.25 Armada SSG/Huma/19g Hammer **updated 42fpe/40shot/1.28%es **

[PBguns]

Ok think I corrected all the fields I failed to catch the first time (hopefully).

Here is 32shots plotted (filling from 3,000-2,200psi) w/190cc res volume:



Here is 38shots plotted, same string showing if shot down to 2,000 psi and falling off reg:



 

[Motorhead]

Most excellent ... GREAT job !

[PBguns]

Most excellent ... GREAT job !

Thank's Scott.

Think there is anything more to squeeze out of it?
I'm happy 4 mags @ 41fpe
It's the quietest it has ever been (by far). And I have spent a lot of time in that dept.
I'm happy with a medium power tune, that has a good shot count, is super stealth, & a tight ES! 


   

[PBguns]

Looks like a 3,200 fill will give me 5 magazines before it drops of the reg:

Created: 10/10/16 09:33 PM
Description: Armada/huma 3200psi fill
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 25.39
Temp: 64 °F
BP: 29.97 inHg
Altitude: 0.00
#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
56    790      35.19    20.06
55    794      35.55    20.16
54    797      35.82    20.24
53    802      36.27    20.36
52    804      36.45    20.41
51    810      37.00    20.57
50    813      37.27    20.64
49    817      37.64    20.74
48    821      38.01    20.85
47    824      38.29    20.92
46    830      38.84    21.07
45    830      38.84    21.07
44    835      39.31    21.20
43    836      39.41    21.23
42    837      39.50    21.25
41    842      39.98    21.38
40    849      40.64    21.56
39    850      40.74    21.58
38    848      40.55    21.53
37    847      40.45    21.51
36    847      40.45    21.51
35    848      40.55    21.53
34    848      40.55    21.53
33    848      40.55    21.53
32    850      40.74    21.58
31    850      40.74    21.58
30    848      40.55    21.53
29    847      40.45    21.51
28    852      40.93    21.63
27    851      40.84    21.61
26    851      40.84    21.61
25    847      40.45    21.51
24    845      40.26    21.45
23    845      40.26    21.45
22    840      39.79    21.33
21    842      39.98    21.38
20    844      40.17    21.43
19    846      40.36    21.48
18    846      40.36    21.48
17    850      40.74    21.58
16    849      40.64    21.56
15    850      40.74    21.58
14    850      40.74    21.58
13    849      40.64    21.56
12    852      40.93    21.63
11    851      40.84    21.61
10    850      40.74    21.58
9    853      41.03    21.66
8    854      41.12    21.68
7    854      41.12    21.68
6    856      41.32    21.73
5    858      41.51    21.78
4    855      41.22    21.71
3    854      41.12    21.68
2    853      41.03    21.66
1    853      41.03    21.66
Average: 840.4 FPS
SD: 17.3 FPS
Min: 790 FPS
Max: 858 FPS
Spread: 68 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 840 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

[ackuric]

Impressive! 40 shots regulated @ 40 fpe with 1%es is great. Wonder what the max psi the regulator can take, 3400 psi fills for 48 shots wouldn't be out of mind if the regulator were up to the task.

Wanna trade rifles and do it all over again? Lol

[FuzzyGrub]

Exceptional!      

[shorty]

Mike,
I am thinking you can get more out of it in regards to FPE and shot count. My goal is 50+ shots at 40 fpe using an 1800 psi reg setting. The difference between ours is the porting which allows a lower pressure to be used for the same power level.

Since you have a Hill valve in there ( I think he uses .16"exit on the valve ) you can change out the transfer port sleeve and drill the barrel to matching .16" porting. In theory, your efficiency should go up at your current reg setting and same 40 fpe power level.
No need to pull out the valve. Everything is after the valve.

For example,
My .196" porting through and through can hit 38 fpe at 1100 psi where at .14" porting it will only achieve 18fpe/24 fpe. In theory, when I come off regulation at 1800 psi, I should get a small bell curve opening the ES slightly greater than 2.5%. I am doing this on purpose because there is a balance between shot count and power levels when using a regulator. I want to have a really high efficiency 40 fpe 25 cal but still be able to hit 50+fpe with somewhat of a shot count (30+ shots-plus reg drop off).

So to answer your question in my opinion, yes, you should be able to squeeze out more shots at that power level.

Although,
You do (as of right now) have the best regulated 25 cal marauder that I have read about.

I have to recap this one so everyone understands how your getting nearly 40 FPE with nearly 50 shots regulated using a 25 cal marauder.

Buy a 25 marauder - 400 to 500 bucks
Install an after market valve - 120 to 150 bucks ( do it yourself - 10 bucks for drill bits)
Install a huma reg (gauge port style) - 120 to 150 bucks
Run an SSG - 80 bucks or so
Run a light weight hammer - 50 bucks or so

Total:
840 bucks.

