GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: DaveInGA on February 16, 2014, 06:05:33 PM
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Hello all,
New member here. Found the forum doing some research on the QB78 Deluxe Air Rifle. I'm a gunsmith and love to shoot, but due to my work I seldom have time to shoot my own stuff any more. I ran across a Crosman 160 stock in a trade of some gun parts and decided to find it a new owner after I cleaned it up and refinished it.
During the above process, I learned of the QB78 chinese clone of the Crosman 160 from the mid to late fifties. I read about it and have gotten interested in it and researched it, leading me here. I'm thinking about buying the deluxe version and having it tuned up as much as possible related to trigger and performance by the shop I buy it from and having it shipped with a target box, pellets and spare parts/lube/cleaning stuff straight to my door.
Since I gunsmith and tons of firearms and firearms projects, I want something nice for myself that I DO NOT have to do anything to shoot right out of the box. I just want to pull it out, load it up and enjoy it without any extra work. So I'll be looking for recommendations on shops, upgrades, improvement kits, etc.
I do know I don't want to attach anything extra to the rifle to make it not look like a rifle, such as a big gas tank. I do know I want to use iron sights and at my age, the fiber optic sights really help me see. I do know I like a quality two stage trigger. I live in Northeast Georgia and it gets hot here in the summer, so gas lockup could be an issue, so I'd like to have that addressed before I get it, not after.
So hello all and I'm very open to suggestions/thoughts.
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Welcome to the GTA Dave! Lots to read on them here
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Welcome Dave glad u joined us ,u have very informative members that will lead u to the path u wanna go as for me i had a couple qb78d in .22 and tuned as well and glad i did cause it helped but out the box there good decent ag,s with very good accuratecy and lightweight as well ,fiber optics on a qb78 are purdy good ,on co2 canisters they could give u plenty of power shots i cant remember but i know 30 plus shots before velocity dropped ,good small game hunter out to 20yds from what i have taken which hasnt been much lol ,plenty spacing for modding these shooters ..could be upgraded to a reapeter with a 8 or 10 shot mag ,if u have or nieghboors have problem cause its loud u could get it tko shroud ... it will make it backyard friendlier ....Dave i liked mine very much and yes very very accurate so yes im waiting for the summer for some co2 ....get plenty of co2 cause its also a fun ag to shoot ....the man u want to speak too is Mike Melick from flying dragon airguns he know his way around this type of ag and tunes them as well great man he is as well to talk too ...Dave check out our china gate theres more info on qb78d,s ....enjoy and shoot safe ....jorge
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If you just want to slap on a scope and have fun with CO2, then getting a fully-tuned QB from Mike at Flying Dragon seems like a good option. I got my dad's QB from him, but converted to HPA with a 1100psi bottle.
I have heard great things about Roy at Mountain Air, but have never had the fortune to shoot one of his guns. If you want to dig into the guts a little more, Roy might be your man. Mike is definitely the best value and bang-for-your-buck, but I was told that Roy will fine-tune a little more, if that's what you want.
You can't go wrong with either, and I wouldn't really look at anything else unless you _do_ want to do some work, yourself.
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Welcome to the GTA. :D
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the open sights and trigger on the deluxe are very good, i did get mine from the same source you mentioned and it shot great right out of the box. they are great guns that hit where you're aiming but they are not without their faults . just remember that they are gas powered and not powder burner and accept that seals will need to be replaced sometimes. mine developed problems over the 3 years or so that ive had it and i think i ve replaced almost every part on the gun. OH, and dont skip the pelgun oil on every 2nd or 3rd cartridge. i got lazy and that probably lead to my seals early demise. I've not had a problem with valve lock but did notice weaker shots above 95 degrees.
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Mike at Flying Dragon Airguns may not be bringing in the QB rifles. He has had some problems with the company shipping new airguns to him. You need to talk to him directly be that he may have some but I don't see any on his website. At this time he is selling a XS60C PCP .177 or .22 air rifle for $100. If you need a pump that would be another $140. He also offers an extra barrel for $20 so you can change calibers. Pump and rifle would be with free shipping to the 48 states. You could run the rifle on a bulk fill CO2 if you wanted to. But by saying that he also is selling a first generation XS60C for $70 that can use two 12 gr CO2 cartridges or bulk fill. I don't own a QB but it does look to have a better trigger set up. But you may be happy with a tuned XS60C with a $100 extra full tune. JMO
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Hi John,
Some answers in the quote below.
