GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: ajshoots on October 20, 2014, 08:56:57 PM
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I installed the new WAR valve and hammer in my gen2 .22 and .25 mrods. Here are the specs and results for both guns.
.22 Gen2 mrod: War valve and no bounce hammer, 10 lbs hammer spring, Marmot Militia barrel band.
JSB Monster 25.4gr 2800psi starting fill pressure. 906.6fps avg 20 shots.
887, 900, 894, 927, 925, 926, 928, 920, 916, 927, 914, 912, 910, 906, 901, 896, 890, 885, 885, 883.
.25 Gen2 mrod: War valve and no bounce hammer, 12.5 lbs hammer spring, Marmot Militia barrel band.
Eunjin 43.2gr 3200psi starting fill pressure. 861.5fps avg 8 shots.
851, 865, 867, 862, 867, 867, 863, 850.
These valves and hammers are amazing. Both guns are super quiet and though weather hasn't allowed for any real accuracy testing, both are producing a ragged hole at 30 yards under far less than ideal conditions. My goals were the utmost power with accuracy out of both guns for hunting medium game up to coyotes. What I saw during tuning shows that this valve and hammer combo is capable of ALOT. You could tune down for higher shot counts but still producing alot of power for an mrod. I had a goal of 8 shots at 850fps avg with 43.2gr in the .25 and I past that so I had no need to go further. Same basic deal with the .22. Wanted 20 shots at 900fps avg with 25.4gr in .22 and I got there.
I did play with jsb's in the .25 and am sure 16 shots as high as 950fps avg is possible. I easily got 8 shots over 1000fps avg.
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The No Bounce hammer makes the mrod very quiet!! You would never guess how fast these guns are pushing heavy pellets based on the report. My .22 at 900fps with 14.3 boxed premiers was louder than the same gun with WAR internals pushing the jsb monster 25.4's at 906!! My .25 is as quiet at 860fps with 43.2's as it was with stock internals at 860 with 25.4 jsb's!! I also have removed the factory depinger. There is no depinger in either gun now.
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That sound good. Keep us informed on the accuracy.
How much $ is the valve, and the hammer ?
Nice work
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Nice...makes me consider a M-Rod even more.
Joe
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That sound good. Keep us informed on the accuracy.
How much $ is the valve, and the hammer ?
Nice work
WAR valve $150 USD /each
WAR No Bounce hammer $100.00 USD /each
Not for the penny pinchers, but for those wanting Power & Shot count !
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wow proud of them valves and hammers LOL.
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They aren't cheap, but there is nothing on the market that will produce this kind of power with this shot count in the mrod!! From a single front bag off a window sill, I am seeing great accuracy out to and slightly past 100 yards in both guns. Benched properly with good conditions should produce 1.5moa if not moa. This is just from my observations thus far. The guns show they are more accurate than when stock and both would produce 1.5moa at 100 yards and best groups at or below moa in stock form. "Stock" meaning stock internals that were modded and tuned.
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that's awesome man, I hope they work well for you. me I cannot warm up to anything crosman makes and ive had/tried about every single one. much less sink that kinda $$$ into one.
Josh
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Cant wait for mine.
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AJshoots,
Can you post what was the ending pressure for the .22 synrod?
Do you think you could have pushed those jsb monsters to 940 fps avg?
Any chance you can run a string at the 940 fps to see what kind of shot count you can get ?
Do those JSB monsters fit in the magazine or did you have to trim the magazine to fit?
Is the barrel port opened up?
Do you think you can get the ES less than 4.7% on the shot string with tuning ?
As you can tell, I have lots of questions for the capabilities of the new valve and mods. I really want to get one but I am hesitant to fork over $150 for only 46fpe and 20 shots with a 4.7%ES.
I can already get 923 fps avg with 10 shots with 21.14 barracuda's with an ES of 2.4% (3000psi to 2500psi). That's an average of 40fpe with just a 10lb spring and tp opened to .0141".