Set reg to 2200 psi and let her rip.

I for one do not know of any off the shelf 25 cal that can be had at that price with the power level and shot count. Completely impressed with this platform.

[PBguns]

Mike,
I am thinking you can get more out of it in regards to FPE and shot count. My goal is 50+ shots at 40 fpe using an 1800 psi reg setting. The difference between ours is the porting which allows a lower pressure to be used for the same power level.

Since you have a Hill valve in there ( I think he uses .16"exit on the valve ) you can change out the transfer port sleeve and drill the barrel to matching .16" porting. In theory, your efficiency should go up at your current reg setting and same 40 fpe power level.
No need to pull out the valve. Everything is after the valve.

For example,
My .196" porting through and through can hit 38 fpe at 1100 psi where at .14" porting it will only achieve 18fpe/24 fpe. In theory, when I come off regulation at 1800 psi, I should get a small bell curve opening the ES slightly greater than 2.5%. I am doing this on purpose because there is a balance between shot count and power levels when using a regulator. I want to have a really high efficiency 40 fpe 25 cal but still be able to hit 50+fpe with somewhat of a shot count (30+ shots-plus reg drop off).

So to answer your question in my opinion, yes, you should be able to squeeze out more shots at that power level.

Although,
You do (as of right now) have the best regulated 25 cal marauder that I have read about.

I have to recap this one so everyone understands how your getting nearly 40 FPE with nearly 50 shots regulated using a 25 cal marauder.

Buy a 25 marauder - 400 to 500 bucks
Install an after market valve - 120 to 150 bucks ( do it yourself - 10 bucks for drill bits)
Install a huma reg (gauge port style) - 120 to 150 bucks
Run an SSG - 80 bucks or so
Run a light weight hammer - 50 bucks or so

Total:
840 bucks.

Set reg to 2200 psi and let her rip.

I for one do not know of any off the shelf 25 cal that can be had at that price with the power level and shot count. Completely impressed with this platform.

When it comes to tuning pcp's, I'm learning as I go (tons of info out there I need to sit and marinade in).
I still have a lot to learn, and nowhere near as much knowledge as most members on here.
But from what I do know I agree more can be obtained from my tune, (more of a gut feeling than an educated one honestly).
Thanks for the TP input.....looks like I'll be pulling breech off tonight!
I'll post back results later tonight.
Thanks Shorty!!!

* my Huma gauge port reg was $112.27 shipped to my door direct from Huma in the Netherlands.
* SSG spring used was the heavy spring that came with the first version WAR SSG (at that time it came with two springs).
 

[shorty]

Yea good deal Mike.

I just gave rough numbers for guys or gals that buy stuff off the shelf or have their guns tuned.

For me,
I paid 399 bucks for my gen 2 and 120 bucks for the reg. I did all the work myself so, that puts it at around 520 bucks. So when people think about getting their 25  cal tuned by a professional, they remember us and know how much they should pay for what's available.

[PBguns]

Ok, just took a spare TP (glad I ordered 3 to play with) and bored it out to .162 on the lathe.
I won't be able to scrounge any time to play until later tonight.

[shorty]

On those stock TP's, I think you can only go to around .15" to .155" before it get's to thin.

It might fit nicely but, they fold sometimes when fired.

Don't forget,
If you do the TP, you have to do the barrel too. And, the .16" exit port on the Hill valve is an old historical guess. Best to gauge that exit port before going further with the back of a drill bit.

[PBguns]

On those stock TP's, I think you can only go to around .15" to .155" before it get's to thin.

It might fit nicely but, they fold sometimes when fired.

Don't forget,
If you do the TP, you have to do the barrel too. And, the .16" exit port on the Hill valve is an old historical guess. Best to gauge that exit port before going further with the back of a drill bit.

Yeah its pretty thin now....Made a second out of delrin in case I run into a failure (had the same thoughts).
I opened up the barrel port also (still need to deburr and polish there).
I didn't have time to look at valve yet, that's what remains (and re-assembly tonight).

[PBguns]

Another major note....

I was wrong on what I thought I had previously bored the TP out to (I had thought I drilled it out to .140).
I had already drilled it out to .159" or a #20 bit (I remember now enlarging it a second time). Not sure enlarging the TP to .162 will provide much.
But the barrel was not opened up prior to tonight (OEM barrel port on mine was exactly .147"). So when I drilled that to .162" hopefully it will still have a noticeable effect.

Just trying to share as much as possible.

[Rallyshark]

That is a very impressive shot string!  Great work!  If your gun will shoot the 19 grain H&Ns well, that would get that velocity up for a flatter trajectory, if needed. 

