Reality Check -Rogue-

[CO2 Freak]

Well said, Lloyd....

Bob

x2

[Jerry]

But then as soon as a thread with negative info starts up, the same chatter will return.  So what’s the point?

Lloyd,

The point is that we can generally see through undeserved negative chatter as well as we can see through unsupported positive claims.  The Rogue does some neat stuff and your bench gun does some amazing stuff!  However, if someone tells me a gun will shoot 4 shots at 250FPE using a 175gr bullet and then later posts that it really does 3 shots at 195FPE with 170gr bullets, well, yeah, I'm going to be a little leery of the hype.  Telling me I missed the point of the gun after making a point of the 4 shots at 250 is a little condescending and ticks me off.  3 tight shots at 195 isn't bad, but it sure isn't 4 at 250!  Sorry if I missed the point!  I was just reading along!

[melvin]

You know Jeff, my Philosophy is that unless a PCP is significantly more powerfull than a springer/nitro of the same caliber i really have absolutely 0 interest in them, for me PCP it's all about power, if I have to have a 20 FPE PCP I'll rather get a Nitro anyday.

Minimum FPE before I consider a PCP has to be 45-50 on rifles and 30 for pistols.

To a certain extent I agree with you that I'll want them all, owever, Quote from JonnyReb

"I have to apreciate some phisical aspects of the gun to be able to bond properly" ...well something along those lines when you where talking about the 909s

....Man it's gonna be hard to develope a bond with that monstrosity of the Rouge

Cant have a repeating nitro though.  To anyone that thinks they are so good the can kill everything they shoot with one shot.  I know that isn't true so don't say you can.

[Nomadic Pirate]

LOL, you are quoting me ?....well my post was in reply to the suggestion of buying a Disco, as far as I know the Disco is a single shot so I stick to my Grounds about a Nitro

[melvin]

Oh I figured you ment all PCPs.  Yeah I can see that being valid.  My friend bought a Nitro and I will have to admit I was very impressed.

[melvin]

It was about the rouge

[Nomadic Pirate]

Agree,
Just about any PCP I have is a repeter, just got rid of the AirForce TalonP because of the single shot.
 Looking to get the New Evanix .357 BullPup Semi to replace the DAQ as a BushGun....But I will still stay away from the Rogue for sure

[melvin]

Agree, Just about any PCP I have is a repeter, Looking to get the New Evanix .357 ....But I will still stay away from the Rogue for sure

My next PCP will be a .357  Think I might wait till bonus time for that one.

[melloroadman]

As a potential customer I have been talking to several reps at Crosman . Some have refused to answer my questions stating that the enginering department will not release the info . When told that the info I wanted was freely given by all other BB makers in the US and I could not buy with out it . I still was not given the info . Not good IMO.
I asked if SWC , WC , or RF could be chambered with the clip . I was told that the only bullets that have been tested are the Nosler line and their own line . That there could still be a problem with RF and heavy WC . But a single load tray is in the works .
The barrel is a 6 land 6 groove right twist at 1 in 16 . with a .351 land and a .357 groove . If some one gets fired over this it is not my fault . Crosman needs to understand that this is not a $ 89.00 Quest at wally world . It is a $1200 - $ 1500 rifle .
Due to the limited testing of bullet types I am on hold again and I might add that I went throw way more than I should have had too to get this info . Marvin

[Sipsey]

Hey Guys,
Just discovered this forum. Read most all the threads on the Rogue. Maybe I can lend some hopefully unbiased perspective on the performance of this thing in the near future. My daughter and son in law ordered me one around last Thanksgiving. It just came in 3 weeks ago. I had written an article on the history of big bores for an in state mag. and let them read it before sending it in. I also included the Rogue and they ordered me one for a Christmas present.  ( lucky me) 

I don't think I would have spent that much on an airgun. But I have been a semi- serious shooter for many years. Mostly a hunter but I do have a buddy that works up handloads for a 30.06 & 7mm.08. Also shoot a 225lb. Excalibur crossbow that will shoot same hole out to 50 yds.( with a steady hand)

Anyway, after trying two scopes and sighting in with the 145 Noslers I got some 95gr. hp and hope to see what kind of groups this thing will produce . Sorry I don't have a chrony but I can at least correlate press. readings as they relate shot strings. I will say it works fine with a hand pump , since I have only shot it 25 times with 2 scopes I can only say that seems to have potential and I have no air leaks at this point. It's been holding steady at about 2300 for a week or so.

