GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: AJK 547 on March 29, 2015, 01:09:45 PM
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Newbie needs advice on new R9 and which format that makes sense...
Currently, I have a Stoeger X20S (.177) that is stock, but will add the CharlieDaTuna GTXIII trigger, one-piece mount, etc. to extract better consistency. This rifle will be used for both casual tgt. practice and small game hunting. . Next, I bought a Ruger Air Hawk, added a one-piece mount, Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO scope, shot ~ 1,200 rnds. through it. It destroyed the scope in about 700 rnds... inconsistent accuracy due to action screws constantly loosening up (even with Loctite Blue).
Soooooooo, I'm upset with my prior airgun decisions and like some honest opinions on the Beeman R9 in .177 or .20 or .22 format. Again, I'm a stickler on 'consistent' accuracy, will use the air rifle for target and field work in the 10 - 35yd. range. Also, I'm getting used to the 'artillery hold' for these springers. I also realize that the .177 format gives me by far the best pellet selection, but I'm open to either the .20 (hardly any pellet selection available it seems) or the .22 for better knockdown capabilities.
I expect/need this R9 to perform in the 0.25" CTC range @ 25 yds. for humane kills.
If you had the opportunity to purchase a new R9 (combo) and use it for target practice and small game hunting up to 35yds. what format would you select and why???
Art (Newbie) :D
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Hello Art and welcome!!
I have a 98, same action different furniture, in 177.
I chose 177 for that power plant for the trajectory, pellet choice and I mostly target shoot at 40 yards out to 75.
The rifle is just amazing!
The difference will be seen and felt the second you pick it up.
Extremely well made and built like a tank!
I had a Vortek HO kit installed with a tune and you just can't ask for more!
The .20 would be great if there was a better selection of pellets.
The .22 might suit you well also because of the shorter distances you'll be shooting.
Whichever cal you choose this rifle will have a silly grin stuck on your face!!
Good luck and let us know what you decide!
Joe
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I appreciate the info. palonej!
Question, does your R9 in .177 format have the 8 land or 12 land bbl. ??? I heard somewhere that a while back RWS was trying to save costs and outsourced their bbl. production to China (12 land) and got into quality control issues with respect to accuracy on the D34 models... I just want to be sure I'm getting a German quality bbl. on the Beeman R9 and no Chinese repop!
Also, is your R9 less harsh on scopes? The Ruger AH simply destroyed a new Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO after ~700 rnds.
Art :D
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I would go for the 95 as it gives you the option of using sights. At full power I did not enjoy my .177. Dropping it to 12 fpe it is a dream to shoot.
.20 is easier to load and would be smoother to shoot at full power. All you need for pellets are FTT's or JSB's.
Both my .20's shoot great with either.
With the Air Hawk did you change the seals? If it is loosening Loctite I would look at them.
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Question, does your R9 in .177 format have the 8 land or 12 land bbl. ??? I heard somewhere that a while back RWS was trying to save costs and outsourced their bbl. production to China (12 land) and got into quality control issues with respect to accuracy on the D34 models... I just want to be sure I'm getting a German quality bbl. on the Beeman R9 and no Chinese repop!
Also, is your R9 less harsh on scopes? The Ruger AH simply destroyed a new Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO after ~700 rnds.
The RWS or, more accurately, the Diana barrels -- whether German or Chinese -- are not used on the Beeman R9. The Beeman is made by Weihrauch and is the same as the Weihrauch HW95; the Beeman has no iron sights and has a muzzle break or some such thing. RWS/Diana and Weihrauch are very different.
The HW95/Beeman R9 will both do the trick for you at 25 yards. I would be choosing the .177 myself as it has plenty of power and has a excellent selection of pellets that are less costly than in .22 cal. The .20 doesn't have an adequate variety of pellets available.
A Weihrauch-made rifle is inherently easier on scopes than the typical Chinese manufactured air rifle. The Ruger Air Hawk has a harsher recoil and it's not surprising that the Banner scope, which is at best suitable for light to medium recoil, didn't last long.
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I appreciate the info. palonej!
Question, does your R9 in .177 format have the 8 land or 12 land bbl. ??? I heard somewhere that a while back RWS was trying to save costs and outsourced their bbl. production to China (12 land) and got into quality control issues with respect to accuracy on the D34 models... I just want to be sure I'm getting a German quality bbl. on the Beeman R9 and no Chinese repop!
Also, is your R9 less harsh on scopes? The Ruger AH simply destroyed a new Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO after ~700 rnds.
Art :D
Art!!!
The R9 is made by Weirauch!!! The 34 is RWS.
HUGE difference and no chance of a Chinese barrel.
I put around 60,000 rounds thru her and never had a scope issue. I mounted a 6-24x56 Sidewinder on top of BKL double strap rings.....never budged.
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I know you are asking about R9 in .177 .20 & .22, which I can not help you with, but I have had HW97K in both .22 & .177 and the .177 was more accurate in my situation. I shoot targets from 30 to 70 yards and occasionally up to 100 yards. :) At 30 yards they both will take pests well with the .22 offering a bit more power.
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Hi Art
I am the rather recent owner of the Beeman R9 and from what I've seen so far the 1/4" CTC groups are doable at 25 yds when the shooter does his part. I only have around 200 pellets thru her so far, but I've had a couple of groups like this. I'm still learning how to shoot it, and trying to find what pellet it likes best and I fully expect to get many more 1/4" CTC groups as I progress. I am the weak link in the equation, not the rifle. :'( Perhaps our friend Ed Canoles will chime in and show you some of his shot up targets, which will verify the accuracy of the R9.
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I really like the R9 in .177. Mines hitting 14fpe, and shoots very well with baracudas and polymags. I prefer the smaller caliber at this power level for better trajectories past 40 yards.
A few hundred rounds in, I'm now debating whether it needs a pg2 kit or not, it has smoothed out considerably - it was a bit twangy at first.
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Newbie needs advice on new R9 and which format that makes sense...
Currently, I have a Stoeger X20S (.177) that is stock, but will add the CharlieDaTuna GTXIII trigger, one-piece mount, etc. to extract better consistency. This rifle will be used for both casual tgt. practice and small game hunting. . Next, I bought a Ruger Air Hawk, added a one-piece mount, Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO scope, shot ~ 1,200 rnds. through it. It destroyed the scope in about 700 rnds... inconsistent accuracy due to action screws constantly loosening up (even with Loctite Blue).
Soooooooo, I'm upset with my prior airgun decisions and like some honest opinions on the Beeman R9 in .177 or .20 or .22 format. Again, I'm a stickler on 'consistent' accuracy, will use the air rifle for target and field work in the 10 - 35yd. range. Also, I'm getting used to the 'artillery hold' for these springers. I also realize that the .177 format gives me by far the best pellet selection, but I'm open to either the .20 (hardly any pellet selection available it seems) or the .22 for better knockdown capabilities.
I expect/need this R9 to perform in the 0.25" CTC range @ 25 yds. for humane kills.
If you had the opportunity to purchase a new R9 (combo) and use it for target practice and small game hunting up to 35yds. what format would you select and why???
Art (Newbie) :D
I can only give me experiences with R9s over a couple decades shooting .177, .20 & .22 cal. There are KNOWLEDGEABLE airgunners that disagree with me, however these are MY personal opinions!
I started out my adult airgunning with a .177 HW50 in the mid 70s and then sold it to finance a .177 HW35. After the HW35 I bought a .177 Beeman R10 using it for a few years! Then I bought a .177 Beeman R9 and I was perfectly content with the .177 pellet, however I read a lot about how the .20 cal was "mo bettah" for squirrel hunting so I bought a .20 R9.
I used the .20 cal with Beeman FTS pellets (JSBs didn't exist back then) and even did pretty good with it at a couple DIFTA field target match shooting the "hunter class". The problem I had with the .20 was that the pellet trajectory was very loopy compared to the .177 R9 unless the gun had a VERY high stress and jumpy tune (FTTs @ 825fps)! Problem is that I didn't find it was any more effective on squirrels than the .177 cal I used previously. The .20 pellet did bust up the squirrel more than the .177, however squirrel with a bit off the mark hit still travelled quite a few yards after the hit to get into a "tree hole".....just like an off the mark hit with the .177 pellet. I guess I shouldn't have bee too surprised because I've had more than a few squirrels that were drilled by a 100+fpe hit from my rimfire and still travel several yards to get into a "squirrel hole" to die. Then I read a post claiming that a .20 cal Beeman Crow Magnum pellet in excess of 14fpe ME would enlarge the killzone size by 50%. Well....I tried the .20 CM/R9 combo at 17fpe (a jumpy high stress R9 tune) and I used that setup for a whole week of WV squirrel sniping! While a solid double lung hit with that rig was "pure poison", I also noticed that my "hit to retrieve ratio" for the week was a pitiful 50% compared to 90+% with the .177 cal and moderate tune level. What the week long hunting with the .20 CM proved was that the killzone WASN'T expanded by 50% as claimed by the "guru" since the accuracy of the CM pellet was rather poor past 25 yards and I had a lot of "off the mark" hits which tested the "increased killzone size"!
