Author Topic: Thoughts on using moly instead of tar on spring in Vortek Kit (Read 4729 times))

Gear_Junkie · « **on:** April 05, 2016, 05:59:38 PM »

I'm going to swap my PG2 spring for the 12 ft-lb spring in my RWS 34. I've read bad things about using Vortek's grease, so I used ARH tar on the spring when installed the PG2 kit. Now that I'm going to pull the kit apart, what are the going thoughts on using moly instead of tar on the spring?

Thanks.

Methuselah · « **Reply #1 on:** April 05, 2016, 06:29:47 PM »

By all accounts the carrier in moly is combustible. I'd expect the spring will be slinging excess for a long time and that will result in either dieseling or detonation. Tar stays put better than moly and it's made specifically for spring dampening...

stija · « **Reply #2 on:** April 05, 2016, 06:57:05 PM »

I am interested in how your swap goes. I wish i had installed a 12lb kit in my HW95 to begin with, but at this point i am not going to switch it unless some failure requires repair or someone persuades me that it really makes a difference.

Do you have access to a chronograph to record numbers before and after?

Gear_Junkie · « **Reply #3 on:** April 05, 2016, 07:29:24 PM »

Those are good points, Steve. However, if I use a very light coat, I would think that if any moly is slung onto the chamber wall it would get wiped away by the seal and stay out of the compression side of the chamber. I don't know, though???

Also, I can definitely post results between the PG2 kit and the 12ftlb kit. Of course, I should use tar on the spring if I want to have as close a comparison as possible... what to do??? $:-\$

Thanks!

stija · « **Reply #4 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:09:43 PM »

I would put a light coat of tar on any spring coils which are exposed. But light means light.

I am looking forward to your review and comparison. I currently have a HW95 .177 shooting 15.3+fpe. Knowing what i now know i would have preferred to go the 12lb kit route. Are you buying just a 12lb spring or someone's 12lb kit?

Gear_Junkie · « **Reply #5 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:14:01 PM »

Quote from: stija on April 05, 2016, 08:09:43 PM

I would put a light coat on any spring coils which are exposed. But light means light.

I am looking forward to your review and comparison. I currently have a HW95 .177 shooting 15.3+fpe. Knowing what i now know i would have preferred to go the 12lb kit route. Are you buying just a 12lb spring or someone's 12lb kit?

I already have the PG2 kit, so I just bought the 12ftlb spring directly from Vortek. I'm a little worried about getting the top hat off the PG2 spring without destroying it. Pulling the rear guide off isn't that big of a deal, but the top hat seems like it is on VERY tight.

stija · « **Reply #6 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:21:54 PM »

I am not familiar with RWS or its equivalent PG2 kit setup? Mine had a rear plastic outter sleave and inner guide and front metal guide which readily came off. But that was on a HW95. Do you have pictures of the kit and what you're talking about?

Mateo74 · « **Reply #7 on:** April 05, 2016, 08:22:40 PM »

I would not use Tar on a Vortek kit. One of the reasons the outer guide was developed was so you do not need to rely on thick lubes to dampen the spring, There are other benefits to like less sensitivity to temperature. IMHO a light coating on the spring to prevent corrosion is all that is needed, Less is more..

nced · « **Reply #8 on:** April 05, 2016, 09:09:28 PM »

Quote from: Gear_Junkie on April 05, 2016, 05:59:38 PM

I'm going to swap my PG2 spring for the 12 ft-lb spring in my RWS 34. I've read bad things about using Vortek's grease, so I used ARH tar on the spring when installed the PG2 kit. Now that I'm going to pull the kit apart, what are the going thoughts on using moly instead of tar on the spring?

Thanks.

Years ago one of the changes made to minimize temperature induced poi shifting was to replace the "tar" on the spring with a thin film of the same molly paste used to lube the piston at that time. Changing to a thin coat of the molly paste did help when there was a 30 degree temperature shift during a shooting session like we often had for early spring and late fall shooting. As far as I know my brother still uses only molly paste for his internal lubing and has been doing so for a couple decades now. I stumbled upon this decades ago at an early spring field target match when the sight-in was done during snow flurries but the temp rose to the mid 50s during the match. Both my brother and I were shooting that match and about 3/4 through we both started missing more targets than usual. Shooting at some leaves between lanes we found that we both had a 1" poi shift at only 20 yards!

The issue with "tar" is that it's made rather viscous so it will cling to the spring coils through the shot cycle since a lot of folks use "slathered on tar" to dampen spring twang and enough "tar" to dampen twang is also enough so that the changes in viscosity due to temperature shifting also affects the speed of the piston. I've moved completely away from "dieseling petro based lubes" completely and use only Krytox lubes for my R9 & HW95 as the viscosity of these "space station lubes" are less affected by shifting temps.

