New member looking at QB78 Deluxe Air Rifle

[DaveInGA]

Bigfish, responses in quote in red

Hi Dave and welcome to GTA.  Thank you I have the QB 78 in .177 and the QB 79d in .22. both came with upgrades. Do you remember what upgrades?  How far did you go with the upgrades?  Whole hog or partial?

IN the 60 degree temperature range the 78 with the xp kit shoots 750 fps and is pretty picky on the pellet it likes. What is an XP kit?  Sorry, I'm new and there's a lot of kits on these various websites.

The 79d in .22 caliber has the xp kit, HDD and tuned valve shoots in 650 fps range with Crosman 14.3 gr HP and is not picky when it comes to pellets.  What is HDD?  From my experience with casting lead bullets and various bores on various rifles, I'm guessing the barrel on this one has a tight groove diameter if one measured it against the average barrel.  Be a good one to hang onto.

The trigger and the fiber optic sights on the 79d are by far the best way to go between the two rifles for shooting out of the box. Okay, I went and looked, but couldn't find a 79D, but found a 79 and a 78D, what's the difference?  Is the trigger and fiber optic sights on the 79D the same as the 78D?  What am I missing here?

 Good luck with what ever you choose, happy shooting.Thank you, I'm thinking right now I want as fully tuned a rifle as I can get starting with the nicest base rifle I can get, so I'm leaning towards a 78D.  I don't think I want the repeater, though loading .22 single shot may change my mind.  I'm pretty sure my round count will be low, simply due to lack of time to shoot.

[DaveInGA]

Drew, responses in quote below

Mike should have some left, but when they're gone, they're gone. Don't worry about support: Mike is a rare find, these days, and stands behind everything that goes through his door.Spoke to Mike yesterday on the phone and unfortunately, they are gone and apparently he can no longer get any more.  So I'll have to explore other options if I want a QB78D

Personally, I would call him. He takes calls while at the bench, and all conversations are great. He won't fiddle-fart around, and will cover everything he does.I did.

You can upgrade rings to milspec materials that stand up to CO2,  better. Tim at Mac1 is the fussiest,  most stubborn guy about that, and is a perfect resource. milspect material?  Do you mean for the o-ring?  I may want to do that, but I'm unsure the effect of CO2 when the rifle is stored "ready to shoot" more than it is shot.

If you're a trigger-fiend, you can definitely tune the trigger more than you'll get, especially being a smith...I'm a trigger fiend and do a lot of trigger jobs on a daily basis for revolvers and pistols, but on this gun, I'm wanting to pamper myself and have something tuned to the gills right out of the box, ready to go shoot and I don't mind paying another smith/tuner to take care of it for me.  I like/love tuning, but am basically buried in customer guns and my own personal projects, trying to get the personal projects down now, hence my reluctance to add to the pile.  I've got enough "tuneable/worn finish" guns in my collection right now.

[DaveInGA]

Bentong,

I have the QB78 deluxe, QB79 and XS60c. I shoot the XS60c more than the QB's, it shoulders better and shoots harder than the modded QB's it cost me half of what I paid for the QB's 6 yrs ago.

The XS60C was another rifle I became interested in since getting on the forums.  Does the 60 you have come from the first or second generation?  What upgrades have you had done to it?

[DaveInGA]

Steve, responses in the quote, again 

i get about 575 fps with super domes. the upgraded valve gets you 30 or 40 more fps. i didn't need it though. What's a super dome?  I'm guessing a type of pellet.  Do you have any suggestions for selecting several batches of pellets to try and get a good fit in the .22 caliber version?

 Mike can tune them up 700 fps i think. its a fun handy little plinker. if you want more power, id go to mike for sure.  The biggest concern I have is making sure a squirrel I shoot in the head isn't just injured.  I'm not big on unnecessary cruelty when shooting an animal.  I prefer to shoot accurately and kill the first shot if at all possible.  I used to hunt squirrels as a kid with the predecessor to the Daisy 880 pump .177 air rifle.  It was accurate and I shot it very well (enough to shoot mistletoe out of trees for Mom at Christmas.), but it didn't have the mustard to consistently put the tree rats down hard.

i wouldnt change anything i started with, I've had it 3 or 4  years, thousands of rounds. ive since added a scope , sling and cheek pad and a muzzle brake, its very quiet.Quiet may ver well be an issue for me.  Where and what muzzle brake did you get that quieted the rifle down?  Have a link?

i dont know about better orings, id bet every oring everywhere is made in china anyway.There difference is in the material used.  Some materials are much more resistant than rubber to other chemicals and will hold up better/longer.  But they are also much more expensive, generally speaking.

 i think there is a lot one could do with the trigger. very easy to get to and take apart.In the long run, I may very well do so if I'm not satisfied with it.

