GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Hatsan Airguns => Topic started by: TOM aka critter99 on May 13, 2012, 04:38:49 AM
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I have been waiting to hear about them for awhile since Airgun Depot started carrying Hatsan.
Step up or step down from their break barrels
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Might the underlever be a bit more accurate,since the barrel is fixed? If power level is same as the springer,I would think it would be an upgrade. But what do I know....still a newbie in the modern airgun world :D
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Mine should have being here already, hopefully Monday,..Shadow tuned
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You thinking about one Tom ? If you get one id like to try it out if ya don't mind.
Dave
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Tom,
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any posts on GTA specifically about "hands-on" with the Hatsan underlevers. Hopefully, NomadicPirate will post a detailed review when he receives his rifle.
The only negatives I have heard about them is in regards to their weight, which is right around 10 lbs, I think.
Dave
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Dave, is that 10 lbs. with a scope or without one ? They look real nice, I think they are availiable at Pyramid , Sportsmanguide, and AGD.
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Tom,
Unfortunately, I haven't seen any posts on GTA specifically about "hands-on" with the Hatsan underlevers. Hopefully, NomadicPirate will post a detailed review when he receives his rifle.
The only negatives I have heard about them is in regards to their weight, which is right around 10 lbs, I think.
Dave
Hopefully Ed (Shadow) could chime in, he tuned my Torpedo 100X .22
I think they are 9 pounds, I'll do a weight comparison too with the Trail NP XL
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Dave, is that 10 lbs. with a scope or without one ? They look real nice, I think they are availiable at Pyramid , Sportsmanguide, and AGD.
Sorry, I just looked at the Hatsan website . . . 9.9 - 11 lbs, depending on model, but unclear if with or without scope.
Dave
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hello,
*****my lack of experience plays a large role in this effort.*****
so far a consistent hold for steady, accurate shots is absolutely frustrating and elusive. not a fault with the rifle, i realize.
i shot around 85 pellets through my torpedo 100X (.177) yesterday. i cannot give a review of any real worth, so here are some discoveries. she weights 11.4 lbs w/utg 3x9 40 ao scope. the specs, left me with the impression it was going to be 9.2 lbs. without a scope. so, i've ended up with a few extra walnuts.
loading a pellet into the bolt seems more difficult than it should be, getting better with practice. however, when the bolt is fully open for access there is 27mm of space between the breech and bolt. this seems like plenty of room to maneuver a pellet into a hole, but the breech is squared and in the way a little. i mean it could have been chamfered enough to allow greater ease for access. having relatively spindly fingers/thumbs, i wonder how a big guys fingers/thumbs are gonna manage. other brands of pellets could make this less of a concern.
i've read somewhere that cleaning the barrel from muzzle end is not good on the crown, but if you must...use pistol cleaning brushes. i tried the pull through snake bore, that was a waste of money, imo. i don't know how you can clean it from the bolt end as the space seems too small to get plastic/carbon fiber rod in there, i would not try metal rods.
the cocking force does not seem a terrible force to reckon with, fairly easy...kinda like the feel you get lifting a 3 gallon bucket of water in a curling motion. yes, i tried it. the 11mm/22mm picatinny combo rail came in handy as using: two rings 1" high picatinny did not work, the slots (these are oddly spaced) put the scope too far away, even on slots nearest to the stock. settled for a single piece offset mount to use on the 11mm rail. it works, but not real comfortable with it...had to remove the rear sight to mount.
the quattro trigger...well, you know. i've asked for clarification from members, looked at hatsan instructions and for now i'll live with the trouble. don't feel ballsy enough to mess with it...for now.
shooting 8.2gr meisterkugeln wads. tight fitting. just received a chrono, and once zeroed in, yeah...80+ shots and down to 1.5-2" impacts around aim point...horrible!, anyhow: after zeroing i'll use the chrono to see if fps is close to specs. hey! maybe a few extra fps will come with them walnuts. ;D
all in all, without being tuned, put to a chrono, and in the hands of a noob...she is heavy, comes with strap swivels, looks good and feels solid. fit and finish appears tight, and nice. looked for the problem a few of the break barrels have and i don't see them in this model. so far this rifle is what their slogan says: serious. solid. impact.
the winchester 1100xsu is the same rifle, and Magman116 has better details.
