A .177 cheapie

[Underdog]

Nice work Tom!
One of these days I'll do a proper test on my original 880 to see how it does. I can't imagine I'll get close to 800fps though.

[seitg74]

Quick question for you Stony.  Is there any difference between the light brown 880 and the dark brown?  Neither have the tru glow sights.  The dark brown is modded with your flat top piston but the light brown seems to shoot almost as fast stock form.  Didn't get the crony on it yet, just going by penetration in duct seal.  Thanks

[stonykill]

Quick question for you Stony.  Is there any difference between the light brown 880 and the dark brown?  Neither have the tru glow sights.  The dark brown is modded with your flat top piston but the light brown seems to shoot almost as fast stock form.  Didn't get the crony on it yet, just going by penetration in duct seal.  Thanks

 No difference, but some shoot low 600's out of the box, most around 650 out of the box, and every once in a while one comes out of the box like this.



   These are mass produced in China, where they are given no attention to details. Details make the gun.

  That's why these low dollar pumpers deserve a good tune. Unless they are like my 901. I just gave that a trigger mod for the time being. I'll tune it someday to pump it less. That's my goal, less pumps for the same or more power than stock, and the power there when you do indeed need it.

   I shot a nutter the other day with this 880, at 15 pumps with 10 grin pellets (12 FPE) . The pellet went clear through the skull exited the neck  and kept flying (frontal shot). WAY more power than I needed.

[stonykill]

Nice work Tom!
One of these days I'll do a proper test on my original 880 to see how it does. I can't imagine I'll get close to 800fps though.

 Thanks Jim! This is quickly becoming my favorite.

[seitg74]

Makes sense Tom.  You should have your own YouTube channel for Daisy mods.  That would be great as sometimes I have a hard time with all the details.  I don't have mine shooting near as hard as yours.  Think I got 10 ft lbs with the flat top and 11.57 grain Beeman silver arrows.  I should try heavier ones yet.  Thanks.  T

[stonykill]

Makes sense Tom.  You should have your own YouTube channel for Daisy mods.  That would be great as sometimes I have a hard time with all the details.  I don't have mine shooting near as hard as yours.  Think I got 10 ft lbs with the flat top and 11.57 grain Beeman silver arrows.  I should try heavier ones yet.  Thanks.  T

 Thought about it.

  I also have to get hold of some heavier pellets. 12 FPE with 10 grains isn't bad. I'd rather shoot slower with a heavier pellet and have more FPE.

[K.O.]

Me I do not mind pumping so if I lose power at 3-10 pumps to gain at 15-20 pumps I will do it...

so me I will make my valve as big as I can get it... having 7 fpe and skill works and takes more skill about knowing limits than 12 fpe...

then at 20 fpe I can take further shots in worse conditions, the fpe is not just about what happens when the target is hit...heavier lead travelling the same velocity keeps more options open...and you still can shoot at 12 fpe by pumping less in fact the 12fpe is produced with less psi than before because of the larger volume...

so what is my point..?

I still have not seen the insides of an 880 well enough to know how much you can do... I actually bought one to find out but was killed in transport and I got mad at midways policies so I did not want them to have my patronage...

so I stole a pic of what I think is what Tom is calling an abutment chamber? I think that the valve assembly screws in now and this is an older one? It does look like it can be opened up some but I can not even see how the air gets in (can imagine a passage)...

I have looked for pics so I can see all angles but they just are not out there...

but yep it is the one mod I that can do a lot (maybe) ( on an all out build) 24" barreled 880... yet no one has posted pics... I do think Tom did talk about it once(or  a few times)?

But to me from the below pic it does look to be able to be hogged out enough for a 4-5 fpe gain... any one have a front view of the valve...

[stonykill]

Me I do not mind pumping so if I lose power at 3-10 pumps to gain at 15-20 pumps I will do it...

so me I will make my valve as big as I can get it... having 7 fpe and skill works and takes more skill about knowing limits than 12 fpe...

then at 20 fpe I can take further shots in worse conditions, the fpe is not just about what happens when the target is hit...heavier lead travelling the same velocity keeps more options open...and you still can shoot at 12 fpe by pumping less in fact the 12fpe is produced with less psi than before because of the larger volume...

so what is my point..?

I still have not seen the insides of an 880 well enough to know how much you can do... I actually bought one to find out but was killed in transport and I got mad at midways policies so I did not want them to have my patronage...

so I stole a pic of what I think is what Tom is calling an abutment chamber? I think that the valve assembly screws in now and this is an older one? It does look like it can be opened up some but I can not even see how the air gets in (can imagine a passage)...

