GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Crosman Airguns => Topic started by: eat2muchrice on April 14, 2012, 07:59:18 PM
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I’m starting a new post for this topic, it is a continuation to another post I started linked here.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28767.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28767.0.html)
I GIVE UP on you Crosman! This is my third Nitro Venom Dusk and the quality between each one is considerable noticeable. I have tried everything possible next to completely tearing your rifle down and rebuild it. I have spent countless hours reading, watching and learning, I’ve pulled up almost every since link on the whole entire internet. Yes, I’m mad and frustrated, I’ve spent over a month trying to make your rifles work. I’m not asking for much, just a decent shooting rifle that is reliable for one to go hunting or plucking with. You have taken something that was supposed to be fun and relaxing then turned it into a nightmare of aggravation. You have ruined this sport for me.
For those who have been following my progress with my Crosman Nitro Venom dusks, I finished grinding though the 500 rounds for break in. Today the weather was perfect so I decided to go out again, my shots got progressively worse and worse, just like the previous Nitro Venom rifles that I had returned. Again I tried everything to fix the issue form remounting the scope, tighten all screws, cleaning barrel with dry patches. I’ve already spent over $60 in different pellet types and bought special bore cleaner, new scope, GTR III trigger and brushes to cleaning. My groups are now so bad that it looks like I sprayed the target with a shotgun. Honestly I didn’t think the rifle could cause me such a headache, I’ve read bad reviews, but thought I’d be able to fix it, but not with these rifles. I should not have to void my warranty stripping it apart and rebuilding it for it to shoot decent. This is ridiculous and don’t blame the Chinese manufacturer for ones failure to require quality control, I own my own company that manufactures our products in China and when it come to quality it’s “MY” job to ensure everything meets specifications. If something does not meet my satisfaction they (China) will change it till it does, they just build what they are told to and will change everything from type of material to quality of work if and when told to. China does make a few great products and a lot of bad ones, but 99% of the bad are only because of our corporate greed and laziness to make the fastest buck possible.
Sorry and thanks for listening to my ranting, I’m just going to print out my return labels then relax for the rest of my weekend. Once I steam off a bit I might start looking into a new rifle.
My Crosman Nitro Venom Dust, I didn't know these rifles can outline a star map.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7077853811_734f49ac4f_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049822@N03/7077853811/)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049822@N03/7077853811/#) (http://www.flickr.com/people/43049822@N03/)
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this looks like my titan gp all over again! do not panic i got mine to work and so can you. What exactly has been done to the rifle?
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Might be a dirty barrel or crown needs work. May need to run a barrel mop with bore compound and finish it up with goo gone and patches. Inspect the crown and maybe polish that up too. Hope things work out it could be some minor tweaking. If it seems the some shots seem like they are shooting a little slow clean and lube your pellets. Been using automatic transmission fluid that works fine no dieseling.
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I'm almost certain it's your piston seal. A chronograph will tell you for sure.
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ok i saw your other post. I had to take the gun apart put 5/16 brass washers for the barrel pivot gene sells a kit at the grt trigger site. The stock plastic washer are a no go and cause the barrel to move left and right. i had the barrel recrowned 30$ local gunsmith. and i had barrel droop caused shots to usually go low cutting strips of aluminum can folding them over and placing the in the rear scope mount will help there is a you tube video for barrel droop on crosmans, also there are scope mounts that can adjust for barrel droop. also make sure you get a scope mount that has a scope stop drilled in thats what the hole on top of your compression tube is if the scope moves even slightly you will never group at any yards. dont just place a scope on the factory rail it wont hold up to the recoil.
the biggest issues crosman seems to have is barrel crowns and barrel droop. the other issue people are not usin scope stop mounts on these heavy recoil guns
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yes if there is even small cut on the seal it will screw up your groups. hone your gun "LIGHTLY" with a bubble hone for a 1 inch diameter from an auto supply store CLEAN it out very well with soap and water and wipe clean. add some moly paste and re install a new seal. there is alot of info on how to install a new seal without damaging it here on GTA.
i installed genes bushing/washer kit, grt III trigger hone/lube, re crown barrel, new piston seal, barrel droop compensating mount. and my titan gp shoots dimes at 25 with jsb dome 8.4 grains.
if none of that works after 2000 rounds or so send her back, crosman wont complain unless you tell them you have modded it.
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What's the distance with those shots?
Guess my friend got lucky....he got his Venom a couple of weeks back and he's getting about quarter-size groups out to 30 yards with .177 Beeman FTS pellets.
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Eats, I replied to original post.
From that post, that rifle wasn't bad, the group on the left was good, a couple of flyers.
1. FOR MY XL1100, trying different pellets required re-zeroing my scope for each pellet from different manufacturers.
I stopped trying that and stuck with CPHP, I can hit a 1 1/2" plinker 4 out 5 times at 45 yards, nothing done except the GTR trigger. I've only had the gun less than a tin of pellets.
2 These guns are very hold sensitive.
I bought my XL1100 based on shooting a friends Trail, his worked fine, he just changed to a GTR trigger.
A 15 year old neighbor just bought a Titan (because I had a Benji and the other guy had a Benji) his is a little more difficult to get good groups...but the kid has come around!
Personally, you're trying too hard! Trying too many different pellets,
Go to a gun shop and shoot the gun over the chrony. Then go from there.
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Hey eatrice dude i'm 99% sure it IS your seal. Order an apex seal from air rifle hq .com and.install it.
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I wont buy another crosman springer. the trail NP i had was junk. Shouldnt have to spend all that time and money getting a brand new gun to group good. now the 22xx, 13xx and disco are great guns and im happy with them.
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most springers and piston guns dont group out of the box need alot of lead and tlc. its just part of the baggage. i imagine alot of good spring/piston guns get sent back when there isnt anything really wrong with the gun.
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I gave up on Crosman, a long time ago.
I Have had numerous phantoms,quests and what ever other name they gave them.All had problems.
That is why I went with RWS for my full power models.
I bought the stoeger which is either a b18-b19 variant, virtually the same as crosmans and gamo's. The purpose of the purchase was an excuse to use the GRT111 trigger. I used the knowledge, acquired here and tuned her. Made some of my own parts, had it crowned professionally. Made my own brass pivot bushings.Touched up the breach face , there was a bur. Buttoned the piston and crosshatched the piston chamber.
Turned out, way better, than I ever expected. Had I this knowledge before, I might not had so many crosmans guns.
I would have tuned the first one and kept that.
You are right about the way you feel. There are way better guns out there, most for double the price or more. They perform the kind of quality control you are looking for.
Type in adult precision airguns, on google. Bet one of the first links, if not the first, will be for beeman airguns.
Edit: Typed it in, its the 3rd down, beat by Gamo... now that is a mistake.
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sorry to hear your Venom can't group. Mine didn't group till after 750 shots...and after that it was shooting 1 inch groups at 30 yards. I even went out hunting right after I resighted it in to check if it could hold a zero and nailed a squirrel from 30 yards offhand.
Sadly I had to return it because the linkage bent like *(&^ and gouged the bejesus outta the stock
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Thanks everyone for the replies, I’ll try to respond to most comments.
The pictured targets are set at exactly 25 yards away from the barrel, I’m shooting off a bench with bags using the artillery hold, and I’ll pass 1 dry patch though every 50-100 rounds. I know it’s not my shooting because the groups got progressively worse than at the end of my session it would even sometimes miss the entire 1ft pellet trap. The rifle went from 1 1/2 in groups to about a 9 inch spread. Look right above the center bulls eye on the second target, 5-shots making one hole, I call that the miracle group, but that’s only once out of 500 rounds.