-tony
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Tony excellent review thank you.
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well, thanks Brent.
being leery of coming across as stupid is kinda daunting, especially after reading reviews given by experts.
thinking about the weight of the rifle (from the forend forward) in comparison with my understanding/practice of hold sensitivity, it does not seem all that sensitive. btw, got it zeroed...sort of, maxed out the elevation, and i am one mil dot under center at 20 yards. so, i have a poorly mounted scope or the barrel is drooping/bent. running a straight edge along the top of the breech, or receiver tube don't know what to call it, anyways: approximate measure reveals 10mm to the center of the bolt/barrel, and 13mm to the center at the end of the barrel. would 3mm equal a mil dot? humm, now i am puzzled...is this by design?
-tony
edit:
****** the barrel is not bent or drooping. i leveled the barrel, measured center bore height, took a laser level to the same height, aimed it through the bore, and it is spot on. used a laser dot, then used the laser line (horizontal) for less light passing through the bore in order to remove the possibility of flooding the tiny bore, giving a false positive.
****** the scope has shifted nearly an inch backwards, and i did not realize it...even after the scope stop popped off. what a dumb***!
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I found your review very informative Tony. Thanks for writing it.
Dave
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I fired a few pellets thru a Hatsan 150 in ,25 cal last night using the open sights.Range was only 10 meters since I had the target outside at night and was shooting out the door of one of the shops at work.I got1/2 in groups with H&N hollow points,I do not use the artillery hold,not sure it will work with this gun.Only unusual thing about the gun is the screwdriver slot in the barrel at the muzzle.That was a real shock.Decent trigger right out of the box.
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Well, from my limited time with a Webley Domin8tor, which is a Hatsan 155 Torpedo anyway, I can tell you of good and not so good about them..
First off, it "IS" a BIG, HEAVY unit, weighing as Nomadic says, about 9.5 lbs naked. Put on any scope of worth and you've got an 11lb monster. Mine is a .177 model as at the time I bought it, they (the distributor) weren't offering the .22 model, or I definitely would have gone for this one instead. 1250fps, which the .177 is rated at, in my humble opinion is too much. The .22 can utilise this sort of power more effectively - mid 20's fpe - while with the .177, you have to pick your pellets carefully. It's just too much air rifle for a .177... Remember I did say "in my humble opinion...!!!". I also pity anyone wanting to do a field hunt over a few hours carrying this rifle, but then again, I am no 6 foot 6" monster guy so that might vary from guy to guy...
Second, cocking the beast is a bit of an act. The cocking underlever is quite short and that law of leverage makes it a little hard compared to other lever type airguns I've owned. I don't know just how much force is required to cock it but for an average guy like me, it feels like a whole lot, after a few shots.
Third, loading/firing. The Webley Domin8tor has a flip over load port, a little different from the 155 Torpedo's twist 'n' slide type (I think). It isn't that bad to load, but hold on, here comes the firing part. Right now, I have 4 spring air rifles you can truly call "Magnums",, The Domin8tor .177, SAG AR-2000 Jet .22, an English Webley Patriot and a Turkish Webley Patriot both .25's.. The Domin8tor has the most recoil of them all, even though it is the heaviest. You'd think not because of "opposite and equal" and being so much heavier than any of the others, but it seems to be a recoil that comes through the stock as if it is directly on the end of that huge spring. The stock is of beautiful Turkish Walnut,, very solid, perhaps that's what exaggerates the recoil, being so solid,, I don't know. You can simply feel the recoil a lot more than in the others... Accuracy can vary from pellet to pellet. It may not be the actual pellet at fault so much as the recoil and I am sure this rifle can be classed as "hold sensitive", but it can be reasonably accurate. If you use a scope, I'd recommend a good scope to handle that recoil and very solid mounts that wont slip. Trigger is less that totally desirable but I just get used to almost any trigger without moaning too much but I can see people not falling in love with it...
Is this rifle worth having..?? You'll always get people like me who have to own these rifles because they are there. Given another chance I'd go for the .22 or even better, the .25 calibre one as these rifles have enough power to handle large pellets like the .25,, but is it worth owning..?? It's a 50/50 call in my opinion. It's too much of a lot of what air rifles shouldn't really be, weight, size, power (in .177) but it's also a lovely looker. I just wont ever sell mine because it is a unique rifle. As a hunting air rifle, it has more physical bad points than good but if you hit something it will stay hit. As a target shooter,, well just don't even got there. Powerwise, it has plenty...
