2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge



Author Topic: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge  (Read 7254 times))

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2016, 09:51:42 AM »
Bob, one thing I noticed and don't know if it will make a difference.

The 2240 that I just got has a different hammer than my previous ones.  This one (I think) was made in 2015 and came with a notched hammer.

I don't have a scale to weight the two for comparison but there's probably a slight difference which may effect comparing results between "stock" hammers.

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2016, 12:34:55 PM »
see the first rule.... any hammer you want....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2016, 01:20:53 PM »
Sorry Bob, totally had that wrong side up in my head.

Thanks,
Blue
  • Colorado

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2016, 05:18:08 PM »
Here is something that might be fun....

Bob

Bob, that may prove to be the understatement of the year.

I've got to revise my design at some point (which is fine as I'll need to make more so ALL my 22xx bases can have them) because I'm sure there's drag in my system that can be improved.  That being said, I'm having a hoot looking at the improvements I'm seeing already.  I took a baseline of the fresh 2240 before starting to play with the SSG and my figuring showed it got around 115, maybe 120 total FPE out of the fresh cart in it's true "stock" configuration.  I still have some playing around to do but I'm pretty shocked at what the SSG has done so far.

I can't find enough time to "play" with this, it's my new favorite toy!

Fun stuff indeed.  Looking forward to seeing what everyone is getting.

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2016, 07:12:34 PM »
Many years ago, with a 1750 and careful tuning I exceeded 600 FPE from a single CO2 cartridge.... Bear in mind this was with an 18" barrel in .177 cal, and has NOTHING to do with this challenge....



Check out the blue line, with over 130 shots at over 510 fps average with 7.8 gr. pellets.... IIRC, the total was about 608 FPE at 75*F.... That was the record at the time, and I haven't heard of anyone breaking it since.... Incidently, if you expand the CO2 in a 12gr. cartridge to a gas at room temperature, it works out to almost exactly 400 cu.in.... An output of 400 FPE total is 1.0 FPE/CI.... so I was over 1.52 FPE/CI on CO2....

Bob
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 08:29:36 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2016, 10:04:15 AM »
Here are my results (after many tweaks and even more strings run).

The only thing I used that didn't come with the 2240 was the TKO and the SSG unit that I made for testing (and some white paint on the grips but they ARE the stock grips).



The hammer that came stock with this 2240 was notched and that's the one I used.  All my previous 22xx's came without the notch.

"Old" style hammer on left, "new" notched hammer on the right.



Here's the baseline string I ran before starting work with the SSG.
Using 14.3gr CPHP, shooting approximately 1 shot every 20 seconds. Ambient temp was around 65 deg F.

#     Velocity     FPE
1.     364.4.       4.2
2.     364.0.       4.2
3.     362.7.       4.2
4.     361.2.       4.1
5.     359.8.       4.1
6.     362.3.       4.2
7.     365.1.       4.2
8.     366.4.       4.3
9.     367.0.       4.3
10.   363.0.       4.3
11.   369.5.       4.3
12.   364.7.       4.2
13.   365.0.       4.2
14.   370.3.       4.4
15.   365.0.       4.2
16.   362.3.       4.2
17.   355.9.       4.0
18.   353.8.       4.0
19.   349.5.       3.9
20.   345.3.       3.8
21.   340.2.       3.7
22.   337.1.       3.6
23.   337.0.       3.6
24.   333.6.       3.5
25.   329.2.       3.4
26.   317.7.       3.2
27.   299.3.       2.8
28.   279.4.       2.5
29.   254.6.       2.1
30.   224.0.       1.6
31.   186.6.       1.1

Total FPE=114.3

Here are the pictures of the SSG I used during testing.  I had trouble getting the hole bored exactly in the center of the bolt which does leave some drag at certain positions when making adjustments.  I'm currently working on a couple more SSG's and I hope to make future versions a little cleaner.





The spring is from Ace Hardware's bin of compression springs (I can't be positive that the one in the picture above is the spring from the final setting).  It started out longer and was clipped down during testing.  It is (I think) a .025" wire with a smaller OD than "stock" (around 1/4" OD) clipped to 13 coils leaving an uncompressed length of approximately 1 3/8" and compressed under pre-load to 15/16".  Gap was set to (approx) 1/16".

Edit: added pictures of spring

Top spring is before clipping coils, bottom spring is the one used for the string I'm submitting.



Trying to show the (smaller) OD of the spring used



Showing wire diameter



Here's the string with the SSG:
Again using 14.3gr CPHP, approx. 65*F, shooting approx. 1 shot per 15 seconds.