I have looked for pics so I can see all angles but they just are not out there...

but yep it is the one mod I that can do a lot (maybe) ( on an all out build) 24" barreled 880... yet no one has posted pics... I do think Tom did talk about it once(or  a few times)?

But to me from the below pic it does look to be able to be hogged out enough for a 4-5 fpe gain... any one have a front view of the valve...

 There are pictures in this gate somewhere. What you are looking at is the valve chamber. This is a plastic reciever 880 pictured, with the push twist valve. The old ones had a screw in valve.

   On a couple of the .22's I have done, I have hogged a lot out of the valve area, as well as the abutment chamber ( the front)  and opened up the opening connecting the 2.

  And as you say, what you lose on the bottom, you pick up on the top end. What I noticed is, stock n 880 is most efficient at 12 pumps. 1 to 3 point spread over a 5 shot string. At 15 pumps it widens a few points, by 20 pumps it is over 10 FPS spread. So I totlly lose interest at 20 pumps stock. Hogged out ( I don't have a pic of one I hogged out) the spread stays in the single digits to 20 pumps. And as you stated, lose on the bottom pick up on th top.

   I know what you are saying with FPE, distance etc. All in how you hunt, in which way you would want to go. As you know, for me, the fun is getting as close as possible. Heck, the last 5 deer I have shot with my Savage 99 .308 were within 25 yards of me. It is who I am.

   So I prefer to build the pressure quicker, to peak pressure, rather than pump my right arm off in between shots. Yet I am experimenting with both.

   Pictured is the 1st ever main body I modded. Didn't open it much at all, but you can see a difference. And as you stated Kirby, by hogging out a lot, that is a large part of how I picked up 5 FPE at 15 pumps.

 Abutment chamber
 

 valve chamber

 

  I opened up more on the 24 inch barrel .22. I could have removed more. I may on one soon. Got client work to do 1st before I experiment more.

  So while I will experiment with max power, I am more interested in fewer pumps = more power. What I did find interesting is Matt's 2100 build. At 15 pumps I'm 35 FPS behind him currently.I'm at 795, he is at 830. He replaced a bu-tt load of parts to get there. I replaced a hammer spring. And worked with what is there. So my goal on this one, if there still even is one, is to get to his 830 at 15 pumps, just continuing to work with what I have here. Even if I can't, I say the power potential for an 880 or 901, is quite incredible without any aftermarket parts and just a hammer spring from Ace Hardware, some JB weld , time with a dremel tool, and a lot of attention to details.

  I find it all interesting. But my main personal interest is what kind of power I can make at 15 pumps or less. I may be a huge pumper fan, but I am not of fan of pumping 22 times between shots. Call it my adult ADD  . Just lose interest.

[Underdog]

One has to be careful making these modifications. I think I've ruined at least two trigger sets by filing too much off the trigger. Sure I don't have clearance between the hammer fork and the valve stem clip, but the valve isn't sealing properly either... So I think my fps readings will be all over the place. Haven't chronyed enough to know. And I haven't inspected my first job yet. I know I screwed up my second one. And came too close to screwing up the third...

[stonykill]

One has to be careful making these modifications. I think I've ruined at least two trigger sets by filing too much off the trigger. Sure I don't have clearance between the hammer fork and the valve stem clip, but the valve isn't sealing properly either... So I think my fps readings will be all over the place. Haven't chronyed enough to know. And I haven't inspected my first job yet. I know I screwed up my second one. And came too close to screwing up the third...

 Indeed care is needed working on any airgun. With the unmentioned, automatic disclaimer, "if you can't do this yourself, hire someone who can"

 

[Underdog]

Well there's always a learning curve on DIY projects. I look at it this way.... At the very least, I'll learn what NOT to do... 

[stonykill]

Well there's always a learning curve on DIY projects. I look at it this way.... At the very least, I'll learn what NOT to do... 

 And that is the only way anyone will know. Try. That's what it is all about.

[stonykill]

 Just to be clear, mainly to kirby. This .177 has not been ported at all. Nothing opened up. The 23 inch barrel .22 has been opened up quite a bit. Could go a little more I am sure. But I suspect 14 FPE is about the top with a 14.3 grin in .22 without a lot more pumping and more pump volume. Now the next .177 I do for myself I'll port out big, then do what I have done to this. And probably have a slightly less than 24 inch barrel on it. That could be interesting for sure.