Man as a smith it seems you'd be dying to get inside one-something new :DNormally I do like getting inside something new, especially if it's something built/designed well. But currently, in addition to my normal load of Revolvers and 1911's, I have the following guns of my own that are projects I'm trying to finish: A Eddystone M1917 I'm doing a full restore on, a Springfield/Remington 1903A3 I'm restoring/repairing/refinishing and putting in a NOS (new old stock) C-stock, a Remington 510 I'm restoring, a 1903A3 butt stock and hand guard I'm repairing/refinishing, a high cap 1911 I'm customizing/refinishing, an H&R break action .22 revolver I'm rebuilding/repairing/refinishing and a couple AR15 receivers I need to build up for friends. So when it comes to gun type work, I'm buried right now.
- but sure do see the "want to shoot out of the box".I hate to admit it, but because I can repair/refinish/restore firearms, I've bought way to many "rough projects." For once and because I'm short on time lately, I want a nice rifle I can shoot around the house at targets and maybe reduce the neighborhood squirrel population, which due to lack of predators, is getting out of hand and becoming pesky about running the roof of the house.
The QB is one of the best values in air rifles, and hoepfully you know Mike Melick of flyingdragonairrifles (on the main page) is the person you want to purchase from. Lowest price, best work, and a true lifetime quarente. I'm reading good things about him on this forum a couple others. I've read though, that he's having trouble getting the QB. He does have another rifle I'm moderately interested in, but not sure if it is the way I want to go. I'm pretty traditional in my tastes, though at my age, I need fiber optic or a scope to see the sights.
I didnt think much of the QB's years ago, but the price looked nice, oredered from Mike, great guy to talk with on the phone, told him I wanted ALL the power I could get and the trigger as light as it could go. Now back then his price was almost $250 (with the tuning) lower than it should be - too good to be true- but I got a full 20fpe running on carts on HOT days and a trigger any civilian would think was match grade.That sounds promising. It gets very hot here in Northeast GA (Jefferson) in the summer and I've shot a lot of High Power in the past, did pretty well and can definitely appreciate a good two stage tuned trigger. I'm good at tuning a trigger and could do the one on the gun, but any time I spent doing it is time take away from paying customer's triggers/guns.
I did have a seal on it leak once, called Mike he offered to repair it or send said seal and walk me through fixing it. So easy to work on I accepted his free of charge repair part.Good to hear of a man that stands behind his products.
Read a bunch on the forum(s) about dealers and tunners, Mike will be the only one with zero complaints.That's tough to do, because there's always someone out there that's hard to make happy, some even if they were hung with a new rope would complain. Me, if I hire another man to do gun work myself, I may ask him questions related to his areas of expertise to learn more about guns via email he can answer at his leisure, but I'll never ask him when the gun is ready.
And, welcome to the forum.Thank you
John
Oh and "I" like my QB bottle rifle also, over 70 shots with an extreme fps spread of 7! Pretty hard to buy small bore match ammo that will give you those #'s.True, though I do have a CZ 453 with double set factory trigger and that thing will shoot some of the medium grade ammo about as good as the premium match ammo.
Dave
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Jorge, some responses in the quote
Welcome Dave glad u joined us Thank you
,u have very informative members that will lead u to the path u wanna gogood to hear
as for me i had a couple qb78d in .22 and tuned as well and glad i did cause it helped but out the box there good decent ag,s with very good accuratecy and lightweight as well Sounds like what I'm looking for.
,fiber optics on a qb78 are purdy good ,on co2 canisters they could give u plenty of power shots i cant remember but i know 30 plus shots before velocity dropped That's quite a few shots for me, most times I doubt I'll have time to shoot more than 10-20 shots a session at best.
,good small game hunter out to 20yds from what i have taken which hasnt been much lolDo you think the .177 might be a better caliber for squirrels vs. the .22? I remember hunting squirrels with a Daisy pneumatic pump when I was a kid. Not quite enough oomph at ten pumps, but then I was 14 and shooting squirrels in the tops of pine trees. Probably a bit too far a range. But I was hitting them in the head with the iron sights consistently and killed several.
