Looking for a springer for hunting, help me choose?

[mista meener]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

[Bryan Heimann]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

I had a .177 Stoeger X10 that, after a proper debur and lube, with a CDT trigger,  pushed about 13 fpe with no noticeable change in poi regardless of the placement of my hands on the stock.  I could shoot 5 pellets from 5 different positions and keep them inside a inch at 20 yards no problems. I am saying, with ease.  I could drill the bottom of a soda can all day ane i mean literally all day long with zero effort  shooting that gun.  This was a $70 chinese gun from pawn shop.
I also had a X20S that I did all I could to boost power, which touched 17 fpe fresh but wore back down to 14-15 after a couple days of shooting.  It went from lights out to more hold sensitive than my WTM for almost no real gain in power.

A "properly adjusted" spring gun that isn't pushed to it's limits is a pretty sweet shooting gun.  I would bet the difference between a 11 fpe U.K. spec gun and the same gun just barely pushing passed the 13 fpe mark can be equally as sweet.

[anuthabubba]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

Diplomatic answer: Some springers are easier than others, to shoot accurately.

And:

[mista meener]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

Diplomatic answer: Some springers are easier than others, to shoot accurately.

And:

    well I will have to get rid of the 15 that I have to find one that shoots into a tiny area at 30 yds no matter what the holds. Or can it be a case where you never hear of the many misses and wounded but only the few hits?

[nced]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

IMHO......IF the springer is consistent in the first place then it requires much practice to get repeated results under field conditions. One tool I use is the 100 bull targets I've made up for practice shooting one pellet per bull. Here is an example shot with my .177 HW95 upstairs at 18 yards hunter class field target style.
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
 I do almost all my shooting HFT style (sittin' on a bucket restin' the gun on cross sticks) which includes field target and outdoor practice out to 53 yards (max shooting distance of my back yard shooting lane. Shooting upstairs at 18 yards (max available) allows practice in calm conditions so only my only concern is the shooting form.

Not long ago I started shooting a target and the poi was orbiting the aim point but I made the assumption that I was simply having a bad shooting session. Here is the target shot.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Notice the "zeroing group" and the way the pellets were orbiting around bulls #1 through #23. Well, just for grins I removed my scope and mounted an old Aeon scope. I roughly zero'd Aeon and then shot the 10 shot group above bull #35. LOL.....pulled the Aeon off the HW95, called Trenier where I had bought Optisan Viper scope a couple years ago, sent in the old Viper and had a brand new one on the doorstep a little over a week later and my HW95 is "wearing" the new replacement 3-12x44 Viper with the SCB reticle. I do have to put in a plug for Trenier and their prompt courteous customer service!

Anywhoo.......IMHO, "jumpers" which I like to call my R9 & HW95 even though they're tuned to only about 12.5fpe (CPLs at 850fps) require a lot of practice (for me anyway) and the shooting form must be exactly the same with each shot which is the purpose of shooting the hour long 100 bull targets on occasion!

[mista meener]

I know you said no hand pump but a Benjamin Discovery is really easy to pump. Pumping from 1000 psi to 2000 psi is a breeze and would give you 16 -20 shots. I use mine for squirrels and it's plenty of shots for a hunt. You can get the combo for just under 400 hundred. The disco is very light, sitting around 6 lbs. It's great to carry around in the woods too.  Hope this helps and good luck!

  never understood how you can hunt very small game with a springer and try to hit a tiny area from different positions. every springer I have shoots different POI if I slightly change the hold and groups open way up. I have a diana 48 in 177 and will only shoot off a paint roller rest I made very accurate. just cant figure out how to bring that setup into the woods lol. disco way better

IMHO......IF the springer is consistent in the first place then it requires much practice to get repeated results under field conditions. One tool I use is the 100 bull targets I've made up for practice shooting one pellet per bull. Here is an example shot with my .177 HW95 upstairs at 18 yards hunter class field target style.
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
 I do almost all my shooting HFT style (sittin' on a bucket restin' the gun on cross sticks) which includes field target and outdoor practice out to 53 yards (max shooting distance of my back yard shooting lane. Shooting upstairs at 18 yards (max available) allows practice in calm conditions so only my only concern is the shooting form.

Not long ago I started shooting a target and the poi was orbiting the aim point but I made the assumption that I was simply having a bad shooting session. Here is the target shot.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Notice the "zeroing group" and the way the pellets were orbiting around bulls #1 through #23. Well, just for grins I removed my scope and mounted an old Aeon scope. I roughly zero'd Aeon and then shot the 10 shot group above bull #35. LOL.....pulled the Aeon off the HW95, called Trenier where I had bought Optisan Viper scope a couple years ago, sent in the old Viper and had a brand new one on the doorstep a little over a week later and my HW95 is "wearing" the new replacement 3-12x44 Viper with the SCB reticle. I do have to put in a plug for Trenier and their prompt courteous customer service!