No matter which way you look at it you can say Yes when you want to say No,, or looking at the flipside,, for every way you want to say No, you can say Yes... If you can take advantage of its good points and handle the weight, then yes. If not, then no... If you want to say yes, go for the larger calibre(s) as this makes more sense...
Remember too, my model is about 3 years old and newer ones may be mecahically better, especially the trigger,, but I doubt if they will be stronger... That's the one thing it does have - POWER..!!
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good review, thank you
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GunnerAl,
Excellent review of your air rifle. Thank you, Brent
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Put Hatsan into the search engine of Tom Gaylords Pyramid Air Blog.
He has tested 2 Hatsans to date. Remember----he works for Pyramid and tries to find nice things to say about products they sell.
The accuracy was abysmal on both. Especially the 155 underlever.
He didn't recommend them.
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I fired my .25 cal 150 at 50 ft last night with a scope.Using H&N hollow points I'm still getting 1/2 in groups.The rifle is still smoking.Less than 50 pellets thru it.It takes some effort to cock.The scope base should have been made with more slots at the rear so the scope can be mounted more to the rear.Other than that I like it.
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Take the scope stop off, so you can mount the rings further back
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I am curious did anybody try the newer underlever model the Dominator yet??
http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-dominator-200s-carbine-underlever-air-rifle-22-cal.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/hatsan-dominator-200s-carbine-underlever-air-rifle-22-cal.html)
wish they had the wood stocked version
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I think the new Model 200 is rated at around the 1000fps rather than the 1250fps like the Domin8tor and Model 155. That might be a good thing in the long run, especially for the .177 version.
Tom @Buzzard Buff,,,
I'd say there are up to three things that "could" make a 155 Torpedo group badly (as I may have said above)...
1. The chosen pellet
2. Your hold on the rifle when fired
3. That huge untamed power - and certainly in .177 cal
You may have to try a few pellets to hit that sweet-spot and adapt to an almost free hold when firing and get used to the trigger to try to counter that enormous power, and, make sure those screws are tight on the stock,, they are left hand treads on mine. I could have easily snapped mine thinking they were the more normal right and threads while trying to undo them. Not good... I found two pellets went well for me - JSB Exact 8.4gr and the H&N Baracuda 10.4gr, although if I was foreced to make a choice, the JSB Exact might be the better choice. A good scope too will help no end...
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Gunner Al,
A remedial course in reading comprehension is recommended. Tom
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Take the scope stop off, so you can mount the rings further back
I had the scope stop off.I was using Weaver rings.The slots for the Weaver rings need to continue further to the rear of the base.
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.
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hello
additional information for Torpedo 100X (.177) chrono numbs. this rifle has had only 250 rounds through her before this test, and has never been 'tuned'.
made use of Competition Electronics, ProChrono Digital device for the following fps measurements: mid 60's Fahrenheit, solid overcast skies. each shot was taken within 15-30 seconds of each other...approx.
Superdome 8.3gr Superpoint 8.2gr Meisterkugeln 8.2 Hobby 7.0 SuperH-point 6.9
1010 983 992 1061 1057
1000 992 1003 1046 1049
1001 997 986 1069 1059
999 996 1004 1056 1059
998 995 994 1066 1049
988 981 1003 1059 1057
996 999 987 1053 1047
994 991 996 1062 1061
990 995 995 1072 1059
989 991 991 1065 1008
Avg. 996 Avg. 992 Avg. 995 Avg. 1060
Extreme Spread. 22 ES. 18 ES. 18 ES. 26
Std.Deviation 6 SD. 5 SD. 6 SD. 7
Crosman Ultra Magnum 10.5gr
875
882
874
879
872
879
872
877
880
869 Avg. 875, ES. 13, SD. 4
there was not a single error reading.
since the offset mount i tried did not hold with a stop pin, and two bolts....i tried a BKL 1-Pc Mount, 4" Long, 1" Rings, 3/8" or 11mm Dovetail, 6 Base Screws, .007 Drop Compensation, Matte Black.
well, it did not hold either. i cleaned the rail prior to mounting, and loctited with what i thought was a reasonable amount of torque to hold, and by the end of the test, it had slid back about 20mm. for now, i will chalk this up to inexperience. the recoil on this rifle does not seem all that harsh, guess it really is.
well, that's all i have until after it gets 'tuned'. now that i have a base line established...more or less, i will share what is discovered.