What's really got me wondering is if the TP and barrel TP is opened up the same amount as what the war valve requires, will the 22synrod (stock valve) achieve the same FPS and shot count as the war valve ONLY.
Or
Does the NBH hammer make the most difference in the shot count at the 46 FPE ?
It looks like from the data I have been reading about the war valve, the .25 cal takes more of a liking than the 22 when it comes to awesome power and shot count.
This is not a negative post on the war valve...... I just want to know what I am spending $150 on or $250 with the NBH. Sometimes I think I may have bought the wrong PCP for the amount I payed for with the marauder and maybe I should have been looking at something else. With just these extra parts it puts the marauder at $700 ( atleast for me).
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AJshoots,
Can you post what was the ending pressure for the .22 synrod?
Do you think you could have pushed those jsb monsters to 940 fps avg?
Any chance you can run a string at the 940 fps to see what kind of shot count you can get ?
Do those JSB monsters fit in the magazine or did you have to trim the magazine to fit?
Is the barrel port opened up?
Do you think you can get the ES less than 4.7% on the shot string with tuning ?
As you can tell, I have lots of questions for the capabilities of the new valve and mods. I really want to get one but I am hesitant to fork over $150 for only 46fpe and 20 shots with a 4.7%ES.
I can already get 923 fps avg with 10 shots with 21.14 barracuda's with an ES of 2.4% (3000psi to 2500psi). That's an average of 40fpe with just a 10lb spring and tp opened to .0141".
What's really got me wondering is if the TP and barrel TP is opened up the same amount as what the war valve requires, will the 22synrod (stock valve) achieve the same FPS and shot count as the war valve ONLY.
Or
Does the NBH hammer make the most difference in the shot count at the 46 FPE ?
It looks like from the data I have been reading about the war valve, the .25 cal takes more of a liking than the 22 when it comes to awesome power and shot count.
This is not a negative post on the war valve...... I just want to know what I am spending $150 on or $250 with the NBH. Sometimes I think I may have bought the wrong PCP for the amount I payed for with the marauder and maybe I should have been looking at something else. With just these extra parts it puts the marauder at $700 ( atleast for me).
First off, end pressure was around 2000psi. Gun gauge is useless and was simply using the tank gauge and could be off one way or the other.
I think 940fps avg is possible. I think there are alot of possibilities with this valve and hammer. However, I believe the valve and hammer as a combo are what make the real magic. Not sure what each would do stand alone? I do know that I am running the same .181 barrel port as I ran with modded stock valve and I couldn't reach these number by a long shot. I was only using the stock hammer spring before though? There are so many tuning options and I only tested to the point that I reached my goals. Both guns are getting tighter more consistant shot to shot with more pellets down the tube!! I have only shot paper at 30 yards and both guns are making a ragged hole. I do have targets at 50, 70, and 100 yards spinners and such that I have shot at. From what I see, 1.5moa if not 1moa should be easily achievable.
Yes, I am sure the .25 is easier to tune as this combo was designed for .25. Though I feel no need to tune the .22 any further as the power and accuracy will give me everything I need, If someone wanted to play with different tp's, hammer springs, valves springs, ect, then the sky is the limit. JSB monsters do fit my stock mags!
I can't tell you if this combo is right for you? I have owned alot of guns and many that cost a *(&^ of alot more than what I have invested in my 3 mrods. I feel the mrod is perfect for ME. Might not be for you or others? I like the easy access to both stock and mod parts at very cheap to reasonable prices. Plus, I am very familiar with this platform and know what it can and can't do. It can do what I need at a very good price point mods included. Also realize that you are only getting 10 shots. I am sure I could get your results but 20 plus shots. Also, Much harder to get a tight sd as shot count increases!! Remember this combo was meant for power with the best efficiency possible for a high fpe. Tight sd's at this kind of power and shot count aren't very easy. To me accuracy is more important than sd for what I do, and both guns are proving to be highly accurate.
