GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 => Topic started by: shorty on March 31, 2014, 09:08:32 PM
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Well, I have had the .22 synrod and benji pump now for a couple months. Everything is great except for pumping. Last weekend I boosted the pump and it still is a pain ( even though boosting cut the pumps in half). Pumping just kind of ruins the fun sometimes.
Planning on motorizing the pump like the videos on youtube. I seen only one for sale from Co2 airguns. $998.00 are you kidding?
So it looks like the biggest cost will be the motor assembly for me. I just want to get the motor and gear box right on paper first before buying one. So, if anyone knows about the Lbs per inch ratings on DC right angle drive motors, I can use some help.
It looks like 1300 lbs/in is needed for the task.Meaning, 8.5 inch radius and 150 lbs push pull torque/power. I was looking at a 1/4 horse DC right angle drive motor with a 100:1 gear box. I just don't know if that would do it ? any thoughts ?
Gathering up the steel this week to work on the frame over the weekend.
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;D I'm impressed as the say necessity is the mother of invention. I'm just getting lazy in my old age and will just throw money at the problem. I'm happy with the Freedom 8 and Guppy tank, but since I hooked my brother with an Evanix Rainstorm II he shared the cost of the pump ;) ;)
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I got tired of pumping real quick too. I just ordered shoebox 8 and guppy tank from airtanks for sale. They say it will refill gun about 12 times. I get about 35-40 shots per fill so that should plenty for when I go to my place in the country. I just hate that I spent the money on the hand pump. Should have gotten the shoebox to start with
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I never did buy a pump, I shopped craigslist and found my 100cf 3300 psi alum. tank for $70. I added the fill valve, whip, tests and first fill for less than the $140 it would have cost to bundle the pump with my FD-PCP. Our local fire dept fills it for a nominal yearly donation and we get around 330 fills from a tank. Our guns only fill to 1500psi.
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Well, I have had the .22 synrod and benji pump now for a couple months. Everything is great except for pumping. Last weekend I boosted the pump and it still is a pain ( even though boosting cut the pumps in half). Pumping just kind of ruins the fun sometimes.
Planning on motorizing the pump like the videos on youtube. I seen only one for sale from Co2 airguns. $998.00 are you kidding?
So it looks like the biggest cost will be the motor assembly for me. I just want to get the motor and gear box right on paper first before buying one. So, if anyone knows about the Lbs per inch ratings on DC right angle drive motors, I can use some help.
It looks like 1300 lbs/in is needed for the task.Meaning, 8.5 inch radius and 150 lbs push pull torque/power. I was looking at a 1/4 horse DC right angle drive motor with a 100:1 gear box. I just don't know if that would do it ? any thoughts ?
Gathering up the steel this week to work on the frame over the weekend.
How did you (boost) the pump?
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Yeah, I am interested in 'how' the pump was boosted too.
I just entered the darkside and should take delivery of the .25 M-rod I bought tomorrow.
To add, and I cannot think of a nice way to ask, but is pumping really that bad or are you guys old and out of shape? I understand if someone has an injury or arthritis but many a pump are sold and it seems odd not everyone dumps their pump for a shoebox/ Freedom 8 and guppy tank.
Outside of the convenience factor, what gives?
BZ
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Pumping isn't that bad, depending on the gun. Pumping up my .177 Srod isn't too bad, but pumping my P rod is cake by comparison. I would not want to hand pump anything with a large air tank, like the AF guns. I boosted my hill pump, best thing I ever did.
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pumping isn't that bad, its harder than turning a valve or flipping a switch. im only 30 though and in pretty good shape. I would love to have a 6k nitrogen set up though. when money permits I will im sure.
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;D Well I'm 67 and using the hand pump before I can shoot cuts into my play and as an aside for an old fart not in bad shape either just lazy
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;D Well I'm 67 and using the hand pump before I can shoot cuts into my play and as an aside for an old fart not in bad shape either just lazy
"Just Lazy" is an appropriate response LOL! But you should add Just Lazy and I have the MONEY to toss the pump! 8)
BZ
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Can someone please elaborate on this "pump boosting"? Is there a kit available?
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a searching for pump boosting from the Gateway "menu page" (other forums call it the forum menu or forum listing) will get you all you want to know...basically you use an 80psi OIL LESS compressor regulated down to 20psi to feed the pump...
the real question is how power are you playing with?...at the range shooting an average of 2 shots a minute...
a 15fpe .177 pumping is a viable option 1/2 hour of pumping gets you an hour of shooting..
my .25 BT65 at 55fpe other the other hand makes hand pumping a joke, pump for an hour to shoot for 15 minutes..
and there are the "Range Clowns" that laugh and ask how your bicycle is doing while they shoot store bought PB ammo....which is where the big .25s and it's bigger and badder cousins come into play, when you shoot better groups at 100 yard than the PB guys with the big mouths...
