Budget, quiet, super accurate basement and back yard pcp rifle recommendations.

[Hobbyman2007]

I would go for an AR2079 in 177 cal , simply run a 13ci paintball tank at 850 psi . Call it a day . Excellent trigger , barrels are superb for the price  and pretty good sights . A multi shot breech is available from A#€^er air guns that uses marauder magazines . With that setup ,should be good for a few hundred shots per fill at 5 to 6 fpe . That would leave you with enough money for a few thousand pellets.

[nervoustrigger]

Well, I was holding back on recommending a QB since you mentioned you didn't want to tinker.  But it is true that you can get both accuracy and massive shot count for indoor duty at 6fpe with a minimal amount of tinkering.  None of the porting and valve modification is necessary for that power level.  So you might be able to get by with nothing more than backing off the hammer strike to improve efficiency (cut the spring or do a RVA).  I would also polish the leade and check the crown but it may not need it.
 
That said, if you don't need the shot count and want something lightweight, a 1720T would serve you nicely.  Good trigger and good barrel, and unless you have super high standards for 10m shooting, you won't miss the tight ES of a regulated rifle but I imagine you will still want to fiddle with flattening the shot string and that can chew up a lot of time sending pellets over the chronograph.  Especially at 6pfe.  That's a lot of pellets   With a regulator, it's soooooooo easy to dial it in.

[tworst]

Aren't .22 usually a little more efficient with air on most rifles?  Given the same power setting, you can get more shots out of the same gun with .22 than .177, albeit at a lower fps.

Ex.  BSA Multishot Se,  45 max shots per fill in .177 cal. and 55 max shots per fill in .22 & .25

[Ribbonstone]

Still a fan of the AA 200T.  Still $525 with sights (and you’ll likely use a scope, so the sights could be sold to earn back some of the cost).  May be a little short stocked (not as much as the old two-piece stock was, so keep some of the posts separate as they might be talking about the older version…internet info never dies, even when it’s out of date).

For at least some folks, all it takes to go (in .177) from 5.5 foot pounds to 12 foot pounds is a few turns on the transfer port screw…which is accessible on the right side of the receiver.  Almost as simple as flipping a switch (so long as you have a 1.5mm allen key at hand).

Older two-piece stock at the top/ new one-piece stock at the bottom.  It’s not a whole lot, but the new stocks are a bit longer than the old ones (and they changed the geometry of the pistol grip as well...better now for fat hands).



So you can see by the above that I evidently have two of them.  Yep...a .22 that's cranked up a little to about 16 foot pounds and a .177 (the new stock version) that alternates between 12 foot pounds (during squirrel season) and 5.5 foot pounds (the rest of the year).  You'd have to test and write down the number of transfer port turns....but it works out to 125-130 useful 5.5 foot pound shots (the ones shown below) or +50 12 foot pound shots.

If you do find it too short, it’s a whole lot easier to lengthen a butt pad than it is to shorten one.

Posted on another (more “jaundiced”) web site, but in the mode of what you’re thinking about so far as a mild PCP.


Find myself going more and more to low powered PCP’s for practice sessions.  Low end of the power scale doesn’t get a lot of posts, esp. concerning PCP’s.

Right about here, something like 8.5 out of 10 readers quit reading…could hear the door slam on a closed mind.

As I herded together more and more airguns, started returning some of the existing ones to what they do best.  Not that you can’t speed them up, I have in times past cranked both of those rifles up in power.  But now there are other PCP’s in the safe that do the “fast thing” so much better (and these do the “low speed thing” so much better than the fast ones).

Those who own a lot of PCP’s (and from the posts/pictures here, are some of ya’ll out there that try to own them all), is likely there is some PCP you bought way-back-when you started out, cranked it up, and got hooked on the PCP breed.  Maybe a Discovery, Talon,  M-Rod, or a CZ/AA 200…something that was made into a fast rife that can be re-tasked as an accurate, quiet, long shot count, low power practice PCP.

Anyway, not likely to convert anyone…likely preaching to a (small) choir.


These two get the most use, both indoors and outdoors. Shooting targets or plinking at 20-25 yards doesn’t take power.  Trajectory over that short range isn’t an issue, power isn’t needed (or really wanted in suburbia),  can be extremely quiet shooting, and the shot count makes for lots of time shooting/little time filling.

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So for a total of 96 hand pump strokes, I filled both of them up from where they were stored (not stored empty, but also not stored full, normally store then nearer the bottom of the sweet spot than the top).

For those 96 pump strokes in, got 235 shots out. Admit, there were 5.2-5.5 foot pound shots, but what more did I really need for today?

Shot 25-30 shots from each on a standard target….pretty much a tie in grouping average at 20 yards.

Then I plinked, but for this post, plinked paper.

Basically drew M&M sized targets (anything from 9mm-10mm circles…was hungry…ate the M&M’s…although half of them were defective W&W’s…and I might have gotten the sugar-high-jittery-hands at some point.)

