Pro-Sport in depth project overview

[fishhuntmike]

Thanks!!!

This is one of the best write ups in have ever seen.

Wish is wasn't such a crapshoot when one forks out this kind of money.  Glan you fully understand the quality deficiencies and were able to hammer out each and every detail!

[DanD]

Excellent write-up and excellent work. Your final result is a one-off, precision, truly hand-fitted rifle. The pride of ownership must be amazing.
Thank you for sharing!

[Nitrocrushr]

Thanks again to everyone for the nice comments, I really appreciate it   It is so rewarding to know that some of the information above will serve it's purpose in helping others to identify and correct these issues.  Makes it all worthwhile

Steve .... Wow, just a few hours there in search and resolve work !!
It is one thing to make AG's mechanically correct, quite another to detail & fine tune them tip to tail.

Great detailed work up looking like very few if any stones did NOT get overturned and addressed in detail.
Kudos Buddy ... some great work right there.

Scott

Thank you Scott, would never have been able to do it without your help

Steve

[Nitrocrushr]

I realized that I never attached a picture showing the points of the compression tube nut sticking up above the outer surface of the compression tube.

Here is a picture of the compression tube that came with my 2nd action after the first was sent back due to tight spot in the bore..  You can see that the exact same problem exists.  Points of the compression tube nut sticking up above the height of the compression tube and also slightly taller than the mashed down buttons.



This tube was rough during the cocking stroke, metal on metal rather than riding on the buttons as it should, and it also shifted within the action when cocking the rifle as seen in the videos above.

Steve

[Pappy]

I realized that I never attached a picture showing the points of the compression tube nut sticking up above the outer surface of the compression tube.

Here is a picture of the compression tube that came with my 2nd action after the first was sent back due to tight spot in the bore..  You can see that the exact same problem exists.  Points of the compression tube nut sticking up above the height of the compression tube and also slightly taller than the mashed down buttons.



This tube was rough during the cocking stroke, metal on metal rather than riding on the buttons as it should, and it also shifted within the action when cocking the rifle as seen in the videos above.

Steve

Steve, I remember seeing this in your shop.  Sometimes it's "the little things" that can make the most difference. 

Scott .... in regard to the nut shown above .... have you ever removed it from the comp tube?  It appears that it should just screw off?  If so, I think it would be a great way to visually check the fit of a custom seal?

Pappy

[Motorhead]

Scott .... in regard to the nut shown above .... have you ever removed it from the comp tube?  It appears that it should just screw off?  If so, I think it would be a great way to visually check the fit of a custom seal?

Pappy

YES, the caps indeed unscrew off the end of compression tubes.
Sadly far as AA in concerned the tube "Assembly" is not serviceable being replaced with another "Assembly"   

When disassembled there is a VERY thin cross section o-ring in there that will in all likelihood get fubarred 
Threading is very fine which has Loc-tite 242 being a good choice to use when reassembling the nut to the tube having seal be made in spite the 0-rings demise.

* Have had a couple TX's with substantial mystery compression losses chased down to this nuts o-ring failing upon being assembled at the factory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On another note to clutter Steves thread

Just got into a Pro Sport for a customer over the weekend finding yet another TOTALLY F'ed UP compression tube.
As a TX tube was previous, the rough in bore job and then precision hone job of Comp tube was a mess !!!!
This PS sadly needs a NEW Comp Tube, Piston seal & Wear rings due to VERY POOR QC at the AA factory ...
Simply shameful 

[uglymike]

I think I'm going to resist going down the AA road a while longer after following this. HW98 is looking better and better as my next new purchase!

[triggerfest]

Let's be frank... the Prosport is standard already a gorgeous airgun...

But with your work done..., really amazing !!! You may be proud of that Nitrocrusher !!!

I recognize that sense of perfectionism..., only I'm a DIY illeterate LOL

Again..., outstanding job and beautiful pics !!

Enjoy the Prosport and I'm curious to know how the Prosport behaves between your other beauties... 

[Pappy]

Scott .... in regard to the nut shown above .... have you ever removed it from the comp tube?  It appears that it should just screw off?  If so, I think it would be a great way to visually check the fit of a custom seal?