Next I bought a .22 cal R1 barrel because I thought the larger pellet might be more effective on squirrels than the .20 cal. I first sent the barrel to be "chopped and choked", then used it for squirrel hunting in WV. Again, the trajectory was very loopy which made the correct holdover really critical past 25 yards, plus again I didn't see where an "off the mark" hit was a .22 pellet was any better than a similar hit with a flatter shooting .177 pellet. I guess this shouldn't have been surprising since Ive had more than a few squirrels truck it for rather long distances after being smacked with 100+fpe of 40 grain rimfire power in my PB days!
With my .177 R9 I can pretty reliably brain a squirrel at 40 yards under field conditions, however with my range guesstimate/holdover accuracy skills using the .20 and .22 pellet my max distance was pretty much reduced to the zero distance (due to the loopy trajectory I suppose), so I see no reason to hamper myself with only "zero distance shots" using a R9 powered springer! I sold both the .20 R9 barrel and the chopped/choked .22 R1 barrel reverting back to the .177!
Anywhoo......I gave up on the .20 and .22 cal barrels for my R9 a couple decades ago never to look back, however I've read quite a few posts touting the advantages of the .20 & .22 cals, but that hasn't been my experience with a R9 power level springer!
Actually......my experience is that out to 30 yards with the R9 it doesn't make a nickels difference what cal you choose!
Concerning the need for 1/4" ctc grouping at 25 yards.......IMHO, even 1/2" ctc at that distance will give adequate accuracy for "squirrel head sniping" at 35 yards! Here is a casual target I shot checking the trajectory of a certain tune level for one of the R9s I owned. This target shows 175 consecutive shots at distances from 10 yards to 50 yards shot hunter class field target style (sitting on a bucket resting the gun on cross sticks) with the same rig I use for still hunting.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2992014/1414414071_1682521968_175ShotsHFTStyleSept82010.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=59989)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Multiple 5 shot groups were done at each distance to get a better idea of my actual accuracy level when casually shooting. Casual since I was only checking out the pellet trajectory. The heavy dashed lines are 1" apart, the light dotted lines are either 1/8" or 1/4" apart, the larger bull diameter is 1/2" and the smaller bull diameter is 1/4".
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Hi Art
I am the rather recent owner of the Beeman R9 and from what I've seen so far the 1/4" CTC groups are doable at 25 yds when the shooter does his part. I only have around 200 pellets thru her so far, but I've had a couple of groups like this. I'm still learning how to shoot it, and trying to find what pellet it likes best and I fully expect to get many more 1/4" CTC groups as I progress. I am the weak link in the equation, not the rifle. :'( Perhaps our friend Ed Canoles will chime in and show you some of his shot up targets, which will verify the accuracy of the R9.
Hi Art
I am the rather recent owner of the Beeman R9 and from what I've seen so far the 1/4" CTC groups are doable at 25 yds when the shooter does his part. I only have around 200 pellets thru her so far, but I've had a couple of groups like this. I'm still learning how to shoot it, and trying to find what pellet it likes best and I fully expect to get many more 1/4" CTC groups as I progress. I am the weak link in the equation, not the rifle. :'( Perhaps our friend Ed Canoles will chime in and show you some of his shot up targets, which will verify the accuracy of the R9.
Newbie needs advice on new R9 and which format that makes sense...
Currently, I have a Stoeger X20S (.177) that is stock, but will add the CharlieDaTuna GTXIII trigger, one-piece mount, etc. to extract better consistency. This rifle will be used for both casual tgt. practice and small game hunting. . Next, I bought a Ruger Air Hawk, added a one-piece mount, Bushnell Banner 4-12X40 AO scope, shot ~ 1,200 rnds. through it. It destroyed the scope in about 700 rnds... inconsistent accuracy due to action screws constantly loosening up (even with Loctite Blue).
Soooooooo, I'm upset with my prior airgun decisions and like some honest opinions on the Beeman R9 in .177 or .20 or .22 format. Again, I'm a stickler on 'consistent' accuracy, will use the air rifle for target and field work in the 10 - 35yd. range. Also, I'm getting used to the 'artillery hold' for these springers. I also realize that the .177 format gives me by far the best pellet selection, but I'm open to either the .20 (hardly any pellet selection available it seems) or the .22 for better knockdown capabilities.
I expect/need this R9 to perform in the 0.25" CTC range @ 25 yds. for humane kills.
If you had the opportunity to purchase a new R9 (combo) and use it for target practice and small game hunting up to 35yds. what format would you select and why???
Art (Newbie) :D
"Ed Canoles will chime in and show you some of his shot up targets"
Ooooooo....thanks for the chance to post some of my targets AGAIN all shot sittin' on a bucket restin' tha R9 on cross sticks! ;D
Shot last November. 4 out of 5 JSBs went into a 3/8" ctc group at 50 yards with the second shot opening the group to 5/8" ctc
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3142014/1415743451_1738447830_50yardNov112014.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=61840)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
15 out of 20 CPLs through a 3/4" killzone at 50 yards.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2302014/1408450636_446347045_Gamotarget17_20.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=55953)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
3/8" x 1" wide at 50 yards.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2352014/1408920655_1975447583_KrytoxVAC50Y1_29_2013.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56426)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Next 5 shots on paper from the same shooting position........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2362014/1408970392_1754303378_Windy50yGroup12_20_12.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56429)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Notice the CPL group in the upper left hand corner of the target. The squares are 1" x 1"........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2042014/1406228718_334219554_Target6_5_20111.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=54133)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
LOL....I do believe that my .177 R9 is up to the task......but certainly not necessarily the shooter (ME) at all times!
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Thanks to all for the excellent info. and advice! I was leaning towards the .177 format for the same reasons as pellet selection, flatter trajectory, etc. vs. the .20 or .22 variants and everyone's insight is certainly leaning me in that direction.
FWIW, my 'field' work is done in a very dense natural forest on my property and clean shots over 35yds. is nearly impossible, hence the 10 - 35yd. working field range. Also, I demand 'humane' kill on everything I take and enjoyed seeing nced's 'trajectory' target testing his R9 tune.
nced - Your tgt. states you set 'zero' on the scope @ 30 yds.(for your tuned R9) but I see the 17yd. POI's at a nice zero, then elevate and fall back to 'zero' at the 30yd. distance. The reason why I ask is after I reviewed some .177 ballistics charts, I zeroed the scope on my Ruger AH @ 17yds. then let it give me reasonable trajectory results over the 12yd to 30yd. range very similar to your own results. I'm just trying to understand everyone's thought process!
Below are a couple tgts. @ 21 yds. (Ruger A H) but the 'flyer' is unacceptable to me:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24622740/410993100.jpg)
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24622740/410993099.jpg)
Again, I'm a newbie to air rifles and really appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses!
Art :D
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Thanks to all for the excellent info. and advice! I was leaning towards the .177 format for the same reasons as pellet selection, flatter trajectory, etc. vs. the .20 or .22 variants and everyone's insight is certainly leaning me in that direction.
FWIW, my 'field' work is done in a very dense natural forest on my property and clean shots over 35yds. is nearly impossible, hence the 10 - 35yd. working field range. Also, I demand 'humane' kill on everything I take and enjoyed seeing nced's 'trajectory' target testing his R9 tune.
nced - Your tgt. states you set 'zero' on the scope @ 30 yds.(for your tuned R9) but I see the 17yd. POI's at a nice zero, then elevate and fall back to 'zero' at the 30yd. distance. The reason why I ask is after I reviewed some .177 ballistics charts, I zeroed the scope on my Ruger AH @ 17yds. then let it give me reasonable trajectory results over the 12yd to 30yd. range very similar to your own results. I'm just trying to understand everyone's thought process!
Below are a couple tgts. @ 21 yds. (Ruger A H) but the 'flyer' is unacceptable to me:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24622740/410993100.jpg)
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24622740/410993099.jpg)
Again, I'm a newbie to air rifles and really appreciate everyone's thoughtful responses!
Art :D
You're a real good shot with your Ruger Air Hawk! Last Christmas I bought a Remington Express with the hope of turning it into a low cost hunter class field target rig.....so far it's too inaccurate no matter what modifications I've made!
My zero is very close to the apex of the pellet trajectory so I have two zeros....a near zero and a far zero with about 1/8" rise above the aimpoint at roughly 26 yards. This means that from about 18 yards to 30 yards I don't have to mess with holdover aiming, simply "aim on" and "minute of squirrel head accuracy" will do the rest. This explains a bit why the .20 and .22 cal fell out of favor with me. The loopier trajectory "squished" the "near zero and far zero" together in a rather short range forcing me to be REAL ACCURATE guessing the holdover for shots closer or longer than the two zero distances.