Just wanted to see, if I held right, how long it would take for groups to migrate to the bottom edge of an M&M sized circle.  Basically, a 1 pellet diameter average drop @ 20yards.

No chronograph, just shooting circles. Wouldn’t care what the velocity was, just if it would stay inside an M&M.

Challenger migrated down to the bottom edge by about shot #110.  AA 200T got there by shot #125. The AA probably could have squeezed out another 5 shots, but I didn’t feel like hunting up the marks-a-lot to draw one. Neither are super-efficient (yet), with FPE/cuin of something in the 1.2-1.25 area, so there is at least a 10% improvement possible.


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Don’t know how many feet-per-second it would take to show a 1/8” drop at 20yards, but can visually show that they’d have killed those M&M’s (if I hadn’t eaten them).

Just saying….PCP’s don’t have to be all about power.  Hard to tell that from most PCP posts.

Not that I’m anti power.  Do have some PCP’s set up for high power, and they do a lot of things well.  Plinking and long sessions of target punching aren’t among them.

[mobilemail]

This is interesting http://www.targettalk.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=52169&sid=cad047d8a2ecf085c9b7a14a3720b62d

[Ribbonstone]

Plus: the adjustable butt version (and adnustable cheek piece) can be made longer for you long-armed guys and I really like the flat bottom fore end of the two-piece stock for sitting on bench-bags.  The one piece stock has a nice rounded fore end for your hand in off hand shooting.

May be more limited to up-powering than than other models, but it's definitely one to look at for low power and accuracy.  There is a basic internal difference (the transfer port inside the breech is smaller in the low powered version) in some of the AA 200T's really made for 7.5J shooting and those marked 16J (which allow for more adjustment).

[Taso1000]

Hi All,

First of all I can't thank you all enough for your comments and suggestions.  I really do appreciate the effort you all took to respond.  Thank you!  As soon as I can read and process all the posts I will respond to each poster.

for now I will give a small update on what little I was able to find out at work today.

So I knew Pyramid Air had the T200 and from my reading Champion's Choice also sells a slightly different rifle.  It has the two piece furniture with adjustable butt plate and comb.  Pyramid Air's version is the non adjustable one piece stock.  They are the same price.  Is one better than the other?  I can't find specifications on the length of pulls.  Does the adjustable stock butt extend for length and height?

I sent an email to Champion's Choice asking if the receiver has the transfer port power restrictor or is it the not adjustable receiver.  It's hard to tell from their picture but it looks like there is an anti tamper screw where the transfer port restrictor shaft may be.  I have attached pictures of both rifles.

Do you know if an individual can purchase the Champion's Choice rifle or do you have to be associated with a club etc.?  Hopefully they respond to my email so I know for sure.

Thanks and I will now read your posts more thoroughly and respond.

Taso

[Taso1000]

The second picture won't display but if you click on the link it will open up.

Taso

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Tasso,
I would love to have a AA T200 someday, but $500+ is not a budget air gun!
To me, if you want accuracy on a budget, that means you gotta tinker, otherwise buy a T200 and bypass the budget .

Plus, the T200 has many BAM B50/B51 qualities ......... and you already have 4.  That being said, I'm working on a broken B-26 -> go figure  

[Taso1000]

Mark,

I've got plenty of Rambo air rifles.  :-)  My next B51 project will be a .22.  It's going to be a hot rod.  Performance not pretty.     Hopefully it will shoot great at longer distances.  I can't wait to try Nielsen Specialty Ammo .22 slugs and pellets.  Maybe Piledrivers if they ever become available.  But that rifle is for a future post.   


Justin,

Yeah, the T200 is getting the most right with me.  I want to flush out all the alternatives.   


Kirk,

I can't get comfortable with hpa bottles hanging off the front, back etc.  I visualize them snapping off and blowing up.  I know, I know.  It's a very small chance but that's where my mind dwells.  The bigger reason is I want a turn key gun.  I will explain my reasons at the end of my post.


Moorepower,

I do like the 1720T.  I initially thought that the barrel may be too short at 12 inches.  So I did a little research and the 12 inch barrel does not hurt performance in this configuration.  Two things that I would like to have, a more conservative shaped stock.  So I am looking for one.  The second is that it would be nice if it had the Marauder trigger. 

The biggest downside is that the pistol alone is pretty expensive I found out.     The 1399 stock is $25 but it's meh.  The tactical model is $100 more than the plain pistol.  I'm not into the tacti-cool look.  On the plus it already has an ldc.  I don't know how quiet it is but I need as silent as possible.


Dennis,

Your response is similar to Kirk's so my response to him also applies to you.  I still thank you.   


Jason,

Thank you for the response.  For this gun I want turn key.  If you see my response above, I really like the 1720T.  The accessories may put me over my pricepoint.  When you mentioned the regulator, was that on the 1720 or the QB?  At the end I'm going to ask about shot counts.  Ribbonstone touched on it I see.