[stevemag]

sent you a pm

[drewciferpike]

I can't find the post where Tim explains the the reasoning behind the oring materials he uses with CO2... sorry.

[Bentong]

Bentong,

I have the QB78 deluxe, QB79 and XS60c. I shoot the XS60c more than the QB's, it shoulders better and shoots harder than the modded QB's it cost me half of what I paid for the QB's 6 yrs ago.

The XS60C was another rifle I became interested in since getting on the forums.  Does the 60 you have come from the first or second generation?  What upgrades have you had done to it?

Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs. I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL. My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c. I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots.

[Jobobo]

LOL at the 2 fat liberal women neighbors.

One thing to note is the QB78D by default is a CO2 gun, which you know, but the XS60c is High Pressure Air (HPA) gun even though it uses a relatively low pressure tube - 800-1500psi recommended.  That is why you need the hand pump, to pump in the pressurized air.

Welcome to the GTA, you started in the right place.

[drewciferpike]

[...] but the XS60c is High Pressure Air (HPA) gun even though it uses a relatively low pressure tube - 800-1500psi recommended. 

Not true. The stock XS60c is a CO2 rifle that feeds on powerlets or bulk. The XS60c PCP is a rifle that has had the tube replaced with a PCP tube, but because the internals are all the same, the 1500psi fill is recommended.

[Jobobo]

Thanks for clarifying. I was referring to the previous post where DaveinGA was asking about the pump and someone's recommendation for the XS60c PCP.   Sorry to confuse.   The PCP version is the one most people are keen on, since it is the cheapest option out there to break into the PCP market and with the low pressure fill requirements it is much easier to pump than the multitude of 3000psi guns out there, and vastly more so than the few and very expensive 4500psi guns.

DaveinGA, glad to have more NE GA folks around.

[drewciferpike]

Oh, sorry... too many variations of the same name! Haha.

Tying this back to the QB part of the thread, it is good to compare the two rifles, considering the application (squirrels in an urban environment).

The FDAR PCP is definitely a game-changer, and the value is simply amazing. Once the REAL mods start, I think we'll see some stupid-good efficiency and shot counts, still with a 1500psi fill. I'm waiting to see someone develop an exterior power wheel (hint, hint, OP! haha), as the multi-mag mod has already been proven. With all of that, an LDC, and a pump, you're rubbing shoulders with AA, FX, etc...
For the OP's sake, getting the PCP, pump, and an LDC will have him ready to go in a backyard-friendly manner, with the power question not even applicable, any more because either flavor will absolutely own any squirrels within range (in .177 or .22).

Pumping such a small tube to 1500 is an absolute joke, effort-wise: Pumping my s510 is redonkulous, compared to my dad's bottled QB, so I can only imagine pumping the 60c. This way, there's no more powerlets to buy, and you have the same velocity throughout the year.

The pump that Mike sells has actually had some changes for the better, as I can compare my dad's pump (bought a year ago) to the one I received last week. The hose now has an angled tube on one end, and comes with some extra hardware, it seems. I've been too busy with the baby to go outside and play, so I can't offer more than that.

It's definitely not a QB in looks or feel, but overall, I think it's definitely something to think about. As a gunsmith, I'm sure the OP can access all the Safe Queens he desires, so I'm thinking pure and simple hunting effectiveness.

Muddying the waters, there IS something about the stock QB's lines, balance, heft, and overall feel. I can't deny that. As a hunter, though, I look purely at effect, and how I'll use a particular rifle.

My $0.02...

[DaveInGA]

Bentong, in red in the quote again. 

Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. Why the second barrel?  QC problems with the first generation?

All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs.  Were the original o-rings improperly installed or not installed?  Can you elaborate on this?  My apologies, I know there's been some past threads on this rifle, but I'd like the short version.

I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL.When you say bulked, do you mean you're got a large gas container attached or you are using the tube the cartridges go in to bulk load with the loading valve on the CAP of the XS60C?  What is CPL?  It looks like a rating based on a mechanical/physics calculation while velocity is just the speed of the pellet going through a screen at some distance from the muzzle.

My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c.When you say open up, I'm assuming you mean the ports, passageways, etc of the rifle to allow a smoother/faster flow of CO2 to the area it needs to get to.  You're telling me the valving/ports/flow paths of the XS60C are either shorter/simpler/smoother than the QB78 with easier/faster flow to get to where the gas pressure is needed.  Which makes sense when you consider when each version was designed.  Even the newest version of the QB78 is dated compared to the XS60C's design if I'm reading the forums correctly.

I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots. It sounds like a tuned .22 caliber in a QB78 should be sufficient for dispatching the tree rats then, but a bit more with the XS60C doesn't hurt or actually puts you solidly where you want to go without pushing the rifle's design.