,plenty spacing for modding these shooters ..could be upgraded to a reapeter with a 8 or 10 shot mag The only thing I don't like about the repeaters is you have to use a scope and if I can, I'd rather not use a scope, though I may be forced to at age 54 due to eyesight issues.
,if u have or nieghboors have problem cause its loud u could get it tko shroud ... it will make it backyard friendlierI do have neighbors, one on my left is two heavy, not good looking, not friendly, very liberal women. One on my wife is a single woman who works as a cop. She's friendly and has two daughters who come and go living there. I doubt the cop crowd would be bothered by an air rifle. The other two, who knows. Neighbor across the street is an outdoor type.
...get plenty of co2 cause its also a fun ag to shoot I think I'm going to order the big pacs off of amazon or ebay or some such.
....the man u want to speak too is Mike Melick from flying dragon airguns he know his way around this type of ag and tunes them as well great man he is as well to talk too Second recommendation for Mike.
...Dave check out our china gate theres more info on qb78d,s Thanks, I've been reading there.
Dave
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Drew, some responses in the quote
If you just want to slap on a scope and have fun with CO2, then getting a fully-tuned QB from Mike at Flying Dragon seems like a good option. I got my dad's QB from him, but converted to HPA with a 1100psi bottle.I do want the CO2 and though the big bottles look more convenient, I'm not yet warmed up to having a big bottle hanging off the front of my rifle.
I have heard great things about Roy at Mountain Air, but have never had the fortune to shoot one of his guns. If you want to dig into the guts a little more, Roy might be your man. Mike is definitely the best value and bang-for-your-buck, but I was told that Roy will fine-tune a little more, if that's what you want.Not sure right now. I know when I do a firearm for myself, I tend to go "all the way." That said, time is what's keeping me from doing my own.
You can't go wrong with either, and I wouldn't really look at anything else unless you _do_ want to do some work, yourself.Good information, thank you. Mountain air is only about an hour's drive away from me through some pretty nice looking country. May have to go visit him.
Dave
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Steve, responses in the quote
the open sights and trigger on the deluxe are very good,Was your trigger right out of the box or tuned?
i did get mine from the same source you mentioned and it shot great right out of the box.good to hear
they are great guns that hit where you're aiming but they are not without their faults . just remember that they are gas powered and not powder burner and accept that seals will need to be replaced sometimes.I had that figured in, but also figured I'm not going to shoot it enough to wear them out, so drying out may be more of a problem.
mine developed problems over the 3 years or so that ive had it and i think i ve replaced almost every part on the gun. Did you start with the stock gun and tune/upgrade it later? I was thinking of having some upgrades done before delivery.
OH, and dont skip the pelgun oil on every 2nd or 3rd cartridge. i got lazy and that probably lead to my seals early demise. I've not had a problem with valve lock but did notice weaker shots above 95 degrees.I've read on the seals. I wonder if there's a "too much" and a "too little" all at the same time.
Dave
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Kailua, responses in quote
Mike at Flying Dragon Airguns may not be bringing in the QB rifles. He has had some problems with the company shipping new airguns to him. Now that's some bad news. I hope he resolves that.
You need to talk to him directly be that he may have some but I don't see any on his website.I saw that too.
At this time he is selling a XS60C PCP .177 or .22 air rifle for $100. A good price I think.
If you need a pump that would be another $140.What is a pump? Sorry, I'm a newb at air guns.
He also offers an extra barrel for $20 so you can change calibers.Now that's interesting.
Pump and rifle would be with free shipping to the 48 states.a good thing
You could run the rifle on a bulk fill CO2 if you wanted to. But by saying that he also is selling a first generation XS60C for $70 that can use two 12 gr CO2 cartridges or bulk fill. I don't own a QB but it does look to have a better trigger set up.That is a good option to look at. thank you
But you may be happy with a tuned XS60C with a $100 extra full tune. JMOI'm going to have to learn what an extra full tune is before I'll know that.
Dave
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Take a look in the vendors gate under Flying Dragon Airguns. When this $100 PCP rifle came out there is a lot of info being passed on back and forth among the members.