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a searching for pump boosting from the Gateway "menu page" (other forums call it the forum menu or forum listing) will get you all you want to know...basically you use an 80psi OIL LESS compressor regulated down to 20psi to feed the pump...
the real question is how power are you playing with?...at the range shooting an average of 2 shots a minute...
a 15fpe .177 pumping is a viable option 1/2 hour of pumping gets you an hour of shooting..
my .25 BT65 at 55fpe other the other hand makes hand pumping a joke, pump for an hour to shoot for 15 minutes..
and there are the "Range Clowns" that laugh and ask how your bicycle is doing while they shoot store bought PB ammo....which is where the big .25s and it's bigger and badder cousins come into play, when you shoot better groups at 100 yard than the PB guys with the big mouths...
Thanks. I found this thread... http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62664.0 (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=62664.0) Helps a bit, but I was hoping for a parts list to go from my Benjamin pump to my air compressor hose. Guess I'll have to experiment a bit.
And to the second part of your post, each shot from my Disco requires 5 pumps on the Benji pump. Gets exhausting pretty quickly.
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Where to begin? I'm only 55 years so I don't think that means I'm old. I really do not have much trouble getting it up to about 2200 lbs, but after that I am not heavy enough to use my weight to to pump it. I only 160 lbs. I have to pick my feet of the floor and bounce on it. I have the aa s500. Yea I think I will enjoy shooting more when I get my shoebox, why make things harder than they have to be?
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;D ;D why make things harder than they have to be?
S500 gets it yes I can do the Hill pump and at 5'10" 225 lb no problem pumping even the Condor but if I want to sweat I will go out in my 18 ft kayak or ride my Cannondale road bike both are more fun to sweat doing than standing in one place and breaking a sweat before I can have any fun
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You guys must be in better shape than I. Iam 41, 5' 6",220 lbs drink, smoke, have 2 kids, a crazy wife,and a full time job.. I pump 40 to 60 times per fill ( 1950psi to 2600 psi or so) I get somewhere around 40 to 50 shots but I like to shoot more and I really don't have the money for a compressor or shoebox. I sweat when I am done pumping. It just not worthy, but shooting is so much fun when your arms are not shaking and you need another beer and smoke to start shooting again.
Anyway, I am glad a few people are watching the post as I find my parts build for the electric pump ( AS SEEN ON YOUTUBE ).
It's looking like metal cost will be under $30.00 and the motors are looking like under $100.00 on Ebay.
I have a chop saw and a small wire feed welder. Some electronics know how and bam. Can't wait till the weekend to get some time in the workshop.
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;) Go for it I am watching with bated breath. Still drinking just not as much as before second marriage, quit smoking when I started going out in an ocean kayak some unexpected ugly weather and thoughts of imminent death convinced me to quit. Now all I need to do is loose 25 lbs and see my shoes to tie them and I'll be a happy camper. Also then I won't be gasping for air and shaking from exhaustion when I go out west to do some elk hunting with a .357 PCP ;D ;D ;D
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Pumping puts hair on your chest!!hahahaha I have no issues pumping but a tank makes it a whole lot easier when hunting that's for sure. 8)
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I think I cheated and missed out on the fun of pumping, I went straight for the 6K nitro and haven't looked back. It takes me 20 sec to fill my .25 S-Rod. Initial set up is rough but after that its less than what I spend on Polar Pops a year :D gotta have my Dr. Pepper. Now the serious part, don't skimp on your hardware. I did a lot of research finding where the B&C guy gets there parts, I went to the A guy and saved money. 6K is dangerous if you don't follow recommendations. My regulator was purchased used with a guarantee and its American built and serviced, sourced the bleed off valve, a real American built Foster fitting from Mac 1 (NOT A KNOCK OFF), my fill hose was ordered from Ralston industries also American built and family owned and ran. Total cost is around $225 and $86/yr lease on tank and $95 for the material
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Well, I have had the .22 synrod and benji pump now for a couple months. Everything is great except for pumping. Last weekend I boosted the pump and it still is a pain ( even though boosting cut the pumps in half). Pumping just kind of ruins the fun sometimes.
Planning on motorizing the pump like the videos on youtube. I seen only one for sale from Co2 airguns. $998.00 are you kidding?
So it looks like the biggest cost will be the motor assembly for me. I just want to get the motor and gear box right on paper first before buying one. So, if anyone knows about the Lbs per inch ratings on DC right angle drive motors, I can use some help.
It looks like 1300 lbs/in is needed for the task.Meaning, 8.5 inch radius and 150 lbs push pull torque/power. I was looking at a 1/4 horse DC right angle drive motor with a 100:1 gear box. I just don't know if that would do it ? any thoughts ?
Gathering up the steel this week to work on the frame over the weekend.
Best of luck with your DC motorized pump. I myself couldn't find a way to use a DC motor gearbox without an AC to DC converter/controller @ 6amp minimum so that's were I found it cost prohibitive and where I stopped. I'm sure if you have a working plan you will be having a lots watching your build, including me.