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Just wanted to take a minute to post my overall thoughts on the mrod.
I have had mrods since they were first realesed. I have spoken to many tuners since. The current performance of my .22 and .25 have more or less been my goals for a long time. Every tuner I have spoken to told me these goals were not possible with an mrod. So, I have since chosen to do my own tuning with or without aftermarket parts. I have reached my goal simply because of the WAR valve and hammer.
With that in mind, If I wanted the utmost from modded stock internals for hunting, I would contact Tim Hill. I feel Mr Hill has done some really remarkable things with modded stock parts! If I didn't want to do the work myself and WAR didn't exist, his stuff would be in my guns! If I was into paper punching and or FT, Motorhead would be my go to guy. His work with regulated .177's and .22's is awesome! His light weight hammer and whatever else he does to get such wonderful performance is in my mind the best for that type of shooting! But, I wanted the most power that could still achive a great shot count per the limits of the airtube and gun as a whole. Also wanting the best accuracy with said power. I have that with my WAR equipped guns!
Just my thoughts based on my own experiences and needs. Yours may be the same or much different, but The 3 mentioned above would be my only choices.
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AJshoots,
Now that's what I like to hear. No bull and not getting personal. Everything you said makes me want to go with the WAR valve. Thanks for laying everything out. You couldn't be any more precise with hills parts vs motorheads parts vs WAR's parts.
Your right, The marauder has endless tunes and potential. It's just what does the shooter want. For me, its being able to tune from around 20fpe with a very high shot count for backyard plinking and then being able to turn it up to over 50fpe with a mag shot or more for hunting.
Too me, that's what a marauder should be able to deliver, and from the looks of it, the WAR valve and NBH hammer can make this happen. Right???
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Shorty,
I will say that if I could only have one, it would be really hard to choose? I love the hard hitting power of my .25. Just killed a squirrel this evening (First since adding the WAR Power) it was absolutely CRUSHED!! But, I really like what the .22 is doing and what potential it holds.
If you go to WAR. LOL!! I would recommend playing with everything to explore the potential! Try stock up to 12.5 hammer spring, varying tp and barrel tp, not to mention all the combos of HT and HS with different springs and tp's!! Sky is the limit. I will recommend polishing the hammer to a very high shine when used in the .22 with 10lbs spring or less. I would polish the hammer chamber of the airtube and the hammer to a mirror finish!! If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact me. I will also say that Travis is a first class dude that will do whatever it takes to make you happy with his products!!
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Just wanted to share my experience with the WAR valve as well. I've got a Gen 1 .25 mrod, that I have put a 500cc bottle kit on.
With the factory valve, hammer spring and bottle, I had the rifle tuned to shoot from 900-925-900 for about 40 shots with 25.4 JSB
Now with the war valve and 12.5# spring I am shooting 950-975-950 for 50+ shots with the 25.4 JSB. With a few turns of the spring it will shoot the JSB'S from 1020-1050-1020 for 20 shots. This valve is truly amazing! I have no desire to shoot the JSB'S over 1000fps, but a nice heavy slug in the 900's is completely achievable I believe.
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Just wanted to share my experience with the WAR valve as well. I've got a Gen 1 .25 mrod, that I have put a 500cc bottle kit on.
With the factory valve, hammer spring and bottle, I had the rifle tuned to shoot from 900-925-900 for about 40 shots with 25.4 JSB
Now with the war valve and 12.5# spring I am shooting 950-975-950 for 50+ shots with the 25.4 JSB. With a few turns of the spring it will shoot the JSB'S from 1020-1050-1020 for 20 shots. This valve is truly amazing! I have no desire to shoot the JSB'S over 1000fps, but a nice heavy slug in the 900's is completely achievable I believe.
AWESOME RESULTS!!
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Are they considered war-rods now? Lol. I soooooooo want a. 25 synrod even more!
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Are these number ( in the .22) really all that different then dropping in a .25 crosman valve and changing the hammer spring?
