Rethinking my direction...312 tootsie

[Hoosier Daddy]

I got involved with GTA because I loved the idea of modding a simple 1377 into a better airgun.
I wanted the Crosman / Benjamins of my youth and found they made a similar version in the 392. bought a nice used one here from grimeszee, LOVE IT!
Then found out here about "springers" and picked up the Beeman Silver Kodiak. Decent all weather gun I guess... well... sorta.
Next read here all the praises of the Hatsan 95... had to have one.
That experience has left a bad taste in my mouth. It is currently being resolved with PA, and I will give it another chance... but, I still think modern manufacturing leaves something to be desired. USA or abroad.
I am a tinkerer... love taking something old and making it like or better than new.  be it cars, motorcycles, campers, heck even fish poles and cast iron cookware.
I drool here on the Sheridan / Benjamin rifles and pistols of yesteryear especially the 342 I had growing up. Even the Crosman 1400 is appealing.
 So the word is starting to get around  and I had a guy at work come up to me today and say he has an old Benjamin, no longer works... "Chrome" is wearing though... pretty rough. I told him I would love to see it and maybe take it off his hands at a FAIR price.
 Am I about to throw MORE money down a rabbit hole? Refurbishing an old Nickel Benji would be nice.
Time will tell I guess.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  Talk to  Avator he has a whole house full of old AG's his wife andshooting buddy encourages him to hunt up the oldies and bring them back to life

[Brazos]

By all means go get that nickel Benji and bring it back to life.  They do not make them like that anymore.  If not you no it will sit there for many years and get thrown out one day.  Don't get down on modern manufacturing.  To be blunt the to spring rifles in question are junk.  It will cost you more but go get an HW, AA, or RWS spring gun. They are well made and will last generations.  Anything else is produced to make a quick buck.  HW in paticular seems to have used modern manufacturing techniques to improve their rifles, of course it helped them keep their cost down too.  HW obviously wants, and have to, make a profit but quality is very important to them.  If you see rifles made in China, or Turkey for that matter, the first consideration was making the rifle as cheaply as possible to increase profit margin.  If quality was the first consideration they would have made them here, Germany, etc.  before anyone starts in on me I do believe the Chinese and Turkish people can make nice stuff, I just don't think AG manufactuerrs go there to pay the money for their nicest work.  They go there for cheap rifles they can market  and make a profit off the ignorant.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Yep, Bill (Avator) is a good guy, I have PMed him on other things and he's been very helpful.
 Let's see if I can get this one home. Not sure what model it is yet. What he described sounds like it may be a 342.... but we'll just have to see.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Well It followed me home.
 It is, or should I say was a nickel 312, the left side is worn down to the brass along its length.
Gummyed up, what there was of oiled parts resembled grease.
There are no serial numbers I can find. Reads Benjamin Franklin made in U.S.A. On the left that is all. So from my searches here and on Crosman that makes it pre '57? Any help in distinquishing  what vintage or value is greatly appreciated.
If it helps there is no windage or elevation... sights are mounted solid.











So a few pumps and it "poped" air. Gave her a dose of MMO in the air hole, felt pump seal, and the link pivots, and bolt.
Ran about 30 CPHP;s through it at a coffee can at about 25 yards. :Plink" then "PLOINK" then the can began to ROCK as the 8 Pumps started to feel restriction. It does not dump all the air at 8... started not to even at 6. But she improved the amount left over as the shots increased. Now it hits solid but a tad left and a little high.
   Oh God... What have I done? 

[bbv13]

That's real interesting! I started a thread about MMO a month or so ago because I read in the Sheridan repair manual that a mixture of 50% non-detergent motor oil and 50% MMO is suggested for use when resealing them. I've been waiting to find a gun that needs a little TLC to try it.

That gun doesn't look bad to me and it's a old one too. I bet it doesn't have a serial number and was made before 1957. Sometimes all a vintage gun like that needs is a good cleaning?

Bryan

[anuthabubba]

This made me go look at my '58 and ... it is still holding air! Gotta take it out tomorrow.

[Hoosier Daddy]

The MMO sure didn't hurt. I let it set for a day then today tried again, seems to pump stronger now and, although black, the sludge resembles oil.
while it shoots slightly left I can hit a pop can at 20 yards with aiming at it, not compensating off it to the right.
Since I am just babysitting it for now, I am leery to take it apart. I watched this VIDEO LINK and seems pretty straight forward to disassemble, once I got the special tool for the valve.

From my research she is a pre-'57 

• No serial numbers.
• Straight two piece bolt with a screw slot on the knob.
• Target shaped safety instead of bent tang.
• 4 screws hold on the Tootsie-roll pump handle instead of 2 roll pins.
• Rear sight is soldered solid, no elevation adjustment.
• the stock does have some slight contour, not slab sided like a "Red-Rider"

Does that help in narrowing down the vintage?

The owner said he attempted to refinish the wood with some spray varnish as a youngster, didn't hold up well.
The bolt flops around like the tension spring and ball failed or are missing.
No cracks in the wood but at some point a puppy left a few tooth marks on the very rear end of the pump handle.
Wish the nickel was in better shape, maybe I can try something mild like Never-Dull to spruce it up?
Have you guys heard or seen anyone taking one to a metal plater and getting the metal refinished? If I remember right, Nickel is the next to final step in the chrome process.

I want to be fair since I work with the guy, do you think it's worth an offer of $50... $75?