I did however build a copy of a gentleman's on Yellow using a 110VAC, 3/4 hp, 56C, 1750 rpm motor, 40:1 Tigear 200 series gearbox @ 626"# output and Benji pump but it weighs in at 101# but I've got under $300 for all. (FYI, 60:1 would have been much better/easier on the pump)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3623_zps90fc7ed6.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3623_zps90fc7ed6.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3641_zps1acd1124.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3641_zps1acd1124.jpg.html)
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RMM,
Are you getting any stalling on the motor at 600" # output. I would have thought we needed a minimum of 1200" # to do the job.
To get past the cost of building a dc power supply I plan on connecting 2 12v batteries or get a cheap 24 v battery and keep the battery charger on until I can figure out how to build the power supply on the cheap.
Finally found a 24vdc right angle drive motor with a 100:1 gear box for under $100. That should put it just around 600" # at 30 rpm.
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RMM,
Are you getting any stalling on the motor at 600" # output. I would have thought we needed a minimum of 1200" # to do the job.
To get past the cost of building a dc power supply I plan on connecting 2 12v batteries or get a cheap 24 v battery and keep the battery charger on until I can figure out how to build the power supply on the cheap.
Finally found a 24vdc right angle drive motor with a 100:1 gear box for under $100. That should put it just around 600" # at 30 rpm.
No stalling even up to 3000 psi with a 40:1, .67 HP input (my motor is .75 hp). But the same 40:1 will not work with a 1/2 hp @ 110 vac but will work @ 220 vac (as I've heard).
I'm interested in your build and hope it works for you. I kinda went in the backdoor way and tried a 12VDC ATV winch @ 136:1 but the duty cycle and amperage required wouldn't take it to even 2000 psi without starting to stall. Your 24 VDC @ 100:1 has possibilities.
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3628_zpsde0ef4e1.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3628_zpsde0ef4e1.jpg.html)
As a matter of fact my first attempt to ease the pumping was this. I found out I just don't like pumping, I'd rather spend my time shooting. ;D
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3498_zpscd05759e.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/Airgun%20Stuff/IMG_3498_zpscd05759e.jpg.html)
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Thanks RMM for all the info.
I am very happy to say that I won the bid on EBay for the 1/2 horse 24Vdc right angle drive motor 100:1. I got it for $2.51 plus $24.00 shipping. Holly cow, what a deal. Definitely have to stick with the batteries as power for now. The "dang" motor draws 23 amps.
I guess I will have to move this post soon due to the build.
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Thanks RMM for all the info.
I am very happy to say that I won the bid on EBay for the 1/2 horse 24Vdc right angle drive motor 100:1. I got it for $2.51 plus $24.00 shipping. Holly cow, what a deal. Definitely have to stick with the batteries as power for now. The "dang" motor draws 23 amps.
I guess I will have to move this post soon due to the build.
Nice buy!! Keep us posted on your build. Inquiring minds would like to know. ;)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs9q03yfKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs9q03yfKI)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2843/13658092973_5d3227372b.jpg)
This is the system I'd build if I could figure out those rather large sized pulleys.
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;D That is an ingenious build I would love to shake that mans hand. :D
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Interesting stuff. The Fire Dept is less than a mile from our house. Chief told me to make a small donation to them once a year and he would fill my tank whenever. 100 cf @ 3300psi fills our 3 FD-PCP rifles about 330 times. I don't think we have the need for anything like this yet. I like learning about it though.
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I see the very nice conversion to a powered pump, but the glass jar full of desiccant is a bomb waiting to explode at 3K PSI. I would at the very least slip it into a PVC tube sleeve kind of thing or ideally replace it with DOM Stainless that had been Sanitary welded with Tig. Just wouldn't want to be standing anywhere close if the lid blows out or the vessel fails. All it would take is an intake valve failing to properly close and boom, ya got a redneck grenade....Just saying, and I certainly apologize and do not wish to dampen your enthusiasm or efforts thus far.
Wheelchair Bob
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I see the very nice conversion to a powered pump, but the glass jar full of desiccant is a bomb waiting to explode at 3K PSI. I would at the very least slip it into a PVC tube sleeve kind of thing or ideally replace it with DOM Stainless that had been Sanitary welded with Tig. Just wouldn't want to be standing anywhere close if the lid blows out or the vessel fails. All it would take is an intake valve failing to properly close and boom, ya got a redneck grenade....Just saying, and I certainly apologize and do not wish to dampen your enthusiasm or efforts thus far.
Wheelchair Bob
Good chime in---never know what can happen when it comes to air pressure.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs9q03yfKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJs9q03yfKI)
(https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2843/13658092973_5d3227372b.jpg)
This is the system I'd build if I could figure out those rather large sized pulleys.
If you wish the pulley setup information get in touch with the builder @ seepdrazer78@hotmail.com
I came up with the gearbox/motor searching the internet by a gentleman (he had a pulley system as his first) whom had to work with space constraints (such as I), built the gearbox/motor setup then graciously shared his work on Yellow thus took the calculation work out of it for me . Please note I have paid it forward.
I hope any or all the info provided helps you in your decision.
