FWB 300S

[stija]

I have a chance to buy two FWB 300S's or chose one of the two, and get one.  Person selling it is local to me so i am going to go see them tomorrow.  He happens to be selling three of them but one is spoken for, so i'll have two to choose from. One is modified with a JM spring and other is stock (two springs), and both have been resealed by owner.  The former shoots 650+ and latter 590+.  Both come with original sights. 

So please educate me a little by telling me what to look for on these rifles specifically when buying it? For example, should i be listening to the sound it makes when cocking, or does the stock crack in one specific area that i should look at? A little help from someone experienced with these rifles will be appreciated.  I know there are many versions of 300S, but how do i recognize them and is one more valuable than the other?

I am going to see them tomorrow since it will be 11pm by the time i get out of work tonight. I am so giddy and anxious...i hope i can sleep tonight.

[GP2004]

Condition is very important, but with equal condition, I've read the Tyrolean is the most valuable. The Tyrolean has a curved cheek piece and a hook butt plate, and is an absolute joy to shoot! I could not miss with the one that I shot. I saw a used one at a local gun shop for $300.00 in 1981. I tried to buy it, but they wouldn't drop the price. It did sell. Note - $300.00 was a lot of money in 1981! I don't know what it would sell for today.

[Jason_Garvin]

Well hard to beat these in the accuracy department.  I have had a few.  If I was looking at one, naturally any cracks in the wood behind the trigger guard.  You'll want to make sure the recoil sled works, and check the crown and see if it has had a steel rod used for cleaning and you'll see a shiny area around the crown if the cleaner wasn't careful.  Check out the breech seal and see if it is red, green or blue, would indicate newer seal.  And if you look past the breech seal and see the bumper, if it is a nice bright white, green or red would indicate it has been replaced also.  Wouldn't hurt to check the cocking arm and make sure it hasn't been racked on anything.  The trigger carriers have been shown to break if someone manhandled installing the trigger blade, or failure to remove the blade while disassembling and racking it on something.

You can do a search and find the serial number / manufacturer dates, and you'll find running targets, universals, match, bringing good money.

Good Luck,

Hope this helps,

Jason G

[stija]

Thanks alot guys.  Would a stock spring configuration or one modified with JM spring be more desirable, assuming of course that both have seen same use.

And what would be a reasonable price to pay for a decent to very good condition FWB 300s?

[USMA-1982]

I know which guns you're considering purchasing.  I corresponded with the gentleman, but ended up buying another, 1972 vintage 300S in very good condition.  The price I paid is in the same range as the two modified guns you're considering.  The price for the original gun is very good depending on the condition of the metal - bluing 50% would concern me, but I never actually viewed the gun.

Really enjoying mine - it's a beast though compared to my CMP 853!

[stija]

On of the modified ones has been spoken for, so it's a toss between original and modified, and i am leaning towards the original now.  But if the modified one is in better functioning condition than that is the one i will buy.  Bluing does not concern me, i am a utilitarian shooter not a collector, so i would choose the better performer even if slightly less appealing.

Do you have any advice to impart upon me, something that you wished you would have known before you purchased yours for example?

Modified serial #238122 production 1/78
Original serial #299758 production 9/80

[USMA-1982]

No, I'm very happy with mine.  You can easily get replacement springs in either original 2-spring or modified single spring configuration and they're not very expensive.  So you could bring the modded gun back to original or mod the original gun to suit you.  I don't think either is more desirable than the other, more how you like the way each one sounds and feels when you shoot.  The modded gun also has the loading port milled for ease of loading with a scope.  That could mar the appearance of the gun, but shouldn't affect functionality.

[grauhanen]

For information on the date of FWB 300S rifles by serial number, see  http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/fwb300date.htm  and   http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/thread/1199332111/FWB+150-300+Date+of+Manufacture
Note that the FWB 300SU (Universal, for adjustable) model is more desirable, all things being equal.

[scrane]

Thanks alot guys.  Would a stock spring configuration or one modified with JM spring be more desirable, assuming of course that both have seen same use.

And what would be a reasonable price to pay for a decent to very good condition FWB 300s?

I, personally would go with the stock spring. The springs are counter-wound to theoretically cancel out torque. Less fpe also means less stress on the system.
The 300s is very easy to cock, and gentle to shoot, so a broken stock should not be an issue unless it was mishandled. Stock dings and worn out bluing is common on heavily used guns. Cocking a 300s should remind you of winding a watch.
When shot a 300s should be absolutely recoil less. You will notice the sled movement, though. My WaltherLGR single stroke pneumatic has more recoil than the 300.
Shooters in very nice condition and nice wood can go for up to $600. More than that they need to be something special. A gun showing lots of use should go for around $450. This is about the lowest price I've seen on the forums.

[stija]

Well i got both guns. I just shot two 10shot group with each at 18yds rested on the forehand stock only. 

I noticed that one of them recoils much easier than other one, and i noticed it after i shoot them and before cocking. One can easily be moved back and forth almost feeling loose while the other one is not moving so freely, yet it will still move. Is it supposed to feel loose or more of a controlled movement. And when shot one recoils just back and stays there until cocked while the other recoils back and then 50% to the front, where 50% refers to the total movement/recoil backwards when shot. 