I’ve done almost everything I can think of except stripping it apart as to not void the warranty. Here is a list; New Scope, $60 in pellets (5 types, 3 domed), GTR III Trigger, Polished bore with J-B paste and Goof off, Tissue tested break, Q-tip tested crown, Blue loc-tite all screws, cross tighten mounts, digital leveled scope, picked though tin removing bad pellets, 500+ rounds of break in.
This was my third Nitro Venom Dusk. First one the scope broke at around 100 rounds, it was also covered in metal grindings stuck in every crack. Second one Amazon did not package properly and UPS Cracked the scope it also had very poor welding on the weaver rail mount, it was also almost dripping with oil. This third one showed promise till this started happening and it’s doing 7-9 inch groups.
I think you guys are right, the seal is busted. I don’t have a chrono to test, I’ll ask if my local range can let me use theirs. Few issues with me replacing the seal is that it will void my warranty, second is by the time I order and install it I’ll have passed the 30 day return period from Amazon, third is if I do a complete tune and it still doesn’t work right I’m stuck with it and have wasted more money and time.
It’s just sad that I’ve tried and tried to make this work for me. I really wanted to love this rifle and gave it three solid attempts, it’s just my bad luck that all three have failed. I thought with some TLC that I could make it a decent shooter, but never expected a complete rebuild was in order.
My options are to either cut my losses and return it, or to do a complete rebuild and pray it works out. I’m going to give it a couple of days to decide.
Thanks again for letting me vent my frustrations.
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How does it do at 10 yds (30-ft)???
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Thanks for sharing all these headaches with us - now I KNOW it's not my shooting or yours. Your troubles sound very much like my Trail NP and I'm convinced it's just a POS. My gun is doing exactly the same &^^& yours is - getting worse over time. I also have a CDT trigger, tight screws, loctite, clean barrel etc. I'm shooting at around 10 meters and might as well toss a coin as to where each shot's gonna land. I do have old targets with better groups from a few weeks ago. This is only my second airgun - I sold my NPSS because it was doing the same "dang" thing. I'm gonna put the stock trigger back in and send it to Crosman - I hear they have great customer service. Maybe you can do the same.
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Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.
“Ol’DeadEye” No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.
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Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.
“Ol’DeadEye” No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.
I'm sorry to hear that. From what I see, you have three choices, purchase a new seal and instal it with a spring compressor, 2) send it to Shadow to have him tune it for around $115, 3) give up and return it.
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I was wondering about shorter distances, because I thought that was the first test of any airgun.
I have a Benji Trail NP 22 cal, and a Crosman 1077 and they both shoot real tight groups at 30 ft.
The 1077 has about the worst trigger action of anything in the world but still shoots tight at that short range, and I'm an old guy with bad eyes behind the controls.
I've never touched anything on them, right out of the box stock.
It did take me awhile to get the hold right. I shoot off my range bag from a casual bench/table, resting the rifle directly on the bag at the balance point just in front of the trigger guard. I use a very loose fit on the shoulder and a loose grip on the right hand with my thumb up alongside the action. I never grip with my thumb over. My left hand lightly touches the butt plate at the bottom.
The artillery hold doesn't give me as consistent results from the bench.
What caliber and pellet weight are you shooting?
I get the best results from my Gamo Big Cat with the 10.5 gr Crosman Premiers in 177 cal.
The Big Cat shoots pretty hard and I think it needs the heavier pellet to slow things down to more stable velocities.
Just my thought, I'm certainly no expert. But I do like to experience things for myself before giving up and relying on the experts.
p.s. A nice pcp gun eliminates these problems. But it gets almost boring shooting them at short distances.
Come over to the Dark Side. Heh - heh - heh...
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My Venom drove me nuts too but I finally did get it to shoot well. I do still notice that after 75-100 rounds it's best to set it down for a while. Not sure if its me or the rifle but one of us gets fatigued. The artillery hold is key and so is barrel pivot and stock screw torque. At one point I was able to change POI by 1" at 10 yds by just changing the torque on the two front stock screws.....The seal gave up as I was shooting .68 cal paintballs off golf tees at 35 yds. Up until the seal failed I was hitting them about 60% of the time with my most accurate pellets.
Now that the piston seal finally gave up after 6000+ rounds I called crosman to order another seal. The gal asked me when I bought the rifle and I told her it was still under warranty I bought it in Jan. She just sent the seal at no charge...... Kind of like saying thank you for taking the initiative to do it yourself. Yeah it would be fun for a while if the rifle shot 20 rounds thru the same hole every time but then where would you be? Looking for something else to figure out or work on. Just think how much more satisfying it would be if you figured it out instead of giving up. Its not about the results it's about the journey (but good results are sure fun too) ;D
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Two things.
Very good chance the seal is bad.
Also almost a certainty the barrel pivot is moving around judging from "group" patterns. All the springer Crosmans, gas or spring, have cheap barrel washers and poor seal installation. Once in awhile you get lucky and the seal will be good, but then those plastic pivot washers are going to wear out fairly quickly and play havoc with your accuracy.
If your barrel has little or no tension at the hinge and will flip up and down without any resistance at all when the piston is cocked, the plastic washers are probably toast. You should be able to cock the rifle and move the barrel into any position and have it either hold that position once let go, or almost hold position.
My Crosman Storm is a b18-19 variant as well, and shares some basic design with the Venom, particularly the pivot washers. It shot very similarly out of the box, and no amount of tightening, pellet changes, etc helped.
Tore it down, put in a new seal and lubed tuned it, and installed zinc pivot washers. After a couple bouts of retightening the barrel pivot as the washers broke in, it now will hit a 2"x2" spinner at 50 yrds every time as long as I am on it. It will group 1/2" or better at 25 yrds using CPHP's.
With your gun, I'd simply take it apart, clean it up with a smoothing and hone, install a seal and metal washers, and break it in again. Within 5oo shots it would more than likely seem like a totally different gun.
I agree, though. None of that should be necessary in any way. The only saving grace is that these Crosman 18-19 variants are simple to work on, and a tune can be done cheaply in a couple hours. Right now, I have no interest in buying a Crosman AG, simply because I don't need another project.
If and when I want something new out of the box to tinker with, then I'll consider one of the Titans or Trails, but I'll do so knowing full well the chances of getting a good shooter out of the box are not good.
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yes if there is even small cut on the seal it will screw up your groups. hone your gun "LIGHTLY" with a bubble hone for a 1 inch diameter from an auto supply store CLEAN it out very well with soap and water and wipe clean. add some moly paste and re install a new seal. there is alot of info on how to install a new seal without damaging it here on GTA.
i installed genes bushing/washer kit, grt III trigger hone/lube, re crown barrel, new piston seal, barrel droop compensating mount. and my titan gp shoots dimes at 25 with jsb dome 8.4 grains.
if none of that works after 2000 rounds or so send her back, crosman wont complain unless you tell them you have modded it.
Using a bubble(ball) hone runs the risk of putting a radius on the bottom of the compression tube which will eventually affect your new seal. Use a brake hone instead and file the pad carriers flush with the stones so the compression tube maintains a square edge at the bottom.
pv
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Lambchops, I’ve e-mailed Crosman again about this current situation. I’m interested to hear what they have to say, everyone in here states how they have great customer service so let’s see where they go with this one.
Thanks Ol’DeadEye for the tips. I have had both .177 and .22 Nitro Vemons, both calipers are fairly equal at ranges of 25 yards. I do however prefer the .177 as it provides more kick and “tings” the targets faster without the delay. I would look into PCP but the prices are out of my league, I had planned to be a weekend/monthly shooter so that might be overkill. Maybe I’ll start saving up for one next year.
Treb37, so what was wrong with your Nitro Venom and how did you fix it? Shooting paintballs at 30 yards does sound fun, if I ever get a working rifle that will be on my to-do list.
Hey Paul68, The barrel has nice tenshion when cocking and no wiggle or free play. I would like to do all the upgrades and tune, if I tune it I void the warranty and must keep it. Just like a relationship, you can try and try to make it work, but if you marry into it before all the kinks are worked out you’ll have one heck of a problem to live with.