Tworst,

I recently read a post where the .22 was supposed to be more efficient than .177.  I didn't quite grasp why.  I guess I have to find and read it again.  I can see the bigger passages for .22 should be less restrictive but shouldn't the bigger passage waste air to fill before the pellet gets pushed?  I can't wrap my brain around it.   I do remember that power and barrel length are co related;)


Ribbonstone,

I think you understand me!  Before I got back into air rifles seriously I shot power burners.  I have 11 firearms.  I shot my 22's the most and I had 4 of them.  What am I getting at?  I would boast about my 22's and tell everyone they needed one.  They were my favorite guns and I really enjoyed them.  They looked at me like I was crazy.

Sure, my ar-15, 44 mag super Blackhawk and 9mm Usp are great to shoot once in a while.  They have their specific purpose but hardly ever get shot.  When I just want to make holes in paper and hone my skills the 22lr always does me just fine.

So since getting to a range has become more difficult I found the 22lr replacement in low power .177 pellets.  I'm a super big low powered .177 proponent.  I can shoot them in my basement or back yard any time I want.  That is huge.

So back to your post.  It looks like there are many versions of this rifle.  My understanding is that they are all made by CZ and there are different versions.  Then Daisy and Air Arms get them rebranded and there are different versions.  And in all this, versions were replaced over time.  So like you said we need to be clear about which version we're discussing.   

So I posted the pictures of the Air Arms T200 on Pyramid Air and the Champion's Choice T200 as I "think" those are the only ones currently available to purchase new right now.

Very good accuracy I see, or is it the shooter?     So the shot count is around 120.  I had read that some stated 60 shots.  Also I think there are two or three different air cylinders.  One being longer and the 2 shorter, one with gauge on the end and the other with fill port on the end?

I doubt I would ever use the higher power mode.  Does the power selector have detents?  I was curious if it would move by itself and make the velocity inconsistent if it moves freely?


To All,

So to clarify my rifle goal.  Please don't take this the wrong way.  I love to tweak and tune and experiment.  It's in my blood.  I have been very tempted during the course of your responses to build, tweak, modify and frankenstein.     I don't blame you all one bit for the suggestions.  But that is not the goal for "this" rifle.  The next one, most likely.   

1st and biggest reason is I want a "turn key" rifle to meet my specific niche.  2nd I want to see what a purpose specific, mass produced rifle is like.  As a paradigm of sorts.  I know perfection is subjective and more than my $500 ish price point.  Mounting a scope and an ldc is all I want to do.  I want to unbox it, fill it up and shoot it then put it away.

Also, I have so many unfinished projects that they make me a little nuts that I'm not 100% done with them.  I currently have 4 modded rifles and they all have their idiosyncrasies, I think.  They were all diamonds in the rough.  I want to compare and contrast my handy work and vision.  Are my tuning efforts lacking, equal or better than what is mass produced?  This is all for fun and to learn.

Thank you for reading and sticking with me.  I hope I got my thoughts and intent across because sometimes I'm not sure how to explain what I'm thinking precisely. 

Thank you All,

Taso

[Taso1000]

Ribbonstone,

Good idea for the sights.  I could recoup some of the rifle cost. 

Does anyone have a good 10 meter scope recommendation?

Thank you!

Taso

[Taso1000]

Kirk,

I realized today that the T200 forearm has the same down cut by the air tube that goes forward to the tip. Interesting.

Taso

[rkr]

BSA Scorpion, 599$ will get you a very good and very accurate rifle. There's a reason why BSA barrel blanks are in short supply. CZ200 would be my second choice.

[mobilemail]

May I complicate the matter even further? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1725715513/gamo-coyote-whisper-maxxim-pcp-air-rifle-pellet-beechwood-stock-blue-barrel   

This is fun, I get to show all the guns I would probably buy if i weren't married otherwise obligated.

[rkr]

May I complicate the matter even further? http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1725715513/gamo-coyote-whisper-maxxim-pcp-air-rifle-pellet-beechwood-stock-blue-barrel   

This is fun, I get to show all the guns I would probably buy if i weren't married otherwise obligated.

It has BSA barrel but the downside is the Gamo trigger unit, CZ200 and Scorpion have already rather decent triggers.

[SpiralGroove]

Hey Taso,
Just remember "Turn key" doesn't equal Budget

[Taso1000]

Kirk,

Yes, you are right.     I meant to say my budget is compared to the $4000 match rifles.  I thought the T200 would be the best option in the $500 ish price range.  But since I have never seen one, let alone shoot one I was hoping to draw on the experience of others. 

I also wanted one rifle that didn't need work, super quiet, accurate and long shot count.  Believe me, I know it's a tall order and I was stuck.  That is why I asked for All of the GTA member's help.  And I appreciate all I have received!   

Thank you,

Taso

[SpiralGroove]

Taso,
I've been meaning to ask you: "Can I get a loan from you?"
My BSA's have permanently crimped my budget

[Taso1000]

Kirk,

Sure!  Let me dig up my Dewey, Screwem & Howe loan application for you to fill out.   

Taso

[mobilemail]

I would like a BSA to crimp my budget.