Pappy

YES, the caps indeed unscrew off the end of compression tubes.
Sadly far as AA in concerned the tube "Assembly" is not serviceable being replaced with another "Assembly"   

When disassembled there is a VERY thin cross section o-ring in there that will in all likelihood get fubarred 
Threading is very fine which has Loc-tite 242 being a good choice to use when reassembling the nut to the tube having seal be made in spite the 0-rings demise.

* Have had a couple TX's with substantial mystery compression losses chased down to this nuts o-ring failing upon being assembled at the factory.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On another note to clutter Steves thread

Just got into a Pro Sport for a customer over the weekend finding yet another TOTALLY F'ed UP compression tube.
As a TX tube was previous, the rough in bore job and then precision hone job of Comp tube was a mess !!!!
This PS sadly needs a NEW Comp Tube, Piston seal & Wear rings due to VERY POOR QC at the AA factory ...
Simply shameful 

I, for one, think AA knows exactly what they are doing.  They probably would prefer to ship better product coming off the assembly line, but more attention to margin dollars is taking precedence, driving down quality.  Every extra step in the manufacturing process takes away from the bottom line.  Sure, they probably have some quality control, but by the time they find out about a problem and fix it, they already shipped a bunch of bad ones.  They probably outsource a lot of the parts, and if you aren't careful, and constantly monitor the quality and consistency, you will have defective parts going out with the new product. Imagine what a TX or Prosport would cost, if every single compression tube was x-rayed for stress cracks, end cap nuts & prosport buttons, cocking levers, and the action in general were all inspected or tested prior to shipping?  We all pay WAY to much for these toys as it is.  I'll bet they are much more conscientious about the quality of PCP's.  You have something there that is under extreme pressure, and failure can cause catastrophic results to the end user .... a loss of a limb, or half of your face will cost them dearly in a court of law. Personally, I'll take one "perfect" rifle over a dozen mediocre guns in a collection.  Now if only I could get this 64 year old shooter "tuned" up.

[Daniel75]

Hey Steve (Nitrocrushr), outstanding job buddy, that is a beautiful rifle and excellent pictures. I have the same problem with mine and right now is in the good hands of Scott (motorhead), I'm the owner of that Pro Sport he's talking about... He already tuned my HW97KT and my R11(HW98) and he did an excellent job on both of them, so I believe my Pro Sport It will come back to me with out problems, right Scott?
again excellent job Steve and keep up the good work.

[Nitrocrushr]

Hey Steve (Nitrocrushr), outstanding job buddy, that is a beautiful rifle and excellent pictures. I have the same problem with mine and right now is in the good hands of Scott (motorhead), I'm the owner of that Pro Sport he's talking about... He already tuned my HW97KT and my R11(HW98) and he did an excellent job on both of them, so I believe my Pro Sport It will come back to me with out problems, right Scott?
again excellent job Steve and keep up the good work.

Thank you Daniel   Sorry to hear that you are dealing with some AA quality issues.  Scott will take good care of you  

The Pro-Sport and TX200 are awesomely designed rifles.  In the not so distant past I believe they could be pulled right from the box brand new without the problems so many of us are encountering now.  The same, awesome design remains unchanged, but QC of parts and/or attention to detail during final fitting and assembly has fallen apart.  Thus the need to look over each rifle closely to verify there are no issues needing addressed.  In order to do this properly you really need to disassemble and do it piece by piece.  In the end you'll have an incredible English springer as it was designed to be from the very beginning.

As Allan mentioned, Air Arms could never invest this amount of attention into each and every rifle that they send out, no one would want to pay the price.  But with a tiny bit of added QC, and some one-on-one training of the folks responsible for final assembly I think they could make some noted improvements that would go a long way in turning this trend around.

My Pro-Sport is now everything I had hoped it would be and more.  It is so refined and smooth......like a fine watch

Steve

[Pappy]

Hey Steve (Nitrocrushr), outstanding job buddy, that is a beautiful rifle and excellent pictures. I have the same problem with mine and right now is in the good hands of Scott (motorhead), I'm the owner of that Pro Sport he's talking about... He already tuned my HW97KT and my R11(HW98) and he did an excellent job on both of them, so I believe my Pro Sport It will come back to me with out problems, right Scott?
again excellent job Steve and keep up the good work.