As for tuning there is Mike Melick's explanation on his website. If you like call him direct. From what I have read from customers talking to him is a pleasant experience.
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Steve, responses in the quote
the open sights and trigger on the deluxe are very good,Was your trigger right out of the box or tuned?
i did get mine from the same source you mentioned and it shot great right out of the box.good to hear
they are great guns that hit where you're aiming but they are not without their faults . just remember that they are gas powered and not powder burner and accept that seals will need to be replaced sometimes.I had that figured in, but also figured I'm not going to shoot it enough to wear them out, so drying out may be more of a problem.
mine developed problems over the 3 years or so that ive had it and i think i ve replaced almost every part on the gun. Did you start with the stock gun and tune/upgrade it later? I was thinking of having some upgrades done before delivery.
OH, and dont skip the pelgun oil on every 2nd or 3rd cartridge. i got lazy and that probably lead to my seals early demise. I've not had a problem with valve lock but did notice weaker shots above 95 degrees.I've read on the seals. I wonder if there's a "too much" and a "too little" all at the same time.
Dave
i did get the "tune kit" but i put it in myself.that consists of the bolt with extended probe. other than that it was a stock "deluxe"with stock valve. the gold trigger is very adjustable. i would never use the word "crisp" but its not squishy like my 2260 was. im real fussy about triggers and this is one you can work with. i didnt shoot it for a while and it started leaking like crazy so i gave it the "pelgunoil treatment" worked fine . after that i oiled every cartridge and that was too much i guess, thats when i had to start replacing everything. the good thing about mike is if you need seals, he'll just drop them in the mail for you no charge. the other will charge you. but since mike cant get the 78 anymore i think archer is the only game in town. all in all though its a 150 dollar gun thats given me years of enjoyment.
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Steve, stuff in quote again.
i did get the "tune kit" but i put it in myself.that consists of the bolt with extended probe. other than that it was a stock "deluxe"with stock valve.If you had to do it over again at the start, what would you put in that you did not?
the gold trigger is very adjustable. i would never use the word "crisp" but its not squishy like my 2260 was. im real fussy about triggers and this is one you can work with.Do you think these chinese triggers would respond well to standard gunsmithing tuning, such as stoning to remove machining burrs, better springs, etc?
i didnt shoot it for a while and it started leaking like crazy so i gave it the "pelgunoil treatment" worked fine . after that i oiled every cartridge and that was too much i guess, thats when i had to start replacing everything.I'm guessing the o-rings were standard rubber ones made in china, so at first they dried out, then when you over-oiled them, they dissolved. O-rings made of other, better materials could be a solution to greatly extend their life I'm guessing.
the good thing about mike is if you need seals, he'll just drop them in the mail for you no charge. the other will charge you.Are the free ones the same as the o-rings that come with the gun? Is it possible to buy "upgrade" o-ring kits?
but since mike cant get the 78 anymore i think @=S+S%^$# is the only game in town.Well, there's the guy in Georgia an hour's drive away, but I don't have time to drive there right now. I'm wondering why there are so few retailers of these rifles. Is it that way with all air guns or just the chinese manufactured ones?
all in all though its a 150 dollar gun thats given me years of enjoyment.Which is what I'm looking for. How long have you owned yours?
Dave
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Welcome to the GTA.
Richard
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Hi Dave and welcome to GTA. I have the QB 78 in .177 and the QB 79d in .22. both came with upgrades. IN the 60 degree temperature range the 78 with the xp kit shoots 750 fps and is pretty picky on the pellet it likes. The 79d in .22 caliber has the xp kit, HDD and tuned valve shoots in 650 fps range with Crosman 14.3 gr HP and is not picky when it comes to pellets. The trigger and the fiber optic sights on the 79d are by far the best way to go between the two rifles for shooting out of the box. Good luck with what ever you choose, happy shooting.
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Mike should have some left, but when they're gone, they're gone. Don't worry about support: Mike is a rare find, these days, and stands behind everything that goes through his door.
Personally, I would call him. He takes calls while at the bench, and all conversations are great. He won't fiddle-fart around, and will cover everything he does.
You can upgrade rings to milspec materials that stand up to CO2, better. Tim at Mac1 is the fussiest, most stubborn guy about that, and is a perfect resource.