Anywhoo.......IMHO, "jumpers" which I like to call my R9 & HW95 even though they're tuned to only about 12.5fpe (CPLs at 850fps) require a lot of practice (for me anyway) and the shooting form must be exactly the same with each shot which is the purpose of shooting the hour long 100 bull targets on occasion!

Come on Ed I was just talking of us ordinary humans lol. You are one of the best shots here understand the guns inside out work on them like  tuner and practice your brains out not on a bench. still cant figure if you bring your bucket and sticks while hunting pretty easy to do if squirel hunting not really have to walk that far.  cant believe you had trouble with the viper being your rifles are not thumpers. what scopes have you had that really held up?

[39M]

Hang those targets up in an oak tree and give it a shot.

[nced]

A few replies...........

"You are one of the best shots here"
LOL....like most shooters I have good, bad, and embarrassing shooting sessions but I have found that my shot placements have gotten better by shooting the 100 bull targets at only 18 yards.  Anywhoo......your belief that I'm some sort of "expert marksman" is countered by some of my field target match performances like the next to last place score I "won" at the 2015 National Field Target match in Ennice, NC. LOL....here are the piston gun hunter class standings at that match.........

xxxxx xxxx TX200 JSB 7.9 Optisan 3-12 Hunter Piston 38 1st
xxxxxxx xxxxxxx HW97 CPL 7.9 Hawke Sidewinder 4x12 Hunter Piston 34 2nd
xxx xxxxxxx HW95 CPL 7.9 Optisan viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 30
Ed Canoles HW95 CPL 7.9 Optisan Viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 27
xxx xxxxxxxxx HW-97KT H&N FTT 8.64 Optisan Viper 3-12 Hunter Piston 26
LOL.....hitting 27 out of 120 shots is indeed one of those EMBARRASING scores for me, however I do feel that it might perhaps be an encouragement to shooters new to field target!


"still cant figure if you bring your bucket and sticks while hunting"
If I'm stalking squirrels in the early season when the trees still have leaves I take my cross sticks along after extending the legs. This gives me a good walking stick to help get my low crotch over a barbed wire fence or to have a quick gun support if I'm not close to a "resting tree". If I spread the legs on the cross sticks and kneel on one knee before resting the gun I have a kind of tripod setup to help steady my hold. When still hunting in the late season when the trees are bare and it's difficult to stalk I usually also take my "sittin' bucket" along and shoot similar to the way I shoot at a field target match or upstairs with a couple differences. The first difference is that I'll set up the bucket (filled with snacks and a drink) at the base of a large tree so I can rest my back against the tree trunk. The next thing I do is to rest the gun on my shortened cross sticks and get a "scope rangefind" on all trees within 40 yards. Now I know that when a squirrel crosses the "magic 40 yard line" it's time to set up for the shot preferring that the squirrel gets within my 30 yard zero distance if at all possible.

"cant believe you had trouble with the viper being your rifles are not thumpers"
Well.....I guess it's all a matter of the individual scope and the amount of shooting done. Here is a pic of the stack of 100 bull targets (well...some were 50 bull) I shot upstairs at 18 yards from 2014 to 2016...........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
This doesn't even include the prep for field target matches  at my back yard shooting lane, the just for fun outdoor shooting sessions, or the matches themselves. So far I haven't found a single scope that didn't need some warranty work after a few years except my old $80 4-16x40 Center Point that I bought at WalMart but I really don't use that scope very often.

Anywhoo.....Most of my shooting is preparing for field target matches and shooting the matches themselves so I do have a backup scope handy if needed. I found that the 3-12x44 Optisan Viper to be a very robust scope and the one sent in under warranty had 10s of thousands of shots under it's belt so I was satisfied with the way it held up! Years ago I tried a Weaver V16 and within the year it developed a "floppy reticle" so it went in for warranty work. After it was returned it lasted only 6 months before the lower leg of the reticle literally snapped in two mounted on my .177 R9. I bought a 6x Burris compact scope and it was also trashed by the R9. Even my high dollar 4-16x40 Bushnell Elite 4200 AO developed "loose innerds" after a few years and when it was sent into Bushnell they couldn't repair it because the scope was discontinued and parts were unavailable.

Anywhoo.......springers are tough on optics which is why it's good to buy a robust scope with a good warranty, especially if you shoot 10,000+ pellets per year!

[Charles Outdoors]

The HW95 is a great deal at 299.00.

If you want more then the 460 is sweet. Both have good triggers and the 460 is about 24 fpe vs 14 fpe of the hw95.  The 460 is my favorite magnum air rifle. It feels more like a firearm in the hands and it was much easier to shoot accurately than my Hatsan 125.

Sweat deal on the Uramax 460 - $341.00 at Grabagun. http://grabagun.com/umarex-usa-460-magnum-hdwd-22-pellet.html?source=igodigital
Same gun as the RWS 460 with less warranty.

Now comes the Discovery. It's shorter and lighter to carry, and hits what your aiming at without caring how you hold it or what you sue for a rest.  Pumping gets old when you shooting over and over testing pellets and such, but not bad hunting unless 16-20 shots is not enough.