[bigfish123]

I'm new to co2 having spent most of my time shooting gas piston and spring piston rifles. I got into co2 this past fall. To answer your questions about my rifles. The xp kit involves the bolt, it has a small extended probe with o ring to push the pellet past the transfer port allowing better gas flow. An HDD device is an add on to the hammer to make the hammer strike the valve stem in way that causes more efficient gas release for higher shot count per charge of co2, the tuned valve delivers more gas per shot. This is the way I understand how the upgrades to my rifles effect  it's performance. If I am off on anything other members please correct me. I've read good things about the xs60 pcp from Flying Dragons but probably won't get one, the QB's fill my needs. They are far more accurate than my abilities and that is what I got them for.

[Bentong]

Bentong, in red in the quote again. 

Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. Why the second barrel?  QC problems with the first generation?

All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs.  Were the original o-rings improperly installed or not installed?  Can you elaborate on this?  My apologies, I know there's been some past threads on this rifle, but I'd like the short version.

I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL.When you say bulked, do you mean you're got a large gas container attached or you are using the tube the cartridges go in to bulk load with the loading valve on the CAP of the XS60C?  What is CPL?  It looks like a rating based on a mechanical/physics calculation while velocity is just the speed of the pellet going through a screen at some distance from the muzzle.

My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c.When you say open up, I'm assuming you mean the ports, passageways, etc of the rifle to allow a smoother/faster flow of CO2 to the area it needs to get to.  You're telling me the valving/ports/flow paths of the XS60C are either shorter/simpler/smoother than the QB78 with easier/faster flow to get to where the gas pressure is needed.  Which makes sense when you consider when each version was designed.  Even the newest version of the QB78 is dated compared to the XS60C's design if I'm reading the forums correctly.

I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots. It sounds like a tuned .22 caliber in a QB78 should be sufficient for dispatching the tree rats then, but a bit more with the XS60C doesn't hurt or actually puts you solidly where you want to go without pushing the rifle's design.

Barrel on is .177 and 2nd barrel is .22. Got the DIY 1st gen and they have a blow by from the rear of the valve...2 o-rings fixes it or get the $70.00 1st gen and mike will take care of blow by. I added a bulk fill nipple to the cap instead of using 2 carts. XS60c is configured already to shoot harder than the QB, it even have a power adjuster which I backed out to control pass thru shots. If I have to go PCP I can always screw in an 8" extention tube which I've had for the  qb78.

[DaveInGA]

Thanks for clarifying. I was referring to the previous post where DaveinGA was asking about the pump and someone's recommendation for the XS60c PCP.   Sorry to confuse.   The PCP version is the one most people are keen on, since it is the cheapest option out there to break into the PCP market and with the low pressure fill requirements it is much easier to pump than the multitude of 3000psi guns out there, and vastly more so than the few and very expensive 4500psi guns.

DaveinGA, glad to have more NE GA folks around.

Jobobo, Thanks and I have been doing some looking at the PCP guns recently myself.  Very powerful and definitely critter zappers at the bigger calibers, with the PCP able to drive the pellets in a range to provide serious knockdown power.  The only and biggest negative I see is the problem of refilling the rifle's compressed air after shooting.  I did some looking online and other than the more affordable pumps, most all the compressors or compressor adapters are prohibitively expensive.

If someone came out with a compressor or compressor adapter for $200.00 or less, that would definitely be the way to go.  I myself, being an old, fat grandpa, am not real interested in pumping up any of these rifles.  I'd rather put it on an automatic shutoff compressor, even a very slow one and go do something else while it fills.  And having a tank I have to take somewhere and fill isn't much fun when I live out in the country and any sort of outfit with a refill stations is 45 minutes drive time or better away.

This same huge laziness is why I became interested the CO2 guns.  Not much effort involved in throwing in a couple cartridges.  So it's quick/easy to load and go, relatively speaking.

[DaveInGA]

Benton, responses in red again in the quote

Barrel on is .177 and 2nd barrel is .22.  So no problem, just adding a caliber. Sounds like it's pretty simple and inexpensive to add a caliber on that rifle.

Got the DIY 1st gen and they have a blow by from the rear of the valve...2 o-rings fixes it or get the $70.00 1st gen and mike will take care of blow by.  If all it takes is two o-rings, what makes it worth it to buy the second generation until the first gen is sold out?  Does Mike do anything to the rear of the valve other than add two o-rings?

I added a bulk fill nipple to the cap instead of using 2 carts.  How are you providing the bulk fill?  What gas are you bulk filling, CO2 via paintball gun tanks?

XS60c is configured already to shoot harder than the QB, it even have a power adjuster which I backed out to control pass thru shots. So it's setup from the box to be able to fine tune the shot to shot pressure?

If I have to go PCP I can always screw in an 8" extention tube which I've had for the  qb78.  So right now it's not a high pressure setup then?
[/quote]

[drewciferpike]

I thought the tube sizes were different, between the QB and 60c?