-tony
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hello
additional information for Torpedo 100X (.177) chrono numbs. this rifle has had only 250 rounds through her before this test, and has never been 'tuned'.
made use of Competition Electronics, ProChrono Digital device for the following fps measurements: mid 60's Fahrenheit, solid overcast skies. each shot was taken within 15-30 seconds of each other...approx.
Superdome 8.3gr Superpoint 8.2gr Meisterkugeln 8.2 Hobby 7.0 SuperH-point 6.9
1010 983 992 1061 1057
1000 992 1003 1046 1049
1001 997 986 1069 1059
999 996 1004 1056 1059
998 995 994 1066 1049
988 981 1003 1059 1057
996 999 987 1053 1047
994 991 996 1062 1061
990 995 995 1072 1059
989 991 991 1065 1008
Avg. 996 Avg. 992 Avg. 995 Avg. 1060
Extreme Spread. 22 ES. 18 ES. 18 ES. 26
Std.Deviation 6 SD. 5 SD. 6 SD. 7
Crosman Ultra Magnum 10.5gr
875
882
874
879
872
879
872
877
880
869 Avg. 875, ES. 13, SD. 4
there was not a single error reading.
since the offset mount i tried did not hold with a stop pin, and two bolts....i tried a BKL 1-Pc Mount, 4" Long, 1" Rings, 3/8" or 11mm Dovetail, 6 Base Screws, .007 Drop Compensation, Matte Black.
well, it did not hold either. i cleaned the rail prior to mounting, and loctited with what i thought was a reasonable amount of torque to hold, and by the end of the test, it had slid back about 20mm. for now, i will chalk this up to inexperience. the recoil on this rifle does not seem all that harsh, guess it really is.
well, that's all i have until after it gets 'tuned'. now that i have a base line established...more or less, i will share what is discovered.
-tony
Tony,
Looks like yours is consistent, but averages about 100fps lower than my Winchester 1100XSU which is the same as the Torpedo 100X.
Using Beeman kodiak Match 10.65gr pellets the average velocity was 940fps 20.9fpe with a high of 942 and a low of 938.7. Then I used RWS hobby 7gr pellets. They averaged 1156fps 20.78fpe with a high of 1158 and a low of 1155.
Maybe I have a better fitting piston seal. I wouldn't worry about the fps much as yours is shooting very consistent.
I did have the scope slip on it and almost fell off the rifle. Then I removed the scope stop from the rear and mounted the rear scope mount over the scope stop hole. That way I could secure the rear scope mount scope stop screw into the same hole. Then I moved the scope stop just behind the front scope mount. I have since replaced the scope mounts with picatinny mounts and no more worries about slipping.
-Chris
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hey Chris,
yes, i like the consistency as it is, and after a tune it may improve. not sure what the break in period is on these things.
yes, the two piece picatinny scope mount works, i tried it...however the eye relief for me, along with the short scope just was not matching up right. if the slots were closer to the stock, i would not have a problem.
btw, it was late when i posted and made an error with the amount the BKL slipped, it was only about 5mm. re-cleaned and really tightened her down. the six base bolts should hold this steady, if it does not then BKL ain't right for this rifle.
since you know i won't try to tune it myself, can you recommend a tuner? not sure if PyramydAir will still do it, but i am uncertain about them. i'll look around.
thanks
-tony
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Tony,
I am sure others here are better to recommend a good tuner. I do all my own work and am very picky about everything I do. I figured If I want it how I want it to be then I need to do it myself. Being a mechanical and electrical engineer, plus machinist, and part time gunsmith I was able to do it right. I have made some errors along the way, but nothing I couldn't deal with. I can also see where the mechanics can be improved greatly, especially when it comes to trigger assemblies, but I won't go into any trigger mods as they are for the experienced only.
-Chris
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I'm new here and I guess this would be as good a place as any to start.