John
I did that on mine...long, long ago...and got maximum, Korean shot cliff profile at comparable power, and slightly lower in count when tuned to something like a 42 FPE peak. Have not had a .22 pellet shooter in a while, though another barrel is underway to play with( a poly LW ), so I may up-cal the bottled 20 and give it a try( that one is currently sporting a bored out 2563 body and a ported spring cap).
It looks like the hammer will be of particular use when running low pressure tunes like I have on my 25 cal. That one has a big valve, and is capable of 100 FPE with slugs...will have to wait a bit and see. Perhaps call Travis and see where mine is.
cheers,
Douglas
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So who's making these WAR products? I'm very interested.
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So who's making these WAR products? I'm very interested.
WAR = Wicked Air Rifles http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcc8f50dUuQkApFgPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByaDNhc2JxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1414027167/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwickedairrifles.com%2f/RK=0/RS=wJBOrfEyjNPn4WsKisdCBYH9mS0- (http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrTcc8f50dUuQkApFgPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByaDNhc2JxBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1414027167/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwickedairrifles.com%2f/RK=0/RS=wJBOrfEyjNPn4WsKisdCBYH9mS0-)
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Thanks I didn't know it was Marmot Malitia.
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Thanks I didn't know it was Marmot Malitia.
MM and the M-rod forum sell his products
http://www.marauderairrifle.com/shops/wicked-air-rifles/ (http://www.marauderairrifle.com/shops/wicked-air-rifles/)
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Marmot Militia Is now Wicked Air Rifles. All the parts on WAR are a collaboration between Jim and myself (Travis) except those Jim had designed in the past. Jim does almost all the Machine work except for some stuff we farm out to local USA machinists nothing is made overseas.
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The valve looks great. My only thing is the price tag that comes with it. I don't know if it is worth the $150 but very nice work indeed.
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Rdsail hit the nail on the head with price point. Shelling out $150 for the valve plus the NBH puts it to about $250. don't get me wrong though, I still think the WAR valve is awesome and I really want one (really bad). BUT,,,,, For me, the 22 ain't got me completely sold yet and unfortunately, this is what I have.
If I had the .25, I would be all over it like, well you know. This valve and the NBH in a .25 sounds like the perfect match for someone that wants beyond what ever else is on the market and stock for the .25 marauder for power,accuracy, and shot count.
Maybe there's not enough shot strings and power levels for the .22 yet.
I just don't understand why the 22 cant see the same numbers (and shot count increase) as the .25 cal. I have to be missing something or it's just not enough attention on the .22 cal.
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Simple, the area of a .25 cal pellet is a third larger, allowing the air to develop that much more force at the same pressure.... and propel a 1/3 heavier pellet at the same velocity.... producing 33% more FPE.... while using about a third more air....
Bob
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even then I'm not sure if it is worth it. Most mrod 25s don't shoot the heavy pellets well so there is no point on powering up unless we switch the barrel that will shoot slugs or the heavy pellets.
I always put my mrod 25 tune. I get 30 shots at 45fpe with JSBs kings. The gun is capable of a lot more power but there are no pellets that perform well. This is with a modified mrod valve. Accuracy is number one for me, so there is no reason to get a valve that can produce 80-100fpe if you can't hit what you want. At $150 I can buy quiet a few stock valves and modify them for different power levels.
I get 60 fpe with my valve and I can open it up quiet a bit still. My post are at .161.
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I'd like to see some accuracy reports on the .25 with heavy pellets and with the king's at 950 fps.
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Rstern,
The 22 has approximately 21.2% more surface area that of a 25 with the same grain pellet ( 25.4 grain). It's the longer length that gives more surface area. So with that being said, are we saying that the barrel friction to pellet (with the 25) is so much less that it propels the pellet faster than the 22 along with the higher shot count or what you said "less air to propel"?