Thank you Daniel   Sorry to hear that you are dealing with some AA quality issues.  Scott will take good care of you  

The Pro-Sport and TX200 are awesomely designed rifles.  In the not so distant past I believe they could be pulled right from the box brand new without the problems so many of us are encountering now.  The same, awesome design remains unchanged, but QC of parts and/or attention to detail during final fitting and assembly has fallen apart.  Thus the need to look over each rifle closely to verify there are no issues needing addressed.  In order to do this properly you really need to disassemble and do it piece by piece.  In the end you'll have an incredible English springer as it was designed to be from the very beginning.

As Allan mentioned, Air Arms could never invest this amount of attention into each and every rifle that they send out, no one would want to pay the price.  But with a tiny bit of added QC, and some one-on-one training of the folks responsible for final assembly I think they could make some noted improvements that would go a long way in turning this trend around.

My Pro-Sport is now everything I had hoped it would be and more.  It is so refined and smooth......like a fine watch

Steve

Daniel, I just wanted to second the statement that your Prosport is in excellent hands with Scott.  Don't you worry about a thing.

Pappy

[newlife3]

What to say , as an owner of a Prosport and someone who did do some minor tuning on it I have come across that piston problem and did what you did without any guiding help , just intuition, but man the caulking lever is going to happen soon, and with a re read of your report I am sure other actions will happen, thanks for your help, and keep on keeping on.

[Nitrocrushr]

Here is one more example of a messed up part on a brand new Pro-Sport.  After I received my new replacement action, I pulled the compression tube, piston and spring out and installed my Vortek tuned powerplant that I had in the first action.  The compression tube from my new replacement action had been sitting aside on my workbench.  This weekend I took a closer look at it, and in addition to the points on the nut sitting up too high, and the buttons being mashed down to nothing, I noticed that the spacer was tapered and all gouged up.  It appears as if someone beveled out the inner edge almost to a point.  It was a very crude job, rough and jagged.  Looks like someone carved it out with a box cutter.

Here the compression tube spacer taken off of the compression tube I got on my replacement action;



And here is a new spacer I ordered from Pyramyd Air.  Notice how the inner edge is nice and flat.  This spacer drops nicely into the groove, perfect fit.  There is no need to gouge the spacers out like the one above???



Steve

[TheBman]

Wow Steve, GREAT job on the Pro Sport and the outstanding write up!!!

[Motorhead]

Further to add content .... Replacement Comp tube for customers mentioned PS comp tube issue indeed is as Steve shared here:


Replacement ( New wrapped in cardboard from AA ) was WORSE, there was NO flat with the bevel of end nut clearly going beyond diameter of comp tube !

Needed to chuck in the lathe and make a fairly heavy cut to take the corners away as too not drag 
Bore looked honed correctly tho and we're on the way to fixing it !

[Nitrocrushr]

Sounds like a lot of them are coming through like this   I sure hope someone somewhere is taking notice to this and working to resolve.

Scott - How were the buttons on this replacement tube?

Steve

[Motorhead]

Sounds like a lot of them are coming through like this   I sure hope someone somewhere is taking notice to this and working to resolve.

Scott - How were the buttons on this replacement tube?

Steve

Buttons were tall and a perfect fit into main tube 

[Nitrocrushr]

Sounds like a lot of them are coming through like this   I sure hope someone somewhere is taking notice to this and working to resolve.

Scott - How were the buttons on this replacement tube?

Steve

Buttons were tall and a perfect fit into main tube 

That's good to hear   Anymore it seems like you need to inspect every darn part on these rifles, never know what you're going to get

[smack6969]

Steve,

Your Pro Sport and the effort you put into it is so amazing!

I reread the entire thread again this evening and was inspired to round the edges of the cocking lever on my Pro Sport(I hope to polish it later this winter).

It is much more enjoyable to shoot now.

At one am, in 30 degree Ohio weather I put 30 or so pellets down range.

You have to LOVE Air Arms rifles when they are working like they should.

Thanks,

Shawn