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I see the very nice conversion to a powered pump, but the glass jar full of desiccant is a bomb waiting to explode at 3K PSI. I would at the very least slip it into a PVC tube sleeve kind of thing or ideally replace it with DOM Stainless that had been Sanitary welded with Tig. Just wouldn't want to be standing anywhere close if the lid blows out or the vessel fails. All it would take is an intake valve failing to properly close and boom, ya got a redneck grenade....Just saying, and I certainly apologize and do not wish to dampen your enthusiasm or efforts thus far.
Wheelchair Bob
The desiccant jar is on the intake side (atmospheric pressure), not the pressurized side (3000 psi) thus nary a problem. But your observation serves as a primer of what not to do.
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WOW. I received the motor yesterday. The motor looks brand new. So, I have been thinking about mounting the pump the opposite of everybody's design meaning turning the pump up-side down so that the output of the pump is on top. This way I can make a gun holder on the pump frame so I don't have to lay the gun on the ground like everyone else without extending the feed line from the pump.
Can anyone think of any reserves not to pump upside down?
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WOW. I received the motor yesterday. The motor looks brand new. So, I have been thinking about mounting the pump the opposite of everybody's design meaning turning the pump up-side down so that the output of the pump is on top. This way I can make a gun holder on the pump frame so I don't have to lay the gun on the ground like everyone else without extending the feed line from the pump.
Can anyone think of any reserves not to pump upside down?
I would think the arm swing and keeping the hose from tangling up in the arm and or kinking the hose would be a major problem.
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I mean the pump completely upside down. The motor (Pump handle side) and the rotation would be on the bottom instead of the top.
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I mean the pump completely upside down. The motor (Pump handle side) and the rotation would be on the bottom instead of the top.
You will have to take in careful consideration the stiffness of the fill hose in any position you mount the pump, it ain't flexible.
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Almost done. I am having a couple strength issues at the crank connected to the motor. Just need to reinforce a couple things and it looks like bobs your uncle. I did do a trial pump with it using a 12V dc car battery and was able to pump from 2000psi to 2700 psi nice and smoothly at 15 rpms. Motor is super strong, not stalling at all. Had to stop there before something broke.
Mounting the pump upside down really seems to be a good idea for me. Just need to make a holder for the gun on the stand.
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Pic of pump
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Pic of pump
Nice job! I hope you get the safety bugs ironed out. I myself figured around 2Kpsi up to 3Kpsi is when things really need to be beefed up.
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Thanks RMM. Doesn't look pretty and never will but should work just fine.
I think I figured out a cheap power supply now. Supposedly you can take a desktop PC power supply and turn it into a regulated power supply that should be capable of 20 amps at 12vdc. Looks like they only go for $10 to $20 on EBay.
Steel was less than $50 , motor was less than $30, and power supply should be around $15. Not bad on cost and actually not to bad on the build. I truly have no idea why anyone is not building these contraptions and selling them here in the US on the cheap.
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Thanks RMM. Doesn't look pretty and never will but should work just fine.
Function over form, I am.
I think I figured out a cheap power supply now. Supposedly you can take a desktop PC power supply and turn it into a regulated power supply that should be capable of 20 amps at 12vdc. Looks like they only go for $10 to $20 on EBay.
Interesting.
Steel was less than $50 , motor was less than $30, and power supply should be around $15. Not bad on cost and actually not to bad on the build. I truly have no idea why anyone is not building these contraptions and selling them here in the US on the cheap.
Someone has to be first and if it all comes together for ya you just might be the first. Do you have an infrared thermometer? It might come in handy monitoring the power supply so you don't let the smoke out. Lucas, The Lord of Dark says. :D
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Did a little reinforcing today and it looks like 1" square tubing starts to flex at 2750psi. It's close to the 3000 psi mark but seeing the tubing flex a little bit didn't seem to be safe.
Maybe some angle iron along the 1" square tubing will stop the flex and get it to the 3000 psi mark.
I can't stop thinking about cutting the pump in half and making something small and portable. It may take more pumps to get the same psi but when a motor is doing the pumping I guess it really doesn't matter.
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Received the ATX 600 watt power supply last night and hard wired the 12v side. Supposedly the 12v side should hit 24amps. Well, I don't have an amp meter but the power supply was able to run the pump up to 2000psi and then the current overload shuts off the power supply. "dang", should have got a larger power supply.
Anyway, I charged from 1000psi to 2000psi 5 times and another 5 or so times from 1200psi to 1500psi to re-tune the marauder.
The battery definitely works better than the power supply. I'll probably just get a small tractor battery for charging greater than 2000psi.
Still need to make a gun holder and mount the power supply permanently.
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Shorty.. why on earth are you trying to run a 24V system on 12V??? that's the short cut to Burn Out City
for DC the math is really simple...work is called watts and watts = amps x volts
if you keep the work (watts) the same, changing voltage also changes amperage in such a way that doubling voltage reduces amps by half..
