spring.

33.95 jsb's targeting 40 fpe ( I plan on running 25.39's )

Starting pressure 2950
Ending pressure just under 2000psi ( possibly 1900/1950)
ES - 3.1%
Shots on regulation - 37

1   719
2   725
3   722
4   718
5   719
6   723
7   720
8   717
9   719
10   724
11   728
12   719
13   725
14   727
15   720
16   726
17   734
18   736
19   718
20   725
21   731
22   724
23   726
24   721
25   719
26   724
27   734
28   733
29   736
30   733
31   733
32   729
33   717
34   734
35   728
36   734
37   740
38   744
39   755
40   765


I thought I was gonna get close to 50 shots but I guess that ain't gonna happen with this porting. Like I said, I think PB guns nailed it with the .161" porting.

Although,
I can't complain and it's pretty darn good for a 25 cal marauder regulated. 5 mag's on a fill from 3000 psi. I do think I can get the 45+ shots if I fill to 3200 psi since it's only showing 26psi per shot.

That's an efficiency of 1.89 on a 25 cal. Pretty cool.

I wish all you guys luck with your Huma regs and your 25 cal marauder tunes.

Total cost:
$399 plus garage work and the reg. Total - 520 bucks.

I really need to get some air so I can see when I tune it to the top of the knee (50 FPE) what kind of shot count comes of it.

Good luck guys.

I really need to sell this 25 or the 22 regged gun to pay for a "real" HPA compressor.

[Nickelsig229]

I'm still getting my feet wet in tuning and regulators but something about your string doesn't add up to me.

My 32 shot string, all be it no mods other then reg and ssg, and with the 25.39's only showed an extreme spread of 9 fps.

Even with the porting and mods you have, shouldn't the regulated shots have a closer spread then 38fps or do they have an effect on the consistency of regulated air.

[Sfttailrdr46]

Not an expert either but I remember an expert on PCP and air volume saying that the chamber volume of the regulated air is critical as is the time between shots which can also have an effect on consistency. Maybe Bsterne or Scott/ Motorhead will chime in  with their knowledge

[wimpanzee]

My .22 huma reg takes 6-8 seconds to fill between shots. Not giving it time to fill the plenum will give me a wider spread of what is otherwise 10fps or less. It's easy to pop shots off too quick when you're just doing chrony strings.

[shorty]

I think Timmy Mac would be the best to chime in here.

Like I said, PBguns nailed the transfer port sizing .16" for 40 fpe. The volume in this huma regulator is more than enough to generate over 50 fpe.

If you study Pbgun's shot strings, he started off with .16" porting with a slightly lower ES than when he opened it up to .18" (i think) ES got more.

These are typical FT tuning practices that Timmy Mac is very familiar with.

I do agree the spread is alot for a regulated gun but 5 mags at 40 FPE at 3% ES is the second (PBguns first) 25 cal marauder to break all records in our marauder history and hear-say.

Nearly 1.9 efficiency.

I had a little problem with the ES on my 22 when I first loaded in the regulator. I was able to drill 2 small holes in the hammer to allow air pass through it instead of compressing it causing extra drag. That helped and got it around 2% or less. I think motorhead does this with his lightweight hammer as well as Hill.

Never-the-less,
This is the first string of a remarkable evolution of regulating a 25 marauder that everyone said it wasn't worth doing.

For all you guys that are planing on regulating your 25, have fun with it. This is a milestone and I am happy to be part of it on GTA.

[PBguns]

Shorty is correct as I changed to the larger transfer port sleeve, my ES got larger also (still trying to understand why).
The .180" transfer port did seem to give me around an additional 5-10fps.

I did the mod suggested by huma (grind one side down the threads on that screw) to help speed up the re-pressurisation of the plenum.
I did try to keep my shots spaced 7-10 seconds apart for each string. I only have two magazines....so I had to reload them a couple times also.
Funny I have a 4-5 magazine tune....and I only own two magazines. Time to go shopping!
I tried one string with a faster rate of fire (shot every 3-5 seconds) the regulator surprisingly kept up with not much effect to the ES.

[3BI5]

It's not the porting size, .19 porting works as good as .16 for 40fpe. The smaller porting may hide other problems like sticky hammer better than big ports. I started plaing with huma reg last year and I got about the same effiency numbers as PBguns now. With .187-.19 TP porting, hogged out stock valve and WAR NBH.  No SSG here. Also I was using reservoir extension so can't compare the results side by side. Now I've gone bottled so I can't go back to stock airtube to retest without the extension.

My ES numbers were not so good at start, I've been chasing down that problem since. No I'm testing glued on buttons on the NBH and it seems to have taken care of the hammer sticking and galling the airtube problems. And it has brought the ES numbers down to 1% level or even under. At 40fpe or 55fpe, it stays the same.
 
