Lubrication - make sure I have this right, please...

[kudzu]

Having searched and read a bazillion posts on lubrication, some of them contradictory, these are my conclusions. On CO2 and pumpers, it is okay to use a petroleum-based oil everywhere. On springers, only silicone-based, or other non-petroleum, oil should be used in or around the compression chamber. I know everybody has an opinion on which particular lubricants are best, but is my basic understanding correct?

[Motorhead]

Having searched and read a bazillion posts on lubrication, some of them contradictory, these are my conclusions. On CO2 and pumpers, it is okay to use a petroleum-based oil everywhere. On springers, only silicone-based, or other non-petroleum, oil should be used in or around the compression chamber. I know everybody has an opinion on which particular lubricants are best, but is my basic understanding correct?

Those Pneumatic actions that AIR COMPRESSION is created within gun ... PUMPERS & SPRING PISTON
you create HEAT and therefor subject to Combustion / Dieseling from igniting trace petroleum lubricants.

Pump guns ( Older especially ) also use Leather pump cups and the lube introduced does double duty as a preserver of the leather while keeping it soft & supple. Non detergent / neetsfoot blends excel here.
Silicone lubes are common as well ... tho sadly silicone is a LOUSY lubricant on metal to metal surfaces.

Sadly there are FEW do it all / use universally type lubricants in the Air gun world ... * used correctly that is 

[Roadworthy]

Lubricants should be selected based on intended use.  Most people have several - different ones used on different locations within the airgun.

[MontanaFTW]

I'm wondering the same. Trying to lube my tj .257 but dunno what type of lube to use(Rem Oil maybe? Cause I got plenty on hand)Same with hand pump.  One person says one thing then I read a completely different forum where everybody is saying something completely different

[Motorhead]

I'm wondering the same. Trying to lube my tj .257 but dunno what type of lube to use(Rem Oil maybe? Cause I got plenty on hand)Same with hand pump.  One person says one thing then I read a completely different forum where everybody is saying something completely different

Misinformation is unfortunate and sadly because the MYNA birds of the web keep repeating it does not make it so.

Read this: http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/library/All_about_lubricants.doc

[nced]

Having searched and read a bazillion posts on lubrication, some of them contradictory, these are my conclusions. On CO2 and pumpers, it is okay to use a petroleum-based oil everywhere. On springers, only silicone-based, or other non-petroleum, oil should be used in or around the compression chamber. I know everybody has an opinion on which particular lubricants are best, but is my basic understanding correct?

On springers, only silicone-based, or other non-petroleum, oil
I agree with the "non-petroleum" part of the comment but disagree with the "only silicone based" part.
Silicone is a terrible metal to metal lube that easily leads to galling between sliding steel parts. This can easily be proven by chucking a piece of steel rod in a lathe chuck, then lube the rod and steel bar with "plain ole wheel bearing grease", hold the greased steel bar on the spinning steel rod in the chuck with pressure and notice how long it takes for the metal to start galling.

Now strip the rod and bar of all "dinosaur grease" and do the same thing using 100% silicone divers grease.....almost instant galling will occur!

Personally, a few years ago I got away from using a different mix of "diesel prone petro greases" in my R9 and HW95 by replacing them with non-dieseling Dupont Krytox GPL205. LOL....I found an universal grease that I use for all parts of my HW springers from the piston seal to the spring to the barrel pivot shims and "latching chisels". For lubing the stuff that can't be easily disassembled for the grease I use Dupont Krytox GPL105 oil.

[Doug Wall]

The lubricant must be chosen for the individual part of the gun. As has been mentioned, silicone is a really bad metal-to-metal lubricant. For pumpers, and many other airgun parts, petroleum based lubricants are fine (Crosman Pelgun Oil is 30 weight non-detergent oil). Silicone oil has applications for rubber-to-metal (O rings) contacts, and for leather sealed springers. For most synthetic sealed springers, there should be NO lubricants in the compression chamber. Many of us use high moly content (>60%) grease behind the piston seal, and a bit of heavy grease ("tar") on the spring. For NP type guns, no spring, so just some moly.

[nced]

The lubricant must be chosen for the individual part of the gun. As has been mentioned, silicone is a really bad metal-to-metal lubricant. For pumpers, and many other airgun parts, petroleum based lubricants are fine (Crosman Pelgun Oil is 30 weight non-detergent oil). Silicone oil has applications for rubber-to-metal (O rings) contacts, and for leather sealed springers. For most synthetic sealed springers, there should be NO lubricants in the compression chamber. Many of us use high moly content (>60%) grease behind the piston seal, and a bit of heavy grease ("tar") on the spring. For NP type guns, no spring, so just some moly.

LOL....I've used the "one lube for everything" approach for a couple years now after using "traditional dieseling oil based molly bearing lubes" for decades and found that the non-dieseling "space station lubes" to be better for my use. Still.....mineral oil based molly bearing lubes have been used successfully for decades so whatever works best  for the individual shooter is the best to use!

Hummm....pumpers are a completely different animal than a piston gun so I'm of the notion that the only thing needed for those is some MAC1 Secret Sauce! 

[Methuselah]

Having searched and read a bazillion posts on lubrication, some of them contradictory, these are my conclusions. On CO2 and pumpers, it is okay to use a petroleum-based oil everywhere. On springers, only silicone-based, or other non-petroleum, oil should be used in or around the compression chamber. I know everybody has an opinion on which particular lubricants are best, but is my basic understanding correct?

What gun are you wanting to re-lube?  It matters.

You will find advice that is contradictory, but if you look up the base properties of the lube ingredients you do start to see patterns.

[kudzu]

What gun are you wanting to re-lube?  It matters.