Thanks for the replies, it helping with my AR's withdraws.
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Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.
“Ol’DeadEye” No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.
Dude...waaaay too many DIY remedies here and no solution to your core problem; a gun that doesn't work right outa the box, like it should x 3! :(
Crosman does a pretty good job with the MRods, PRods, Discos and the 22xx and 13xx guns, unfortunately, your springer/gas piston gun and so many others like yours, not so much. :o
Check out the American Airguns Calssifieds and other sites for a pampered RWS or better yet, Weihrauch spring gun. Once you go to the Weihrauch side of the street, you'll never walk on the Chi-com springer side again. ;D ;)
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Thanks Saade, I’m in contact with Crosman via e-mails. I hope to come to some sort of resolution and assurance that they will try to prevent future incidents like mine. I might need a break from air rifles, put too much time and work into this. I greatly appreciate all the recommendations that everyone has provided, it’s a bit overwhelming with all the choices as I’ve been spending hours daily looking around online.
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Yes, I’ve called Crosman in regards to my other two Nitro Vemons and was just instructed to return them to the retailer. There are a few reasons why I was so adamant for this rifle to work for me. The most important factor is that my loving wife bought me this rifle for my birthday. She spent days researching, learning, calling around and asking people all about air rifles, which she knew nothing about to find me the perfect gift. Her eyes were filled with excitement upon me opening it up and that created the instant bond for me to love anything she had chosen. Also besides my inability to make this rifle shoot properly I love all the features, price and looks of it. It is kind of heart breaking knowing that I’ve tried so hard to make it work out and it’s just not performing within reasonable tolerance.
“Ol’DeadEye” No, I have not tried shooting it at 10 yards. I do know that the barrel’s plastic seal is not level and it makes a bull thud sound sometimes when it shoots, bottoming out hitting my wooden table where my target trap stands on.
Dude...waaaay too many DIY remedies here and no solution to your core problem; a gun that doesn't work right outa the box, like it should x 3! :(
Crosman does a pretty good job with the MRods, PRods, Discos and the 22xx and 13xx guns, unfortunately, your springer/gas piston gun and so many others like yours, not so much. :o
Check out the American Airguns Calssifieds and other sites for a pampered RWS or better yet, Weihrauch spring gun. Once you go to the Weihrauch side of the street, you'll never walk on the Chi-com springer side again. ;D ;)
Bingo YOU beat me to it........ Why on earth should anyone have to fix a new product in order to use it.???? If it was your new car would you fix it yourself....NO. When you buy a product that is defective you hold the MFG responsible. Quit being typical males and advocating fix it yourself. Lol Nuff said.
I dumped my Titan and the NP. Got A HW30S. Yes it cost a bit more.But it has already paid for itself in satisfaction. The satisfaction of owning an Ag that is as pleasing to operate as it is to the eye..
A quality product that will in fact outlast me.
Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have no AG if it's your only.
We are now up to $299.00 not including the all the hassle and frustration.
For $32.00 dollars more, $311.95 +EST:$20.00 shipping You can buy a HW30S New....Nothing to do but wipe it off clean the barrel and go shootin. A trigger that dreams are made of....What a purchase should be.Something of pleasure.
no it isn't a magnum...but if you want to punch paper , plink and pest....In .177 it's a sure fire winner. Can't swing three bills...RWS 34. It's on my list.
Just trying to demonstrate how the bottom line can really add up .
I know .been there..not going back either.
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my advise is to get your money back. and look for a fixed barrel guns like to discovery or underlevers like hatsans or similar. the problem is that there is alot of slop between the barrel washers and the pivot bolt. i replaced the plastic ones with zinc and replaced the pivot bolt with an allen head bolt to allow to tighten more. it helped for awhile and eventually went back to grouping everywhere. crosman is using a poor lock up desighn. I had a gunsmith machine a front and rear rifle sights on the barrel and mine works great. so i dont think you can add rifle sights to the xt due to barrel design. my oppinion is that break barrels dont work well with scoopes cuz every time the barrel moves even the slightest bit your point of impact changes.
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I keep hearing a faint calling from the darkside, whispers in the back of my head are saying “we have cookies over here”. I’m trying to resist but the urge to have more power is getting to me.
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I've been on the fence for 6 months on buying a Trail. On one side the ratings look mostly positive, on the other side many frustrated owners.
But I think this thread turned me off for good. Too many plastic parts and too many stories of poor craftmanship. Even if it did shoot well out of the box, I'd wonder how long it would last before the parts and pivots wear out.
Now I'm planning on either an R9 or one of the new BSA Lightnings with Gas Ram (if they move production back to the UK)
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Springers in order of $$$ and level of ;D satisfaction, Theoben, Weihrauch, FWB, BSA (UK made) RWS and then... all others a distant 10th or 12th place :-\.
Pete said it best... "Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have no AG if it's your only. We are now up to $299.00 not including the all the hassle and frustration."
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Don't worry Crosman screwed me over with quality control on my Titan. Same problems as yours.
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I’m still in contact with Crosman’s management via E-mail and I have to say that so far they seem to take responsibility for their products with no excuses. I don’t think its proper for me to disclose our conversation, but I’m trying to get the point accross that Cosman is only one step away from being the beloved air rifles that I’ve grown up with. I’m not an expert on AR’s but that’s exactly why I feel it’s important for them to listen to people like me. So far the high light of this experience is knowing that they seems to be listening. For a company who does that makes them a huge factor in buying anything from them. I understand changes takes time and I hope they will be made. That might give me enough motivation to try them again, just with a different line up.
Why am I still hearing those voices in my head? “join us”……..
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Pete said it best... "Let's do some quick math. Trail NP $229. + Gold trigger $32.00 + Bushing kit $18.00 .=$279.00 Then your time to install. Then it it fails..take all the extras. $20.00 to ship back to Crosman. Meanwhile you have no AG if it's your only. We are now up to $299.00 not including the all the hassle and frustration."
Don't forget the other hidden startup cost like Moly paste, bore cleaners, Lock tight, oil, array of different pellets, new scope. I am sure that a lot of people out there have no idea what these things can cost. Before this forum I've always thought it was as simple as just buying one a tin of pellets, a cleaning kit, rifle then go out shooting. I knew fine tuning a rifle would cost money but that should be a hobby not an obligation. Just my thoughts.
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Eat2muchrice: Here is the underlying problem, and it's not just a Crosman thing IMO.
In the last 25 years, the average american consumer has become less and less knowledgeable about mechanical things. For many reasons, not least of which are products that are "throwaway" and are not intended to be fixed, opened up and modified and... the boom in passive entertainment and sports activities i.e, X-box, I-Pad, Smart Phone, fantasy-football, pick one. I think we all know a few "fantasy jocks" who probably haven't tossed a football in a backyard game in 20 years!?
Manufacturers (at the same time) have had to find a way to compete for our attention and $ and do it cheaply, which is different than doing it with quality with lower costs. So goes Crosman with many of their products. Made in China, which, doesn't have to be a bad thing but, it's geared towards the mildly informed consumer, or more often, the uninformed. "Big-Bang XL 5000" in large print on the box, with made in china and "velocity with 2gr plastic pellets" in font so small even lawyers can't read it on the back. And so it goes.