I also shoot field target matches in the hunter class where only holdover type aiming is allowed and "rangefinding finding by scope" is allowed at 12x max. The targets are placed at unknown distances from 10 yards to 55 yards having killzones from about 3/8" diameter to 2" diameter. There is als a 20fpe power limit in FT to keep the targets themselves from being destroyed too quickly. The object of the game is to put a pellet through the killzone which trips the paddle causing the target to fall, thus earning a point. Focusing the scope when shooting FT gives the shooter a clue to where to hold for different distances to compensate for the pellet trajectory. Some folk in other than hunter class mark their score AO or Side Wheel with the focus distance when the target is in sharp focus, then refer to a "dope sheet" to know how many mill dots high to aim. This is almost like the military snipers do and I like to think of FT matches as "10th scale shooting". While most FT shooters mark their AO/Side Wheels with yardage I only mark my SW with aiming points to get a handle on how many mil dots to hold.
A couple decades ago my brother and I started shooting field target with only one purpose in mind......get som off season practice for the fall West Virginia squirrel season and actually have fun doing it by shooting with other airgunners. The normal "sitting position" used for most FT shooters had little in common with my squirrel sniping so my brother and I only shot "standing class" for a couple years. Then I discovered the "hunter class" where the shooter was allowed to sit on a "bucket" and use terrain features between the lane markers (or the lane markers themselves) for aiming and the hunter class became "and instant hit" for my brother and myself.
The point of all this is that I use the exact same equipment and techniques for hunter class field target shooting as I do for STILL HUNTING squirrels in the late season and it's tough to stalk due to bare trees and skiddish squirrels from being hunted and chased by redtail hawks. For still hunting squirrels in WV I woulf set up my "sittin' bucket" at the base of a comfy tree trunk, scope rangefind all trees around my at 40 yards at 12x, rest the .177 R9 on my cross sticks, and then wait till the squirrels crossed the "magical 40 yard line". I hardly ever shot squirrels at 40 yards preferring to wait till the squirrel got within my "near/far zero" before taking a shot. Point being..... I set up my R9 to have the widest spread between the near zero and far zero.
Here is the side wheel marking I'm currently using for my hunter class field target shooting......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/882015/1427716442_1588085968_SideWheelMarking.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=68823)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Not fancy but after focusing at 12x if the split between the top and bottom half of my scope mount lines up on or between the "+" marks I aim "dead on", if the split lines up with "." I know to hold "one dot high", if the split lines up with ".|." I know to hold between the first and second lower dots, if the ".." lines up then I know to hold "two dots high"......so on and so forth. At only 12x the depth of field past 35 yards gets pretty deep so the exact holdover is rather imprecise, however up to 25 yards when the pellet is rising rapidly to the line of sight the scope "range find" is more precise than a LRF that rounds off the range to 1 yard!
By the way....this is the reticule I'm using with my 3-12x44 Optisan Viper scope......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/192015/1421790388_83981187_ViperBox.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=65183)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
The mill dot and half mill dot slashes make it easy to aim between the first and second lower "dot". Here is the mill dot reticule of the cheap 4-16x40 Center Point scope I've used in the past........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1452014/1401107317_1723563508_centerpoint416x56mmaoscopewmildotreticle14.gif.jpeg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=50778)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Concerning the H&N FTT pellets, a lot of shooters like them but those from the 4.52mm size tins I bought were rather inaccurate (quite a few fliers) from my .177 R9 due to the very insistent fit in the leade. I spent a week individually measuring the head sizes of 2500 FTTs and I found that the heads varied as much as .005 in diameter. I also had one tin of 4.50mm FTTs and some pellets in the 4.52mm tin were SMALLER than those in the 4.50mm tin and some in the 4.50mm tin were larger than some in the 4.52 tin. LOL....made me wonder why H&N even put them in differently labelled tins!
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2052014/1406292704_660358918_SortedHNPelletTins.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=54190)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
For a couple decades I shot only lubed 7.9 grain Crosman premiers from the 1250 count die lot marked and dated boxes, however the last two cases I bought had excess parting compound on them which necessitated washing prior to lubing since the hard lead allot CPs tended to foul the bore quickly unless lubed. After the last two "dirty cases" were used up I started searching for a pellet that didn't need to be washed yet still gave the same accuracy from my R9 as the CPL. The first pellet alternative tried was the H&N FTT which didn't pan out too well, then I tried the 4.52mm JSB Exact pellets and I've been using them ever since!
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nced - many thanks for taking the time and explaining your logic!
I'll be looking at an R9 in the near future and was wondering what the air-rifle 'prep' is for the R9's? Normally, I carefully clean the bbl., torque tune the action screws, adjust the trigger pull wt./travel/etc., carefully mount the scope, Loctite all action screws, then do a series of pellet tests and determine rifle 'hold sensitivity' of these springers.
Anything important I'm missing when I break in a new R9???
Art
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OK Art, now you should be all set to get that R9 ! Give Kevin or Craig a call at Straight Shooters. They have them in stock, both with and without a scope. You will have a good experience, I'm sure. ;D
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Late to the party as usual, and with Ed's input there's not much to add since he's done literally decades of research with R9's.
Like most responders, I'd go R9 (I don't use iron sights and prefer the stock of the R9 over the HW95) in .177. .20 cal is something I see myself getting down the road, as I honestly think it's the perfect marriage of the .177 and the .22, but for now, at least, I'm all .177. Chances are that a .20cal HW/Beeman is going to like JSB or H&N pellets, so once you figure out which variety it likes the limited pellet selection wouldn't be a factor as those two brands are readily available online.
Back to your .177 R9...once you get it, if you're comfortable breaking it down, I'd recommend a quick lube tune to get rid of any over or under lubing from the factory. While you're in there, check for any sharp edges (cocking slot, compression tube entry, etc) and hone those down. Relube with Maccari products or full-on Krytox, and you're starting with a smooth, non-dieseling, no-twang springer.
Or you can just give the bore a good scrubbing and shoot her till the dieseling and twanging disappear....your choice. The R9 is a superb platform to build from; it'll do anything you ask of it, and if taken care of will last a lifetime. Great, great rifles.
Here's a link to some incredible customized R9's for you to drool over:
http://www.springgunning.com/Gallery.html (http://www.springgunning.com/Gallery.html)
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nced - many thanks for taking the time and explaining your logic!
I'll be looking at an R9 in the near future and was wondering what the air-rifle 'prep' is for the R9's? Normally, I carefully clean the bbl., torque tune the action screws, adjust the trigger pull wt./travel/etc., carefully mount the scope, Loctite all action screws, then do a series of pellet tests and determine rifle 'hold sensitivity' of these springers.
Anything important I'm missing when I break in a new R9???
Art
So far I haven't had a .177 R9 that wouldn't shoot the 7.9 grain CPLs accurately, however the one I currently own will shoot the 8.4 grain JSB Exact as accurately as a CPL, plus they don't need washing and lubing like the last two cases of CPLs I bought.
I do have to mention however that the R9 I currently own was a rather "rough cocker" straight from the box and it twanged like a West Virginia screen door in a wind storm. The twang didn't seem to affect the accuracy too much....the noise was simply very annoying to me when shot. Now, after 10s of thousands of shots, the gun cocks smoothly and with a nced home turned fitted guide there is absolutely no twang or vibration! The factory R9 spring guide fit to the spring is real loose so they twang when shot due to the oscillation of un-dampened spring coils. As mentioned.......I haven't found that the twang affects the accuracy much (if at all) but it is really annoying to me! I do know that there are a couple folk on the GTA that have shot my R9 so perhaps they can vouch for the shot cycle.
It seems that part of the "sales pitch" for the current crop of springers from most vendors is "1000 fps". Well....the R9 is "rated" at 935fps but I haven't owned a R9 that lived up to that billing with "normal weight pellets". That's just fine with me because I deliberately detune my R9s to shoot at 13 1/2ish fpe (8.4 grain JSB Exact at 850fps) because the shot cycle is really nice at the lower power and the gun isn't excessively hold sensitive. That's just my personal preference and I'm not advising you to mess with the power level till you have some R9 "shootin' time" under your belt.
One thing I do have to mention is to check the barrel pivot tension when you get the gun! EVERY R9 that I've bought over the years has had a much too tight (IMHO) barrel pivot tension adjustment! An excessively tight barrel pivot tension will tend to gall the thin barrel pivot shims if not properly lubed and cause rather quick seating on the shims even when properly lubed. Years ago Beeman used to give advice to adjust the barrel pivot tension tight enough so the cocked barrel would just HOLD at any position in the pivot arc. Well....I personally believe that this is too tight and I adjust my barrel pivot tension till the cocked barrel will just FALL from any position in the pivot arc. The poi WILL be affected by changes in the barrel pivot tension and the looser setting I use maintains the pivot tension over a longer period of time.
None of the R9s I've owned "liked" to be bench rested on solid shot bags (they shot "patterns" at 30 yards), however if I put my hand between the stock forearm and bag making sure that the butt of the stock is on my shoulder without touching the bench I could shoot some pretty good groups. You obviously are a pretty good "springer shooter" so all this "gun support advice" probably isn't very helpful.
