GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => Air Gun Gate => Topic started by: PakProtector on March 25, 2012, 08:34:00 PM
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hey-Hey!!!,
Just got my 10 yo son shooting my wife's 5mm D34. It is too big; he's 4' 8" and even if I put him on a Rack he'd be stretched out on it. Cocking effort is also more than he can stand past a few shots. So, who makes something with a 20 lb cocking effort with a short stock to fit a young shooter? I don't want to go much past D34 pricing. Now if y'all really want to tease me, point me towards a 5mm...:)
cheers,
Douglas
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Here's one that might work https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-bronco-target-pro-air-rifle?m=2709 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-bronco-target-pro-air-rifle?m=2709)
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Contact Mike Melick. The B-12 maybe just what you need.
Nathan
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You might try this one at walmart
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ruger-Explorer-Youth-Rifle-.177-Pellet/15137011 (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ruger-Explorer-Youth-Rifle-.177-Pellet/15137011)
I am not familiar with its performance but I am sure other forum members might be familiar with it. Also you might be able to go to the store and size it.
DT
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I would second a B12, great Sub 25 yard gun lube tuned for under $85 (Mike Mellick Flying air guns). Has great glow sights but if you want to go peep I would get the Bronco pre outfitted with peep $150ish (Pyramyd Air). If money isn't an object then go HW30s for $300+ (Pyramyd & Others).
Mark
Disclaimer, I have 3 B12's and have been involved with infecting others so far to the tune of 3 cases of 5 each at our start up club, we are going to order another soon....
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The Beeman R7/ HW30 but its probably out of your price range. Second hand they do show up from time to time. The B12 is real nice and its price leaves lots of cash for ammo.
One I would like to recomend but can't, cause I cannot get one to try, is the izzy 60 or 61. No ones got the darn things.
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The Beeman R7/ HW30 but its probably out of your price range. Second hand they do show up from time to time. The B12 is real nice and its price leaves lots of cash for ammo.
One I would like to recomend but can't, cause I cannot get one to try, is the izzy 60 or 61. No ones got the darn things.
I just got one (traded a B26 shelf queen to a fellow member), a rare metal receiver 61, its great but for a generic youth rifle I would recommend the metal/wood B12, its more rifle "like" if that makes sense.
https://picasaweb.google.com/105582855711747336970/B12IZ?authkey=Gv1sRgCMuDuZnt8qW9xAE#5724000105885288034
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X3, or thereabouts on a B12 - may be described as a poor man's R7.
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Another vote for a B-12 from Mike Melick.
Here's what I wrote in a similar thread @ a week ago:
"At an ounce shy of 6# on my old kitchen scale, a bit over 40" OAL and with an adult size 14" pull it's a near clone of an R-7 dimensionally both inside and out and can be easily tuned to produce similar power..
Cocks smoothly---and very easily---without the 'funny noises' normally associated with Chinese guns. The simple trigger is stiff but very smooth----would be acceptable as is for a field gun. Good solid thunk with no spring noises or thrashing about on firing. In short much better than previous experience with Chinese products had predicted!
The B-12 is not a hunter---tho under chosen circumstances I feel confident that I could use it to put protein on the table. The B-12 is a very pleasant plinker, all 'round fun gun and casual target rifle that cocks with two fingers and is light enough and friendly enough to be an all-day companion in assaults on Hickory nuts, cans, targets of opportunity and paper. It would make an ideal 'urban sniper' for defense of bird feeder and Martin house as well since it is virtually silent except for muted mechanical noises.. It passes my criteria for user-friendly with flying colors. In other words it will fulfill over 90% of what most do with their airguns and boosts the fun-factor exponentially while doing so!"
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I've done a lot of research on this myself (trying to find a suitable gun for a friend's son), and I haven't found anything I'm completely satisfied with for the price range. I bought a B1 and did some significant modification (replaced both seals, full deburr, custom seal seat), and I'm still unhappy with the quality of wood on the stock after hours spent on a complete refinish. It is an okay shooter, but no safety is another big problem. I have ordered a TF39 to play around with. I'll let you know how that turns out. It seems like a pretty decent value.
I've also been considering the Ruger Explorer, but I don't like synthetic stocks. I want the kid to feel like he's got a real air rifle, not some cheap toy. The Bronco sounds great, but it's a little pricey for a child's gun. Same with the B12, and I know if Mike Mellick tunes it, then there won't be any room for improvement by my humble skills. :)
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NOT BUYING A B12 TUNED FROM MIKE MELICK IS MAKING A BIG MISTAKE. YOUR CHOICE........
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I am surprised that nobody has suggested the IZH60 or 61. Very low cocking effort, short and adjustable length of pull, and under $100. OK, it does not have blazing speed, just blazing accuracy.
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I did above, well sort of.
I am surprised that nobody has suggested the IZH60 or 61. Very low cocking effort, short and adjustable length of pull, and under $100. OK, it does not have blazing speed, just blazing accuracy.
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Here's one that might work https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-bronco-target-pro-air-rifle?m=2709 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-bronco-target-pro-air-rifle?m=2709)
^+1 kis
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+1 on the B12.
I've got a full-tune B12 from Mike Melick and it's fantastic.