What is the set pressure for your huma regulator to get to 50fpe? I know from my own experience that 2000psi set pressure was good for 46fpe with huma reg and ported marauder gauge port piece for little extra plenum volume.

[FuzzyGrub]

opps, posted in wrong thread. 

[FuzzyGrub]

Shorty,

Mine arrived today.  Here are the external dimensions:

Main Body
L: 3.035"
D: 1.050"

Top/adj
L: 0.625"
D: 0.520"

I get about 45cc volume displacement, leaving 170 cc.  I don't know if the 215cc mrod air capacity has taken the stock gauge block into consideration, though.


The integrated gauge block in the Huma is not as open as a "D" style gauge block, like Tim Hills. 

[shorty]

Fuzzygrub,
Thanks for taking the numbers. I am not sure if it take into account the gauge block either. Can you say wholly-molly on the efficiency.

3bI5,
My reg was requested for 1800 psi but my stock pressure gauge shows just under 2000 psi. I can assure you that with the work done to the valve and porting along with the pulling down the bolt probe and running my spring, 50 + fpe can be had a tad lower than 1600 psi. That's my experience.

Take a look at the knee curve numbers. This was all on regulation.
HS turns   FPS   FPE
0.5   669   33.75
1   729   40.7
1.5   769   44.59
2   800   48.26
2.5   818   50.45
3   848   54.22
3.5   866   56.55
4   848   54.22


You are absolutely correct when you say .196" porting is the same as .16" when running 40 fpe. All the rest of the mess (hammer,spring,travel, ect) becomes more of a big deal with larger porting.
It's just much easier to control a transfer port sleeve than pulling an entire overhaul of the delivery system.

Then again,
It's how you want your gun to perform for what you intend to do with it. For me, I can deal with a 3% or under ES at 40 fpe and up to 75 yards. I can also deal with running a 30 FPE tune with well over 60 shots or possibly a 50 fpe tune for just under 30 shots.

Please keep in mind,
For me to change from a 30 fpe tune to a 55 fpe tune is as easy as turning the 1/4" screw for the hammer spring.

[FuzzyGrub]

If I measured and did the math right, 215cc does not include the gauge block.  At least on a Gen II.  Subtracting the gauge block from reg, get 188cc, close to your original 190cc estimate. 

[3BI5]

Here's the string I did today. The buttons on the hammer have been there now for 3 or 4 tins worth of shooting and I wanted to show you how the string looks. I'm having problems with my regulator, the plenum pressure drops little by little as the reservoir pressure drops, so the velocities go down little by little, don't mind that look at the shot to shot variation. The first shot is at 2000psi regulated pressure, second 1900psi then it levels to 1800psi for a while and the last shot is only at 1650 plenum pressure. While I was using Huma regulator I never had any problems at all, but this ninja copy regulator doesn't want to work at all. But the buttons seem to be doing their job, the shot to shot variation is getting to be ok even with the regulator problems. There are still occasional big jumps (10-12fps max) at velocity, but before the buttons the jumps were twice as big. If the regulated pressure would stay where it should, I'd say this would be quite a nice string with ES close to 1% for a lot of shots.

The gun is gen2 Synrod turned in to a MRDL bullpup with 480cc cf bottle and large porting.I used Caldwell chrono and JSB Kings 25.39gr.
        
1   905 3000psi
   2   901
   3   896
   4   893
   5   889
   6   893
   7   892
   8   893 2870psi
    9   892
   10   893
   11   887
   12   886
   13   886
   14   891
   15   889
   16   889 2750psi
    17   887
   18   886
   19   883
   20   884
   21   882
   22   882
   23   882
   24   887 2650psi
   25   898
   26   886
    27   883
   28   885
   29   887
   30   883
    31   881
   32   880 2500psi
    33   884
   34   882
   35   883
   36   880
   37   878
   38   883
   39   error
   40   883 2400psi
    41   887
   42   882
    43   880
    44   879
   45   877
   46   878
    47   871
   48   873 2300psi
   49   879
   50   872
   51   870
   52   872
   53   872
   54   872
   55   879
   56   871 2200psi
   57   874
   58   879
   59   878
   60   874
   61   870
   62   866
   63   869
   64   873 2100psi
   65   error
   66   865
   67   876
   68   867
   69   867
   70   864
   71   870
   72   867
   73   872
   74   868
   75   871
   76   865
   77   868
   78   867
   79   870
   80   867 1900psi
   81   867
   82   868
   83   864
   84   865
   85   859
   86   862
   87   861
   88   866 1800psi
   89   863
   90   859
   91   849
   92   862
   93   852
   94   852
   95   846
   96   849 1720psi