#      Velocity    FPE
1.      355.2.     3.96
2.      365.3.     4.23
3.      362.6.     4.18
4.      363.1.     4.18
5.      361.6.     4.16
6.      356.4.     4.02
7.      356.3.     4.02
8.      358.8.     4.09
9.      354.8.     4.0
10.    343.4.     3.74
11.    348.9.     3.87
12.    348.5.     3.87
13.    347.3.     3.82
14.    355.5.     4.02
15.    350.9.     3.91
16.    355.6.     4.02
17.    356.8.     4.05
18.    354.5.     4.0
19.    350.1.     3.89
20.    357.1.     4.05
21.    356.8.     4.05
22.    359.1.     4.09
23.    355.0.     4.0
24.    351.5.     3.93
25.    354.2.     3.98
26.    357.1.     4.05
27.    354.7.     4.0
28.    356.0.     4.02
29.    357.7.     4.07
30.    362.0.     4.16
31.    360.1.     4.11
32.    355.8.     4.02
33.    360.0.     4.11
34.    348.2      3.87
35.    348.2.     3.85
36.    358.6.     4.09
37.    362.1.     4.16
38.    354.9      4.0
39.    360.6.     4.14
40.    363.2.     4.18
41.    359.0      4.09
42.    358.0.     4.07
43.    365.0.     4.23
44.    364.5.     4.23
45.    362.0.     4.16
46.    364.6.     4.23
47.    365.4.     4.23
48.    365.1.     4.23
49.    361.5.     4.16
50.    366.9.     4.28
51.    365.4.     4.23
52.    365.1.     4.23
53.    366.5.     4.25
54.    366.0.     4.25
55.    368.7.     4.32
56.    361.6.     4.16
57.    362.0.     4.16
58.    365.4.     4.23
59.    373.0.     4.42
60.    366.9.     4.28
61.    370.5.     4.37
62.    367.0.     4.28
63.    366.8.     4.28
64.    367.1.     4.28
65.    366.5.     4.28
66.    368.2.     4.3
67.    366.5.     4.28
68.    362.5.     4.17
69.    366.8.     4.28
70.    365.5.     4.25
71.    367.1.     4.28
72.    367.1.     4.28
73.    368.2.     4.3
74.    368.0.     4.3
75.    366.1.     4.25
76.    365.0.     4.23
77.    366.3.     4.25
78.    363.2.     4.18
79.    366.5.     4.28
80.    365.0.     4.23
81.    365.4.     4.23
82.    371.9.     4.39
83.    370.8.     4.37
84.    364.6.     4.23
85.    359.4.     4.09
86.    366.5.     4.28
87.    368.2.     4.3
88.    367.1.     4.28
89.    361.0.     4.14
90.    359.0.     4.09
91.    351.4.     3.91
92.    352.0.     3.93
93.    344.3.     3.76
94.    338.3.     3.63
95.    334.0.     3.54
96.    323.9.     3.33
97.    313.6.     3.13
98.    309.8.     3.05
99.    300.0.     2.86
100.   290.1.    2.67
101.   283.1.    2.54
102.   270.2.    2.31
103.   264.5.    2.23
104.   261.3.    2.16
105.   251.5.    2.02
106.   245.0.    1.91
107.   236.4.    1.77
108.   228.0.    1.65
109.   221.9.    1.56
110.   212.4.    1.43
111.   196.5.    1.23
112.   182.4.    1.06
113.   170.3.    0.92
114.   161.1.    0.82
115.   150.5.    0.72
116.   ERR.       0
117.   ERR.       0
118.   ERR.       0

Total FPE=431.34

Please excuse me if my math skills are off, I'll double check my numbers after posting and make any necessary edits.  I just wanted to get my post in and that was a lot of numbers to keep straight while transcribing the data over.

I can't wait to see what other people have come up with.

Thanks for the challenge Bob!

Blue
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 02:36:46 PM by Blue »
  • Colorado

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2016, 02:39:47 PM »
You went from 26 shots over 300 fps to 99.... nearly 4 times as much.... and nearly 4 times as much total energy as well.... Kind of reduces the cost of using CO2, HUH?.... If you only count the shots at over 4 FPE, you have 5 times as many.... 90 compared to 18....  :o

Well done.... I hope we get a few more entries....  ::)

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline oldpro

  • JSA
  • Vendors
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 6258
  • yes
  • Real Name: Travis
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2016, 03:04:39 PM »
 Ok im in now! Just got one in the shop stay tuned.
  • USA, CA, Mt. Shasta
FX tarantula

Evanix Speed .22
Vulcan .25
AA-S510 Ultra carbine
Marauder .25 full ART upgraded
Evanix max ML .45

Prod
Taipan Shorty

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2016, 03:05:16 PM »
Thanks Bob!

Here's a couple thoughts I had while testing this rig.

I can feel some bind in my SSG which is manageable for now but if done slightly better would possibly even things out more and thus add to the efficiency.  Also better (or sorted) pellets may also slightly boost the numbers if you're looking for less deviation from shot to shot.

I wanted to keep things as "stock" as possible (i.e. not changing the hammer weight or style) to see what ONLY adding the SSG with a different spring would do.  Again, if looking to find the "best" string possible, playing with the hammer might be next on my list.

Interesting but probably not relevant was that it seemed to be most efficient at around 4.2 FPE which I think was close to the energy output for your crazy efficient .177 record above.