1200watts = 12Volts x 100Amps.....OR..... 1200watts = 24Volts x 50Amps
in circuit design Amps governs wire size with more Amps needing bigger wires...by running your 24Volt system at 12Volts you are risking overloading the wires...
the smaller the wire in relation to the amps trying to get through the wire the more resistance goes up, resistance creates heat, which increases resistance, which creates heat and if not limited or controlled causes bad smelling expensive smoke to pout out said wires..
easiest way to get 24 volts at the amperage you can use.....is to get 2 big 12Volt deep cycle batteries...
take the first battery and hook it's negative terminal up to your system, then hook that battery's positive terminal to the negative terminal on the second battery and use the second battery's positive terminal to power your system...
use a car battery charger to recharge them one at a time.....OR you can take the link wire between the two batteries out and use two chargers
one for each battery...
that will be much cheaper than trying to find a 120Vac source to 24Volt DC power supply that will supply enough amperage to power your system without voltage dropping off as amperage increases (EI..as the motor starts to work more when the pressure rises)
bottom line....by using big batteries you get
TRUE DC power, which dc circuits just love compared to the mess that comes out of most cheap high amp AC source power supplies when they are pushed hard...a decent computer power supply these days costs $200 and puts out 1500watts (many will argue the point, but talk to a high end graphics quality gamer, WE know big computer power like only few others do)
AND LOTS OF IT....honestly when I am ding something that take more time than just starting a car, I use electric forklift batteries, no lie, can provide pics of the setup I use to start my bike when it gets grumpy...a 1foot by 3foot forklift battery and and welding machine ground cable jumpers that BOLT DOWN on both ends....not power loss allowed here!
EASY TO RECHARGE....a car charger or two... get to know the what the lights or meters mean and maybe get a small cheap meter to use to check voltages and a few tips on how it to use to learn about your batteries...
EASY TO HOOK UP....hey just three wires, one to the motor, one from the motor and one between the batteries....with ONLY TWO things ot pay attention to, ALL the wires need to be sized to match the motors demand for power and you have to get the polarity right...when that's hard to do...
ELECTRICAL CAUTIONARY TIP....
one other thing WHATEVER YOU DO get a handheld infrared thermometer gun thing...ANYTHING that wire or connection that get's over 110F on a 80F day is pushing the limits on being loose or over loaded...
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Thanks for the info hyspd.
I figured I was going to pull more than 20amps at 12volts. I just thought it wouldn't be so prematurely. The reason for the 12 volts was to slow the motor from 30 rpm to 15 rpm without any additional gear reduction. As far as I know, that's how dc motors and motor controls work.
The motor is rated at 23amps and the power supply has a current limit shut off at 24amps. Figured that would save the motor and power supply at that combination.
As you can tell, the pump contraption is the same concept as everyone's else. I just wanted to see if I could do it a little different than anyone else. Like the pump upside down so the gun is not on the ground and using a dc motor instead of ac motor without any additional pulleys or gear reduction besides what's on the motor. Lastly, make the build for less than $100.
I will most likely go the battery route soon along with the 24v at 30rpm. I really need 3000psi.
I still can't stop thinking about chopping the pump in half. For some reason it makes sense to me. Someone please talk me about of it.
If I am thinking correctly, half the pump should take the same amount of force to pump at any given PSI but, the leverage of the pump crank arm is half as well which decreases the amount of torque needed from the motor. This should mean that you wouldn't need a 1/2 horse motor @ 100:1. With that being said it may be possible to get a smaller motor and make the whole contraption much smaller and portable. Maybe small enough to be able to bring the contraption with you in the truck. When you need to fill, all you do is plug it into your cigarette lighter.
Stupid pumps. All I can say so far, I envy all you guys with the money for real compressors. Today was the most I ever shot the marauder ( in one session) because i didn't have to pump. It really felt good to not pump and made shooting more pleasurable.
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;) ;D Shorty I'm not sure how old you are but if my guess is correct I would be happy to trade my money for your youth. Unless we are born with a silver spoon while raising a family and buying houses leaves you short on cash until 40 or so unless you do like me and start over from zero at 52. I'm 68 this December and have only gotten to the more money than needs part in the last 5 years
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Yup, money ain't everything if you don't have your health and happiness. No silver spoon here. I am very blessed with two healthy kids ( 6 and 8 ) , a hard working wife and being employed at the same place of employment for the past 22 years. She works at night and I work during the day.
Even though I am 41 this year, I too think of youth. Although, I think about retirement more now than ever while trying to keep my health. My father and father in law are 66 and 67. Both of those guys still work full time. They don't need to work, they just work. I really have no idea why they do this.
I used to have all the cool toys in my 20's and early 30's. The cool toys are now gone and the focus is on the kids. Soon, the kids will grow up and maybe I can have the cool toys again.
As far as the money, my family will always be frugal and innovated. I see it in my son and daughter already. They remind me of my youth everyday.