[nced]

"Now comes the Discovery"
Interesting because this week I received a phone call from my brother who still lives in West Virginia and has been shooting his R9s since I sold him one of mine years ago.

For squirrel hunting he decided to get a PCP and was asking about the Marauder. Being a "springer only guy" I have little practical knowledge and no first hand knowledge of PCPs so while on the phone with my brother I looked up the Marauder on the AoA web sight. My brother was only interested in .177 cal since he's also retired, the .177 pellets were a lot cheaper than .22, and he's successfully taken well over a thousand tree squirrels (both grey and fox) with his .177 R9. His thinking that a .177 Marauder shooting 10.5 grain CP heavies would be perfect for a day of squirrel hunting. He mentioned that the idea of a relatively quick second shot with little arm waving (compared to his R9) would be beneficial, and he felt that as long as he could get a couple dozen full power shots before needing a "top off" he would have more than enough shots to take a 5 squirrel WV limit. He also liked the idea that the Marauder was moderated so it would be relatively quiet when shooting.

Anywhoo....the Maurauder specs on the AoA site looked very good to me (a PCP dummy) and I mentioned this to my brother. The next day (last Saturday) I received another phone call from Henry and he had ordered a wood stocked .177 Marauder with a hand pump and fitting necessary for hookup and I think he spent about $750. Sounds like a lot of money to me and when I asked why he didn't simply use his rimfire his reply was "have you priced .22 rimfires lately???"   

Guess I'll find out how his new PCP with pump works out in a few weeks but for me the "coin is too much" and I'd rather not be bothered with the care and feeding of a PCP!

[Hoffman9517]

300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it

[Bryan Heimann]

300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it

I hate to say it but he is right.  You can't beat that deal, if you're looking for a nice springer to hunt with, the HW95 is one of the best and you can't beat that deal.  Only thing is, if you have any issues with the rifle, you're stuck with it.  Given, people are more apt to complain of misgivings than to make time give credit for a positive experience.  But I have never, not ever, read of AoA taking good care of a customer in regards to a spring rifle.  I don't necessarily believe they are even that bad, I think the staff they allow to deal with spring guns are incompetent.  They are probably fine to deal with regards to PCP's, but I still wouldn't give them my business unless it was a heck of a deal.

That said, I guarantee they look at these forums.  To see the same stories I've seen and never address them is pretty shady.

[anuthabubba]

If I didn't already have 3x HW95/R9s and 3x HW85/R10s in various calibers, I'd be all over that deal! Occasionally consider it anyway, after reading about Ed's experience with the newer model.

[bandg]

RWS/Diana 460 is an excellent field rifle-plenty of power and accurate.  If you can carry it around, the Walther LGU accuracy is tough to beat and has enough power for closer range hunting.

[nced]

300 dollar hw95 at aoa no doubt. I can't not reccomend it

I hate to say it but he is right.  You can't beat that deal, if you're looking for a nice springer to hunt with, the HW95 is one of the best and you can't beat that deal.  Only thing is, if you have any issues with the rifle, you're stuck with it.  Given, people are more apt to complain of misgivings than to make time give credit for a positive experience.  But I have never, not ever, read of AoA taking good care of a customer in regards to a spring rifle.  I don't necessarily believe they are even that bad, I think the staff they allow to deal with spring guns are incompetent.  They are probably fine to deal with regards to PCP's, but I still wouldn't give them my business unless it was a heck of a deal.

That said, I guarantee they look at these forums.  To see the same stories I've seen and never address them is pretty shady.

A consideration for me is the cost of shipping a whole HW95 back to a vendor for warranty work and since the HW95 isn't "rocket science", and there aren't any parts that can't be replaced by an owner with moderate mechanical skills............I've learned to simply "do my own" particular tweaks and lubing even knowing that I've voided the warranty! LOL....I can swap out a HW95 spring and reassemble in less than 1/2 hour so it really isn't a big deal.

Anywhoo....after buying, tuning and selling over a dozen .177 R9s over the years I haven't found a bad one yet so I'm really not too concerned about the need to return one but I do need to replace springs and perhaps the piston seal every few years which is why these items are considered "consumables"!  LOL....here is my HW95 completely broken down straight from the box after and initial "function test" and before the degrease and re-lubing with Krytox GPL205.........
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com
Uploaded at Snapagogo.com

[Bryan Heimann]

Ed, I agree 100% regards to fixing vs. shipping a springer.  Once you learn to work on them, unless you want to return it for a full refund (and unless that is an option) then they are pointless to ship for work.  With the exception of a handful of very good tuners, no one else will do work on these guns that is any better than your own.  Plus the cost of the very best parts/kits and shipping is probably the same or less than the price of shipping a gun two ways.

The problem is, not everyone knows how to work on them, or is even willing to learn.  Of course, that probably doesn't apply to anyone on this forum   Whether by necessity or not, we tear them down and fix them up eventually.