If you're a trigger-fiend, you can definitely tune the trigger more than you'll get, especially being a smith...
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I have the QB78 deluxe, QB79 and XS60c. I shoot the XS60c more than the QB's, it shoulders better and shoots harder than the modded QB's it cost me half of what I paid for the QB's 6 yrs ago.
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Steve, responses in the quote
the open sights and trigger on the deluxe are very good,Was your trigger right out of the box or tuned?
i did get mine from the same source you mentioned and it shot great right out of the box.good to hear
they are great guns that hit where you're aiming but they are not without their faults . just remember that they are gas powered and not powder burner and accept that seals will need to be replaced sometimes.I had that figured in, but also figured I'm not going to shoot it enough to wear them out, so drying out may be more of a problem.
mine developed problems over the 3 years or so that ive had it and i think i ve replaced almost every part on the gun. Did you start with the stock gun and tune/upgrade it later? I was thinking of having some upgrades done before delivery.
OH, and dont skip the pelgun oil on every 2nd or 3rd cartridge. i got lazy and that probably lead to my seals early demise. I've not had a problem with valve lock but did notice weaker shots above 95 degrees.I've read on the seals. I wonder if there's a "too much" and a "too little" all at the same time.
Dave
i did get the "tune kit" but i put it in myself.that consists of the bolt with extended probe. other than that it was a stock "deluxe"with stock valve. the gold trigger is very adjustable. i would never use the word "crisp" but its not squishy like my 2260 was. im real fussy about triggers and this is one you can work with. i didnt shoot it for a while and it started leaking like crazy so i gave it the "pelgunoil treatment" worked fine . after that i oiled every cartridge and that was too much i guess, thats when i had to start replacing everything. the good thing about mike is if you need seals, he'll just drop them in the mail for you no charge. the other will charge you. but since mike cant get the 78 anymore i think @=S+S%^$# is the only game in town. all in all though its a 150 dollar gun thats given me years of enjoyment.
i get about 575 fps with super domes. the upgraded valve gets you 30 or 40 more fps. i didn't need it though. Mike can tune them up 700 fps i think. its a fun handy little plinker. if you want more power, id go to mike for sure. i wouldnt change anything i started with, I've had it 3 or 4 years, thousands of rounds. ive since added a scope , sling and cheek pad and a muzzle brake, its very quiet. i dont know about better orings, id bet every oring everywhere is made in china anyway. i think there is a lot one could do with the trigger. very easy to get to and take apart.
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Bigfish, responses in quote in red
Hi Dave and welcome to GTA. Thank you I have the QB 78 in .177 and the QB 79d in .22. both came with upgrades. Do you remember what upgrades? How far did you go with the upgrades? Whole hog or partial?
IN the 60 degree temperature range the 78 with the xp kit shoots 750 fps and is pretty picky on the pellet it likes. What is an XP kit? Sorry, I'm new and there's a lot of kits on these various websites.
The 79d in .22 caliber has the xp kit, HDD and tuned valve shoots in 650 fps range with Crosman 14.3 gr HP and is not picky when it comes to pellets. What is HDD? From my experience with casting lead bullets and various bores on various rifles, I'm guessing the barrel on this one has a tight groove diameter if one measured it against the average barrel. Be a good one to hang onto.
The trigger and the fiber optic sights on the 79d are by far the best way to go between the two rifles for shooting out of the box. Okay, I went and looked, but couldn't find a 79D, but found a 79 and a 78D, what's the difference? Is the trigger and fiber optic sights on the 79D the same as the 78D? What am I missing here?
Good luck with what ever you choose, happy shooting.Thank you, I'm thinking right now I want as fully tuned a rifle as I can get starting with the nicest base rifle I can get, so I'm leaning towards a 78D. I don't think I want the repeater, though loading .22 single shot may change my mind. I'm pretty sure my round count will be low, simply due to lack of time to shoot.
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Drew, responses in quote below
Mike should have some left, but when they're gone, they're gone. Don't worry about support: Mike is a rare find, these days, and stands behind everything that goes through his door.Spoke to Mike yesterday on the phone and unfortunately, they are gone and apparently he can no longer get any more. So I'll have to explore other options if I want a QB78D
Personally, I would call him. He takes calls while at the bench, and all conversations are great. He won't fiddle-fart around, and will cover everything he does.I did.
