Budget, quiet, super accurate basement and back yard pcp rifle recommendations.

[mista meener]

Ribbonstone,

Thank you for the confirmations.  Just to be clear.  I'm not having a problem lining up the black area of the target inside the front sight.  I'm good with that.  The issue I'm having is aligning the outer most circle of the front sight with having equal space around the rear sight hole.  I'm not sure if its called peep or aperture or diopter.  I need to look all these terms up. 

I've attached a picture to explain.  The ring I've marked with a red "1" is the one I'm having trouble with.  The edge marked with a red "2" instead of being nice and crisp as in the picture it is blurry and oval.  It is the only part that is blurry to me.

Taso

    If you watch a shooting coach walk up the line he is always saying front site only. forget the rear site. it is to zero the rifle then only to see the front site. as long as you see the front site and the margin of white is the same around the bull fire the rifle. load and keep firing thinking only about the front site. try it and let us know

[Ribbonstone]

He's right...considering how small the rear peep hole actually is, your eye will self-center though the middle of it without any conscious effort.  All you gotta do is think "front sight..front sight...front sight" and center the "blurr" of the bullseye in the front sight's circle.

[Taso1000]

Ok then.  I won't worry so much about the rear sight.  Oddly the bullseye edges are crisp and sharp.  I also got some 67 lb paper to print targets with.  Hopefully it will be thick enough to make nice clean holes without the tearing with the thin copy paper.

Taso

[mista meener]

Ok then.  I won't worry so much about the rear sight.  Oddly the bullseye edges are crisp and sharp.  I also got some 67 lb paper to print targets with.  Hopefully it will be thick enough to make nice clean holes without the tearing with the thin copy paper.

Taso

try taping the target flat to some sturdy carboard you will get clean holes. you see the front sight perfect on the bull that is all that matters. let us know how it works for you

[Taso1000]

The ldc from TKO arrived Thursday night and I was able to get some pellet testing shots this evening.  I mounted a BSA Tactical 6-24X44 scope with high rings and set it to 24 power and shot off my bench.  Velocities are right around 541 fps with the Crosman Super Match pellets with the muzzle about ten feet from the chronograph.

The T200 shoots the H&N Sport wadcutters and the Crosman Super Match wadcutters the best.  I think the Super Match pellets have a slight accuracy edge.

So far I'm real happy with the rifle.  The bolt is a little stiff at the end of the forward closing stoke and rotating down.  It seems it needs more effort to go forward enough to allow the bolt handle to be rotated down.  The trigger blade feels weird.  I think because it's too narrow.  The trigger movement feels gritty and spongey.  I will need to read up on how to adjust it.  Hopefully I won't need to take the trigger apart but if I do I have stones for smoothing and moly or ultimox to lubricate.

I have attached pictures of the targets I shot.  Beeman wadcutters, RWS Hobby and Diabolo Basic, H&N Sport and Crosman Super Match.

Thanks,

Taso

[Tater]

Looking good Taso.

[Ribbonstone]

Manual should have a description. There have been some slight changes over the years...and it's been in production for about 15 years now, which is a lot longer than nearly any other PCP I can think of.

These would help:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1261489459/S200+Trigger+Adjustment+Tutorial+by+Dan+Nelson
http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/spdxs40.htm

It's the first stage (the "take up") that seems to cause most of the roughness in thse rifles. It does get a little smoother over time, but for that to happen you'd have to put up with it.  Likely could be detail stripped and smoothed. Just adjusting away the 1st stage (so it works as a single stage trigger) works.

WARNING...at least for outside use.  There is no safety.  Too light a trigger and no safety isn't a great combination out in the woods.  So GO SLOW and bounce-test often.

Bolt's stiffness is mostly newness. If it's the o-ring on the bolt, perhaps a touch of silicon grease would help limber it up.
 There is a spring loaded detent ball that supplys tension at lock down, and it could be too tight or just not worn a good smooth seat in the detent on the bolt.  As you look down on the action from the top, the rearmost screw head (kind of wide) holds that spring and little steel ball...back it off 1/8 turn and see (but too little springtension and the bolt is going to want to jump up at the shot).