I'll be playing around with this for a while getting things dialed in for my other 22xx platforms.  I can't wait to see what happens when we step away from "stock" and start seeing what happens when tinkering with the valve, ports, and barrel length get thrown into the mix.

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2016, 03:07:33 PM »
Blue, did you notice I broke my own record recently in the SSG thread.... I'm now at 627 FPE from a single 12 gr. cartridge, in .22 cal with 18.1 gr. pellets and a 24" barrel.... Post #728 on page 37...

Bob
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 03:09:05 PM by rsterne »
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2016, 03:08:53 PM »
Kind of reduces the cost of using CO2, HUH?...

Yeah, those test strings just went on and on and on.

I'm going to have to figure out a new system for keeping track of how many shots into a cart I am.

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #31 on: February 28, 2016, 03:11:46 PM »
Blue, did you notice I broke my own record recently in the SSG thread.... I'm now at 627 FPE from a single 12 gr. cartridge, in .22 cal with 18.1 gr. pellets and a 24" barrel....

Bob


You are a genius with too much time on your hands.

Please continue because a bunch of people are going to stand on your shoulders and you'll just elevate the position we get to start from.

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline David Mccann

  • Sharp Shooter
  • ****
  • Posts: 532
  • Real Name: david
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #32 on: February 28, 2016, 08:31:53 PM »
thank for the info sirs.
  • deer lodge TN.
well, it's on the first walking cart out of east Egypt on friday, next week.  http://s1190.photobucket.com/user/davidmccann1969/slideshow/

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #33 on: February 29, 2016, 06:10:06 PM »
And the winner (and only contestant) is....

BLUE

Congratulations, Sir, on showing the gains possible on CO2 by using an SSG.... Well Done !!!

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline cilami

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • yes
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #34 on: February 29, 2016, 06:15:13 PM »
Blue did a good job but you did not wait for Travis. Not fair! ;)

Offline Blue

  • N.U.A.H. Expert
  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1035
  • yes
  • Real Name: Blue
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #35 on: February 29, 2016, 07:00:06 PM »
Thanks Bob, this was more eye openning than I anticipated and a lot more fun than I could have hoped for!

I'm pretty sure your overall record is safe but I can't wait to see mine broken!

Blue
  • Colorado

Offline daveb50

  • Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Real Name: Dave
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #36 on: February 29, 2016, 08:36:50 PM »
Congrats Blue, the only guy around that still has a stock 2240.  ;D  :o Great information on the SSG.
  • Northern Ky
Dave
Hammerli 850 AirMagnum .22 cal., LDC
Sheridan Blue Streak 1968
Crosman 2260 Boyds Barracuda stock, ACC LDC
Crosman 1740 12" bbl, Walnut Grips, TKO LDC
Crosman 1077
P17

Offline rsterne

  • Member 2000+fps Club
  • Bob and Lloyd
  • GTA Senior Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 21000
  • GTA Forums Person of the Year 2017
    • Mozey-On-Inn
  • Real Name: Bob
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #37 on: February 29, 2016, 11:14:24 PM »
Contest, as per posted rules, ended last night....

Bob
  • Coalmont, BC, Canada
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsenal:
1750 CO2 Carbine, .177 Uber-Pumper, .22 Uber-Carbine, .25 Discovery, 2260 PCP 8-shot Carbine, 2260 HPA (37 FPE), 2560 HPA (52 FPE), .22 QB79 HPA, Disco Doubles in .22, .25 & .30 cal, "Hayabusa" Custom PCP Project (Mk.I is .22 & .25 cal regulated; Mk.II is .224, .257, 7mm, .308 & .357; Mk.III is .410 shotgun and .458 cal), .257 "Monocoque" Bench PCP, 6mm Regulated PCP and .257 Unregulated, Three BRods.

Offline cilami

  • Marksman
  • ***
  • Posts: 344
  • yes
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2016, 07:33:20 AM »
Contest, as per posted rules, ended last night....

Bob

I missed that, my appologies.

Offline howie1968

  • Plinker
  • **
  • Posts: 283
  • yes
  • Real Name: Howie
Re: 2240 Leap Years SSG Challenge
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2016, 03:33:59 PM »
since those shots were so consistant, ill bet accuracy was great as well?  is that what you would strive for in say a stock 10 m gun? the thought of 100 or so shots to 1 co2 is insane but yet makes me think if its that consistant what that can do for accuracy. im not much of a tinkerer yalls minds are way above mine but for the average shooter like me you can get alot of shooting in.  thanks for all that valuable info men
  • Lufkin Texas
2 Ruger impact 22
2 Ruger Blackhawks
2 custom shop 2400KT 22
BC bull whisper 177
Hatsan 95 vortex .25
2 Hatsan  95 vortex in .22
2 hatsan 125 vortex .25 and .22
2 Hatsan 95 Vortex .22



hawglite pro staff
Texas Boars pro staff
tinks 69 pro staff( hog scent division)
Owner of HCJH guide service
 I specialize in guided night hunts for trophy hogs

How do you word it... "Air Guns" or "AirGuns"?