I bought a .177 Torpedo 100x from AGD back in april as an upgrade/replacement for my Quest. Nice upgrade. Powerful and once I got the hang of it--decently accurate. Nickle sized five shot groups at 25 yards using 10.3 JSB EXACT HEAVY. Like the fit and finish of this rifle too. But here's the bad part : spring failure at less than 800 rounds. I think it was doomed from the first shot because it dieseled/detonated for the first 25 to 30 shots---more than once bad enough to cause the cocking lever to disengage from its latch. I didnt make much of it at the time but hindsight says I should have exchanged it for another one. I filled out the form on the Hatsan USA website and will be sending it in shortly per Rick's instructions. I'm going to let this run its course and get back to everyone as to the outcome. From what I have read here there seems to be mixed feelings on this brand. Yes my rifle broke and I am disappointed but it will be how this is handled that will form my opinion about Hatsan. A spring failure seems to be out of the ordinary for them but maybe I'm wrong. According to Rick I will either have my gun repaired or get a new one that has been checked/tested. Wont know till they look at it. I think my issue was caused by improper lube during assembly. Once I put a few hundred pellets through the gun it calmed down and shot smooth and consistently AND it hit hard. We will see what the replacement or repair brings but I am hopeful it will work out fine. Spring failure aside I personally like everything about this rifle except the weight. Ten or so pounds with the scope is a bit much but if the tradeoff is an accurate and hard hitting rifle I'll take it.
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welcome, AticaJoe.
counting myself fortunate so far, as the biggest complaint i can muster is against the weird scope rail. your spring failure is alarming. sure hope Hatsan USA treats you right, along with other owners of various models.
yeah, a detonation that dislodges a latched cocking lever sounds pretty serious. dang.
i'll try the JSB's and the Beeman Kodiak, Magman116 used.
well, best for 'ya
-tony
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woohoo!, just put 50 rounds through her and the BKL has not budged!
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Here
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/ (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/blog/)
Nathan
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Mine should have being here already, hopefully Monday,..Shadow tuned
Well, did you ever get your rifle ? Results ?
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not here yet,...will give a Review once I get some time with it.
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this is follow-up information on the Torpedo 100X (.177), after being tuned. Ed, GTA member (Shadow) performed the tune, and the firing cycle has improved by getting rid of the audible/tactile 'twang', and it's following vibration. the recoils have been dampened a great deal and it doesn't feel harsh or violent. smooth and solid firing. while trigger adjustments were not made, a polish was given to the main sears and lubed. the trigger action really improved compared to out-of-the-box, and overall...Shadow did a nice job, and i'm happy.
there is a drop-off in fps, pre and post 'tune'. this is disappointing...but i was warned about this possibility by Shadow. the sacrifice of 40 -50 fps for a smoother firing cycle is acceptable as this should yield better accuracy results over time. i've chrono numbers for the same pellets used in the pre-tune test, but take my word for it, the rifle shot faster before the tune. while the average fps dropped, so did the extreme spreads and standard deviations which means that it is more consistant compared to before the tune, which was not god-awful.
my expectations have been adjusted.
-tony
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Hi guys, i am new to GTA also and have had my hatsan 150 .22 cal underlever (kicks like a mule!). I don't own a chrony yet so don't ask for fps but have tried several types of pellets in the lighter range 14.3gr-15.9 and have found the RWS meisterkulgeln to be the most exact to date. I had several issues with the rifle, most of which i resolved reading threads posted here:
1. The trigger was very rough, but i took it apart and polished it and that ended most of the issues. i know there are other screws to modify the trigger but i don't know which they are or where to get them.
2. The so-called Picatinny rail was *(&^ to put a scope on. i could not get the scope close enough to see out of clearly so i opted to have use the 11mm dovetail.
3. I have gotten 10 14.3gr crosman premier hollow points into a ragged 1/2" hole @ 10 yards sitting on a bench and using a small bag and often use .65" paintballs for target practice iron sights but once i add a scope the accuracy goes out the window.
I want to swap the spring for a gasram/nitro piston but don't know which would work in my rifle. I have been reading up on other guns in the hatsan lineup but don't want to order the wrong part. I know hope you guys will be kind enough to help me out with these minor details.