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Well, I took a long hike to the only Beeman distributor in the area where he had a .20 cal R9 to look at. To make a long story short, I spent a bit of time reviewing the rifle, and came away with the impression that it certainly is worth the asking ~ $550 for the R9 in .177 in the Elite package with scope. The bluing wasn't deep but still nice, the stock seemed to be make out of beech??? and had good CNC'd checkering, etc. etc. Breaking the bbl. open was certainly smoother and with significant better precision feel than the Ruger AH or Stoeger X20S I'm learning on... Now, to my question:
How in the world do you put the R9 back on 'safety' once you've taken it off to take a shot and then don't take that shot??? The only way I could put the R9 back on 'safety' was to break open the bbl. again, hold onto the bbl. .... pull the trigger... and decompress the spring which seems to reset the rifle back on safety! Is this Newbie missing something very obvious??? :-[
nced - I too noticed the bbl. pivot tension was very light but noticed some 'galling' on the block holding the bbl. I'll need to follow your advice on extremely light tension adjustment on that pivot assembly. Also, could you let me in on what you set the 'torque settings' for the action screws to start with?
Art :D
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How in the world do you put the R9 back on 'safety' once you've taken it off to take a shot and then don't take that shot??? The only way I could put the R9 back on 'safety' was to break open the bbl. again, hold onto the bbl. .... pull the trigger... and decompress the spring which seems to reset the rifle back on safety! Is this Newbie missing something very obvious??? :-[
Once the safety is off it cannot be reset. It is possible to get a resettable safety for the Rekord trigger system. The question is from where?
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Now, to my question:
How in the world do you put the R9 back on 'safety' once you've taken it off to take a shot and then don't take that shot??? The only way I could put the R9 back on 'safety' was to break open the bbl. again, hold onto the bbl. .... pull the trigger... and decompress the spring which seems to reset the rifle back on safety! Is this Newbie missing something very obvious??? :-[
You should be able to just re-cock the barrel and it resets. Don't think you should have to pull the trigger in between. I'll check my R7 tonight, but I'm certain that's how it is.
Seems the way you did it the safety might be on, but the gun is not ready to shoot.
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Fully re-cock barrel and the safety will re-engage or do exactly what you did and unlock the gun. Doesn't get much safer than that. I love the option, very usefull.
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Well, I took a long hike to the only Beeman distributor in the area where he had a .20 cal R9 to look at. To make a long story short, I spent a bit of time reviewing the rifle, and came away with the impression that it certainly is worth the asking ~ $550 for the R9 in .177 in the Elite package with scope. The bluing wasn't deep but still nice, the stock seemed to be make out of beech??? and had good CNC'd checkering, etc. etc. Breaking the bbl. open was certainly smoother and with significant better precision feel than the Ruger AH or Stoeger X20S I'm learning on... Now, to my question:
How in the world do you put the R9 back on 'safety' once you've taken it off to take a shot and then don't take that shot??? The only way I could put the R9 back on 'safety' was to break open the bbl. again, hold onto the bbl. .... pull the trigger... and decompress the spring which seems to reset the rifle back on safety! Is this Newbie missing something very obvious??? :-[
nced - I too noticed the bbl. pivot tension was very light but noticed some 'galling' on the block holding the bbl. I'll need to follow your advice on extremely light tension adjustment on that pivot assembly. Also, could you let me in on what you set the 'torque settings' for the action screws to start with?
Art :D
A few comments:
$550 for the R9 in .177 in the Elite package with scope.
They may have changed but I know a couple that bought the "package"and it came with a Bushnell Banner scope and they did have "scope issues" in a relatively short time. A "plain" Beeman R9 can be had for about $470! Perhaps I'm "off base" but I personally never liked the "package deals"!
The bluing wasn't deep but still nice, the stock seemed to be make out of beech?
While the R9 bluing isn't the extremely deep polished bluing of the English Webleys I still think that it's pretty good.
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/132015/1421272167_1585156785_BrassDriftDelrinHammer2.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=64913)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/622015/1425472181_378583047_R9StockForks1.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=67645)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2492014/1410090536_474270581_4R9Tubes1.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=57278)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Yep....the stock is beech and some are "prettier" than others. Years ago Beeman used to offer a couple "select options" like "select condition stock", "scope barrel angle" and "select group". LOL.....each of these options cost an extra $1. ;D
How in the world do you put the R9 back on 'safety' once you've taken it off to take a shot and then don't take that shot???
Easiest is to simply shoot the two cent pellet! :o Just yankin' yer chain! All you do is recock the gun which resets the safety, no need to de-cock the gun. By the way....don't lose a grip on the barrel if de-cocking.....if the barrel slips it WILL bend the barrel or split the stock...or both! Better to simply shoot off a pellet than de-cocking the gun which leaves a pellet in the breech.
I'll need to follow your advice on extremely light tension adjustment on that pivot assembly. Also, could you let me in on what you set the 'torque settings' for the action screws to start with?
Actually, I don't use an "extremely light tension", I use a tension so the the cocked barrel JUST FALLS from any position in the arc. The pivot bolt of the R9 is a M7x.75 size (a real oddball) and there is a spring lock washer under the head of the bolt and another spring lock washer under the lock nut on the opposite side to keep the nut in place. Even with the "cocked barrel just falls" tension there is still considerable side tension on the barrel pivot block. Perhaps the "galling" you're seeing is bluing that was worn away by rubbing one of the stock forearm "forks". Wood will twist/warp a bit with atmospheric changes in humidity so this is a rather common issue with the extended stock configuration of the R9 stock. The plain HW95 has the old design stock without the extended forearm so the wear on the bluing isn't an issue. Actually, this wear happened to my R9 but really not a biggie other than an annoyance. I simply cold blued the worn pivot block and sanded away a bit of wood from the offending stock forearm fork. This pic shows a bit of the scraping I have on my R9 before the "stock fork sanding".......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/622015/1425472184_648313719_R9StockForks2.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=67646)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Here is a pic of the plain HW95 showing the old design stock......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3452014/1418426671_719277088_HW95.png) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=63447)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Personally, I prefer the old stock design and when I turn my walnut slabs into a new stock I'll be doing the "old style".......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/3252014/1416622658_268649990_stocksR9.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=62306)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Also, could you let me in on what you set the 'torque settings' for the action screws to start with?
The HW stock screw torque specs per HW in Germany..........
Front stock screws = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb, and Large trigger guard screw = 5 Nm is equal to 44.3 in-lb, and rear trigger guard screw = 2.5 Nm is equal approximately to 22.1 in-lb.
I do have to mention that you have good instincts concerning screw torque because MANY (including myself) have over torqued stock mounting screws which leads to wood fiber crushing. Also, for the small rear trigger guard screw that threads directly into the trigger group i only use 15 in-lb torque and a bit of blue LocTite.
For the barrel pivot tension I really don't think that an actual torque spec is useful, simply "adjust by feel".
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Again, many thanks Ed (and everyone else) on helping this 'Newbie' to airguns get a handle on these rifles... Great info. and wonderful Forum! I'll be purchasing the R9 in .177 format soon and we'll see if I can get the 'consistent' precision I want out of it... hopefully I can!
I know this is an airgun site, but FWIW, I'm a stickler on accurate rifles, and one of my most prized rimfires is a mint 40X Sporter/Repeater that I do use for practice/enjoyment. It's a true 0's rifle @ 25yds., < 0.25" CTC @ 50 yds. and an honest 0.6" CTC rifle at 100yds. (conditions permitting).
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23643107/397157750.jpg)
100 yds. (Lapua Midas+) sub-optimal conditions:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23695283/398030764.jpg)
Art :D
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I also would like to say THANKS to Ed for his contributions. As a new owner of an R9 I benefit from his years of accumulated wisdom with this rifle which he so willingly shares with us. ;D
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Again, many thanks Ed (and everyone else) on helping this 'Newbie' to airguns get a handle on these rifles... Great info. and wonderful Forum! I'll be purchasing the R9 in .177 format soon and we'll see if I can get the 'consistent' precision I want out of it... hopefully I can!
I know this is an airgun site, but FWIW, I'm a stickler on accurate rifles, and one of my most prized rimfires is a mint 40X Sporter/Repeater that I do use for practice/enjoyment. It's a true 0's rifle @ 25yds., < 0.25" CTC @ 50 yds. and an honest 0.6" CTC rifle at 100yds. (conditions permitting).
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23643107/397157750.jpg)
100 yds. (Lapua Midas+) sub-optimal conditions:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23695283/398030764.jpg)
Art :D
A bit of caution when trying to make an analogy between an airgun shooting pellets and a rimfire shooting bullets! For one thing, the BC of a 40 grain rimfire bullet ranges from about .145 to .190. On the other hand the BC of pellets is AWFUL! For the 8.44 JSB and AA's and they can range from an lowly 0.018 to a high 0.038 depending on the individual barrel and velocity being shot.
This means that the pellets get blown around a lot so it's much harder to shoot pellets accurately than bullets. Shooting a springer (especially) can involve a rather steep "learning curve" (well, for me it does) and if a shooter can shoot a recoiling piston gun accurately, he can shoot most any powder burner accurately!
