F.A.M.E concept, different approach

[SynRodSteve]

Got a few more set screws and finished the latest hammer and SSG.  I've got it in the gun now and will test later this week.  The part next to the hammer is a piece of aluminum bored out to same size as air tube to be used for setting the set screw height without taking my gun apart.  If I get to the point of making these, this will get the initial settings close.  The first pic is the top of the hammer, the second is the side so you can see one of the front nylon tips and one of the rear.

[Motorhead]

You may very well break a sear with that style 

The sear may very likely try and set into the recess area as you cock the action, then set before the forward face of hammer is drawn back far enough. Now sear is in a mechanical bind and further drawing back bolt to cock action is going break the sear !!
*Make note that sear holding hammer is spring loaded upward against the hammer. As action fires the sear is going to follow the curved profile and is going to get violently flipped around ... that can't be good !!

Also IF you get it cocked correctly, as fired the sear will fall away as it should but is allowed to rise as the smile cut passes by and could ( If your getting off the trigger quickly reset itself and then get mechanically bound up again breaking the sear parts 

There is a REASON the hammer is flat against the sear holding the hammer 

Just an observation .....
Scott

[SynRodSteve]

Yup....fatal flaw in this design...ughhh!  Thx.  And I was so proud of myself! 

[Motorhead]

Yup....fatal flaw in this design...ughhh!  Thx.  And I was so proud of myself! 

I feel for you ... honestly do !
better to catch this now before it costs more than just ones time 

[SynRodSteve]

How appropriate is your profile signature today???   "EXPERIENCE" ... Our Reward For Lifes Mistakes".   I gained some 'experience' today!  Somehow though, it doesn't feel at all like a 'reward' 

[aPpYe]

I am not sure I follow ... I thought you were going to go with having 4 on the front and 4 on the rear.  I am seeing the same design as before on the set screws ...

You may very well break a sear with that style 

The sear may very likely try and set into the recess area as you cock the action, then set before the forward face of hammer is drawn back far enough. Now sear is in a mechanical bind and further drawing back bolt to cock action is going break the sear !!
*Make note that sear holding hammer is spring loaded upward against the hammer. As action fires the sear is going to follow the curved profile and is going to get violently flipped around ... that can't be good !!

Also IF you get it cocked correctly, as fired the sear will fall away as it should but is allowed to rise as the smile cut passes by and could ( If your getting off the trigger quickly reset itself and then get mechanically bound up again breaking the sear parts 

There is a REASON the hammer is flat against the sear holding the hammer 

Just an observation .....
Scott

Hmm.  I am not sure I follow, unless things work differently on a Marauder than they do on a Discovery.  I can see how the sear may hang up a bit on cocking, because the spring is holding it against the hammer.  Even then, I would think it is gradual enough of a curve to allow the sear to ride along without binding.  What I am having trouble understanding is how one could release the hammer and then release the trigger fast enough to send the sear back up into the hammer while it is still moving forward...  I am not seeing how the sear is going to make its way up into the curved profile of the hammer when firing.  What am I missing?  My experience is only with Discoveries ...

[Motorhead]

Here a picture off the internet of a M-rod trigger group ...


The dark grey color hammer holding sear ( Up top ) is fully floating able to move up/down as well @ 1/8" end to end.
As hammer is drawn back a small leaf spring lifts this sear up in front of the hammer face and then the sears holding edge up front sets on intermediate link / lower sear.( The golden color part )

Being THIS is a floating holding sear with a spring ALWAYS lifting it, it will follow the profile of hammer as it passes overhead. If a smile profile as shown by OP is present it will follow the profile moving up / down along with it.

[SynRodSteve]

I don't have the nylon set screws yet to put 4 front and back. Next one will have that. I looked closely at the sear issue. I actually think it will work ok but there is a risk of things hanging up and breaking parts. Cocking is not an issue as the slope is very gradual and doesn't really cause an issue. I worry more about AFTER the shot if the back end of the hammer ends up past the sear. I'm not sure yet if that would happen. I dry fired it several times before Motörhead pointed out the potential issue. I still may mess with this one but the next ones will have 8 set screws and will leave material on bottom of hammer like OEM. Ive not given up on this concept as it works REALLY well.

[Motorhead]

Could always machine bottom of hammer to hold a delrin / nylon section or even a small diameter rod in a slot such as a SS spoke that sets over the trigger mechanics to keep the sear depressed at all times but the cocking sequence ?

[SynRodSteve]

@ Motorhead. The sear 'up' travel is also limited by the slot in the air tube. The part of the sear to the rear of the hammer holding point hits the end of the slot limiting its upward travel. That doesn't help the sitch but it can only follow the hammer profile until the end of the slot stops it.

[Motorhead]

@ Motorhead. The sear 'up' travel is also limited by the slot in the air tube. The part of the sear to the rear of the hammer holding point hits the end of the slot limiting its upward travel. That doesn't help the sitch but it can only follow the hammer profile until the end of the slot stops it.

Still don't want these known fragile holding sears FLIPPING about

[SynRodSteve]

Ya I agree.  The only reason I did it this way was to further reduce the weight of my custom hammer.  It was too heavy, even with the original OEM type slots machined into it.  I need to look for a little lighter material I think.  This is just stuff I had on hand.

[aPpYe]

Here a picture off the internet of a M-rod trigger group ...


