Ugh, my PCP dilemma!

[UCChris]

I need help deciding what to do about my PCP situation.

I am looking for a PCP rifle that I would like to meet the following requirements:

1) .22 caliber
2) Regulated to somewhere between 1000-1500 psi. I have a 3000 psi SCUBA tank and I don't want/have the money to purchase a 4500 psi tank. I also don't want to have to go refill my SCUBA tank a bunch since the dive shop is 30 miles away from my house. For this reason, I'd like to have the gun regulated to 1000-1500 psi so I can fill it to 2000-2500 psi and get a lot of fills.
3) I'm not terribly concerned about power. Somewhere between 13-30 fpe is fine.
4) Compact. I don't really want the length of the rifle + LDC to break 40 inches.
5) Price of $350 or so for the rifle

Options I've thought of thus far:

a) Justin (Tweeter) is selling the Jason Neal tuned QB79 that I was the original owner of. It does 30 fpe for 70 regulated shots, though I would probably turn it down to 20-22 fpe and get somewhere around 100 regulated shots. The barrel is a bit long, but I would just chop it so the butt of the LDC sits almost the end of the bottle. The gun is insanely accurate and the trigger is second only to the match grade Feinwerkbau 10m air rifle I shot last year. This will cost me $365. That's within my price range.

b) Pick up a Prod and bottle it. Looking at $300-$350 for a used/on sale Prod, $80 for the JDS Airman tank block, and $90 for the Ninja bottle. This will get me an unknown amount of shots around 13-14 fpe, though I'd probably bump it up to 18-20 fpe if possible. Certainly up to 15-16 fpe minimum. Then there's no guarantee that the accuracy will be anywhere near the QB. In fact, it's probably guaranteed that it won't be as accurate as the QB.

c) Save my money (gasp!) until I can purchase a used "Tier 1" gun. Something like a used Brocock Contour XL. Problem with this is that most airguns don't come regulated from the factory. And shot count is not nearly as good as the QB/bottle modified guns after taking up some of the tube space with an aftermarket regulator.

What do I do? I want the QB, but every time I go to pull the trigger, I wish that it was a sexier gun. It works great; well beyond it's price tag. But I'm getting to the point in life where I want my possessions to turn me on, ya know? The QB to a higher end gun is like a Glock is to a Sig P226 Equinox. The Glock/QB will shoot just as well and for cheaper than the Sig/"Tier 1" airgun, but it don't look half as sexy doing it.

[Prouzy]

Certainly a common recommendation is to save for higher end. Im looking into Prod as well, but far from a classic look, etc. I just bought an Mrod too, because I can change the stock.  Im sort of a here and now. So I loke the idea of getting as close as possible, now.  Especially knowing what you know, including high level of satisfaction, purchasing the custom QB.  You can add a very nice stock for minimal money such as the Richard MF that is 99% inlet for QB and customize. This may or may not add to the resale value but certainly wont hurt in compeating against others, meaning that you can then continue to save, while also being able to shoot. Shoot now, upgrade later.  However, I think you have already been thru a version of this, but you may have realized you will require the tier 1 as a next purchase  2 cents

[Motorhead]

1000-1500 psi typically is going limit output in .22 caliber to sub 25 ft lbs power
40" for a rifle with an effective LDC is Short !! ... your really in the Bullpup size here.
Regulated too ... at that price point you talking a HPA regulated bottle type AG .. IMO

Something QB 79 based or a Carbine Crosman P-rod pistol is what I envision filling that set of specs 

JMO ...

[UCChris]

I'm tossing around the idea of using an AR2078 stock and inletting it for the bottle/tank block and the screws that secure to the forend. However, due to the slots in the forend, I doubt that I will be able to secure the stock like the QB79 requires. So that leaves me with the AR2079 stock which is good looking, however I'm looking for the Daystate Air Ranger look. Where the bottle/tank block connection is hidden by the stock. Makes for a much sexier gun IMO.

Motorhead, I think we're on the same brain frequency. I don't think I'll find an off the shelf gun that'll do what I want it to unless I up my budget a thousand bucks or so... I think the best bet at this point is to go with the QB.

[farmerjoe99]

I would go with the QB hands down,
you know it performs and perform very well!
I didn't see that it was for sale but its a good thing
as I would be trying like crazy to scrape up the cash
you are going to be hard pressed to beat the performance of that gun sub $1000
I know what you mean about looks but think of the accuracy you were getting with it
plus I always feel better using them in the field when they don't looks quite so impressive...
always trying not to scrape them up instead of getting the perfect rest.

[Ribbonstone]

Many pictures before of this simple QB79 HPA.


Shorter barrel (about 14 ½”), this runs about 38 and a fraction” with the LDC.

In case you are wondering about the odd length…it’s there because I sometimes take the HPA tank fof and run the same rifle with a 9oz. co2 tank.  Running 850psi air lets co2 run well enough that I don’t need to retune it when I swap gasses.