Funny thing is that since I got into adult airguns a few decades ago I don't believe I've shot my rimfire two dozen times. I found that my .177 R9 is a better "squirrel getter" than my rimfire ever was and I really prefer "boomless" shooting anyway. I've hunted squirrels with my brother at my uncles farm and we both prefer our R9s. I wasn't with him but my brother took a limit of squirrels from one walnut three at the farm. He was shooting from the edge of the woods and the walnut tree was 30 yards in the mowed field. As the story was told me the squirrels were sniped one at a time from the tree and left where they fell till they were gathered together after the shooting. My brother mentioned that is was a bit funny to see the very last squirrel realize the he was the only one left still cutting the nuts, then it scrambled down the tree and "high tailed" it to the woods!
Normally, after shooting a squirrel it would be field dressed on the spot to be put in a large zip loc bag with ice that's carried for that purpose. That cools the squirrels quickly, plus leaves the "fleas and critters" in the woods instead of on the body. When hunting with my brother and we were quietly field dressing a couple squirrels I've watched my brother snipe a squirrel that came out of hiding while a squirrel was being field dressed.
When I lived in WV and hunted with my brother we would normally stalk about 50 yards apart. When I heard the shot of my brother's R9 at that distance it sounded like stepping on a twig and snapping it. LOL....the sound of the pellet cracking the squirrel noggin sounded louder than the R9 being shot!
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When reading the post from Ed about "barrel pivot tension", I decided to check my R9 to compare it to his description. Well it was much tighter than Ed likes it to be, so I took a minute and adjusted mine to be more like his description, Also checked the rest of the screws on the stock and trigger guard and was shocked to find them all very loose. So I cleaned the threads with alcohol and put a bit of blue locktite on them and snugged them up. Seems like I just heard a song a few days ago about "You've Got to Check Your Screws", LOL. Hopefully I will get to do some shooting Wed. if the weather cooperates. ;D
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Good post everyone! Some very good reading here. Thanks for sharing.
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Please bear with me on a few other questions gentlemen ... :-[ ... on the R9, I seem to be leaning towards a good/solid 1-piece mount/ring setup vs. standard 2-piece.
1) Am I going in the right direction on mount selection (1-piece)? Also, any recommendations as to mount and ring height?
2) I heard you have to be careful torqueing down the R9 mount screws as to not 'compress' the thin-walled spring tube... Is this true?
3) Finally, what torque range do you use on the mount screws for your R9's?
Hope you guys can hang with me asking all these questions! I'm lookin' forward to getting the R9, but I'm a person who tries to do his homework ahead of time...
Art
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A one-piece mount is the better choice on a springer. Most likely a medium height mount will be appropriate -- unless you are mounting a scope with a wide objective lens. I don't think you need to worry about compressing the compression tube or receiver of the R9. You would strip the aluminum screws on the mount before compressing the steel tube. The recommended torque for the horizontal screws on the scope mount is 35 inch pounds. Be careful with the scope ring screws as you don't want to over-tighten them and risk compressing the scope tube.
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Please bear with me on a few other questions gentlemen ( :-[) ... on the R9, I seem to be leaning towards a good/solid 1-piece mount/ring setup vs. standard 2-piece. any recommendations as to ring height
1) Am I going in the right direction on mount selection (1-piece)? Also, any recommendations as to ring height?
2) I heard you have to be careful torqueing down the R9 mount screws as to not 'compress' the thin-walled spring tube... Is this true?
3) Finally, what torque range do you use on the mount screws for your R9's?
Hope you guys can hang with me asking all these questions! I'm lookin' forward to getting the R9, but I'm a person who tries to do his homework ahead of time...
Art
Am I going in the right direction on mount selection (1-piece)?
I like a one piece scope mount but I'm currently using a cheap high two piece 30mm UTG mount with my 3-12x44 Optisan Viper scope and it's working great.
any recommendations as to ring height
As with most things airgun....it all depends on it's use. I like a scope as close to the receiver as possible, however a higher scope mount is more "agreeable" with the further range targets due to the trajectory of the pellet, however the higher mount causes the pellet to rise to the line of sight a greater amount per yard. This make close range target holdover accuracy more precise. Also, the scope chosen will also dictate the height of the rings being used since the scope bell still needs to clear the receiver, perhaps even needing space for the lens cover.
I heard you have to be careful torqueing down the R9 mount screws as to not 'compress' the thin-walled spring tube... Is this true?
LOL....I read that claim decades ago and still don't believe it! I've torqued "clamp plate style" and "BKL auto-centering style" mounts to destruction and never had any R9 receiver issues! Both the UTG "clamp plate style" mounts and the "BKL auto centering style" mounts specify 35 in-lbs MAX of base screw torque and this amount of torque won't deform a R9 receiver at all!......
Finally, what torque range do you use on the mount screws for your R9's
for the UTG style mounts with 4 screws per ring cap I follow this.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/232015/1422140468_8313716_UTG30mmMedRingsTorqueSpec.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=65322)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I've found however that using the 2 piece "BKL auto centering mount" with two narrow top straps per ring and the relatively large #8-32 screws on each end of the strap......15 in-lbs of screw torque can deform a scope tube. Here are a couple pics of BKL "deformation".
10 in-lbs torque with my 13fpe R9 caused the scope to slip in the 1" BKL 2 piece mount......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1292014/1399735417_147459583_10InLbsScopeCreep.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=49989)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
However 15 in-lbs of screw torque with the BKL two piece mount deformed the scope tubes..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2332014/1408730523_1785244710_PinchedScopeTube.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56137)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
You can see the tell-tale "double strap" marks. Here is my cheap Center Point scope that's currently mounted in a UTG one piece mount on a Remington Express.
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/902015/1427850447_1779164345_LeapersInUTG.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=68885)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
You can see the "tell tale" damage of a previous installation in BKL two piece mounts with the ring caps torqued to 15 in-lbs.
Anywhoo......if I use a BKL mount I always line the rings with cloth electrical friction tape and only torque the top strap screws to 12 in-lbs. If I'm using UTG type mounts they already have "tape" in the rings so I also use 12 in-lbs torque for those caps. Here's a pic of some UTG mounts on an R9 receiver tube.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/242015/1422217965_243705589_AccushotMount.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=65372)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
As you can see....where the "claws" of the clamp plates are grabbing the scope dovetails the receiver metal is practically a solid bridge. Would take a LOT of pressure to deform the receiver.
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Ed (and everyone else!) - thanks so much for taking the time for sharing your experiences and knowledge! It truly is appreciated with the detailed/informed responses!
Again, I've only got into air rifles (Stoeger X20S and Ruger A H) in the last 3 months learned quite a bit about 'springers', scope creep, cheap combo package mounts, pellet selection, ambient temp. issues with regards to 'consistency' in sub-zero winter conditions., scope (Bushnell Banner) being destroyed in 700 rnds. on the Ruger A H, 'artillery hold' technique, etc. etc. I didn't get frustrated at all, but looked at these issues as a challenge to correct in future purchases/knowledge...
With everyone's gracious help, this newbie is moving forward on the right path to acquiring a consistently accurate 'springer' that when I pick it up for some paper punching or field work, I have complete confidence in the equipment. That is my simple goal...
Art ;)
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I haven't read through all the responses but wanted to add one perspective. For the range and PBR "window" you are looking at shooting, you will be hard pressed to get even the lightest fastest .177 to cooperate. Getting the pellet to come up to range at 10 yards and then hold flat for 25 additional yards wont even happen with a very low mounted 33mm scope or factory HW95 iron sights shooting the FTT. The line of sight will sit too high above the bore and it wont parallel the path of the bore that tight for that long that close in in all likelihood (could have a barrel bend that allows it I suppose).
For a frame of reference I have a 33mm Leupold efr mounted almost touching the tube and I can sight in to stay in a .25" window as close as 13.2 yards and it holds within that .25" window out to 30.7 yards (zero'ed @ 16 & 28 yards). Granted I am shooting a JSB heavy @ 830fps but if I plug in the FTT @ 913fps I actually move out to 14.1-32.8 yards (zero's @ 17 & 30). The adj. obj. on the bell of my scope does make it thicker and therefore sits about 1mm higher than it could, another scope could shave a slight amount off the difference (like .5mm, but that would be statistically irrelevant, barely adding much at all). That said, if the .177 can maybe barely do it, the .20 and .22 aren't going to come close to hitting those trajectories that close and holding that flat for that long.
I don't think most folks (perhaps even inside the industry) realize how much small game near range shooting is effected by sight height. Getting the projectile up to the line of sight at 10 yards is a very big task that most firearms cannot easily accommodate. Let alone providing a usably flat trajectory after that.
But if a fast .177 with reasonably low sights cannot do what needs done (in strict terms of trajectory), it is time to switch to rimfire.
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Thanks for your thoughtful response Pitchfire.