They feel the same when shot, not like one has more recoil than other, even though one i supposed to be 10% stronger.

Another "difference" i noticed is in the stocks. Aside from one being beech and other walnut, the beech stock has sharper curves at the handle than the walnut does as well as differently shaped cheek rests. I am not even sure the other stock is beech, it looks like just a different stain rather than different wood, but again i am no wood is expert. The older stock is an inch longer also than the newer one, and trigger guard has three holes on one and two on another. The rear sights are identical except for one being longer at the base by 1/2".  And one is missing a metal ring at the front of the front sight, and i only know this because the other has this ring as seen in pics.

[stija]

So i shot a few more groups. These are the findings..

1. The looser rifle is so loose that after i shoot it if i put it in a vertical pointing up the action slides back and if i tilt it forward the action slides forward and locks. The other rifle's action doesn't slide like that.

2. Both triger guards are plastic and they differ.

3. The looser recoil action rifle is definitely less sproingy, or not at all.

4. The looser recoil action rifle has lost 2/3 of its bluing. The other about 25% and definitely more shiny than the first one.

I am thinking i am going to keep the looser action rifle because it is in generally worse shape even though a few years younger. I think i can get more money for the nicer looking rifle and since i am more of a utilitarian type of character both rifles would do the job of plinking anything in my <30yd back yard.

If someone knows of a good link on a tear down and general maintenance please link it here for me. I plan on taking the stocks of the actions, at least, since i want to inspect it and also learn what i am dealing with.

One most noticeable thing when shooting them is the lightness of the trigger, I'm impressed.

[stija]

I am not really trying but rather shooting to get s feel for the rifles and i keep shooting 3/8" of less..goes to show you that a properly engineered tool can make the toolman better.

I also noticed that one rifle has a green seal and "piston block?" while the other has them in blue.  And the one whose recoiling action moves freely goes back and all the way forward and locks itself most of the time, and if it doesn't by the time i jerk it upright off the bag it locks then. The other rifle does not slide freely like that and i imagine that it needs to be lubricated to slide freely as well.  Does anyone know for sure? It makes more sense to me that it should be moving back and forth with the two recoils of a springer.

[USMA-1982]

The one with the shorter stock might be a "Junior" - are the barrels the same length?

[stija]

Yes they are.

And the stock isnt really shorter, rather the forehand angle is steeper so there is 1/2" less stock around action/receiver and when looked up from above it has the appearance of being shorter. I noticed later that it isn't really though.

[cnjl3]

I really am happy that I bought mine. It just makes me want to buy either a
FWB 65 or FWB 80. Either one would allow me to cross another entry off of my bucket list.
http://www.pilkguns.com/tenp/fwb300s.htm

[anuthabubba]

A backup can be a good thing. The Jr/Mini model doesn't have the barrel weight and has a shorter LOP.

[stija]

Ed and Carlos, when you guys shoot does your action recoil back and forth or just back a little without going forward also? And how loose is the action after shooting it but before cocking it? If you were to hold the gun with muzzle point up (vertical) would the action slide all the way to the back? And viceversa, if you point the muzzle down will the action slide back and lock itself?

Would you please look at it next time you play/shoot your loved 300S's? One of my rifles is much smoother than the other and I'm guessing one of them is not supposed to be the way it is, but which one? I am suspecting it needs to be loose and freely slide back/forth.

Thanks.

[cnjl3]

Okay, I just shot mine to look at it. Right after the shot the "receiver" will slide towards the rear and then if I tilt
the muzzle down it will slide forward and lock in place. If I shoot and keep it level it doesn't slide but during the cocking stroke it will move forward and "lock" in place for the next shot. Seriously, I have heard of both conditions and I really don't know which is "better/worse."
I guess you could call D Slade or Pilkguns and ask them which one (maybe neither one) would need maintenance.

Enjoy your new toy!

Carlos

[scrane]

On my 300s the receiver slides freely forward and back with no angular or lateral play. The action will move as the gun is tilted if not locked. The action should not rebound as far as the rear stop when firing. You should be able to cock the gun easily without removing it from the bags, and the last part of the cocking cycle should cam the action forward to lock.  The rifle that slides sluggishly is not functioning properly. The slide mechanism may be gummed up with dried lubricant or something is bent.

[stija]

On my 300s the receiver slides freely forward and back with no angular or lateral play. The action will move as the gun is tilted if not locked. The action should not rebound as far as the rear stop when firing. You should be able to cock the gun easily without removing it from the bags, and the last part of the cocking cycle should cam the action forward to lock.  The rifle that slides sluggishly is not functioning properly. The slide mechanism may be gummed up with dried lubricant or something is bent.

That's what i thought.  The loose sliding one never travels all the way back before it bounces forward secondary to the forward recoil of springer airguns. It does on occasion lock itself by sliding forward, i would say about 50% of times.  The second 300S does not recoil forward, only backwards and doesn't hit the backstop either.  I suspected it should be looser and travel freely so that it could eliminate the two recoils generated upon firing. 

I will have to take the stock off and look at it closely.  I hope the recoil mechanism can be readily seen and maintaned/repaired without full disassembly of the rifle or compression chamber.

Thank you both for your help with this, i appreciate it.