You can upgrade rings to milspec materials that stand up to CO2, better. Tim at Mac1 is the fussiest, most stubborn guy about that, and is a perfect resource. milspect material? Do you mean for the o-ring? I may want to do that, but I'm unsure the effect of CO2 when the rifle is stored "ready to shoot" more than it is shot.
If you're a trigger-fiend, you can definitely tune the trigger more than you'll get, especially being a smith...I'm a trigger fiend and do a lot of trigger jobs on a daily basis for revolvers and pistols, but on this gun, I'm wanting to pamper myself and have something tuned to the gills right out of the box, ready to go shoot and I don't mind paying another smith/tuner to take care of it for me. I like/love tuning, but am basically buried in customer guns and my own personal projects, trying to get the personal projects down now, hence my reluctance to add to the pile. I've got enough "tuneable/worn finish" guns in my collection right now.
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Bentong,
I have the QB78 deluxe, QB79 and XS60c. I shoot the XS60c more than the QB's, it shoulders better and shoots harder than the modded QB's it cost me half of what I paid for the QB's 6 yrs ago.
The XS60C was another rifle I became interested in since getting on the forums. Does the 60 you have come from the first or second generation? What upgrades have you had done to it?
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Steve, responses in the quote, again :D
i get about 575 fps with super domes. the upgraded valve gets you 30 or 40 more fps. i didn't need it though. What's a super dome? I'm guessing a type of pellet. Do you have any suggestions for selecting several batches of pellets to try and get a good fit in the .22 caliber version?
Mike can tune them up 700 fps i think. its a fun handy little plinker. if you want more power, id go to mike for sure. The biggest concern I have is making sure a squirrel I shoot in the head isn't just injured. I'm not big on unnecessary cruelty when shooting an animal. I prefer to shoot accurately and kill the first shot if at all possible. I used to hunt squirrels as a kid with the predecessor to the Daisy 880 pump .177 air rifle. It was accurate and I shot it very well (enough to shoot mistletoe out of trees for Mom at Christmas.), but it didn't have the mustard to consistently put the tree rats down hard.
i wouldnt change anything i started with, I've had it 3 or 4 years, thousands of rounds. ive since added a scope , sling and cheek pad and a muzzle brake, its very quiet.Quiet may ver well be an issue for me. Where and what muzzle brake did you get that quieted the rifle down? Have a link?
i dont know about better orings, id bet every oring everywhere is made in china anyway.There difference is in the material used. Some materials are much more resistant than rubber to other chemicals and will hold up better/longer. But they are also much more expensive, generally speaking.
i think there is a lot one could do with the trigger. very easy to get to and take apart.In the long run, I may very well do so if I'm not satisfied with it.
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sent you a pm
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I can't find the post where Tim explains the the reasoning behind the oring materials he uses with CO2... sorry.
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Bentong,
I have the QB78 deluxe, QB79 and XS60c. I shoot the XS60c more than the QB's, it shoulders better and shoots harder than the modded QB's it cost me half of what I paid for the QB's 6 yrs ago.
The XS60C was another rifle I became interested in since getting on the forums. Does the 60 you have come from the first or second generation? What upgrades have you had done to it?
Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs. I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL. My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c. I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots.
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LOL at the 2 fat liberal women neighbors.
One thing to note is the QB78D by default is a CO2 gun, which you know, but the XS60c is High Pressure Air (HPA) gun even though it uses a relatively low pressure tube - 800-1500psi recommended. That is why you need the hand pump, to pump in the pressurized air.
Welcome to the GTA, you started in the right place.
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[...] but the XS60c is High Pressure Air (HPA) gun even though it uses a relatively low pressure tube - 800-1500psi recommended.
Not true. The stock XS60c is a CO2 rifle that feeds on powerlets or bulk. The XS60c PCP is a rifle that has had the tube replaced with a PCP tube, but because the internals are all the same, the 1500psi fill is recommended.