As I usually note, in step the Euro guns and makers. These guys have been making serious airguns for serious (and mechanically inclined) airgunners for over 100 years. In Germany and the UK, there are more Field Target, hunters and 10 meter shooters than all the serious adult airgunners combined in the U.S. A serious UK gunner expects to open up a Weihrauch or Air Arms box, sight the gun in and go shooting. He expects (and usually gets) a world class REAL 2 stage trigger, a Lothar barrel or equivalent, and a spring that will last till his grand kids start shooting. Even with their Euro based economy, they pay nearly double for the same gun that can be had in the states. They also have to live with 12 ft lbs energy or pay big bucks and wait for an FAC or firearms license to go over that. Many folks here and in the US generally, laugh at 12 ft lbs, and spend money to reach 30 and 50 fpe with no restrictions. Sadly, their pursuit is often started at the low end or uninformed end of the product spectrum. As NPetey noted, after a year and $350 spent on all the "stuff" they see an HW30, new, for $370, with a Rekord trigger, match-like barrel, real blued steel, excellent woodwork and accuracy better than most shooters can exploit, right outa the box.
If you aren't going PCP, look at FWB, Air Arms, Weihrauch and Walther guns. Yes, they cost, and yes, they deliver. I have had the "junker" spring guns, mostly out of curiosity, they all failed in most ways to deliver. I still have my Walthers, Air Arms and Weihrauch guns, some are 20 yrs old and still performing nearly as well as they did day one. All of them provide great shooting enjoyment, pride of ownership and accuracy that I try to live up to as the human element of the equation, often with less result than I would like, old eyes you know?.
As others write about washers, and shims and bent barrels and gold trigger replacements, I am amazed at how some of those guns ever make it into a store for sale! On the flip side, my HW97k performs so well, that I have actually shot it with loose stock screws and did not know it until I heard unusual rattles, the paper target had one hole and two hole groups at 20 meters, just about like it always does, loose screws or not. It doesn't get better than that.
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Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.
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Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.
Whew...! I was on a roll there! :P
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Amen Brother!
Brian ....take a seat and relax after that one.
Well done.
Well said/written SAADE.
Some of us don't realize that until we're 'into it'.
Being new to the sport, I fell into it.
My first thoughts on deciding an air rifle, $300 range....don't ALL rifles end up with a better trigger?
I'll probably end up modding any rifle.
Are some if not all airguns made in China or have parts made in China?
Innovated design with the NitroPiston, excellent customer service, I might as well stick with USA company, Crosman!
But it 'slightly' occurred to me "I might get a bad/cheaply made gun for $250+"
I guess I got lucky with my XL1100.
But a gun that doesn't shoot well right out of the box? It will go back into the box if it's junk.
I understand Eats connection to his Crosman, his wife selected it as a gift...and commend him for his 'stickin to it'.
It's been an interesting thread.
My next 'springer' will probably be a Weihrauch, for another Crosman product, a Disco is in the plan and probably a Prod.
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Completely agree with saade. Stay away fron crosman break barrels. Im not fond of any break barrel gun compared to fixed. Although people swear by rws 34 and weihrach 30. There are some great underlevers and pcp/ co2 guns. For around $300. Benji. Discos are good and hatsans 150 are pretty solid. The hatsan gate discussion gate is on fire right now.
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Well I would like to update my situation with Crosman, They kindly offered me a new Nitro Venom rifle that has been quality tested by them. I got overly excited and requested to upgrade to a PCP hahaha. I know I pushed it a bit far and they denied the request. Although they still offer to provided me with a replacement this is my response.
“I apologize that my request sounded greedy as that was not my intent, I chose this model due to the recommendations of others and how I believe it would fit the “bill”, also please understand that I do appreciate the offer for a new Nitro Vemon that has been tested by your experienced team. However the thought of a 4th break barrel attempt leaves me unsure, knowing that 2 have already failed me after several hundred shoots. I Hope you can understand my lack of motivation to “break-in” another rifle for the 4th time knowing I still might have problems with it. Honestly, I falsely worked myself up with excitement for the chance of going into a PCP rifle and I guess that is my mistake because when "****" mentioned providing me a new rifle and request me to choose the model I felt this was the best fit for me. I became overly excited, so much so I stayed up till 3am researching all about them. I hope you can understand my decision for me to cut my losses and drop out of the sport. Call me silly for passing up your offer, but it’s not about getting a new rifle, it’s about the overall experience I wanted with them.“
This is all nearing an end to my air rifle adventure, it’s truly been interesting and I fear I’ll be fading away into the vast internet. Without the adequate funds to explore other options and being without owning one I don’t see myself staying involved in the forums for very long. I’ll stick around as much as I can for I feel I’ve made many friends here. I know many will say buy this or that, do this and that or just take the money and run, I just don't have the heart and energy to contunue anymore. In due time I’m sure I’ll give it another attempt and one year it will be done right with all the knowledge everyone here has provided me.
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Get your refund, and purchase one of Mike Melicks tuned b28's while he has them on sale. Problems solved.
Even with what I already have, if I had the cash I would buy one myself.
You would get a powerful, accurate, attractive shooter that would last a long time and have none of the hassles. Check out his notices in the Vendors gate under Flying Dragon. Mike will not steer you wrong.
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i would just install either zinc or brass barrel bushing washers "5/16" and remove the plastic junk. replace the seal on the piston. experiment with tightening and loosening the stock screws. remove the barrel bolt and replace one with an allen wrench head " allows for better tightening. if the gun still tends to shoot low i would shim the rear scope ring with some aluminum can strip folded over. if the shimming helps i would buy a droop compensating 11mm scope mount and remove the aluminum shims. From what i find is crosman has barrel droop and barrel crown problems. if none of this helps i would demand a refund and get a rws 34 or weihrauch 30 or benjamin discovery. they will most likely be problem free and all are tried and proven performers. i will only buy crosman fixed barrels i think most of us have been bitten by crosman break barrel qulaity problems. the nitro piston guns have so much potential but just are not produced with the quality like rws or weihrauch.
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i would just install either zinc or brass barrel bushing washers "5/16" and remove the plastic junk. replace the seal on the piston. experiment with tightening and loosening the stock screws. remove the barrel bolt and replace one with an allen wrench head " allows for better tightening. if the gun still tends to shoot low i would shim the rear scope ring with some aluminum can strip folded over. if the shimming helps i would buy a droop compensating 11mm scope mount and remove the aluminum shims. From what i find is crosman has barrel droop and barrel crown problems. if none of this helps i would demand a refund and get a rws 34 or weihrauch 30 or benjamin discovery. they will most likely be problem free and all are tried and proven performers. i will only buy crosman fixed barrels i think most of us have been bitten by crosman break barrel qulaity problems. the nitro piston guns have so much potential but just are not produced with the quality like rws or weihrauch.
You don't get it.............You do not waste your time and money on a product that does not perform. True modifications enhance the performance of an already solid foundation.
Potential is a word that means nothing....your only allowing yourself the opportunity to waste more time and money. Or....you can not make a silk purse out of a Sow's ear!.....
Pulled that one out of the back of the closet.lol
Eat to much ......there is a saying we used in racing..It goes, Sometimes you have to slow down to go fast. Ya make fewer mistakes , frees up mental bandwidth.....you get it.
Take a step back....get your money from Crosman. A shooter from Mike is one option.
But sit and think about what you really want to use an AG for. Shooting paper...you don't need a magnum. a pcp this early in the game...not needed. Seriously /....more horsepower is not always better.
Here look... Am77 with a scope...did some free mods...shoots pretty nice at 10m...opens up bit 20. You can pest, and plink... I used to take small rabbit with my 766.
The point I'm trying to make is , sometimes we want more than we need.And that will almost always lead to disappointment . Pick the right tool for the job. Sit down and be honest with yourself....what is it I need an AG for? Then ask around a select the right tool for the job. I guarantee you will be much happier with end result.
And yes pumpers are Cool!
(http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa347/NPetey/IMG_0986.jpg)
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Yes, you guys are right. I’m done with break barrels, if anything I’ll start saving up for a PCP. I could just take the check from Crosman and invest that towards a starter kit, but that is not my style as I “try” to be an honest person.