If you don’t use an on/off between the tank and the tank block, could shorten the barrel to 12” and end up at about 36” with an LDC.
Subtract 4 ½” from either of the above if you can run without an LDC and don’t care how loud it is (34” or 32” without the on/off).

Don’t get the idea it’s a super light weight…even though it’s short, as shown will run about 8 pounds. All metal and wood will do that to you.

Run with an 850psi tank, can get 12.5 foot pounds (depending on pellet weight) and if you play around with the tuning, can manage 200 shots per fill without being freakishly efficencty.

I do recommend better tank block fixation (long post here about that subject) even when working with 1000psi. I just don’t like BOTH the thinness of the tube’s “web” (distance between the tank block hole and the end of the tube) AND the little flats milled into the QB79 tubes for the screws (which make the metal thinner).

http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=105712.0

Read the pages of posts above...try to separate the hay from the "road apples" (it's mostly hay).

If it’s all about the power, then you don’t really care so much about the efficnecy…but if you hand-pump to fill, you might want more shots for your effort.  It’s that “need for speed” that makes for inefficnet HPA conversions (although some here have managed both higher power and decent air use, it’s  a good bit of work.)

If you can handle fixing the tank block more securely and keep to 1100psi or under, shorten the barrel, do a decent recrown, could get a .22 version like this to work at about 16-18 foot pounds for something over 130 shots per 13ci tank fill for about $200.

As for fill, being regulated, the shot count is proportional (which is true for any regulated rifle).

Lets say you have a 1000psi regulator. From a full fill (3000psi) you get 120 good shots over the 2000 psi of air use (from 3K to regulator pressure).  Will get 60 shots if you fill it to 2000psi and run it to 1000psi….or 30 shots if all you can manage is a 1500psi fill.

 BUT, it does have drawbacks:

Still not real comfortable running one at pressures above 1200psi.  Yeah, while lots of people will list lots of reasons why you can, it’s not gonna be me.

It is pig-but ugly.  Rather than trying to pretty it up, would just go with it as the ugly-gun.  Rather than butt ugly, think of it as “industrial” (if it burned coal, would be “steam punk”).

The conversion is only as safe as the work done to convert it….fixing the tank block in place is not a place to half-arse it.

End up with so many potential leak spots, you will spend a good bit of time keeping it running right (are 9 seals at work to keep the air at a stable pressure and contained inside the rifle while it just sits there.)

You will spend a lot of time trying to get it balanced between air use and energy produced.  Not really a problem getting it up in speed, but it is a problem getting it to not drink air like a sailor drinks beer on his first shore leave.  With a 60 mile round trip to fill your scuba tank, I’d likely try for the best air use I could manage.

[UCChris]

Well, my beloved QB is officially headed back to me!

[Hobbyman2007]

A Boyd's stock maybe just what you need to dress it up a bit. And won't cost a fortune . I myself love the Lego guns (Qb's AR's and 22xx/ discos ) if it has a good barrel anything is possible .

[FuzzyGrub]

4) Compact. I don't really want the length of the rifle + LDC to break 40 inches.

I'd think a 16-17" barrel shrouded or with LDC can keep you to 40", as a full size Mrod is 43". 

[jward681]

Glad to hear you and an old friend will be reunited soon. Can't wait to read the tails of you're adventures together again!

[rkr]

4) Compact. I don't really want the length of the rifle + LDC to break 40 inches.

I'd think a 16-17" barrel shrouded or with LDC can keep you to 40", as a full size Mrod is 43". 

Nope, it's more like 12-14" barrel if you want it quiet. An effective LDC will be 8" long on average. With good shroud you can take 2" off that and add it to the barrel length.

[FuzzyGrub]

4) Compact. I don't really want the length of the rifle + LDC to break 40 inches.

I'd think a 16-17" barrel shrouded or with LDC can keep you to 40", as a full size Mrod is 43". 

Nope, it's more like 12-14" barrel if you want it quiet. An effective LDC will be 8" long on average. With good shroud you can take 2" off that and add it to the barrel length.

I'd say go with a larger dia LDC over a long skinny one.  He certainly doesn't need 8" in front of the barrel muzzle at those power levels. 

Here is a 12" barrel with just a mrod shroud grafted on, and is less than 35" OAL and is very quiet. 



I also have a Mrod carbine at 39" with a 17" barrel in 22.   It is a little noisier than a full length, but could go with a 1" shorter barrel and add an inch to the shroud.  You would get two more Mrod baffles.
 

[Ribbonstone]

Wish there were some factory-ready regulated  rifle in a reasonable price range for you...but there isn't.  So while I have some reservations about QB79's as conversions (mostly about that tank block fixation), if you really can live with moderate power and do the tank block attachement work carefully, it would scratch the itch for the least money.

On the other hand, would delay that day by $200 (if you keep the QB simple).