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Thanks for clarifying. I was referring to the previous post where DaveinGA was asking about the pump and someone's recommendation for the XS60c PCP. Sorry to confuse. The PCP version is the one most people are keen on, since it is the cheapest option out there to break into the PCP market and with the low pressure fill requirements it is much easier to pump than the multitude of 3000psi guns out there, and vastly more so than the few and very expensive 4500psi guns.
DaveinGA, glad to have more NE GA folks around.
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Oh, sorry... too many variations of the same name! Haha.
Tying this back to the QB part of the thread, it is good to compare the two rifles, considering the application (squirrels in an urban environment).
The FDAR PCP is definitely a game-changer, and the value is simply amazing. Once the REAL mods start, I think we'll see some stupid-good efficiency and shot counts, still with a 1500psi fill. I'm waiting to see someone develop an exterior power wheel (hint, hint, OP! haha), as the multi-mag mod has already been proven. With all of that, an LDC, and a pump, you're rubbing shoulders with AA, FX, etc...
For the OP's sake, getting the PCP, pump, and an LDC will have him ready to go in a backyard-friendly manner, with the power question not even applicable, any more because either flavor will absolutely own any squirrels within range (in .177 or .22).
Pumping such a small tube to 1500 is an absolute joke, effort-wise: Pumping my s510 is redonkulous, compared to my dad's bottled QB, so I can only imagine pumping the 60c. This way, there's no more powerlets to buy, and you have the same velocity throughout the year.
The pump that Mike sells has actually had some changes for the better, as I can compare my dad's pump (bought a year ago) to the one I received last week. The hose now has an angled tube on one end, and comes with some extra hardware, it seems. I've been too busy with the baby to go outside and play, so I can't offer more than that.
It's definitely not a QB in looks or feel, but overall, I think it's definitely something to think about. As a gunsmith, I'm sure the OP can access all the Safe Queens he desires, so I'm thinking pure and simple hunting effectiveness.
Muddying the waters, there IS something about the stock QB's lines, balance, heft, and overall feel. I can't deny that. As a hunter, though, I look purely at effect, and how I'll use a particular rifle.
My $0.02...
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Bentong, in red in the quote again.
Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. Why the second barrel? QC problems with the first generation?
All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs. Were the original o-rings improperly installed or not installed? Can you elaborate on this? My apologies, I know there's been some past threads on this rifle, but I'd like the short version.
I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL.When you say bulked, do you mean you're got a large gas container attached or you are using the tube the cartridges go in to bulk load with the loading valve on the CAP of the XS60C? What is CPL? It looks like a rating based on a mechanical/physics calculation while velocity is just the speed of the pellet going through a screen at some distance from the muzzle.
My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c.When you say open up, I'm assuming you mean the ports, passageways, etc of the rifle to allow a smoother/faster flow of CO2 to the area it needs to get to. You're telling me the valving/ports/flow paths of the XS60C are either shorter/simpler/smoother than the QB78 with easier/faster flow to get to where the gas pressure is needed. Which makes sense when you consider when each version was designed. Even the newest version of the QB78 is dated compared to the XS60C's design if I'm reading the forums correctly.
I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots. It sounds like a tuned .22 caliber in a QB78 should be sufficient for dispatching the tree rats then, but a bit more with the XS60C doesn't hurt or actually puts you solidly where you want to go without pushing the rifle's design.
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I'm new to co2 having spent most of my time shooting gas piston and spring piston rifles. I got into co2 this past fall. To answer your questions about my rifles. The xp kit involves the bolt, it has a small extended probe with o ring to push the pellet past the transfer port allowing better gas flow. An HDD device is an add on to the hammer to make the hammer strike the valve stem in way that causes more efficient gas release for higher shot count per charge of co2, the tuned valve delivers more gas per shot. This is the way I understand how the upgrades to my rifles effect it's performance. If I am off on anything other members please correct me. I've read good things about the xs60 pcp from Flying Dragons but probably won't get one, the QB's fill my needs. They are far more accurate than my abilities and that is what I got them for.
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Bentong, in red in the quote again. Got the 1st gen DIY for $50.00 shipped got another barrel for total of $70.00. Why the second barrel? QC problems with the first generation?
All I did was add 2 o-rings at the back of the valve and replaced the barrel 3 o-rings. Mike included enough o-rings for 15yrs. Were the original o-rings improperly installed or not installed? Can you elaborate on this? My apologies, I know there's been some past threads on this rifle, but I'd like the short version.