EDIT:

Trigger clamps to a rail so you can move it forward/back.  It's plastic. Reported you can break it by over tightening the clamping screw. There are aftermarket metal replacements, but if you know ahead of time not to over clamp it, the plastic one wroks. 

Bolt handle is also plastic, and also has aftermarket replacements. 

Thought about that with my first one. Decided that I'd replace the trigger/bolt handle just as soon as it broke.  That rifle was made in 2003, so evidently 13 years of use hasn't been enough to break the plastic parts, so I've never replaced them.

[mista meener]

The ldc from TKO arrived Thursday night and I was able to get some pellet testing shots this evening.  I mounted a BSA Tactical 6-24X44 scope with high rings and set it to 24 power and shot off my bench.  Velocities are right around 541 fps with the Crosman Super Match pellets with the muzzle about ten feet from the chronograph.

The T200 shoots the H&N Sport wadcutters and the Crosman Super Match wadcutters the best.  I think the Super Match pellets have a slight accuracy edge.

So far I'm real happy with the rifle.  The bolt is a little stiff at the end of the forward closing stoke and rotating down.  It seems it needs more effort to go forward enough to allow the bolt handle to be rotated down.  The trigger blade feels weird.  I think because it's too narrow.  The trigger movement feels gritty and spongey.  I will need to read up on how to adjust it.  Hopefully I won't need to take the trigger apart but if I do I have stones for smoothing and moly or ultimox to lubricate.

I have attached pictures of the targets I shot.  Beeman wadcutters, RWS Hobby and Diabolo Basic, H&N Sport and Crosman Super Match.

Thanks,

Taso

  did you shoot at ten yds at 24X power? or was it longer? you can easily adjust the velocity higher and shoot it 35 yd. did you try it with the aperature sites it came with. the velocity you shooting at you really don't need the LDC

[Ribbonstone]

'Need"..I agree.  But if you think high power PCP's with a shroud/LDC are quiet, really need to try one of these match speed PCPs with a well designed LDC.  Comes as close to that fake-silencer sound used on TV as possible.  Liked it so much, figured out a way to add one to a Challenger PCP and still keep the match sights.

Have had my AA 200T up and down in speed, settling on a setting that just needs to transfer port restriction adjusted.  Cranked down, it's a 100 shot 5 foot pound rifle for very quiet work...turn out that screw 3 1/4 turns, and it's a 12 foot pound field rifle.

[Taso1000]

mista meener,

Sorry, I did forget to clarify.  I shot at 10 meters in my basement.  I am leaning on not mounting the aperture sights unless I can figure out how to shoot the ones on my FWB 601.  If I can't I will put the T200 sights up for sale as new, never mounted.

I do plan on either mounting a 1 or 2 power scope/sight or maybe the Millet red dot I bought recently.  I hate being dependent on batteries though.

I only use the high power and bench to test rifle and pellet accuracy.  Once I figure out which pellet works best I will introduce the Taso factor lol.  I will then work on reproducing the bench results with lots of practice.

This gun will stay at the power it is at currently.  I may get another one to set at higher power or pick up a BSA R10 if they break the $700 mark again.  Or one of my B51 builds may suffice.  Or something irresistible pops up in the classifieds.   

While the rifle is not loud, it does have a loud pop.  My 853 and 601 do this too.  I need to be super quiet due to my non shooting friendly neighbors.

Taso

[Ribbonstone]

  Does take some time to get use to "match" sights, but so long as you are shooting  high-contrast, round bullseyes, that "almost" fill the front sight ring, can do a pretty good job of matchng a scope to about 20 yards.

MAtch sights absolutly sux in dim light, sux as sorting out the "fur" from the "tree bark", and sux at "kentucky windage" (or elevation)...but on well lighted round high contrast targets, can keep up with scopes at least out to 20 yards.

Trick is the light.  My practice target stop faces WEST....so every afternoon it gets the full foece of the sun...almost too refective to look at for long, unless looking though the tiny apature of a match-type rear sight...which is likely what makes match sights aqlmost an equal option to a scope at short (20yard) ranges.
 Yes...one fill...20 yards...100 shots:

[Taso1000]

Ribbonstone,

Your 20 yard groups are better than my 10 yard groups!  Thank you for the trigger information too.  Actually you've always been a great help and a wealth of information.  Thank you for that too!