[PBguns]

On those stock TP's, I think you can only go to around .15" to .155" before it get's to thin.

It might fit nicely but, they fold sometimes when fired.

Don't forget,
If you do the TP, you have to do the barrel too. And, the .16" exit port on the Hill valve is an old historical guess. Best to gauge that exit port before going further with the back of a drill bit.

Mine (just measured) is at .180" (came that large).

[PBguns]

That is a very impressive shot string!  Great work!  If your gun will shoot the 19 grain H&Ns well, that would get that velocity up for a flatter trajectory, if needed. 

I haven't  tried those pellets yet.

[PBguns]

Ok..... assembled with matching .162" TP & barrel port.
Filled to 3,200psi and ran another string.
If I cut it off at 5 magazines/40 shots, that gives me a 1.64%es (not complaining).
How much of a difference would it make if I got the TP & barrel port closer to that .180" of the valve?

Created: 10/11/16 09:51 PM
Description: .25 Armada w/ Huma
Notes 1: 3,200psi fill
Notes 2: .162″ transfer port
Distance to Chrono(FT): 1.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight(gr): 25.39
Temp: 60 °F
BP: 30.02 inHg
Altitude: 0.00
#          FPS  FT-LBS      PF
56    788      35.01    20.01
55    793      35.46    20.13
54    797      35.82    20.24
53    801      36.18    20.34
52    806      36.63    20.46
51    808      36.81    20.52
50    814      37.36    20.67
49    818      37.73    20.77
48    823      38.19    20.90
47    824      38.29    20.92
46    827      38.56    21.00
45    832      39.03    21.12
44    835      39.31    21.20
43    838      39.60    21.28
42    841      39.88    21.35
41    848      40.55    21.53
40    845      40.26    21.45
39    847      40.45    21.51
38    851      40.84    21.61
37    854      41.12    21.68
36    850      40.74    21.58
35    846      40.36    21.48
34    851      40.84    21.61
33    854      41.12    21.68
32    855      41.22    21.71
31    851      40.84    21.61
30    851      40.84    21.61
29    853      41.03    21.66
28    855      41.22    21.71
27    850      40.74    21.58
26    852      40.93    21.63
25    851      40.84    21.61
24    850      40.74    21.58
23    852      40.93    21.63
22    850      40.74    21.58
21    848      40.55    21.53
20    853      41.03    21.66
19    853      41.03    21.66
18    856      41.32    21.73
17    859      41.61    21.81
16    854      41.12    21.68
15    858      41.51    21.78
14    852      40.93    21.63
13    849      40.64    21.56
12    851      40.84    21.61
11    856      41.32    21.73
10    858      41.51    21.78
9    856      41.32    21.73
8    849      40.64    21.56
7    856      41.32    21.73
6    853      41.03    21.66
5    846      40.36    21.48
4    854      41.12    21.68
3    850      40.74    21.58
2    855      41.22    21.71
1    849      40.64    21.56
Average: 842.4 FPS
SD: 18.3 FPS
Min: 788 FPS
Max: 859 FPS
Spread: 71 FPS
Shot/sec: 0.1
True MV: 842 FPS
Group Size (in): 0.00

[FuzzyGrub]

Interesting.  Essentially no change.   I was expecting the power to go up some, and then you would need to lower the set point to get more shots at 40fpe. 

Is that saying it is being limited elsewhere?  maybe plenum size?   

[PBguns]

Interesting.  Essentially no change.   I was expecting the power to go up some, and then you would need to lower the set point to get more shots at 40fpe. 

Is that saying it is being limited elsewhere?  maybe plenum size?   

I was going to guess my hammer weight (being only 19g). Motorhead seems to have better luck 28g or around that weight.
Not saying it couldn't be the plenum, but the gauge port reg I thought the plenum was specially made for the .25 mrod.

[Motorhead]

Interesting.  Essentially no change.   I was expecting the power to go up some, and then you would need to lower the set point to get more shots at 40fpe. 

Is that saying it is being limited elsewhere?  maybe plenum size?   

I was going to guess my hammer weight (being only 19g). Motorhead seems to have better luck 28g or around that weight.
Not saying it couldn't be the plenum, but the gauge port reg I thought the plenum was specially made for the .25 mrod.

In this past year once playing with SSG's in the regulated guns ... found when loosing the pre load against poppet created by hammer spring the required WEIGHT of hammer increased.
One could use a heavier hammer spring increasing the speed and energy of the striking of poppet, but cocking effort increases doing so.

A hammer at just 19 grams used with an SSG devise I see having very limited dwell to make higher power in a .25 cal gun unless Poppet head was reduced in diameter / area to allow easier valve opening effort.

Just my thoughts here & nothing else