Have I ever mention how awesome of a support group you guys are? Well you all ARE! Haha, BTW Hello my name is Eat2muchrice and I have a problem.
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It's ok ....we're all here for the same reason.
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Yes, you guys are right. I’m done with break barrels, if anything I’ll start saving up for a PCP. I could just take the check from Crosman and invest that towards a starter kit, but that is not my style as I “try” to be an honest person.
Have I ever mention how awesome of a support group you guys are? Well you all ARE! Haha, BTW Hello my name is Eat2muchrice and I have a problem.
Spent days, weeks, and, months trying to find a gas powered break barrel that would shoot accurately enough to humanely take down Starlings. Went through all the tunes/tweaks and drove my wife crazy swapping guns out from Academy and Walmart. Started with the $240 NP Trail but couldn't see paying that much for something I had to work on to get it to shoot right. Then went to the $140 Wally specials thinking I didn't mind working on something that was cheaper. Finally realized my time was more valuable and no amount of tweaking was going to make these guns work the way they should have out of the box. Jumped to the Ben Disco and have not regretted it one bit. The gun itself is about the same price as the NP trail was but you do have to get the pump or tanks. However Wally does the $329 kit with gun and pump in .22 or $369 for .177 kit (haven't figured that out yet).
Andrew
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It's ok ....we're all here for the same reason.
Ya, we are a "support group" alright, supporting the habit! ;D ;)
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Hmmmm. $329 for Benjamin Discovery .22 with pump. That does seem to be a really good price.
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Hmmmm. $329 for Benjamin Discovery .22 with pump. That does seem to be a really good price.
it is...someone messed up ...i'm even thinking bout it.
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I’ve been researching more about the Disco and have come across a few threads of people having POI issues with them. At $329 it’s the only PCP I can currently afford and is still way over my budget, my fear is that even though many have recommended it to me will it just be another headache?
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Get a Pumper for now.
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I’ve been researching more about the Disco and have come across a few threads of people having POI issues with them. At $329 it’s the only PCP I can currently afford and is still way over my budget, my fear is that even though many have recommended it to me will it just be another headache?
"Rice" yes, what Pete said. If noise is not an issue, then a Benjamin 397 or 392 is a steal at about $158 + tax at WW on line. Pump 4 times for around home target shootin and 8 times to whack pests.
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Noise is an issue, I’ve already have had the cops out over 3 times cause of my airsoft guns. Annoying neighbors who call the cops that do not know the local laws and try to impose self justice. I keep printed local laws around to educate my local police force. Just to give you an idea of the type of neighbors I have, they have filled complaints to the city because my grass in my "backyard" is too long. Most recently called to cops over because of dog dropping in their front and blame my dog for it. Funny cause when I call the cops for help, like a broken car window they state to me “I’m wasting their time and they have better things to deal with”.
Sorry strayed way off topic.
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Whoa, just saw your "Marin County" sig info, that says it all!
Maybe you can have Pelosi over for some target "setting" sessions? ;)
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Whoa, just saw your "Marin County" sig info, that says it all!
Maybe you can have Pelosi over for some target "setting" sessions? ;)
Haha, it must be that bad that even you heard of Marin Counties reputation all the way out in Idaho. It’s common for me to deal with this stuff, born in Colorado I’ve also lived in Butt Montana and just last week at Costco someone threw their tobacco “spit cup” on my windshield while it was parked in the lot. Of course cops didn’t care, but oh well I grew up with this kind of stuff and have become stronger cause of it.
Whoops forgot the e in "Butte" Montana.
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Another late night up reading and shopping around for PCP. I'm currently tossed between a Discovery or saving up a few months for a Marauder.
Discovery is 1/2 the price, iron sights and much lighter.
Marauder is quieter, more power, 10 round mag, less bad review, more accurate, better trigger and looks better.
What is wrong with me, I'm still looking at another Crosman????? However I do like the "Made in USA" of both these rifles.
Hehe, I just noticed my title under my name is Barrel Cocker.
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crosman disco's and m-rod's are great quality guns and im sure you wont be disapointed in either. my vote goes to disco lots of aftermarket products and is based on a time tested 2260. lots of parts, tuning and info out there. i would just get a disco and the money difference could get you a good leapers scope if you like scopes. just my thoughts. theres a guy on here somewhere who had a sweet pcp disco clone in .25 shooting around 750-800 fps. and an awesome cammo paint job on the stock and tube. that will be my next gun close to what he has except for the cammo.
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Yah, Due to the price I'm leaning more towards the Disco. However they seem to be very load compared to the Marauder and nitro pistons. One plan is to quit smoking and use the money I saved for a Marauder. :o
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The Disco can have a good pop to it which a lot of people tame with TKO muzzle break. However, if the locals freak due to the airsoft guns, the sight of a Disco/Scope and muzzle break could send them over the edge. The Maruader might be your best bet?
As for shooting, either one will be a vast improvement over the Nitro. Having been one affected by the POI issue of the Disco, I still wouldn't hesitate to buy another as the fix is typically tightening the little breach screw and keeping the barrel clean. I've used mine to take Starlings as far out as 80 yards though typically its the 36 to 50 yard range.
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There is nothing wrong with the Crosman break barrel rifles. New air gunners buy them and think they will shoot bulls eyes out of the box.. Some will and some won't. Depending on the guy behind the trigger. Many new air gunners don't have a clue on how to shoot a break barrel springer or gas ram. Some will never be able to shoot them.. These guns are high production Chinese made guns. What do u expect? ??? I am amazed that anyone posting in this thread would even dare mention a high end Euro gun in the same post as a Crosman gun. Ridiculous!
Guys you get what you pay for and if you don't know how to shoot a springer or gas ram break barrel then buy yourself a PCP. Takes no talent to shoot them straight... :)
I want to add that Crosman over the last ten years has done more for the air gun community than any other manufacturer around. Innovation is the word I come up wiff. So I suggest you return your Crosman break barrels and buy yourself a PCP. Don't be bad mouthing Crosman on the GTA.
Wish I had caught this thread from the start.
Gene
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Hold the phone or keyboard Gene. Don't make the mistake of assuming someone is new to pellet guns just because they are new to this forum. Personally been shooting pellet guns for well over thirty years and have owned a Gamo Hunter 220 for almost twenty years and it groups very nicely at 30 yards and can even take soda cans out to 60 very easily.
As for cheap, wouldn't call $250 for the Benj Tail cheap. Don't expect to have to spend time and effort to get a $250 pellet gun to group better than a softball at 20 yards. I went through six different Trails before dropping down to the $100 cheaper Walmart special GPs. Three of the Benjamin Trails would not even break open without taking them apart. All of them suffered from the plastic washers wearing out before the Gas Ram was broken in correctly. For $250 I expect washers that last long enough to break the gun in. The other three guns all suffered from barrel sag requiring shimes just to get the scopes to center. One had a burr on the breach 1/4" thick and 1/4" high stopping the barrel from seating flush. On all three you could literally see the barrel was angled down. BTW, this was common on the Walmart model GPs too. None of these would every group within the size of a softball at 20 yards once they were broken in. New I could get them to shoot quarter size but the more you shoot them the less accurate the became. All total I went through at least 12 Crosman break barrels before jumping to the Disco.
Yes Crosman has done a lot for air gunning and their Disco/pump deal shows what is possible even at cheap prices. However that is no excuse for poor quality control. Most of the issues I saw fall under the QC umbrella. A good QC would easily have found most if not all the issues I saw with these guns.
Yes it takes a different skill set to accurately shoot a springer/piston air rifle but that doesn't mean the gun has to make this learning curve even more difficult due to quality issues. And as someone else stated, it's no good blaming the country of manufacture for these issues. It's Crosman's name on the gun and therefore their responsibility to make sure their spec's are being followed correctly. As well as listening to users feedback. There are hundreds of posts all over the net regarding the plastic breech washer's being a major issue to accuracy on break barrel guns (all manufacture's).