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;D Yup! Family first, kids then wife then self that has always been my priority and no regrets. My 41 y/o son has the same ethic so I guess I did something right. Both my step-sons are good kids 17 and 21 y/o and hard workers so I guess now I can afford to look at more play time and a little less work ;D ;)
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;D Yup! Family first, kids then wife then self that has always been my priority and no regrets. My 41 y/o son has the same ethic so I guess I did something right. Both my step-sons are good kids 17 and 21 y/o and hard workers so I guess now I can afford to look at more play time and a little less work ;D ;)
Good for you Don. It's our time now. Betty Lou and I enjoy every minute we have together of everyday and live each one as if it were the last.
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Good thread! here's my take on pumping;
If you are new to PCPs and don't have an unlimited budget you're gonna be pumping. Or just not shooting. So we pump away and it's not that bad with a good pump (Hill in my case) and low fill sounds really good unless high fill is your real need.
I consider the Mrod a "standard" fill pressure if tuned for it's maximum potential and your top off pressure is around 3000 psi and topped off from your end pressure whatever that may be. The tune I worked out for myself is 20 shots starting from 2900 and shot down to 2200 psi and then a process begins; Get rifle on ground to reach a hose from the pump that is way too short and stiff (foam pad helps here) and pump in even and steady full strokes until filled. For me that's an average of 3.5 strokes per shot. It takes about 8 pumps to prime the hose and get on the inlet valve and then the effort climbs steadily. So slightly less than 75 strokes overall on average.
I'm 47 years old and work construction so pumping through to the end pressure is not a problem but by the 50th stroke there's some work being done and your gonna "warm up" by fill time, if you want those next 20 shots to count you have to wait a bit to settle down to not waste pellets. Both pumping and cool down eat into your time that you have available. A good reference to effort is; my son weighs 150#s and can suspend himself on the pump handle at 2600 psi.
Enter the tank and it takes more time to load 1 clip than charge the rifle! Night and day difference, all day.
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;D Hand Pump is an ok back up fill but compressor and tank makes the whole process much better then it is open valve fill rifle load magazines shoot and repeat no need to wait for pulse to go back to normal. Much better and way more fun, just burn through pellets much faster ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Yup, money ain't everything if you don't have your health and happiness. No silver spoon here. I am very blessed with two healthy kids ( 6 and 8 ) , a hard working wife and being employed at the same place of employment for the past 22 years. She works at night and I work during the day.
Even though I am 41 this year, I too think of youth. Although, I think about retirement more now than ever while trying to keep my health. My father and father in law are 66 and 67. Both of those guys still work full time. They don't need to work, they just work. I really have no idea why they do this.
I used to have all the cool toys in my 20's and early 30's. The cool toys are now gone and the focus is on the kids. Soon, the kids will grow up and maybe I can have the cool toys again.
As far as the money, my family will always be frugal and innovated. I see it in my son and daughter already. They remind me of my youth everyday.
You've got your priorities in order shorty.
As far as your ingenuity I applaud it, but don't let the smoke out. ;)
The closest I've came to a low pressure 1.5K DC light weight mechanized fill pump was my mentioned 12VDC winch as a driver. BUT!! I can hand pump up to 1.5K from 1K very easy. For in the field, hunting, plinking or target shooting I did another rsterne project and setup a 22ci Guerilla tank with a 1.5K Ninja regulator and a fill whip that can fit in a backpack, this is sweet and best of all no pumping.
Please keep us informed on your project and please keep us informed of its outcome.
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I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.
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I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.
I remember when I was young and this kid in my villiage was doing crazy things. Everyone thought something was wrong with him. They would walk past his house and yell things like... "Ben, you crazy boy, you better stop fooling with that lightning like that. Why don't you just take a match and light the oil lamp like the rest of us before you get hurt!"
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I scanned all these posts and can't for the life of me understand what you guys are doing all this for. You are spending lots go build Rube Goldgerg devices to automate a pump that won't hold up anyway. If the goal is to stop having to pump up your gun why don't you just get an 88 cu ft tank and get it filled to 4500 psi and be done. I filled mine a couple of months ago and it is still at 3900 psi. Even if it were a longer than 30 mile drive to get filled for me it would be worth it. Hook the gun up, turn the valve and 30 seconds later its ready to shoot.
Because we can. Velle est posse.
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;D Many of us on this forum love to tinker and building a better mouse trap just goes with the territory. Keep on building , if we quit looking to make things better we will become stagnant and no joy there ;) ;D ;D
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Wow is all I can say. I can't stop thinking of building and selling. I just seen a post the other day of an older gentleman talking about pcp fill and 1500 to 2000 psi is just about what he can handle with his bum leg or hip or something. These are the people that need it and can't afford the expensive compressors ( our friends )
guys,
I got lucky with the 24vdc 600# in" right angle drive motor ($22). Running this motor on 12 volts (battery) brings it to 15 rpm and I can get to 2700 psi without any stalling of the motor. The reason why I stop at 2700psi with the battery is because the 1" tubing begins to flex ( should have used 2" tubing).
If I had a way to place a video I would. It works and I haven't hand pumped since. Not only that, it is quite. Not like the ones you hear on youtube.