[avator]

Offer $50 and go from there. I wouldn't go much past $75 just because of the TLC it needs. I happen to have the same gun and I love it. Mine wouldn't dump more than 4 pumps when I got it. I pulled it apart, cleaned it up and gave the conical (main) spring a good "coil bind" squeeze in a vise and held for 10 or so seconds. Now it hold just the slightest whisp of air at 8. Not worth opening it back up to get more because for normal plinking I rarely go past 7 and more often only 5 or 6. Secret Sauce is my lube of choice. I've personally seen what it can do time after time. I all fairness, I've never tried anything else. I have and will use Bars Leak transmission treatment on leaky C02 guns. (Tom Gaylord's choice and works flawlessly) The wood responds very well to refinishing. A good sanding, a light walnut staining and 3 - 5 rubs with the WD40 and Tru-Oil process ( to desired sheen) is nice. If needed, MAC1 has the kit and comes with Secret Sauce but you'll need to buy or make a tool. Pyramyd Air has the kit that comes with a tool. Baker has the kit and you can buy a tool from them. 6 of 1, half dozen of the other. Members here (such as myself) have tools and are willing to loan them for the asking. If or when resealing, pay close attention and care to things like... Spring location and direction (washer between springs, conical spring to hammer end of valve with the narrow end pointing towards the hammer, washers/seals in front and behind exhaust valve and notch alignment.) Keep in mind.. the retaining nut is steel, the threaded valve body is brass.. this could very well turn into disaster if misaligned. As far as the silver finish... that's gonna be a tuff one (IMO). Your probably going to leave it be, polish it to brass finish or black it out. All that said, there are also guys around here that are real good at working on vintage pumpers and would do you a good job at a more than fair price. Scott Decker (Longhunter) comes to mind. At the end of the day you will own and enjoy one of my favorite vintage pumpers. I hope I've helped and Good Luck. Keep us informed.

[Hoosier Daddy]

Outstanding Bill!
Thank you.

[Sfttailrdr46]

Outstanding Bill!
Thank you.

Bill is the master of re purpose and resurrection where the old and undesired AG's are concerned

[bbv13]

If you get it for $50 that will be a great deal. You could part it out and get over $100 for it. I know you don't intend to do that but it's worth more than $50 no matter what. I just bought a Benjamin 310 that's in really nice condition for $110 shipped. It has most of the original finish on the metal and stock and I want it as a keeper.

I will buy every complete 310, 317, 312 I find for $100 or less. Working or not in time I will be able to make money because the guns and parts are getting hard to find.

Bryan

[Hoosier Daddy]

Yesterday I sold some unused motocycle parts and got some "play money" so today I talked to the guy at work saying" Stew over it during the long weekend... I'll give ya $60". He says "OK."
"OK what.. you'll think about it?"
He says "No, OK... I'll take it"!
She's mine all mine...muhahah

[avator]

There ya go.
Now take your time when you get inside. A lot of these guns can be brought back with just some juice and a pump piston seal. No need in going into that valve if you don't have to. Those steel to brass threads are unforgiving. Flush it, soak it and stand it in the corner for a couple days while you work the wood (if that is your intention) I had mine out last night and it just seems to get better and better. Looking forward to pictures.

[Hoosier Daddy]

That is exactly the plan for now Bill.
Every now an then it wont pump up and I can hear air out the barrel end. Cocking it before pumping will get back to sealing again. Thinking gummy exhaust valve not seating all the time.
 Hoping it can be flushed out without a full tear down.
Read about using spray carb cleaner.... I got that.
Really excited to get the wood refinished and the metalwork cleaned up. Maybe polished like some here.

[avator]

Not sure if I would use carb cleaner. It may damage seals/O-rings. If I am not mistaken, it is also combustible and I wouldn't want to put it under pressure. There is a thread, or maybe someone will chime in, about flushing. You may want to look for posts by toojung2die.(http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105393.msg999340#msg999340). Altho this is a Sheridan, the concept is the same. Jon has tons of experience and has played a huge role in my learning. Tom Gaylord (PA) recommends revitalizing seals with Bars Leak transmission treatment. I have used it with success in C02 guns. I may have already mentioned that, forgive me I am old and have CRS.

[Sfttailrdr46]

  I think that a minimum of 50% of the GTA members suffer from CRS from time to time

[Hoosier Daddy]

I checked out that thread Bill, good stuff. I will try flushing it with alcohol... then the 312 and I will have something in common.

Sadley I too can relate first hand to the CRS.

Wait... you don't suppose those two statements are related?
Nahhhh.... that's just crazy.

[avator]

LOL.... quite possible...
In the '80s I lived in Anderson In. I sold, repaired and serviced commercial dishwashers and sanitation products in schools, hospitals, nursing homes and restaurants. My territory covered from Terra Haute to Richmond and from Gary to Evansville. I would think that it has something to do with the water in Indiana but that would not explain the geographic diversity of the afflicted here on the GTA. Maybe it's the lead.

[Hoosier Daddy]

 I can now hear air leak out the barrel when pumping I'd say 75% of the time. Cocking the hammer drops it down to say 50%. If it starts to seal, this old Gal holds air when left cocked for several days. I can now visibly see the sludge working out the TP into the breech covering the prob on the bolt. So I know the MMO has worked it's way through her innards. Looking down in the small slot where the safety tang engages the hammer I see dirt so she will get a good cleaning.
 I PMed Jon (TooJung2Die) on a couple questions on the alcohol flush while she is still assembled. I found a syringe "ear cleaner" I had with a soft rubber tip and a bottle of rubbing alcohol. Going to flush her out today until it comes clear. Then using the first 9- 1/2 minutes of this VIDEO as a guide, disassemble as far as I can without the special valve tools and clean it really well. Re-oil lightly with pellgun oil and reassemble to test the outcome.
 Lets see what happens.