I am not buying that. Something else is going on. I don't claim to know whats going on but, I sure would like to know.
The only thing that's coming to my mind is that the barrel on a 25 is 13% larger in diameter than a 22 (approximately). This may mean that the ports (all the ports-including the barrel) on a 22 can not be opened large enough to allow the HPA to deliver the same amount of pressure and volume to achieve the same results.
For one thing I really want the valve. I think the WAR valve is more than capable of doing the same thing to the 22 as it did to the .25 cal. Just a little more thinking has to be done. I got disappointed earlier when I read a post on the marauder forum from OldPro sugggesting Hill's valve over his for a guy that wanted it for a 22. That's stand up in my book but, from what I see there is a really big potential with the WAR valve on the 22 as well if you want over 50fpe with >30 shots. Just got to show it with the numbers.
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I think he is talking about Volume. A 10cc volume of 1800psi contains more potential energy than 8cc of 1800psi.
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shorty, the ratio of the area of the base of the pellet, which is what the air gets to push on, is (.250/.217)^2 = 1.327, which for me is close enough to 33%.... The surface area of the pellet has nothing to do with the energy that can be reached with a given pressure and barrel length.... That energy (FPE) is based on the force on the pellet (pressure times area = lbs.) and the length through which that force gets to accelerate the pellet (barrel length in ft.).... If you want to do some reading on the subject, this thread may help.... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=57828.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=57828.0)
Any given valve and porting may or may not work better in .22 cal or .25 cal, but the POTENTIAL FPE is relative to caliber, pressure, and barrel length.... simple Physics....
Bob
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Reterne,
Good discussion. Your right.
CSA =((d/2)*(d/2))*3.142 "Cross sectional area"
.25 = CSA of .04909
.22 = CSA of .03698
Difference of 32.7%. Your right, I was wrong. Like usually but learning.
At 1800psi behind the .25 is 88lbs of force pushing the pellet and with a 22 it is only 65 lbs of pressure ( I Think ). This is approximately 35% less energy that the pellet is seeing with the 22. Your right again.
To be equivalent to a 25 the 22 would have to run at 2380psi ( would this be right? ). The again, the marauder charges to 3000psi (3200psi). So, what gives? Does this mean that the ports would have to be larger than the 25 to achieve equivalency. Or is it plain ole impossible.
I am terrible with numbers so give me my chewing.
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So I just ran the numbers from AJshoots avg FPS on both tunes between the 22 and 25.
Amazing how things work. With 35% less force behind the 22 calculation the numbers match up to AJshoots FPE just like you said.
22 running 46 fpe is 35% less than the 71 FPE that the 25 is shooting.
So maybe I did answer my own question. Maybe you cant achieve over 50fpe with the 22 with a 10 or more shot count regardless of the valve.
Then again, if my 22 synrod can achieve 10 shots at 40 fpe, then a 25 synrod with a 10lb hammer and ports opened to .141" should be able to achieve 62 FPE but I have not seen anyone tune to anything like that with just the hammer spring and larger port. With the math saying it and not me, that says that the valve and the NBH only achieves an additional 8-10 fpe with a 1 shot mag for the 25. Could this be right ?
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I maxed out my mrod 25 with 63fpe with a 12.5# spring and ports at .161. Granted that was with EJ 35g. I might get some more power with EJ43. but they shot all over the place. I think it will be hard to get to 60 fpe with just .141 ports. Just not enough flow and if you get there it would be inefficient.
I might be able to gain some power if I increase the size of the poppet sit/throat. Right now it is at .210.
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So with what Rdsail said about him maxing his 25 out to 63 fpe the math does seem right.
I don't know how to say this any other way then, it sounds like the WAR valve only achieves 8 to 10 more FPE over a stock valve and has the capability to dump to a 100fpe (25 cal). This cant be right, can it ?
It sounds like a TP and barrel porting along with a >/= 10 lb spring for $10 is a "dang" good investment and modification to the marauder regardless of the caliber. For $10's your increasing the fpe by 10fpe to 20 fpe over stock regardless of caliber.