Besides who do you think is buying Crosman guns from Walmart and what do you think it does to Crosman's name when people run into these issues?
And if not on this forum, where else are people supposed to express their experiences with airguns. If I can save someone else the frustration then what's wrong with that? Didn't realize this forum was one where you were not allowed to state your experiences if it is disagreeable to a particular manufacture.
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I like the old addage, you get what you pay for! That being said, a $200 Crosman one cannot expect to be like a $700+ Beeman or Weihrauch or Theoben????? Yes, I too had a Benji Trail NP and loved the concept; the gun was nice as far as bluing, looks, and overall quality. Yes it needed the GRTIII trigger to get it to perform like it should from the box but that was only a $32 investment. After all that I even did the washer mod and polished all the internals almost. Once together, the gun was even smoother and a better cycling gun. End result, still a non-consistent POI.
Bottom line, I hope we can discuss our issues on any brand here even if we disagree with one another. I want honest feedback from actual owners here.
I hope this place does not become censored. If so I guess I will have to go elsewhere. I have already been banned from The Yellow Forum because I had an opinion that was very civil and done in a professional manner. Steve did not like it I guess and would erase my post then next thing I know I was kicked off. I hope his forum defunks because the way he runs things there. He wants no opinions if they differ from his.
Hands down this forum has been great and a tru 180 from the YF for sure and that is what makes it great.
Fact is, there will be haters of all brands by someone. Let them air out their complaints. I think all can read through the garbage and decipher truth.
Keep up the good work GTA!
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I agree for 200$ or more we shouldn't have to de-bur, replace seals, recrown barrels, replace barrel washers and fix barrel drooping. All have been common problems on this forum. Crosman has made probably hands down the best guns in air gunning. I love crosman will always buy crosman products. I have a GP and with some practice and about 60$ in washers, trigger and barrel recrown its a 25 yard tack driver. And i also agree don't compare 400$ euro guns to crosman 200$ guns, thats not a good comparison.
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These are the facts of life guys. Facts of Chineses springers... Fact is I have always had to tune a new Chinese/Chinese, Chinese, Spanish, Brizillian, Turkish springer in order for them to shoot with consistence, and accuracy. Fact is I have Crosman and Gamo springers that shoot as well as some of my $400.0 to $800.00 Euro springers.
I do appologize for referencing to you as a new air gunner. But normally that is the case with new air gunners and a shot gun patern or constilation of stars representing pellet holes... :)
Another fact is pricing is only going to go up. In 10 years of air gunning I have seen huge increases. Gamo for one is the main culpret, led by it's huge marketing department.
Gene
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Despite all the issues I had, they didn't stop me from buying the Discovery mainly because of the reviews it got here. I hope this forum is and will remain a place to get good honest feedback/advice on any gun regardless of who makes it.
There are enough sites out there where manufacture troll and post bogus information and this doesn't need to be another one.
With as much experience and knowledge that is here, it would be great if Crosman took notice of the comments and made some corrections in their lines. Besides the silly plastic washers which they all seems to use, I saw nothing major with the guns that couldn't be corrected with a few minor adjustments to the manufacturing line.
I really liked the looks and feel of the Trail and tried my hardest to get it to work. Drove my wife crazy getting her to take them back and exchange them. Tried one from every Academy in the area hoping it was just a "batch" issue and would get one that would work with a little TLC. All of them suffered from the barrel droop to different degrees, a couple so bad you couldn't get the scopes to bore sight even with shims. I too replaced the trigger, added brass washers, tighten screws etc etc all to no avail. never could get the POI consistent. Moved to the Walmart GP as I couldn't see spending all that time and extra expense on a gun that cost $250 but was willing to on one that was only $148. However saw pretty much the same issues with them. Never did get one to shoot right and it still drives me crazy because it should be that difficult! Not 100% convince it is just the guns either, would have liked to have some fixed sights to rule out the scopes. Heck on my Gamo Hunter I've been through at least twenty scopes try to find an "airgun" rated scope that could stand up to this springer. If it wasn't for the fixed sights, I'd long ago been convince the gun just couldn't shoot straight. However, after each scope I tried started giving me wondering POI, I'd pull it off and use the fixed sights see three holes inside 1/4" at twenty yards and know another scope bit the dust.
Even after all this I still plan on getting one of the refurbed Crosman gas piston guns from Airgun depot (kick myself daily for not getting the St Patty's days $79 special) and finally figuring out what is really going on. Only reason I didn't continue with the Walmart guns at the time was I needed a gun that I could count on to reliable kill Starlings every time. I can't stand these birds but still want them taken out humanely so a gun that will not hit where its aimed is no good for hunting.
Long story short, lets keep this site real.
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If you want your accuracy problems to go away, dump the spring guns and go get a Benjamin or Crosman or Daisy pumper!!!
Just kidding, they need work too. Good thing is, most of the time its JUST trigger work.
Really, IMO, you cannot get into a decent shooting spring gun with ANY horsepower for under 400....you just cant.
RWS 34 might be an exception, now, with less picky 8 land bbls and a new trigger assembly....but I dont know. They most always need a lube tune....
HW 50 starts to get you some decent hunting range power and shootability.
IF you buy any gun new under 200 bucks, better be ready to work on its some.
YOu can really come out ahead if you are willing to learn the in's and outs of tweaking them.
But 200 bucks, 20 for shipping. One month later...and alot more grey hair....you decide to ship it to a tuner...nother 20 bucks, maybe 100 bucks for a tune,heck, I dont know, and another 20 bucks back.
360 dollars later, you have a gun that will SHOOT with a gun like HW makes......but will not look or feel like an HW.
For 40-80 dollars less.
Dont get me wrong, Ive had HW guns, but I PREFER the Bam's and the Gamo's...why, because I took it upon myself to learn to tune my own guns. But the one thing the home tuner often doesnt account for is the time invested (some kind of reference to time is money, here) the frustration level, and the chance that it wont turn out right.
Still, anyway you look at it, you gotta pay to play.
If you think you'll get away in spring guns for less than 400 starting out, better think again.
God bless,
Farmer
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Gene, I didn’t mean to open a can of worms here. I’m not sure if you have followed through all the treads in regards to my experiences, I have posted links connecting them on the first post here. I’ll give you a short breakdown. I also want to say that having made new friends here I would hope this forum remains a place for us to express ourselves without fear of censorship. This is a wonderful place to meet fellow shooters, share addictions, tell stories and have friendly debates, let’s keep it that way.
Nitro Venom #1 .177. Center Point scope broke at 100 rounds, seems to be a common issue.
Nitro Venom #2 .22. Poor packaging by amazon. Cracked scope due package being dropped on corner where scope was packaged. Also have very poor welding on scope mount rail, pictures where posted.
Nitro Venom #3 .22. Suspected broken seal at around 300-400 rounds, during break-in period.
As for my shooting, I’ve gone from ½ groups at 25 yards to hitting the table legs that my pellet trap stands on. If I shoot that bad then please take all my firearms away from me and cut off my trigger finger.
I’m sure most knows how I feel about quality control. I’ll try and keep it short, as an American company that been around since our child hood they do not have an excuse for providing us with a product that does not perform out of the box. Although my first “Springer” I’ve own many air guns all of which are under $200 and have performed flawlessly and still do, over time I’ll slowly upgrade them and watch their performance grow, they soon turn out to be $1000 guns with countless hours of work. Like with everything in life you must start with a solid foundation. I don’t expect something that “cheap” to have all the bells and whistles but it must perform the basics of what it was designed for, all other upgrades and fine tuning should be the user’s option and not a requirement. Another note is how Crosman encourages these rifles for hunting, I’m sure we all can agree that hunting with something this inaccurate is irresponsible and a safety hazard. It’s just silly to think that a brand new product that needs to be stripped apart and have a complete tune while voiding its warranty that same day.