As you mentioned, my 'window' of 10 - 35yds. (for most of my field work in a dense forest) leads me to as 'flat' a trajectory as possible for the pellet. When I checked the BC on the .177 (and reviewed Ed's POI target for varying distances), I knew I would have to do a standard Hold over/under at calc'd distances.
Yesterday, I put an order in for a Beeman R9 (.177 format) and will mount an inexpensive Center Point 4-16X40 AO (UTG 1-piece mount) and use this setup for initial break-in in the rifle.
FWIW.....what started me off on all this was a 'Protected wildlife species' (Hairy Woodpecker) that was creating a mess of a newly remodeled cedar lake home... To make a long story short, I went through all the channels with my DNR Wildlife Services, collected all the damage (~$1,000) pics necessary, went through 4 levels of WS review and after 2 months I was thankfully granted a permit to 'take' the little booger. I know I'm nutz, but I wanted to do things right!
I couldn't use one of my .22LR Sporters do to the nature of the shot that needed to be taken with neighbors nearby, so I purchased the only air gun available (Stoeger X20S) from a local hdwe store and worked an entire day on trying to get the thing to sight in acceptable... Never could print 1" groups @ 20yds. with any consistency in sub-zero temps. All the while, the woodpecker was creating more $$$$ damage, and my wife is going crazy.
With my wife having a heart attack with the damage being created, I decided to setup to take the shot (kneeling) in 2 ft. of snow, sub-zero temps, 45 Deg. up angle at (~ 20yds.) in a snow storm that was going on and pick him off the cedar fascia at the top of the roof line (without putting another hole in the home!)...
'the little booger' was having a field day at the top of the roof peak facia, I set up on the left near the base of the large trees:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24203352/404204496.jpg)
Conditions at the time:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24203352/410717584.jpg)
One single LUCKY shot dropped the little booger 'cleanly'. I vowed at that point I'd get a decent air rifle, and that it would be up to the task going forward...
Hopefully, this new R9 will meet my needs.
That's the honest story that leads me to where I'm at with air guns.
Art ;)
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An excellent choice.
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Thanks for your thoughtful response Pitchfire.
As you mentioned, my 'window' of 10 - 35yds. (for most of my field work in a dense forest) leads me to as 'flat' a trajectory as possible for the pellet. When I checked the BC on the .177 (and reviewed Ed's POI target for varying distances), I knew I would have to do a standard Hold over/under at calc'd distances.
Yesterday, I put an order in for a Beeman R9 (.177 format) and will mount an inexpensive Center Point 4-16X40 AO (UTG 1-piece mount) and use this setup for initial break-in in the rifle.
FWIW.....what started me off on all this was a 'Protected wildlife species' (Hairy Woodpecker) that was creating a mess of a newly remodeled cedar lake home... To make a long story short, I went through all the channels with my DNR Wildlife Services, collected all the damage (~$1,000) pics necessary, went through 4 levels of WS review and after 2 months I was thankfully granted a permit to 'take' the little bugger. I know I'm nutz, but I wanted to do things right!
I couldn't use one of my .22LR Sporters do to the nature of the shot that needed to be taken with neighbors nearby, so I purchased the only air gun available (Stoeger X20S) from a local hdwe store and worked an entire day on trying to get the thing to sight in acceptable... Never could print 1" groups @ 20yds. with any consistency in sub-zero temps. All the while, the woodpecker was creating more $$$$ damage, and my wife is going crazy.
With my wife having a heart attack with the damage being created, I decided to setup to take the shot (kneeling) in 2 ft. of snow, sub-zero temps, 45 Deg. up angle at (~ 20yds.) in a snow storm that was going on and pick him off the cedar fascia at the top of the roof line (without putting another hole in the home)...
'the little bugger' was having a field day at the top of the roof peak facia, I set up on the left near the base of the large trees:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24203352/404204496.jpg)
Conditions at the time:
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/24203352/410717584.jpg)
One single LUCKY shot dropped the little bugger 'cleanly'. I vowed at that point I'd get a decent air rifle after that would be up to the task from that time forward...
Hopefully, this new R9 will meet my needs.
That's the honest story that leads me to where I'm at with air guns.
Art ;)
Great choice. There are 5 rifles I would consider TX200, R1, R11 (same as an R9 but nicer stock & shroud), FWB Sport, & HW97K. Of all the rifles my R11 is the most accurate, & after 2000 shots she is almost like a tuned rifle.
Good Luck & Happy Hunting.
When I make it to the Happy Hunting Grounds I want another R11. :)
Edit: it is Booger not bugger LOL
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Great story Art!!
Excellent choice in caliber and rifle!!!
I was out with my 98......R9 action in different dress....doing some target shooting when a not so smart fly landed on my target.
Loaded the rifle with JSB 8.4 and literally took his wings off!!
You are going to love this rifle bro!!
Pellets that mine likes.....JSB 7.87, 8.4 and 10.3 all in 4.52 head....H&N Field Target Trophy in 4.51 head.
CPLs and Barracuda Match.
Good luck and have fun!!
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I've re-thought my position concerning using the UTG one piece mount vs the BKL one piece mount if using a relatively heavy 30mm tube scope on my recoiling R9.
I noticed that the stop pin on the UTG one piece mount had deformed the stop pin hole in the R9 receiver actually pushing the metal at the rear edge of the stop pin hole INWARD to the inside of the receiver! LOL....I had to pry the end plug from the receiver since the raised bulge was retaining it a bit! After prying the end plug out the protruding upset metal had to be filed just so I could remove the spring kit! I'm thinking that the heavy 30mm tube Viper scope caused this even though the (3) base screws were torqued to the recommended max torque of 35 in/lbs.
Even though I prefer the wider top strap design of the UTG mounts with 4 smaller screws per strap, I do believe that the (6) base screws of the BKL one piece mount without a stop pin may be of benefit for heavy scope mounting so the UTG one piece mount was replaced with the BKL one piece mount......and after the switch I had to set up the scope wheel all over again! :o
Viper scope in one piece BKL high 30mm mount.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1032015/1429041854_63764745_ViperR9.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69327)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Anywhoo.....I filed away the deformed metal inside the receiver tube just so I could remove the spring kit, then the receiver tube was taken to my work bench for a re-hone and straightening using the oiled wet-or-dry on my PVC mandrel. After relubing and reassembling all is shooting well again and the wider top straps (relative to the two piece BKL mounts) seem to be holding the Viper with 15 in/lbs torque on the two top strap screws without damaging the scope tube! LOL....after the test I still lined the rings with electrical friction tape "just in case"! ::)
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Ed
Is there anything that you HAVEN'T fiddled with on an R9 - HW95?
There should be an official airgun forum badge made for you, 'I'm that R9 guy' or the likes......
;D
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Maybe.......The R9 Answer Man???
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Gentlemen... If you were to purchase just one mount for the R9 which one would you go for???
I have new UTG 1-piece mounts in Med. and High profile but Ed's scope and mount 'creep' might just sway me towards the Beeman 5040 (Med.) and Beeman 5036 (High) coupled with a Beeman BN-5092 Scope Stop...
I recently mounted the UTG 1-piece on the X20S but also found it deformed the stop pin hole in the recvr. soooooo, I don't want this to happen on the R9. Seems the stop pins in the Beeman mounts are larger dia. and displace the energy over a larger surface area IMHO.
Any suggestions?
Art
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Hay Art!
I have BKL double strap rings holding a large Sidewinder on my 98 and nothing has budged, with no stop pin, after well over 50,000 rounds.
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I use a BLK one piece adjustable mount. Left to right usually lines up pretty close on instalation, and with the up & down screw you can get it real close. (I also use a scope level) Just tighten the base to 35# PI and the rings to 15# PI and you are all set.
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Ed
Is there anything that you HAVEN'T fiddled with on an R9 - HW95?
There should be an official airgun forum badge made for you, 'I'm that R9 guy' or the likes......
;D
LOL....not much for sure!
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Gentlemen... If you were to purchase just one mount for the R9 which one would you go for???
I have new UTG 1-piece mounts in Med. and High profile but Ed's scope and mount 'creep' might just sway me towards the Beeman 5040 (Med.) and Beeman 5036 (High) coupled with a Beeman BN-5092 Scope Stop...
I recently mounted the UTG 1-piece on the X20S but also found it deformed the stop pin hole in the recvr. soooooo, I don't want this to happen on the R9. Seems the stop pins in the Beeman mounts are larger dia. and displace the energy over a larger surface area IMHO.
Any suggestions?
Art
Art....I believe that the issue was with the UTG stop pin instead of the mount itself when using it with a heavy scope because I had no issues with this mount and the Vortex Diamondback I used prior to the Viper. While I've had stop pin hole deformation in the past using lighter scopes, this is the first time the deformation extended INSIDE the receiver tube. Here are a couple pics........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2292014/1408383284_1393876611_DeformedR9StopPinHoles.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=55949)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Since you mentioned a Beeman mount......years ago I had an old Japanese made 3-12x40 Bushnell Trophy mounted to my R10 using a Beeman two piece mount. During a field target match I was missing more targets than usual and then noticed that the rear mount had literally walked off the scope rail. The issue was that the Beeman mount used a roll pin for a stop pin and from the factory the pin projection was insufficient literally "machining" away the scope rail metal behind the stop pin hole. Here is a pic of that scope rail showing the groove caused by the sliding mount......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2682014/1411731979_819351072_R10scoperail1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=58237)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Anywhoo......seems that the one piece BKL mount is holding well using 35 in/lbs torque on the base screws and the scope seems to be holding with 15in/lbs torque on the top strap screws.......I'll know better after shooting a few more tins of pellets.