Introduce the NBH to the picture and shot count goes up. I am pretty sure I understand how the NBH works and I think the wedge design is just brilliant.
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Shorty,
Check out the link in my signature about my build. You will find all the info there with the mods I did. Plenty of strings to look at.
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Maybe you cant achieve over 50fpe with the 22 with a 10 or more shot count regardless of the valve.
It is quite possible to valve up a .22 to shoot over 50 FPE. Just takes a heavier projectile. Unfortunately most of such things are .224 so you'll need a new barrel. Mine will push 46 grains to +100 FPE...with a 27" barrel. It is currently running slightly less than that with only 39 gr boolits. I have to run a casting session; there are some other 46's I want to try( gas checked, not plain base ).
With a stock tube, and high power, you'll be getting 6-700 FPE per fill. In case of the 25 cal, I have done 8 at 80 FPE. With a .22 perhaps 10 at 60 FPE (peaks slightly higher, and 4% spread ). The WAR valve looks like it has the capacity to run good efficiency at substantial power...certainly a pellet energy string, flattened by a bstaley buffer would be quite achievable, and at good air usage levels compared to even modified valves.
cheers,
Douglas
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Marauder .22 cal. rifle 58 fpe ( near max ) with a modified parts kit
(http://i1365.photobucket.com/albums/r750/marauderrifle/IMG_1371_zpsa9974357.jpg) (http://s1365.photobucket.com/user/marauderrifle/media/IMG_1371_zpsa9974357.jpg.html)
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With the WAR valve we have been able to push a 43.2 Eunjin in .25 cal to 1050 FPS for 105.8 FPE!!! If I had some larger lead im sure I could reach 115 maybe more. I can easily shoot .25 JSB Kings supersonic. This is not hype our customers can verify it on their own rifles.
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No dog in the fight ... but as others have questioned, Speed and Power with poor accuracy serves no purpose ???
Would love to see some 50 or 100 yard grouping with .22 and .25 rifles with heavy pellets at the upper power ranges.
* Hype sells only so far ... Certainly be more telling tasting the steak than just smelling it .... Don't ya think ?
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+1 with Motörhead comment. That is the reason my mrod 25 is tuned for 44fpe.
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I agree power is useless if you cant hit what your aiming at but thats where the end user (buyer)must be able to tune their gun. If your over shooting your pellet sure you will have issues, we supply the parts to get you from stock speeds up to supersonic levels with JSB Kings but its the end user who must set up their Guns to use the power correctly and Im available by phone 8 hours a day 6 days a week so no one will be left guessing what to do. There are many ways to set up a rifle (power,shot count,tight ES etc.) and these can all be achieved by your set-up, so as far as what parts are more accurate is kind of a hollow question its more of whats the most accurate set up for your desired power requirement. I hope that makes sense and please don't be afraid to call me with questions about tunes or parts or drop and email travis@wickedairrifles.com
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Also one must understand that everyone isn't using their Guns for the same purpose for example I would never tell someone to go shoot a Pig with a 40FPE Marauder under any circumstance nor would I suggest a person Target shoot for groups with a 100FPE tune but being able to do both with the same gun at different tune levels well that's what I call a flexible power plant.
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Motorhead
Rdsail
I don't even have a dog :'(
http://www.marauderairrifle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9929 (http://www.marauderairrifle.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9929)
But just incase you were asking me:
It may not be the best tune for punching field target paper, but I think most would agree that with this kind of accuracy, for the hunters of possum sized animals, a broadside shot within the pictured target distance of 48 yards ( or less ), would be lethal.
