Hatsan 125 Cocking Effort

[Oscar M.]

Great, Volt I look forward to seeing your results. OM

[Voltar1]

135 in 22cal was 55 pounds
135 in 177 cal was 47 pounds
125 WFH in 25cal was 48 pounds.
peak force occurs at about 135 degrees arc of barrel.

[Voltar1]

Ok, while I agree with Springers work, I went about it somewhat differently. My gun is a new Hatsan 125 springer. Received Last Thurs. 4-23.
I began shooting it Sat. as work is hectic. That day it was harder to cock. Perhaps 4-5 lbs. more than the figures I'll generate. By shooting it this decreased. So, the method I used was: on a certified scale  with 4oz. divisions, the gun weighs 8.75 lbs.. My arm weighs 12 lbs. with not much shoulder resting on the scale. So, some built in error. I cocked it 3 times with the butt resting on the scale. Each time it was consistent at 58-58.25 lbs.. Upon cocking it the force required to creep it downward was steady at 55 lbs.. Only the last bit did the weight jump up to 58 lbs..
NOW, subtracting the weight of the gun. We'll call it an even 9 and my arm weight at 12 lbs.. We arrive at 37.25 lbs.. When I interpret this data
I'd put the cocking effort at a range of 37.25-38 lbs.. As these types of experiments are not exact but instead express an accurate range of operation. OM

Do not subtract your arm weight as it does not reduce the force. It would aid your hand pushing so the hand adds 37 pounds force but the resistance remains at 49 pounds for your rifle.

[Oscar M.]

Volt, What was your method? OM

[Oscar M.]

I disagree with you that the arm or shoulder weight/ force is part of the 'cocking effort'. Thus should be figured in. OM

[SpringerForever]

Finally got up the nerve to actually use my digital luggage scale in a 'real world' cocking effort test.

Velcroed the digital luggage scale to the moderator, just as I did before, & then tested the cocking effort using my natural cocking motion & came up with:

37.4 lbs
37.6 lbs
37.7 lbs

Had some spikes to ~40 lb due to not stopping when the rifle was fully cocked but otherwise a very consistent cocking effort & surprisingly 'light'. Lower than my 2nd set of numbers using a slow controlled cocking action by ~4 lbs.

That's with a Hatsan Mod 125 .25 NPSS that shoots ~25 FPE with the JSB Exact King 25.39.

So much for my contention that the real world cocking effort of the Hatsan Mod 125 .25 NPSS would be in the 50's. Guessed completely wrong. Very surprising since I expected the peak cocking effort weight to peak much higher than it did. Just assumed that the fast cocking action that I use would produce a higher spike in cocking effort. Wrong.

It had been awhile since I chronied the rifle & I discovered recently that the NPSS is now shooting in the upper 22s in FPE with the JSB Exact King 25.39 pellets. So ... keep that in mind when comparing the cocking effort numbers.

And, FWIW, I think my method, or at least a method similar to mine will yield the most accurate numbers since it basically mimics actually cocking the rile normally.

On a separate topic: I'm definitely not impressed with the longevity of either the NPSS or Vortex rams!!! In two words ... THEY S_U_C_K!

Bought the NPSS used so there's no telling how many total pellets have been thru it but I've been keeping a fairly accurate count since I received it & it's currently at ~1350 shots. When I received it, it was shooting 25+FPE so the life of the NPSS ram definitely does not impress. And I've had the same experience with the Vortex ram so AFAIC paying a premium for either one is a total waste of money. Having written that tho, hands down, I'd take a gas ram powered 'springer' over a metal sprung version any day of the week! All the more reason to find a suitable industrial ram as a replacement, which I'll do eventually.

[SpringerForever]

These 'wildly' disparate cocking numbers have got me curious.

I guess I'm going to have test the cocking effort of my metal sprung 28+FPE Walther Talon Magnum .22 (AKA Hatsan Mod 125).

Won't even bother with my Hatsan Mod 125 .25 Vortex as it was 'only' outputting 25+FPE in April of this year. Then again, I might just try it. Curiosity ... Just can't help myself. :-)

Will report the numbers here. Eventually. :-)

[Voltar1]

I disagree with you that the arm or shoulder weight/ force is part of the 'cocking effort'. Thus should be figured in. OM

gun on postal scale and zeroed.
force applied to barrel shows on scale
weight of arm is acting against the cocking force
force of arm is also acting against cocking forcenter
Scale reads cocking force.

[Oscar M.]

Doing it your method is how guys are arriving at Big numbers.??
I have to agree with Springer's numbers. You subtract the gun's weight because it's not force.
Just like the weight of a relaxed arm, not exerting force. Thus, you arrive at Only the Exerted force.
You may do it how ever you like. OM

[Voltar1]

Time to go back and study physics
Weight is acting on the spring
Gun only weight zeroed out
Sorry to inform you that your numbers are wrong.

[vernongt]

I read an article a few months ago about measuring the cocking effort of a springer, by using the bathroom scales. No need to go buy anything; unless you don't have a bathroom scale.

If you break the barrel [just past the locking spring pin], then place the muzzle onto the center of the scale and push down on the rifle to assert the pressure needed to ALMOST cock the rifle and take a reading. You could try this two to three times, to get a fair average.

I tried this myself with our digital scales and my rifles measured pretty close to the published cocking effort.

Just wanted to give you another way of doing it.

Vernon

[SpringerForever]

The body weight scale method seems to be the standard but I'll stick to my hand luggage digital scale. I believe it produces more accurate numbers than the scale method. Could be wrong but it seems that since it basically duplicates the normal cocking motion that it would be more accurate. I attach the hand luggage digital scale to the end of the barrel & then pull down on its handle & record the peak weight reading that results. I've done so now for 3 Hatsans.

The 1st has already been listed but I'll repeat the numbers again here to make a comparison between the 3 Hatsans easier.

Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 NPSS            JSB Exact King 25.39gr              22+FPE - 37.4 lbs   37.6 lbs   37.7 lbs
Hatsan Mod 125 Sniper .25 Vortex          JSB Exact King 25.39gr              25+FPE - 41.2 lbs   41.2 lbs   41.8 lbs
Walther Talon Magnum .22 stock spring  JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.13gr 28+FPE - 52.1 lbs   52.9 lbs    53.2 lbs  (AKA Hatsan Mod 125)

[Voltar1]

I will try that on mine.

[SpringerForever]

Voltar1, my WTM (AKA Hatsan Mod 125) cocking effort #'s were pretty close to your .22 135 so I'm guessing that particular 135 is outputting 29+FPE but it would be interesting to know the actual #. Even better, with the same pellet as I used for my WTM FPE testing, the JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy 18.13gr.

Either way, it will be interesting to see how your 2nd set of measurements compare to the body weight scale method.

Thank you for posting your original #'s.

[Voltar1]

Will chrony those springers this weekend
Cannot find my 50# luggage scale so the numbers from my postal scale stand.
I do not think there is a better method than using a scale that the gun weight can be
zeroed out so only the force to compress the spring is showing.