[uncle paulie]

Welcome to the GTA Sipsey! Glad you found us! Lots of great folks and info here. I'm sure you'll find plenty of interest in your review of the Rogue, as you've seen, it's a pretty charged topic around here. Can't wait for the reports as they progress....don't forget, we love pix!

pv

[badredbird]

can anyone who owns one tell me how they print? accuracy is everything to me at least, i also have an exomax sips, great xbow i can put fist size group at 60 yds , i have korean airguns , all the calibers they shoot very nice groups, but i do wonder how good the rogue does shoot, what kind of ammo does it like?

[Butcher45]

Secondly, a big bore shooting more than 2 shots is a breakthrough performance. 

No, it isn't......not even close.  Every production bigbore available on the market can do better than that.  Where did you hear this?  When testing my buddies older stock 909 it produced a 7 shot string of 606.4 612.70 619.4 616.3 616.4 605.5 594.85fps using 245grain slugs.  That was the only test we did with that boolit, with just one 3000psi fill.  Walter up in Canada has produced similar results testing another stock 909 up there, so these results are likely typical ones that would be produced by many 909 rifles.

The Rogue is delivering 3-21 shots with a variety of weights and fpe making it a never-seen-before performance.

Until you post the fps spread of the string, I have to say that I have seen that performance, as I can get the same shot count out of a 2tube 909 if not better.  I know I can get 18 shots out of my tuned (yes, it was tuned) 909 averaging 600fps using the low power setting, and get a greater fpe average than the Rogue's low power string as well.  I could have shot it down further, but saw no need at the time.  Both of these examples would have a ridiculous fps variance, of course, but you have yet to establish just what the fps spread is of the Rogue's shot string, so I am going on the assumption that there was no fps spread criteria in your testing until I find out otherwise.

There are some false recollections about the Rogue's performance claims so I'll clear that up with our most current research:

Grain/Power StartPSI EndPSI FPE PSI/shot #shots
170 HIGH    3000    2600    195    173.0   3
170 MED    3000    2100    171    115.2   9
170 LOW    3000    1550    133 73.1   21

145 HIGH    3000    2700    181    122.3   3
145 MED    3000    2300    158    88.9 9
145 LOW    2700    1600    132    69.1 16

100 HIGH    3000    2400    147    110.2   6
100 MED    2600    1700    111    68.3 13
100 LOW    2200    1250    80    54.1 18

No false recollections here.....you said 20 shots at 150fpe on low power.  I think you said 4 shots@250fpe as well?  To most any airgunner, that doesn't mean an AVERAGE of 150fpe, it means that each shot produces 150fpe as would be expected from the advanced technology of the e-valve.  How does a bigbore air rifle that shoots 175gr bullets at 250fpe for 4 shots, only manage 195fpe with 170gr bullets for 3 shots?  That is a HUGE difference that goes beyond what any difference in boolit design, and 5 grains of weight brings in a mechanical valve air rifle.

Looks like you MIGHT (haven't seen the fps spread yet) be close to fulfilling the 20 shots@150fpe claim.  Trouble is, those shots aren't useful with the 170grain slugs you used to get there, as they are going less than 600fps.  When I think low power, I think high shot count with lightweight slugs at a useful velocity for hitting small targets like sqwerls and rabbits which require a flatter trajectory than sub-600fps provides.  Taking that into consideration, at low power you are getting 18 shots with the 100grainers, but the velocity is only 600fps......pretty weak for a PCP air rifle of any sort be it pellet gun, or bigbore, and we still have NO IDEA what the fps spread was on that string as well.

In my eyes, a useable shot string falls within a 30fps maximum fps variance (and that is pushing it....I usually insist on 20fps maximum variance when doing my own testing).

I posted a question on Predatormasters on Feb 8th asking who on the forum was shooting bigbore airguns.  I've been a member there for years, and was the first to document killing a coyote with a bigbore airgun on there which earned me Hunter of the Month honors, and prompted the editor of my favorite predator hunting magazine to request I write an article for them on bigbore airguns which I happily accepted.  I bumped-up the thread a couple of times to be certain it wasn't missed by the readership that shoot air rifles.  A couple of guys indicated they owned, or were about to own Korean bigbores but that was it.  I am a member of close to 2 dozen sporting forums online, and periodically check-in with all of them.  No Rogue owners to be found on any of them.  The only reports of folks I have heard of that shot a Rogue and want one, came from your pro-staffers that let someone shoot their rifle, or the rifle at the SHOT show.

What are we to make of all that?