You will find advice that is contradictory, but if you look up the base properties of the lube ingredients you do start to see patterns.

I have pumpers and spring-piston guns that I lube per the manual for each specific gun. The point of this question was to see if I generally have the big picture. As far as I can tell from responses, I think I do; but, I have come to understand there are better non-petroleum lubes for metal-to-metal lubrication than silicone. Do you agree with my conclusions?

[Motorhead]

What gun are you wanting to re-lube?  It matters.

You will find advice that is contradictory, but if you look up the base properties of the lube ingredients you do start to see patterns.

I have pumpers and spring-piston guns that I lube per the manual for each specific gun. The point of this question was to see if I generally have the big picture. As far as I can tell from responses, I think I do; but, I have come to understand there are better non-petroleum lubes for metal-to-metal lubrication than silicone. Do you agree with my conclusions?

Honestly it is not important we agree or not to your conclusions .... You asked and were given experienced responses & links to detailed information.

What you do with it is yours alone .... Just sayin.

[kudzu]

What gun are you wanting to re-lube?  It matters.

You will find advice that is contradictory, but if you look up the base properties of the lube ingredients you do start to see patterns.

I have pumpers and spring-piston guns that I lube per the manual for each specific gun. The point of this question was to see if I generally have the big picture. As far as I can tell from responses, I think I do; but, I have come to understand there are better non-petroleum lubes for metal-to-metal lubrication than silicone. Do you agree with my conclusions?

Honestly it is not important we agree or not to your conclusions .... You asked and were given experienced responses & links to detailed information.

What you do with it is yours alone .... Just sayin.

I simply asked if my understanding is correct.

[Methuselah]

What gun are you wanting to re-lube?  It matters.

You will find advice that is contradictory, but if you look up the base properties of the lube ingredients you do start to see patterns.

I have pumpers and spring-piston guns that I lube per the manual for each specific gun. The point of this question was to see if I generally have the big picture. As far as I can tell from responses, I think I do; but, I have come to understand there are better non-petroleum lubes for metal-to-metal lubrication than silicone. Do you agree with my conclusions?

Actually, I don't know that I'd use silicone on anything in a pumper or springer.  Nor whatever the manuals say for that matter though my experience is limited.

The, ah, "manual" for my Daisy 880 said pellgun oil IRCC, but that didn't work at all.  30w ND oil did.

There are as many opinions on what to put where as there are shooters, which is why I suggested reading up and going from there. Considerations include seal type/material, pressures, even environment.

The GTA Library info is a great start.  Some of the folks responding have done many many tunes too.  Also, mistakes can be corrected, so I think it's worth learning even if you don't get things perfect the first time around.

BTW, I've noticed that most first timers seem to fall into two categories ... Those that ask questions and listen and have researched, those who ask but interject they have justifications for "adjusting" the answers to their ideas.  It seems the latter tend to have more tear down to redo situations.  Can't say though in the end who learns more.  Both mostly get the job done 

We're here - help & advice for the asking.  Good luck 

[kudzu]

Thanks, Steve.

I started out by searching on lubrication and quickly found the GTA Library info. Then I read the bazillion posts referred to in my original question. My hope was to weed out the contradictions and distill the essential info to a few easily remembered points. Maybe it's not that simple.

Based on responses to this thread and further research, my conclusion is that airgun lubrication is not science, it is religion!

[Methuselah]

Thanks, Steve.

I started out by searching on lubrication and quickly found the GTA Library info. Then I read the bazillion posts referred to in my original question. My hope was to weed out the contradictions and distill the essential info to a few easily remembered points. Maybe it's not that simple.

Based on responses to this thread and further research, my conclusion is that airgun lubrication is not science, it is religion!

Scientifically speaking, ingredient properties do give you a leg up though.

We had an older cabinet shop guy separate a wall unit for us - essentially build an additional side panel.  He told me about a job he bid to paint a home interior that had smoke and soot damage from a fire.  His bid was way low.  He did no cleaning ... shellac covered and chemically sealed the walls, then paint.  His background was chemical engineering 

Moly for high pressure sealing, carrier minimally combustible, go very sparingly.  Substitutions?  Same criteria, gotta make sense if it's not obviously tried and true.  A lot of folks, tuners included I'd imagine, use JM's lubes.  Me included...

Hope it turns out well for ya 

[kudzu]

Scientifically speaking, ingredient properties do give you a leg up though.

Of course, my religion comment was tongue-in-cheek. It is like you said above, there are about as many recommendations as there are air gun shooters. There is just something about lubricants that brings out the mystical and zealotry in people - go to a motorcycle forum and ask about, or comment on, the best oil for a motorcycle!

[GETTEM]

I'm new to AGs but after reading this Gate my head is spinning....

BE SAFE!

CHEERS

[anuthabubba]

Any lube, used improperly, can be problematic.

[temchik]

Welcome to the hobby!

Airgun lubrication is one of the most discussed and argued about topics. Eventually you find a lot of stuff said just isn't true, but some basics still hold

- CO2 and pump guns - WT30 (SAE30) *non-detergent* motor oil (or pelgun oil) once in a while on the seals/CO2 bottles or pump heads (and pretty much anywhere else)
- NEVER use petroleum based or "spray" lubricants in spring powered guns chamber or in high powered HPA guns
- Moly is good, moly is great, but so is white lithium silicone grease or pure PTFE (Krytox, expensive!!), never had dieseling with that in my springers
- Springs and spring guides usually require something thicker to reduce the twang, just watch for cross-contamination between the piston lube and spring lube

I also apply some Ballistol to all metal parts and wipe them down dry after degreasing for an added rust prevention (that stuff is great)