I have her running bulked and shooting 726fps with 7.9 CPL.When you say bulked, do you mean you're got a large gas container attached or you are using the tube the cartridges go in to bulk load with the loading valve on the CAP of the XS60C? What is CPL? It looks like a rating based on a mechanical/physics calculation while velocity is just the speed of the pellet going through a screen at some distance from the muzzle.
My QB's I have to open up co2 path and valve to make it shoot close to XS60c.When you say open up, I'm assuming you mean the ports, passageways, etc of the rifle to allow a smoother/faster flow of CO2 to the area it needs to get to. You're telling me the valving/ports/flow paths of the XS60C are either shorter/simpler/smoother than the QB78 with easier/faster flow to get to where the gas pressure is needed. Which makes sense when you consider when each version was designed. Even the newest version of the QB78 is dated compared to the XS60C's design if I'm reading the forums correctly.
I like xs60c cock on open instead of cock on close with the QB's. I only dispatch nutters up to 30 yrds and 726 fps is more than enough for the head shots. It sounds like a tuned .22 caliber in a QB78 should be sufficient for dispatching the tree rats then, but a bit more with the XS60C doesn't hurt or actually puts you solidly where you want to go without pushing the rifle's design.
Barrel on is .177 and 2nd barrel is .22. Got the DIY 1st gen and they have a blow by from the rear of the valve...2 o-rings fixes it or get the $70.00 1st gen and mike will take care of blow by. I added a bulk fill nipple to the cap instead of using 2 carts. XS60c is configured already to shoot harder than the QB, it even have a power adjuster which I backed out to control pass thru shots. If I have to go PCP I can always screw in an 8" extention tube which I've had for the qb78.
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Thanks for clarifying. I was referring to the previous post where DaveinGA was asking about the pump and someone's recommendation for the XS60c PCP. Sorry to confuse. The PCP version is the one most people are keen on, since it is the cheapest option out there to break into the PCP market and with the low pressure fill requirements it is much easier to pump than the multitude of 3000psi guns out there, and vastly more so than the few and very expensive 4500psi guns.
DaveinGA, glad to have more NE GA folks around.
Jobobo, Thanks and I have been doing some looking at the PCP guns recently myself. Very powerful and definitely critter zappers at the bigger calibers, with the PCP able to drive the pellets in a range to provide serious knockdown power. The only and biggest negative I see is the problem of refilling the rifle's compressed air after shooting. I did some looking online and other than the more affordable pumps, most all the compressors or compressor adapters are prohibitively expensive.
If someone came out with a compressor or compressor adapter for $200.00 or less, that would definitely be the way to go. I myself, being an old, fat grandpa, am not real interested in pumping up any of these rifles. I'd rather put it on an automatic shutoff compressor, even a very slow one and go do something else while it fills. And having a tank I have to take somewhere and fill isn't much fun when I live out in the country and any sort of outfit with a refill stations is 45 minutes drive time or better away.
This same huge laziness is why I became interested the CO2 guns. Not much effort involved in throwing in a couple cartridges. So it's quick/easy to load and go, relatively speaking.
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Benton, responses in red again in the quote
Barrel on is .177 and 2nd barrel is .22. So no problem, just adding a caliber. Sounds like it's pretty simple and inexpensive to add a caliber on that rifle.
Got the DIY 1st gen and they have a blow by from the rear of the valve...2 o-rings fixes it or get the $70.00 1st gen and mike will take care of blow by. If all it takes is two o-rings, what makes it worth it to buy the second generation until the first gen is sold out? Does Mike do anything to the rear of the valve other than add two o-rings?
I added a bulk fill nipple to the cap instead of using 2 carts. How are you providing the bulk fill? What gas are you bulk filling, CO2 via paintball gun tanks?
XS60c is configured already to shoot harder than the QB, it even have a power adjuster which I backed out to control pass thru shots. So it's setup from the box to be able to fine tune the shot to shot pressure?
If I have to go PCP I can always screw in an 8" extention tube which I've had for the qb78. So right now it's not a high pressure setup then?
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I thought the tube sizes were different, between the QB and 60c?