I have to give my father credit because he gave me a good idea to use one of those car jump starter packs. Charger and battery in one. The PC power supply works great if you only want to go to 2000psi. Last week I actually connected my compressor to the pump (75psi) and filled my friends guppy paint ball tank to 2000psi in just under an hour and a half from empty ( no kidding). Ofcourse stopping to cool every once in a while.
My build cost me a couple weekends ( maybe 2 or 4 hrs a weekend) and under $100 to do.
Iam desperately looking for cheap motors to do builds like this. The latest motor I found was this ( http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd)).
Perfect motor and gear ratio but 208v or 220v usually doesn't go over well. But for the price of the motor and the steel, a build like this could be just about $100 cost.
I was also considering using one of those cheap engine stands from harbor freight (metal work already done ) and only $50 bucks.
Believe me, my contraption is a piece of &^^&, but it works. I think that's all it matters. If someone can help me post a video, I'll try it.
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Wow is all I can say. I can't stop thinking of building and selling. I just seen a post the other day of an older gentleman talking about pcp fill and 1500 to 2000 psi is just about what he can handle with his bum leg or hip or something. These are the people that need it and can't afford the expensive compressors ( our friends )
guys,
I got lucky with the 24vdc 600# in" right angle drive motor ($22). Running this motor on 12 volts (battery) brings it to 15 rpm and I can get to 2700 psi without any stalling of the motor. The reason why I stop at 2700psi with the battery is because the 1" tubing begins to flex ( should have used 2" tubing).
If I had a way to place a video I would. It works and I haven't hand pumped since. Not only that, it is quite. Not like the ones you hear on youtube.
I have to give my father credit because he gave me a good idea to use one of those car jump starter packs. Charger and battery in one. The PC power supply works great if you only want to go to 2000psi. Last week I actually connected my compressor to the pump (75psi) and filled my friends guppy paint ball tank to 2000psi in just under an hour and a half from empty ( no kidding). Ofcourse stopping to cool every once in a while.
My build cost me a couple weekends ( maybe 2 or 4 hrs a weekend) and under $100 to do.
Iam desperately looking for cheap motors to do builds like this. The latest motor I found was this ( http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd (http://www.surpluscenter.com/Brands/Bison/8-4-RPM-230-VAC-1-6-HP-BISON-GEARMOTOR-5-1505.axd)).
Perfect motor and gear ratio but 208v or 220v usually doesn't go over well. But for the price of the motor and the steel, a build like this could be just about $100 cost.
I was also considering using one of those cheap engine stands from harbor freight (metal work already done ) and only $50 bucks.
Believe me, my contraption is a piece of &^^&, but it works. I think that's all it matters. If someone can help me post a video, I'll try it.
You just keep on doing what you're doing. I feel ya.
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;) :D At the end of the day it is all about having fun and if part of the fun is building an affordable high pressure pump have at it and enjoy the accomplishment. The folks who question ingenuity of others have limited imaginations and need to applaud not detract.
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Borrowed my wifes google account to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vg_4KqMbk8&list=HL1399498025&feature=mh_lolz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vg_4KqMbk8&list=HL1399498025&feature=mh_lolz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROLCyQBNk0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROLCyQBNk0&feature=youtu.be)
Part 1 is with the PC power supply from around 1500psi to 2000 psi before current overload shut the power supply off.
Part 2 is using a very old battery that barely holds a charge ( 2000 psi to 2700psi ) I stopped the video before 2700psi but wanted to prove it goes well over 2000psi.
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Shorty,
Nice videos ...
Looks like you can apply for an Australian patent! ;)
Seriously, the weight of the motor at the base of the unit is a great idea! 8)
Cheers,
Smoketown
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;D Great design Shorty I works and does exactly what you desire and more importantly you can shoot without clearing the sweat from your eyes and waiting for your pulse to calm down 8) ;D
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I like these two ideas combined, boosting the hand pump with a portable air tank and using extra leverage on the hand pump. Great ideas, I just might try this !
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Borrowed my wifes google account to do this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vg_4KqMbk8&list=HL1399498025&feature=mh_lolz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Vg_4KqMbk8&list=HL1399498025&feature=mh_lolz)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROLCyQBNk0&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uROLCyQBNk0&feature=youtu.be)
Part 1 is with the PC power supply from around 1500psi to 2000 psi before current overload shut the power supply off.
Part 2 is using a very old battery that barely holds a charge ( 2000 psi to 2700psi ) I stopped the video before 2700psi but wanted to prove it goes well over 2000psi.
Thanks for the video! I think!!
I don't need this I get scuba fills free. But, I have tube steel, angle iron, steel plate, batteries and a smart charger and some free time.
If I can get a motor and bearings real cheap. I may build one anyway... Just because. ;)
Also for a non grid cabin or long truck camping trip it should not be to hard to power this with an old bicycle. Just need the right size sprocket in place of the rear wheel. And you could use your legs to pump.