The dark grey color hammer holding sear ( Up top ) is fully floating able to move up/down as well @ 1/8" end to end.
As hammer is drawn back a small leaf spring lifts this sear up in front of the hammer face and then the sears holding edge up front sets on intermediate link / lower sear.( The golden color part )

Being THIS is a floating holding sear with a spring ALWAYS lifting it, it will follow the profile of hammer as it passes overhead. If a smile profile as shown by OP is present it will follow the profile moving up / down along with it.

Huh.  I guess it's time for bed for me then!  I am used to the simple single stage trigger I have been using.  Are all two stage triggers like this, in the sense that the sear is always pushed against the hammer, even when it is firing?  This boggles the mind.  I guess I would need to see the trigger in person, and not be so tired.  Is the PRod trigger like this?  I was thinking of getting one of those for my gun.

[FuzzyGrub]

Is the PRod trigger like this? 

Yes the sear rubs along the bottom of the hammer. 

[aPpYe]

I thought I might share some pics of how I did it on my discovery.  This was one I did today, and it came out much better than the first one I did several days ago...  Basically, I drilled eight 1/16" holes about 1/8" deep into the hammer, jammed some lengths of 1/16" nylon rod into the holes and filed them down to size.  They all stick out of the hammer about .005" - .007" ... There is perhaps .010" - .013" difference in diameter between the hammer and the tube ...

This is supposedly a brand new hammer I got from Crosman just yesterday.  Look how filthy it is, and this is AFTER scrubbing it with soap and water!  It looks like someone left it sitting outside in the mud for a couple of decades ...  I thought about polishing it, but figured it unnecessary with this mod, other than where it contacts the sear.  The hammer feels like it just floats back and forth in the tube, almost completely frictionless, even with that rough, unpolished surface... 

The black nubs are actually white nylon, but I marked them with a sharpie as I finished them just so I wouldn't accidentally file them down while working on the next ones. 

I am thinking that if I were to machine my own hammer, I might actually make it a bit smaller in diameter, opening up the clearances some, as the hammer no longer needs to have any contact with the tube.  This would allow for more wear to occur on the nylon.  I don't know how long I should be expecting .006" worth of nylon to last before the hammer starts to come into contact with the tube again.  How durable is it for this application?  I do know it was much more resistant to the file than the acrylic did.  I really had to push on it to get it to file down.

[SynRodSteve]

Good job. Definitely easier than tapping those holes. I agree that you want as much as .015 hammer to air tube clearance.  The one I have in mine right now only has about .005 and while that 'works' ok, it would be better with more clearance. Definitely needed for 8 nylon tips. Mine currently only has 4...2 on top front, 2 on bottom rear. My nylon screws are on the way and when I get them I'll reduce my hammer diameter to .015 under air tube and then use 8 of them to float the hammer.

[SynRodSteve]

Finally got around to testing my F.I.F.H. (FAME inspired Floating Hammer) in my 25 cal synrod and am pretty happy with the results.  I ended up using the hammer with the 'smile', but cut a 3/16" notch on the bottom rear flat part (past the smile) so that if the hammer travels that far, it will not try to push the sear back down.  I took a marking pen and colored the bottom of the hammer and see NO contact of the sear in that area.  The only place where I see ANY contact (and it's very light) is the beginning of the smile.  This is where the sear contacts as the hammer is pulled back during cocking.  Cocking is RIDICULOUSLY smooth with the 14.8lb spring.  I am still only using nylon tips on top front and bottom rear (two each) and am convinced that is all that's needed.  The difference between this hammer cocking and stock is HUGE.  Here is the string I ran this morning.  Pretty happy with 18 shots at 3.47% ES while using just 681 lbs of air from a 2735 fill.

[Taso1000]

Steve,

Maybe you can bore through your hammer to lighten it and retain the diameter for the sear?  I bored through a B51 hammer with a cheap drill press.  It was not easy even with a carbide tipped drill bit.  But my drill press wobbles so that was part of the difficulty.

My hammers were hollow but since yours are solid there will be a bigger mass reduction.  You could also bore the centers out.  Just a couple ideas.

Taso

[Taso1000]

Well it looks like I can't edit my posts.  I forgot to add my pictures to my previous post. 

So here they are.

Taso

[SynRodSteve]

When I started my SSG/custom hammer project, I had an idea of being able to swap out a gap adjuster for completely repeatable results.  My thought was that I wanted one setting for small game/plinking and one for hunting coyote's, but didn't want to rely on unprecise settings of the gap screw when in the field and no chrony to test with.  I made a custom end cap that was deeper than stock, allowing for a longer bolt and spring.  I also made what I call a gap adjuster cartridge that screws into the back of the end cap by hand and houses the 10-32 set screw that adjusts the gap.  I have 2 cartridges that I use.  One for coyote's and one for small game/plinking.  The coyote cartridge gap is much smaller than the small game/plinking cartridge gap.  I have adjusted the spring so that I get the results I need for either just by changing out gap adjuster cartridge. 
Today was the 1st time I really tested using two different cartridges and below are some pictures of my end cap set up, as well as 2 strings I ran.  The 1st string is with JSB exact kings and the 2nd string is with JSB heavies.  The only thing I did was swap my gap adjuster cartridge.  I am very happy these results.

Here is the custom end cap with the gap adjuster cartridge removed. 



The two gap adjuster cartridges.  You can see one is set for a smaller gap than the other.



Gap adjuster cartridge partially screwed in



All the way in.  This is why results are repeatable because the cartridge always seats against the end cap.



Here's the small game/plinking string using JSB's and the 'larger gap' cartridge.



Here's the coyote string.  The only change was putting in the 'smaller gap' cartridge (and JSB heavies vs JSB's).  60 FPE and .78% spread? Coyotes beware!!!