I also want to make it clear that I’m not trolling Crosman nor have it out for them. I’ve stated their customer service to be fair and am still willing to give another one of their products a try.
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This post is goin Toxic, time to get a Positive Spin going here. ???
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This post is goin Toxic, time to get a Positive Spin going here. ???
Kum Bah Yah My Lord; Kum Bah Yah! I agree. That being said I just won the 152 million dollar lottery and will start my own airgun business! Just kidding! ABout both that is. ;D
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So anyway...how about them Yankees? ;D
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Go ahead a spend a couple of bucks and get the Marauder 22. I just got through zeroing mine after a good O ring on the baffles. After 30 shots or 3 clips (the clips are what I like) by golly I was 3 on top of each other less than dime size in the Bulleye at 2000 psi. I agree I'm hard of hearing however I barely heard the shots. AT 35 yds and I was laying on the porch on my belly with a bipod. Gene_SC, I still like Crosman :D BTW no tuning yet got a chrony coming Friday. JSB Jumbo 18.13 so far.
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So anyway...how about them Yankees? ;D
They sure put a hurtin on my beloved Red Sox!
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I am in denial since the NFL season is over! But the draft is coming!
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LOL, you people are great! Day three of my decision to quit smoking and to save up for a Marauder, so far I haven’t gone cold turkey yet but have cut down to 3-4 cigs a day to avoid huge withdraws. Please note that 3-4 is A LOT for me as I’ve already been having cold sweats at night with chest pains in the mornings. I’m on my “last” pack that hopefully is my last that I’ll ever buy. The longest I’ve ever gone without nicotine in my body is probably about 10 hours in the last 15-20 or so years. So this could be huge for me and all the support to keep me motivated is greatly appreciated.
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Smoke more and you won't need the gun.
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Give him a stick of chewing gum and a balloon, and send him on his way.
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Haha, Well so much for finding a smoking support group in an air gun forum. I’ll still be taking that balloon, in blue please.
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Eats, just take a look at that pretty little baby in your profile picture, that should be enough to quit anything...just to be healthy and to see him/her grow up!
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True and I constantly tell myself that. Also living with the fear that I possibly already have developed cancer in my upper gums is sickening to the point where I have not told my wife or seen a doctor about it. Must keep my teeth and have new gun! End of day 3 and I’ve smoke 4.5, tomorrow I’ll do better.
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True and I constantly tell myself that. Also living with the fear that I possibly already have developed cancer in my upper gums is sickening to the point where I have not told my wife or seen a doctor about it. Must keep my teeth and have new gun! End of day 3 and I’ve smoke 4.5, tomorrow I’ll do better.
So anyway...how about them Yankees? :o
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True and I constantly tell myself that. Also living with the fear that I possibly already have developed cancer in my upper gums is sickening to the point where I have not told my wife or seen a doctor about it. Must keep my teeth and have new gun! End of day 3 and I’ve smoke 4.5, tomorrow I’ll do better.
You can do it! I gave up porn! Just kidding. I mean, no porn in my life! Ahhh heck this post has gone way south now to recuperate! Cheering for you!
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LOL, you people are great! Day three of my decision to quit smoking and to save up for a Marauder, so far I haven’t gone cold turkey yet but have cut down to 3-4 cigs a day to avoid huge withdraws. Please note that 3-4 is A LOT for me as I’ve already been having cold sweats at night with chest pains in the mornings. I’m on my “last” pack that hopefully is my last that I’ll ever buy. The longest I’ve ever gone without nicotine in my body is probably about 10 hours in the last 15-20 or so years. So this could be huge for me and all the support to keep me motivated is greatly appreciated.
Quitting cigs is an idea I've had for some time, and I probably should join your effort. More power to ya. Not an easy or pleasant undertaking. Tell your wife you're going to be needing lots and lots and lots of stress relief ;)
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Better yet let him quit cold turkey and give him a new gun :D
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Hilarious! I don’t follow sports much but I do know the Yankees don’t have a chance. As for porn, well I think it’s safe to say we have all giving up porn…..”chough, chough”
Today I told my wife about my plan and gum problem, so she scheduled a dentist appointment in two weeks. She is a little scared so I told her don’t worry, worst case scenario I’ll have two blinging gold front teeth and a glossy plastic nose. Don’t know why she didn’t laugh at that.
Paul, please do join this effort. This is probably the most serious I’ve worked myself up so far. Also this will double the chances of at least one of us quitting. Create a reasonable game plan and share it with us and too stay on topic with Air Guns choose your dream rifle as a reward. Even if you buy the most expensive air rifle on the market you’ll still have saved money from quitting smoking.
My plan is to go 30 day from my last cig, on that 30th day I will buy me a Marauder .22 with pump. I have 7 cigs left in my last pack that I’m trying to ration “survivor style” as to not hit huge withdraws and go insane on my family. I’m taking about 3-5 hits every few hours then put it out in a 9mm brass case. Once I’m out then I’m out and all heck will start to kick in, but the countdown to 30 days starts. If I can pass this 30 day mark I believe I’ll never pick up a cigarette again. I’ll also print out a list of things to keep me motivated like, losing my teeth, cost of $8 per pack, bad breath, smelling horrible, new air gun, unconditional pleasure from wife on demand, watching my children grow and setting a good example for them and the list can go on and on. I might even write it all down on my arm with a sharpie as not to forget or do prison style marks counting the days.
Some people might think this is all silly, but I know how hooked one can get on cigs. Some say it’s so easy to quit and they have friends or have done it themselves, but everyone is different and drugs affect people in different ways. Some get more addicted then others and some just have smoked more or longer. Some have the will power and strength to do it that others don’t, as for me it has become a lifestyle and I have not lived an adult day of my life without. I know without nicotine in my system I’ll start having anxiety attacks, uncontrollable especially in public my heart will start racing and I have a hard time controlling my breathing. I know it’s just a phase that will pass and I must deal with it sooner or later. So it’s going to be all about you and when it’s good for you to start, but I do know it won’t kill you trying. We got your back, let’s do it PAUL! I know you have many friends in this forum so please I ask them to encourage you.
Back to air guns, what is the best value for a PCP hand pump?
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All following remarks are my opinion only. Do with it as you wish, or not.
Re: Quitting the smoking habit...
As a former 2-3 pack a day smoker, I have some experience with the subject.
I smoked from the age of 14 until I was 40. I quit cold turkey in 1980. My wife continued to smoke until she had a near fatal heart attack in 1990. Real tobacco cigarettes. Not burning rags like today's products. High nicotine, high tar. Marlboro, Winston, Lucky Strike, Camels..
I learned one thing. If you really want to quit you must do a few things.
1. Stop making excuses and justifying the difficulty of your choice.
2. Don't talk about it, just do it.
3. Remove ALL paraphernalia permanently. No cigarettes, lighters, ashtrays, matches should remain in your home, car, boat, gun case, desk at home or work. Throw them away immediately where they cannot be retrieved. If you are truly quitting, they are no longer of any value.
4. Avoid any situation where smoking is occurring for at least 3 weeks. It takes 3 weeks to make or break a habit. No excuses.
5. Get out in the great ol' outdoors and do something physical, like shooting (of course).
6. If you fail, which you won't, don't cry about it to anyone. Your choice, not ours, that you didn't take yourself seriously.
Remember, if you're having health problems now, they will only get worse without care.
Get to the doctor, dentist, ENT specialists and get it taken care of.
By the way. from your last post, it sounds like you've got yourself "Hung By the Tongue". Quit making it more difficult for yourself.
Lecture over, time for my nap...
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Thanks Deadeye,
Your right, I must get rid of all traces and methods of smoking before I find myself licking the ash trays . Out of mind out of sight, I'll have it all cleaned out today. Hope all is well with your wife now that she has quit. Thank you sir.