Anywhoo.....IMHO...the only purpose for lubing a spring is to break metal to metal contact with the ID of the piston during the shot cycle and it takes very little lube to accomplish this, especially molly paste. LOL....even if excess molly paste were on the spring coils and some got slung onto the receiver ID it would be no different than the molly paste that's applied to the piston and piston seal for those who prefer the "old school approach" to springer lubing. Even when I used "tar" to lube my springs this is what an application looked like.......

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
No globs of tar and no (well, almost no) "strings between the coils"! basically, the coils were just barely "painted black"

Sfttailrdr46 · « **Reply #9 on:** April 05, 2016, 09:22:52 PM »

I used very light coat of Ultimox #226 in both my Vorteked rifles and it is a superior lube for that application

EMrider · « **Reply #10 on:** April 05, 2016, 09:26:12 PM »

I have used a thin coat of moly on the springs from many Vortek and JM tune kits.

Never get any dieseling.

R

wimpanzee · « **Reply #11 on:** April 05, 2016, 09:56:13 PM »

i've only ever used moly on my vortek kits. I paint a light coat of it onto the spring, piston, etc, and no problems after several thousand shots.

I use DuPont M77, it is silicone based.

Jason_Garvin · « **Reply #12 on:** April 05, 2016, 10:21:04 PM »

Hi there,

I have only used the vortek grease which I think is some sort of Teflon synthetic. It was nice an tacky like euro tar. I haven't had any issues with it yet, and not sure what issues people are seeing. I would think the heavy tar on the spring would end up inside the outer sleeve and that would bog things down. I have kept the vortek lubes in his kits and ARH lubes in his.

The last 12 ft lb vortek I installed in a Hw 95 I used vortek lube on spring, guides, piston seal, and moly on the skirt. It is sweet buttery smooth, easy cocking, be tough to improve it really,

Take care
💀
Jason G

Grover · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2016, 10:32:56 PM »

Like Jason, I've been using the vortek Grease on my springs and guides without a second thought. I'm very happy with the results. I've experienced no problems.

Schnitzel · « **Reply #14 on:** April 05, 2016, 11:01:38 PM »

I have my first Vortek kit on its way, It's for my Diana 34. I ordered the moly lube from Vortek to go with it. Wondering why I've read so many people say not to use the Vortek grease that's included in the kit. Tom from Vortek told me to use both, and They can be used together.

I wish there was a definitive answer...Tar? Moly? Krytox, etc etc

Grover · « **Reply #15 on:** April 05, 2016, 11:07:35 PM »

I use the moly on the piston and side of seal -- a very light coat, just enough so you can see it. Use the supplied Grease on spring and guide.

You want nothing on face of seal. Clean receiver tube thoroughly with goo gone before installing.

Not surprisingly there are many varying opinions on this subject.

Back_Roads · « **Reply #16 on:** April 05, 2016, 11:15:51 PM »

Any one try coating a spring in truck bed liner ? ... ok i have a hatsan 125 .25 in need of a tear down , ill get back to you

Brazos · « **Reply #17 on:** April 06, 2016, 12:10:34 AM »

The Vortek supplied grease is fine. I used it in the first RWS34 I installed a Vortek kit in (with no other lubes) two years ago and it is working great still today. I have also used the Vortek grease one a number of other rifles with moly behind the piston seal. All work great. I would not use traditional tar with the Vortek Kit. I have never heard anything bad about the Vortek lube and I check this website and a couple of others everyday. Seems like I would have heard about it. I would use the Vortek lube with moly or use Krytox.

stija · « **Reply #18 on:** April 06, 2016, 12:10:49 AM »

Quote from: Back_Roads on April 05, 2016, 11:15:51 PM

Any one try coating a spring in truck bed liner ? ... ok i have a hatsan 125 .25 in need of a tear down , ill get back to you

Why?

And tar is used only to de-twang spring to piston contact/sound. People sleave the inside walls of pistons and light tarring beforehand will keep it together and deaden what otherwise would be metal to metal contact.

Having said that i only used Vortek supllied grease myself, and very little of it. And i did not have any tar on hand so i did not have to think to much.

jus Tom · « **Reply #19 on:** April 06, 2016, 09:19:51 AM »

Truck Bed Liner

?? What could possibly go wrong

:-0

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Thoughts on using moly instead of tar on spring in Vortek Kit

Author Topic: Thoughts on using moly instead of tar on spring in Vortek Kit (Read 4729 times))