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Ed - I had the same issue using the UTG 1-piece on the X20S a few weeks back. The small dia. stop pin on the UTG mount dug into the rear of the recvr. (same as in your pics!) and had the dreaded mount 'creep' on the recvr.
Based on your experience (and the excellent info. from everyone) on this Forum, I went to PA this morning and talked to the techs. at length, and they recommended the Beeman #5039 1-piece adjustable (elevation/windage)... I coughed up the $$$$ for it (based on analysis) and hope it's the only mount I'll ever need for the R9 coming in. It seems the amount of bbl. 'droop' is variable, and as such, the 5039 was the best alternative to correct this possible issue if it exists on the ex. I have coming in. I'll also add the Beeman Scope Stop clamp if needed. If all this fails, then I'll go with the BKL as my alternative! Hope it doesn't get to that state.
***Also got some 'Frog Lube' on order to clean the bbl. and now just waiting for the call from my dealer.
I'm ready to put this little lady through a series of tests during the 'break-in'. I'm stoked !!!
Art :D
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x2 on that joe. and art, my .22 is a dream
Hello Art and welcome!!
I have a 98, same action different furniture, in 177.
I chose 177 for that power plant for the trajectory, pellet choice and I mostly target shoot at 40 yards out to 75.
The rifle is just amazing!
The difference will be seen and felt the second you pick it up.
Extremely well made and built like a tank!
I had a Vortek HO kit installed with a tune and you just can't ask for more!
The .20 would be great if there was a better selection of pellets.
The .22 might suit you well also because of the shorter distances you'll be shooting.
Whichever cal you choose this rifle will have a silly grin stuck on your face!!
Good luck and let us know what you decide!
Joe
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Great thread!
Regarding recommendations for mounts, here's what I would suggest:
1. BKL dovetail to weaver riser and Burris Signature Zee rings
2. BKL double-strap rings
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This 'newbie' (to air rifles) says again... 'Many Thanks' for the excellent advice in this Forum!
Just found out that the .177 R9 has arrived at my dealer, and PA is shipping me the Beeman #5039 (Adjustable Windage & Elevation compensation) mount by this weekend.
I've got my 'Frog Lube', CDI torque wrench, EEZOX, Renaissance Wax, etc. and a nice array of pellet selection ready to go after I mount the inexpensive Center Point 4-16X40 AO scope for an initial break-in and shakedown. Sitting in the closet is a Leupold VX-2 4-12X40 AO (Fine Duplex) if I find the R9 is giving me the 'consistency' I need...
This will be a fun weekend coming up!
Art ;)
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Great thread!
Regarding recommendations for mounts, here's what I would suggest:
1. BKL dovetail to weaver riser and Burris Signature Zee rings
2. BKL double-strap rings
I had issues with the BKL "double straps" damaging scope tubes when the top strap screw torque was 15 in/lbs but the scope slipped at 10 in/lbs.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1292014/1399735417_147459583_10InLbsScopeCreep.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=49989)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
This pic shows the distinctive "double dent" from using 15 in/lbs torque with the BKL double strap.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2332014/1408730523_1785244710_PinchedScopeTube.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56137)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
LOL....perhaps this is why BKL invented this monster.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/572015/1425064025_758576241_BKL1inTripleStrapHighDTSingle_BKLS264HMB_lg.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=67423)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
LOL.....scope should hold with lower than normal ring screw torque and eight base screws for two mounts should definitely hold the receiver dovetails!
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Ed- that's why I went with the Beeman #5039 1-piece mount! I talked to three PA reps (who have R9's) and they've had experiences with the UTG 1-piece, and the BKL mounts 'walking' at times. They've discussed this with UTG and BKL and haven't got a solid answer as to the issues they've experienced. That's why I went with the Beeman 5039.
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23135201/411121991.jpg)
Granted, I know they're many happy customers with the UTG and BKL setups... but with the info. I was getting back from PA, they said go with the Beeman. Soooooo, we'll test the #5039 out soon. I've never had issues with my RF or CF mounts/rings setups so I'm keepin' my fingers crossed on this.
FWIW, I also start my incremented torque & cross-bolt pattern (just like X-bolting an engine head to the block) to minimize any issues with mount/scope rail contact. I also, X-bolt the straps in incremental fashion until I get to my needed torque ratings... To me, this ensures as snug a contact as possible with the minor machining variations I've noticed.
Art
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It's hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like the Beeman #5039 has a Scope Turret clearance issue like the BKL? Why can't manufacturers give us more clearance for Scope Turrets?
E
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Good eye, Eric. I ran into that exact problem with a BKL 1-piece mount. In my opinion that's a huge design flaw. Not saying the Beeman mount has this issue (although from the pic it looks like it does), but the BKL didn't have the turret clearance to mount a pretty "typical" scope (Legend 5-15x40).
Ed, great post and the pics show it all. Happy to say I haven't seen that yet on mine, but now you've got me worried.
So thanks for that, lol. ;D
To be honest, my favorite is by far the Weaver adapter with Burris Signature Zee's. No scope damage, and they hold like glue. If only the Signature Zee came in "low". >:(
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Ed- that's why I went with the Beeman #5039 1-piece mount! I talked to three PA reps (who have R9's) and they've had experiences with the UTG 1-piece, and the BKL mounts 'walking' at times. They've discussed this with UTG and BKL and haven't got a solid answer as to the issues they've experienced. That's why I went with the Beeman 5039.
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23135201/411121991.jpg)
Granted, I know they're many happy customers with the UTG and BKL setups... but with the info. I was getting back from PA, they said go with the Beeman. Soooooo, we'll test the #5039 out soon. I've never had issues with my RF or CF mounts/rings setups so I'm keepin' my fingers crossed on this.
FWIW, I also start my incremented torque & cross-bolt pattern (just like X-bolting an engine head to the block) to minimize any issues with mount/scope rail contact. I also, X-bolt the straps in incremental fashion until I get to my needed torque ratings... To me, this ensures as snug a contact as possible with the minor machining variations I've noticed.
Art
The Beeman one piece mount also has a rather small diameter stop pin, however the Beeman (rebadged Sports Match) stop pin isn't a threaded screw but a straight sided roll pin. To adjust the projection of the Beeman mount stop pin you have to tap on the pin using a hammer and punch if the projection isn't adequate! Here is what I did to "improve" my Beeman one piece mount. As posted previously, here is a pic of my R10 scope rail that was damaged by a Beeman one piece mount that had insufficient projection from the factory..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2682014/1411731979_819351072_R10scoperail1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=58237)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Anywhoo.....while not an adjustable mount, does this mount look familiar?
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2422014/1409521292_1290351672_VortexInOnePieceMount.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56717)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Here is a pic of the type of stop pin used in my Beeman one piece mount.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1062015/1429300088_2143142389_RollPin.jpeg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69454)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I ended up removing the stop pin, drilling and tapping the hole for a socket head screw with a modified head to better fit the receiver stop pin hole.....
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2192014/1407537222_56779294_BeemanOnePieceMount_ScrewStopPin.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=55169)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I got rid of the Beeman mount a while back and was using the 30mm UTG till the "deformed stop pin hole episode" and then I started using my 30mm BKL one piece mount.
As far as the one piece BKLs slipping there is a "trick" that I found works very well. Before sliding the mount onto the dovetails alternately tighten the six base screws a little at a time to squeeze the clamp together just until the mount won't slide onto the receiver dovetail after the screws are loosened. Then use one of the base screws in a provided 'spreader hole" and tighten till the mount will just slide onto the receiver dovetail, then remove the screw from the "spreader hole" and if your R9 is like mine you won't be able to move the base even with all screws loose. Then torque the BKL base screws alternately a bit at a time till all are torqued to 35 in/lbs. When done this way the BKL mount doesn't move even with the 1 1/2 pound 3-12x44 Optisan Viper mounted!
The one piece BKL seems to be working well holding my Viper scope without damage and so far I like it!
Anywhoo...after you mount your scope and shoot it for a while it would be good if you report how it works for you. Personally, I would prefer a cheap $15 Leapers one piece mount with a separate scope stop!
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Why use an adapter and Zee rings? I use the Signature Rimfire/Airgun rings.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-airgun-rimfire-signature-1-rifle-scope-mount-rings.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-airgun-rimfire-signature-1-rifle-scope-mount-rings.html)
Medium will work for 32mm objective.