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I don't know how we got on this but I quit when they went from .39 per pack to 35 cents in Jan 1974. Man I thoughtthat was thend of the world. (A nickle wow) Cold turkey and I was on 5 packs every 2 days. And going to the Dr. at least once a week. And now I really got an expensive habit. A Marauder, hand pump hundres of pellets and a shoebox on the way. I got a feeling it ain't over yet cause the fat lady hadn't sung yet. :D
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eat2muchrice,
Thanks for your concern about the wife. She survived the first attack and thankfully quit smoking cold turkey (proper motivation).
She also survived a 2nd heart attack last year and is still kicking, just not as high. She has many issues besides heart attacks; I'm getting a good medical education from all her troubles. Maybe I'll be a doctor in my next reincarnation.
I'd say Good Luck, but luck has nothing to do with it. Just steely-jawed determination...
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I bought an electronic cigarette...ZERO affect on your health. Comes in any flavor you want.
80 bucks for my kit...comes with two. So 40 a piece basically. Each battery lasts about 8 hours of continuously vaping. No lingering bad odors...smells good. And I can do it at ANY restaurant or bar. Where everyone else goes outside to smell like nasty smoke
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Deadeye-Your wife sounds like a tough gal, she knows if she isn’t around then the trash will never get put out. Please make sure you guys enjoy every minute together. I know what it’s like almost losing my wife months before our wedding in 2004. She spent over 2 weeks in ICU with zero white blood cell count with a constant 180-190 heart rate and fever. Long story short the Doctor ignored my warnings about her having side effects to new prescription, stating to me “I’m just looking for problems”. Grrrrrr.
Aznboi-I’m allergic to those. My face puffs up all red for some reason, they do seem to work great if I could use them.
Bnowlin- How is my….your new Marauder working out for you?
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End of day 4 since I’ve last ran out of cigs. Been avoiding people and going out in public. Hairs in my throat have grown back and keep me coughing all day and night. Constantly search for anything possible to smoke, good thing I cleaned out everything. I can feel the urges get weaker day by day.
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I for one hope you are successful!!! ;D The M-rod would be a nice reward besides better health. 8) Bear
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Boy, this topic sure did veer off course lol.
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TTIBS
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So, hows the Crosman nitro venom?
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wow those pellets are all over the place , i hope you get it under control , happy shooting to ya !
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When you can get a RWS 34 for a about $230 at PA (after their bi-weekly coupon comes in your inbox), you should never even look at Chinese or Turkish or Spanish springers. The 34 just simply works and... well, that's it. It just works.
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Day 12, I cheated!! Bought me a swisher stoggy smoked 1/2 and tossed it away, man did that taste great!
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I’m starting a new post for this topic, it is a continuation to another post I started linked here.
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28767.0.html (http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28767.0.html)
I GIVE UP on you Crosman! This is my third Nitro Venom Dusk and the quality between each one is considerable noticeable. I have tried everything possible next to completely tearing your rifle down and rebuild it. I have spent countless hours reading, watching and learning, I’ve pulled up almost every since link on the whole entire internet. Yes, I’m mad and frustrated, I’ve spent over a month trying to make your rifles work. I’m not asking for much, just a decent shooting rifle that is reliable for one to go hunting or plucking with. You have taken something that was supposed to be fun and relaxing then turned it into a nightmare of aggravation. You have ruined this sport for me.
For those who have been following my progress with my Crosman Nitro Venom dusks, I finished grinding though the 500 rounds for break in. Today the weather was perfect so I decided to go out again, my shots got progressively worse and worse, just like the previous Nitro Venom rifles that I had returned. Again I tried everything to fix the issue form remounting the scope, tighten all screws, cleaning barrel with dry patches. I’ve already spent over $60 in different pellet types and bought special bore cleaner, new scope, GTR III trigger and brushes to cleaning. My groups are now so bad that it looks like I sprayed the target with a shotgun. Honestly I didn’t think the rifle could cause me such a headache, I’ve read bad reviews, but thought I’d be able to fix it, but not with these rifles. I should not have to void my warranty stripping it apart and rebuilding it for it to shoot decent. This is ridiculous and don’t blame the Chinese manufacturer for ones failure to require quality control, I own my own company that manufactures our products in China and when it come to quality it’s “MY” job to ensure everything meets specifications. If something does not meet my satisfaction they (China) will change it till it does, they just build what they are told to and will change everything from type of material to quality of work if and when told to. China does make a few great products and a lot of bad ones, but 99% of the bad are only because of our corporate greed and laziness to make the fastest buck possible.
Sorry and thanks for listening to my ranting, I’m just going to print out my return labels then relax for the rest of my weekend. Once I steam off a bit I might start looking into a new rifle.
My Crosman Nitro Venom Dust, I didn't know these rifles can outline a star map.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7221/7077853811_734f49ac4f_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049822@N03/7077853811/)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/43049822@N03/7077853811/#) (http://www.flickr.com/people/43049822@N03/)
'Lo Toomuchrice....
Realizing this is an old post, I have to say that my .22 caliber Nitro Venom Dusk is shooting very well. I bought it last September but I'm just now beginning to shoot it more. I'm reasonably sure I have less than a tin of WalMart Crosman Premiers through it. So far it's printing good groups ~3/4 inch~ at 10 meters but the more I shoot it I'm sure they'll tighten up considerably. It's shown pretty tight groups since I bought it and I haven't had any of the problems you mentioned. Perhaps I haven't fired it enough? Depending on the weather, I hope to change that this coming week.
Larry
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Hey Chip,
Glad to hear you’re having a good experience with your Venom. I say it’s a gamble when buying these rifles, I’ve read some good and bad reviews about them. Personally I just have bad luck and after three attempts I gave up. No one problem was the same with the rifle which leads me to think its poor quality control. The last Venom was shooting ½ to 3/4 inch groups at 25 yards until the seal started breaking around the 300th shot. With everything I’ve learned in this forum I’m sure one can make them shoot nicely, but only after being gutted and tuned. From the looks of it you have a large collection of AR’s and would know your way around them very well. Me, I’m just looking for the “one” gun that I can grab and shoot without worrying about its reliability.
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Hey Chip,
Glad to hear you’re having a good experience with your Venom. I say it’s a gamble when buying these rifles, I’ve read some good and bad reviews about them. Personally I just have bad luck and after three attempts I gave up. No one problem was the same with the rifle which leads me to think its poor quality control. The last Venom was shooting ½ to 3/4 inch groups at 25 yards until the seal started breaking around the 300th shot. With everything I’ve learned in this forum I’m sure one can make them shoot nicely, but only after being gutted and tuned. From the looks of it you have a large collection of AR’s and would know your way around them very well. Me, I’m just looking for the “one” gun that I can grab and shoot without worrying about its reliability.
There is such a gun...The last one in my signature.
All others have kits and been tuned.
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Hey Chip,
Glad to hear you’re having a good experience with your Venom. I say it’s a gamble when buying these rifles, I’ve read some good and bad reviews about them. Personally I just have bad luck and after three attempts I gave up. No one problem was the same with the rifle which leads me to think its poor quality control. The last Venom was shooting ½ to 3/4 inch groups at 25 yards until the seal started breaking around the 300th shot. With everything I’ve learned in this forum I’m sure one can make them shoot nicely, but only after being gutted and tuned. From the looks of it you have a large collection of AR’s and would know your way around them very well. Me, I’m just looking for the “one” gun that I can grab and shoot without worrying about its reliability.
There is such a gun...The last one in my signature.
All others have kits and been tuned.
Haha the last one on your list is only a $1700 rifle 8).
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sorry to bring up such an old thread I got reading it and couldn't stop I am curious as to what happened to the OP did he quit and did he get a pcp? I has been a year.