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Well I've been at it again!! This time I took one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/winches/2000-lb-marine-electric-winch-61237.html (http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/winches/2000-lb-marine-electric-winch-61237.html) (I got it on sale for $40 a few years ago) and made the below. It will pump up to 3000psi@19rpm and fill a 13ci bottle with a break or two and that's it. LOL!!
I though I'd post this pump setup just to see if it would create ideas for anyone to come up with a feasible 12VDC hand pump assist as this is the closest I've come to an economical way to do so. The duty cycle on the winch is low as well as the construction so longevity is in question but I'll use it till it dies. ;D I've had the motor up to 120F, stopped and let it cool down. One thing I can say is this would be the cat's meow for 1500psi fills on let's say a FDPCP and with that said I think it would last quite awhile. One thing that would make this more reliable would be a motor rewind(?) to make it more efficient but rewinding is way out of my job skills so if someone has any info on if it is feasible and cost effective.
Let your creative juices flow!!
UPDATE!!!
The gear teeth are to soft and the larger gear, the one with the arm, on the output side sheared its teeth. This is a no go. :'(
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3723_zps456c4613.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3723_zps456c4613.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3726_zps70228b35.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3726_zps70228b35.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3725_zpsc7006e7e.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3725_zpsc7006e7e.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3727_zps8ed19d12.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3727_zps8ed19d12.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3728_zps26b62a56.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3728_zps26b62a56.jpg.html)
(http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa86/madmike77_photos/IMG_3724_zps7df42fd0.jpg) (http://s202.photobucket.com/user/madmike77_photos/media/IMG_3724_zps7df42fd0.jpg.html)
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Great work RMM....
Now that's what I call tinkering.You have some nice aluminum stock there. Where you getting all your metal at ?
I finally bought a car jump starter at harbor freight to power mine ($40). Works great because it has a on/off switch and built in charger.
My Benji pump finally took a dump and now I am on a quest to start figuring out how to chop it up to make a pump package in half the size or smaller. So in theory, if the pump has half the stroke or less, the motors gets cheaper (much cheaper). Don't need that 600 lbs per inch.
So Iam on the fence as to place my motorized pump thing up for sale or trade for a hill pump while I am tinkering with the benji pump. Just not sure if it would sell and I don't want to be responsible if someone gets hurt using it.
Another funny thing, I have been charging from 1500 psi to 3000psi with no cool down periods. I bought those cut to length formable cooler packs and wrap it around the main cylinder. And no, this aint why the pump failed. Pump was on it's way out before motorizing it. It sure keeps the pump cool though.
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Great work RMM....
Now that's what I call tinkering.You have some nice aluminum stock there. Where you getting all your metal at ?
I finally bought a car jump starter at harbor freight to power mine ($40). Works great because it has a on/off switch and built in charger.
My Benji pump finally took a dump and now I am on a quest to start figuring out how to chop it up to make a pump package in half the size or smaller. So in theory, if the pump has half the stroke or less, the motors gets cheaper (much cheaper). Don't need that 600 lbs per inch.
So Iam on the fence as to place my motorized pump thing up for sale or trade for a hill pump while I am tinkering with the benji pump. Just not sure if it would sell and I don't want to be responsible if someone gets hurt using it.
Another funny thing, I have been charging from 1500 psi to 3000psi with no cool down periods. I bought those cut to length formable cooler packs and wrap it around the main cylinder. And no, this aint why the pump failed. Pump was on it's way out before motorizing it. It sure keeps the pump cool though.
Take a look at the UPDATE! I posted today. :'( Back to the drawing board she's dead!! ;D
I was actually trying to find something that was doable by the home DIY guys, especially for the ones with disabilities who want to shoot but have trouble pumping by hand plus try to keep it economical.
The aluminum I get here local and it was from another project that's why there's a herd of holes in it.
I wouldn't have sold my ATV winch pump setup and only would have posted the what for's and why not's here for someone to make themselves. Yep I'm also nervous about liability and wasn't going to take the chance.
I can't help ya on the pump in half thing because I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express lately. If you work out the kinks let us know as I for one will be tinkering with any economical and DIY way to help our disabled shooters.
I like your idea of cooling the pump and was thinking about extending the fins upward to give more cooling area, just haven't done it yet. If I've read correctly heat and moisture are two things that can wear these Benji pumps out. I believe my desiccant pack is helping the longevity of my pump in the moisture area but I'll have to give it a maintenance tear down to see. Something else on the list of things to do.. LOL!!
Keep the good stuff coming Shorty.
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My Benji pump finally took a dump and now I am on a quest to start figuring out how to chop it up to make a pump package in half the size or smaller. So in theory, if the pump has half the stroke or less, the motors gets cheaper (much cheaper). Don't need that 600 lbs per inch.
I'm not an expert on HPA pumps so this could be wrong but I think cutting it in half might limit the top pressure achievable and/or increase the number of strokes required more than exponentially. It would also limit the percent of time that the seals spend in the relatively cooler top portion of tube. If time to fill is not a concern (and it sounds like it's not), why not just gear the motor down enough so it requires less torque?
Make those gears (or sprockets) do the work!