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Hi Paul, same issue with Nikon Prostaff Target EFR 3-9x40 AO:
http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Prostaff-Target-Precision-Reticle/dp/B007PXVR5C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429303506&sr=8-2&keywords=nikon+ao+scope (http://www.amazon.com/Nikon-Prostaff-Target-Precision-Reticle/dp/B007PXVR5C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1429303506&sr=8-2&keywords=nikon+ao+scope)
Bottoming out. Agree major design oversight.
The Turret on the Nikon is slightly larger than on the Vortex Diamondback, and requires shimming for the BKL-260:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/bkl-1-pc-mount-4-long-1-rings-3-8-or-11mm-dovetail-6-base-screws-007?a=2895 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/bkl-1-pc-mount-4-long-1-rings-3-8-or-11mm-dovetail-6-base-screws-007?a=2895)
Hi Ed, good to know the BKL mount is working with the 3-12x44 Optisan.
E
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Ed- that's why I went with the Beeman #5039 1-piece mount! I talked to three PA reps (who have R9's) and they've had experiences with the UTG 1-piece, and the BKL mounts 'walking' at times. They've discussed this with UTG and BKL and haven't got a solid answer as to the issues they've experienced. That's why I went with the Beeman 5039.
(http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2380/10489549/23135201/411121991.jpg)
Granted, I know they're many happy customers with the UTG and BKL setups... but with the info. I was getting back from PA, they said go with the Beeman. Soooooo, we'll test the #5039 out soon. I've never had issues with my RF or CF mounts/rings setups so I'm keepin' my fingers crossed on this.
FWIW, I also start my incremented torque & cross-bolt pattern (just like X-bolting an engine head to the block) to minimize any issues with mount/scope rail contact. I also, X-bolt the straps in incremental fashion until I get to my needed torque ratings... To me, this ensures as snug a contact as possible with the minor machining variations I've noticed.
Art
The Beeman one piece mount also has a rather small diameter stop pin, however the Beeman (rebadged Sports Match) stop pin isn't a threaded screw but a straight sided roll pin. To adjust the projection of the Beeman mount stop pin you have to tap on the pin using a hammer and punch if the projection isn't adequate! Here is what I did to "improve" my Beeman one piece mount. As posted previously, here is a pic of my R10 scope rail that was damaged by a Beeman one piece mount that had insufficient projection from the factory..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2682014/1411731979_819351072_R10scoperail1.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=58237)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Anywhoo.....while not an adjustable mount, does this mount look familiar?
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2422014/1409521292_1290351672_VortexInOnePieceMount.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=56717)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Here is a pic of the type of stop pin used in my Beeman one piece mount.......
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1062015/1429300088_2143142389_RollPin.jpeg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69454)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I ended up removing the stop pin, drilling and tapping the hole for a socket head screw with a modified head to better fit the receiver stop pin hole.....
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/2192014/1407537222_56779294_BeemanOnePieceMount_ScrewStopPin.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=55169)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
I got rid of the Beeman mount a while back and was using the 30mm UTG till the "deformed stop pin hole episode" and then I started using my 30mm BKL one piece mount.
As far as the one piece BKLs slipping there is a "trick" that I found works very well. Before sliding the mount onto the dovetails alternately tighten the six base screws a little at a time to squeeze the clamp together just until the mount won't slide onto the receiver dovetail after the screws are loosened. Then use one of the base screws in a provided 'spreader hole" and tighten till the mount will just slide onto the receiver dovetail, then remove the screw from the "spreader hole" and if your R9 is like mine you won't be able to move the base even with all screws loose. Then torque the BKL base screws alternately a bit at a time till all are torqued to 35 in/lbs. When done this way the BKL mount doesn't move even with the 1 1/2 pound 3-12x44 Optisan Viper mounted!
The one piece BKL seems to be working well holding my Viper scope without damage and so far I like it!
Anywhoo...after you mount your scope and shoot it for a while it would be good if you report how it works for you. Personally, I would prefer a cheap $15 Leapers one piece mount with a separate scope stop!
Ed- I just got the #5039 mount from PA this afternoon and after opening up the package I too noticed the small stop pin design. I like your idea of tapping the stop pin hole with a hex head screw that better fits the R9 recvr. holes...
Question: What hex head screw size did you use, and where did you get it from? I want to do your trick if I run into the mount 'walking' in the rails.
Next: I noticed that the Beeman #5039 packaging refers to the Sportmatch-uk.com website and found in the FAQ's that Sportsmatch recommends the side clamp screws can be torqued to: 4mm. thread dia. (30-42in. lbs.) and the 5mm. thread dia. (48-66in. lbs.)... Have you ever cranked the torque on your R9 mounts to that high level w/o seeing any recvr. deformation?
Honestly, I'll:
1) Thoroughly clean the mount and dovetail rails, mount the #5039 1-piece (35in. lbs.) and see if I get any mount 'walk'.
2) If I get mount 'walk', then I'll go your route with the tapped hex head screw that better fits the dia. of the R9 revcr. holes.
3) If #2 fails, I can order the Beeman scope stop and add another level of prevention of mount 'walking'...
4) Don't ask me about # 4 option... :o
Art
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Question: What hex head screw size did you use, and where did you get it from? I want to do your trick if I run into the mount 'walking' in the rails.
I used a #8-32 socket head cap screw, however I lathe turned the screw head so it was both shorter and smaller in diameter to fit the stop pin hole.....then I cold blued the screw.
Next: I noticed that the Beeman #5039 packaging refers to the Sportmatch-uk.com website and found in the FAQ's that Sportsmatch recommends the side clamp screws can be torqued to: 4mm. thread dia. (30-42in. lbs.) and the 5mm. thread dia. (48-66in. lbs.)... Have you ever cranked the torque on your R9 mounts to that high level w/o seeing any recvr. deformation?
WOW....seems like totally bogus torque values to me but they are indeed the torque specs according to SportsMatch! Before I learned the "preloading trick" for BKL mounts I torqued the base screws so tight that the mount base was deformed by the screw heads yet there was no issue with the R9 receiver tube.........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/1072015/1429327341_887034216_DeformBKL.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=69498)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
If you look at this pic you'll see that the "root" of the dovetail grooves have a "bridge" of steel between them so it would take a LOT of pressure to deform the receiver at this point........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/242015/1422217965_243705589_AccushotMount.JPG) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=65372)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
Still.....I've heard some claim that a strong mount can deform the R9 receiver, however I've never had it happen!
The 4mm screws will be for the top straps and I know from experience that you'll deform the scope tube well before the torque gets to 30-42 in/lbs! LOL....even Leupold recommends a max torque of 17 in/lbs for the top strap screws. From the Brownells page........
https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10816/guntechdetail/Torque_Specifications_for_Gunsmiths (https://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=10816/guntechdetail/Torque_Specifications_for_Gunsmiths)
The 5mm screws have to be for the base clamp screws and UTG recommends a max torque of 35 in/lbs same as the BKL mount which uses #8-32 screws..........
(http://www.snapagogo.com/uploads/source/232015/1422140468_8313716_UTG30mmMedRingsTorqueSpec.jpg) (http://www.snapagogo.com/photo.php?id=65322)Uploaded at Snapagogo.com (http://"http://www.snapagogo.com")
From the BKL site..........
http://www.bkltech.com/articles.asp?id=134 (http://www.bkltech.com/articles.asp?id=134)
"What is the recommended torque applied to the base screws?
Our recommendation is 35 in/lbs. If there is a problem with clamping after this much pressure has been applied then please contact us."
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FWIW, I've never had a BKL anything slip on me.
I tend to use their one piece mounts on springers with any sort of power, and the only problem with them is the aforementioned clearance between the mount body and the turret saddle of the scope.
A single layer of cloth friction tape and moderate (not ham fisted) torque on the cap screws leaves me with a few thousandths clearance on a Vortex Diamondback.
On a rail like the R-10 has, and the Diana rails, I am a firm believer in the RWS LockDown mount.
It uses two stop pins to arrest movement, and works a treat if modded a bit.
The two stop pins have a reduced diameter on their ends that fits the stop pin hole loosely, leading to walking and hole deformation like Ed pictured.
Take the pins and grind the reduced diameter section off of the end, so that when screwed down, the larger diameter threaded section of the screw protrudes into and engages the recess, and they stay put. Be sure to square the end of the screw to the body, so that it bottoms firmly in the recess.
I used this technique with LockDown mounts on both of my Diana 54s, and they haven't budged a millimeter.
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Why use an adapter and Zee rings? I use the Signature Rimfire/Airgun rings.
http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-airgun-rimfire-signature-1-rifle-scope-mount-rings.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/burris-airgun-rimfire-signature-1-rifle-scope-mount-rings.html)
Medium will work for 32mm objective.
I like to use a one-piece to clamp to the dovetail, to evenly distribute the clamping force, and I've been a fan of the Burris Sig's from my firearm days. After discovering the BKL 1-piece w/rings had turret clearance issues, I went with the BKL dove-to-weaver so I could use my gool 'ol Burris Sigs.
I just can't get used to the big "thumbscrew" on the rimfire/airgun model.