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BTW- this is for some of the other shooters ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG1QKb8guuU&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG1QKb8guuU&feature=youtu.be)
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Shooting paper with a 100 FPE, 22 cal is quite possible. It takes boolits in the 45+ grain weight. Mine is currently de-tuned to 80 FPE to shoot 39 gr. That is just where it is currently happiest. I have a new mold that weighs more, and with that more energy can be delivered at what I hope is a slightly faster MV. I don't quite see it happening with a 20", pellet barrel...their twists are not fast enough, and the barrel not long enough. 50 gr is probably a reasonable sub-sonic limit for the 1:14 twist of the TJ liner in .224/.219.
I tried the .300, 26" twist barrel with the slugs backwards( sooooper boat tail ), and they were not at all happy. I plan some more adjustment, and likely de-tune to around 140 FPE or so...where ever I can find its happy spot I s'pose.
The next one is going to be .308 with a 14" twist and that will allow longer boolits( heavier too ), for even more energy...:) I am looking forward to a 200 FPE WAR valve...better yet, one that can run well over that in .357. Come on Travis, get with the high power...:)
cheers,
Douglas
it was pretty cool to get a SS crack out of a 28 gr EJ though...lol ( 1174 fps )
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My .25 Mrod is all stock except WAR valve and hammer, 12.5 hammer spring, and barrel port opened to .187. Tried a new tune today with JSB's. Hammer spring preload=0 Striker=3. 3000psi fill
957fps avg for 16 shots. Winds were 12-20mph gusting slightly left to right and sometimes almost head on. I did try to some extent to wait on wind gusts, but was hard. Single sand bag rest shooting prone.
30 yards 8 shots .4" groups
50 yards 8 shots .875" groups
100 yards 4 shots 1.4" total of 8 shots 2.3" groups.
Doesn't sound impressive, but the wind was tough to shoot in and I did my best. If I would have had more daylight I would have setup my benchrest setup, but feel these groups were very good per the weather.
With my Eunjin 43.2gr tune of 8 shots at 861fps avg, I had groups under similar conditions of 1.4" at 50 yards for 8 shots. Didn't try at 100 yards but will when weather permits.
My tune goals are based on as much accurate power as possible for hunting game upto coyotes. I am sure that bringing power levels down for shot count and such would yield even better accuracy as pellets normally don't shoot well at high velocity. However, shooting in the windy conditions I have had lately, I think precision accuracy is very possible even at these high speed tunes.
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Thanks for the update, I'm keeping my eye on this gun.
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Was hoping to shoot groups with the .22 today, but weather is not cooperating and we just got a new lab pup today. Hope to be able to get some groups with the .22 at 50 and 100 yards to post in the next few days. Would be nice to find a good calm day to ring out both guns and get a good feeling for what both are capable of in the accuracy department.
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Thought I'd bring the topic back up to see if anyone has been using the war stuff. I'm still interested in it.
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Just an FYI. I was at 71fpe with 43.2gr eunjins. The accuracy was ok at 50yards but not good enough to go any further. I ended up going back to jsb's at 52fpe for 16 shots. Absolute tack driver even at 960+fps out to and slightly past 100yards. Meaning moa average out to 100 yards.
My .22 is up to 47fpe with 25gr jsb monsters. 20 shots and very accurate. This gun shoots alittle better than the .25 but not by much.
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Good to hear aj, are your guns wood or synthetic? I'm just curious as to how they handle in the field?
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I don't have a dog in the fight either. I run one of the old A2A valves which are no longer in production. Maxed out I can push a 43.2 Eunjin at 997fps but only if I overfill to 3400 psi. I'll get 3-4 shots at the top of the bell curve and the fifth shot will start to drop. 5 shots use 400psi. I decided that isn't practical so I detuned back down to 880fps with Barracudas.
Concerning accuracy, I haven't shot groups with Eunjins beyond 20 yards. I do know they have a different point of impact at 20 yards at that power level than Rat Sniper Slugs or Barracudas (which both have the same POI with each other). I'm skeptical the Eunjins hold a good pattern beyond 20 yards but I think the slugs and the Barracudas would hold well.