I read the trigger setup info but I'll have to get the rifle apart to see what's going on visually.

Taso

[Ribbonstone]

Actually, you can access all the trigger adjustments without talking anything apart...the trigger guard has those odd slots/holes that pretty much let you get to all of them.  Just need to loosen the clamp on trigger so it an be slid back and forth to get a clear path to some of them.

[mista meener]

  Does take some time to get use to "match" sights, but so long as you are shooting  high-contrast, round bullseyes, that "almost" fill the front sight ring, can do a pretty good job of matchng a scope to about 20 yards.

MAtch sights absolutly sux in dim light, sux as sorting out the "fur" from the "tree bark", and sux at "kentucky windage" (or elevation)...but on well lighted round high contrast targets, can keep up with scopes at least out to 20 yards.

Trick is the light.  My practice target stop faces WEST....so every afternoon it gets the full foece of the sun...almost too refective to look at for long, unless looking though the tiny apature of a match-type rear sight...which is likely what makes match sights aqlmost an equal option to a scope at short (20yard) ranges.
 Yes...one fill...20 yards...100 shots:

match sites are made to do one thing like you said center a round bull in the front site. Ribby I have shot tiny groups with an FWB 300 and the 602 to over 30 yds using a 3 1/2 bull stuck on a white paper plate with a 4.0 size front site. did you do that with the T200

[Ribbonstone]

There is a reason for the various size blacks of various the bullseye targets...and why they make front sight inserts of various diameters.  Some combination will give you that little edge of white target paper in that front sight...if the edge is even and the sights adjusted, the pellet will head for the dead center of that bulseye.

[pepegraves]

Hatsan AT 44 QE , very tuanable also in that price range .

X2 accurate and quiet out of the box

[ac12]

Current thought on the front sight insert is to go UP in size, to give MORE space between the bull and the insert.  Seems that for most people, who don't hold as steady as world class shooters, do better with more white visible around the bull.

This is especially true for the standing position.  I was taught to select the front sight insert that will keep the bull completely visible in the aperture most if not all the time.  If the aperture is so small that the bull goes out of the aperture often, it could lead to snatching/jerking.  The term my coach used was "trust your hold" and "steady pull of the trigger."

[ac12]

Taso, the problem with a red dot is the size of the dot compared to the size of the target.
The red dot that I have almost completely covers a standard 10m bull, at 10m.  IOW, it is good for shooting soda cans and such, not small targets.
For standard target shooting, you want a circle to put the bull inside.  I think they make some of the reflex sights with circular sights rather than a dot.

[ac12]

I have issues with match sights.  I am nearsighted with astigmatism.  I've never used match sights till I received my CMP refurb 853 about a year ago.  In the past I've always used post and notch type sights with no issues but I never shot for one hole groups.

While I can align everything inside the front sight when shooting at 10 meter bulls at 10 meters, I cannot center the outside of the front sight within the rear peep.  I cannot see clearly all the way around the front sight.  I see basically the profile of a football and it's positioned diagonally when I look through the rear peep.

I don't know if it's my astigmatism or the progressive lenses in my glasses.  So either there is something wrong with my prescription or I'm doing something wrong. 

Right now it's easier to align everything with a scope and thus more enjoyable.  I am not giving up on the open sights so I'll have to find a remedy for my issue.

Thank you All for your help.   

Taso

The progressive lens might be giving you problems.
I shoot with bifocal, and use my progressives off the range.
The problem that I have with progressives is that the prescription changes so much as you look out of different parts of the lens.  So unless you setup to look through the SAME spot on the lens each time, your viewing image will be different.

Experiment with moving the rear sight further away or nearer to your eye.
You will find that at one particular distance, it will be easier to center the tube of the front sight in the rear iris.  This is experimental, because the rear sight to eye distance that I use is likely different than what would work for you.   And this is not cast in cement, as it may be different on another day.  Gradually, you will narrow in on the rear sight to eye distance that works for YOU.

And as was mentioned, FOCUS on the front sight.  Everything else will be blurry to some degree.

[Extreme]

If it's just target shooting I would recommend the Mrod in .177. You can always tune it to a lower fill pressure and usually are accurate with the right pellets. There heavier but are very quiet.

Very good suggestion
Best of luck Brother Man