Where I think the extra power helps is on body shots of larger animals when paired with a bullet or pellet that will mushroom easy. But I'm undecided whether the extra power is worth the decrease in shot count.
I do believe the beauty of these modified valves of whatever "brand" is that when they're modded or built right they greatly improve the efficiency of the Mrod's air usage. In my opinion the Mrod's greatest weakness is the inefficiency of its valve. You don't have to shoot for max fpe. Max efficiency is a better goal.
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Interesting to see the MRod owners having the same experience as I did with my Hatsan AT-44S Long.... Crank it up to 75 FPE, find out there are no pellets that are accurate up there, and then tune it back into the low 50's with the JSB Kings and get a tack driver.... I surely hope that the new (34ish gr.?) JSB Heavy .25 cal pellets will allow us to create an ACCURATE quarterbore in the 70+ FPE range....
Don't want to steer the thread I that direction, just a comment....
Bob
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I'm with bob on this one. One reason I might get a TJ barrel to shoot casts. We will see
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I have the WAR parts in my 25 M-rod with 17 pound hammer (from Nat450) and shot 72 grain Black Mambas (also from Nat450) at a peak of 98 FPE. Nat450 was able to shoot the Black Mambas with these same parts up to 104 FPE.
Those Black Mambas are serious projectiles - comparable in weight to a heavy 223 bullet. But I have not shot groups with them yet, but I did shoot an off-hand group of 5 at 25 yards that was pretty tight - all within squirrel kill zone.
I got some 43 grain EunJins that I will test out for accuracy over the next few weeks and will report back.
Ray
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I have the WAR parts in my 25 M-rod with 17 pound hammer (from Nat450) and shot 72 grain Black Mambas (also from Nat450) at a peak of 98 FPE. Nat450 was able to shoot the Black Mambas with these same parts up to 104 FPE.
Those Black Mambas are serious projectiles - comparable in weight to a heavy 223 bullet. But I have not shot groups with them yet, but I did shoot an off-hand group of 5 at 25 yards that was pretty tight - all within squirrel kill zone.
I got some 43 grain EunJins that I will test out for accuracy over the next few weeks and will report back.
Ray
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Now that's a heavy hammer :o
Look out squirrel ;D
Seems like someone would have tried one of those valves with a .30 cal. by now :-\
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I could get to a max of 80fpe with 43.2 eunjins with 12.5lb spring and 3200psi fill. Don't have any heavier springs or any slugs to try?? Was able to get alittle over 60fpe with my .22 10lb spring and jsb monster 25gr 3200psi fill.
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So are the War Hammers the same, lighter, or heavier than a stock M-Rod hammer and what is the exact weight on them compared to a stock hammer?
Joe
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hopefully I will be able to test a WAR valve and a max out mrod valve and compare them. That will be mixed with a 17# hammer spring and 109gram hammer.
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I am becoming suspicious of some of what I read. Are we seeing another copycat hoping to make it big on other's innovations?
mmmmmm
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I am becoming suspicious of some of what I read. Are we seeing another copycat hoping to make it big on other's innovations?
mmmmmm
I have no idea what you are trying to say. Please be more specific and remember no vendor bashing is allowed.
Tom
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I have to say that the produces that I have gotten from WAR has top quality. I have s bottle kit and valve. The valve works extremely well and could not have being machined any better. My application is high power. 100 fpe and up and the valved worked perfectly. I did modify the ports some for the higher flow and I still have room to add more power. Only if I would have hoes with .300 instead of .25.
All I know war hammer and valve at unique and they work. The hammer is actually a huge improvement when it comes to hammer tech in my opinion. The first hammer that actually decreased bounce and just a drop in. It is not an external device that reduces hammer energy in both directions.
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I have no idea what voltar1 is talking about either. Copy cat? Who am I copying lol? Suspicious Of what? Totally confused by your comment sir! Here's my phone number call me and talk to me in person if you have questions or don't understand what I offer. Travis 1-661-904-7046 WAR.