Bought it for my 10 yo daughter... she can cock it. Fun to shoot.
Accurate and loves cheap pellets -- Daisy Wads, Peak Wads, Crosman Premiere Hollow points.
Buy the B12 from Mike M.
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Being a short guy, I know what your son is dealing with.
I don't fit full size adult rifles, I fit and shoot junior size rifles.
Measure his Length of Pull (LoP), to get an idea of fit.
Bend the elbow 90 degrees.
Bend the trigger finger 90 degrees, like it is resting on a trigger.
Measure the distance between the pad on his trigger finger to the inside of his elbow.
This will give you a starting point to work from.
The LoP of the rifle that he can fit will depend on several other factors including the shooting position/stance. Prone or leaning forward on a bench, he will be able to shoot a rifle with a longer LoP than shooting in an upright position; upright on a bench or standing. This is because when leaning forward his head is moved closer further forward.
Example, my measured LoP is 12.5 inches. In the standing position I shoot rifles with 11-3/4" and 12" LoP. Off a bench, leaning forward (carry over from shooting powder burners where you have to lean forward to handle the recoil), I can handle a 14" LoP.
Then send me your email via private mail and I will send you an Excel spreadsheet that I have collected data on various junior size rifles. Every junior size rifle has a compromise of one kind or another.
Almost any wood stocked rifle can be cut down to fit the LoP.
Cutting a synthetic stock will be much harder, as the ability to cut the stock and put a butt pad on depends on the construction of the stock.
BUT...what you can't do anything about is the trigger reach. This is the distance from the pistol grip to the trigger. IOW, when you grip the pistol grip of the rifle, how far does your trigger finger have to reach to reach the trigger. For a kid with small hands (or even an adult) this is a real problem.
BTW, my 2 favorite are Daisy 953 and the IZH-60 or 61.
Daisy is a SSP, so no recoil/vibration, easy to shoot. BUT you MUST debur the trigger, the stock trigger is LOUSEY. It feels like dragging a 2x4 over a rough road.
The IZH has a GREAT trigger. It also "looks cool," like it came off the StarWars set. And it has a fully adjustable stock, which is great for a growing boy. The 60 is a single shot, the 61 is a 5 shot repeater.
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The b16 from Mike Melick is also another great option. I have one in .177 and it is a nice little shooter. It is very much like the ruger explorer.
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Jason
Would you measure the Length of Pull of your B16 for me.
I have a note that the Ruger Explorer has a 11-7/8" LoP, which seems quite short, but would be just right for a junior rifle.
I want to update my junior rifle chart with the correct LoP.
thanks
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I'll measure it tonight and post back here.
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Douglas. I have an HW30. Your welcome to come by with your son and see if it fits him. It may be worth a trip up to Precision Airgun supply in Dryden. Jim will let you guys handle all sorts of stuff to see what works for him.
Dave
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Mike posted early this AM that he's running a special on deburred and lubed B-12s this week for $75 delivered.
<http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28032.0/topicseen.html>
It would be a mistake to pass this up if you want a light springer for any purpose! Tom
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&^^&, Your making this very hard for me to pass up on one !
Mike posted early this AM that he's running a special on deburred and lubed B-12s this week for $75 delivered.
<http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php/topic,28032.0/topicseen.html>
It would be a mistake to pass this up if you want a light springer for any purpose! Tom
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Just talked to him not 10 minutes ago very nice to talk to. ;D I will definitely be ordering one this payday. ;D ;D
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hey-Hey!!!,
Thank y'all very much for an interesting discussion. Spoke to Mike and will be taking one of his tuned XS12's in .177. That price tag is just too sweet....that's Red Ryder territory with performance waaaaay out front. Now I have to buy two sizes ov pellets... >:(
cheers,
Douglas
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Jason
Would you measure the Length of Pull of your B16 for me.
I have a note that the Ruger Explorer has a 11-7/8" LoP, which seems quite short, but would be just right for a junior rifle.
I want to update my junior rifle chart with the correct LoP.
thanks
The lop on my b16 is 13.5".
Glad to hear you decided on a rifle from Mike. He is a great guy. You are gonna love it.
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500) https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/) http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html) http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html)
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/condor00/Album%202/Schutze.gif)
RWS Shutze in 177 for $175.oo at Airguns of Arizona, looks like a winner to me. With only 19 pounds cocking effort required, for 580 fps mv advertised~
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I really wanted to recommend the Shutze but could not. I purchased two of them from Pyramyd for my kids and both had defective triggers. I even had one of them replaced, that made 3 that were bad. That was strike 3 for me.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500) https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/) http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html) http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html)
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/condor00/Album%202/Schutze.gif)
RWS Shutze in 177 for $175.oo at Airguns of Arizona, looks like a winner to me. With only 19 pounds cocking effort required, for 580 fps mv advertised~
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Doug
Who will be shortening the stock?
The data that I have says the XS-B12 has a 14" LoP. That's is not a junior rifle, it is an adult size rifle. It is too long for a kid not 5' tall.
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Doug
Who will be shortening the stock?
The data that I have says the XS-B12 has a 14" LoP. That's is not a junior rifle, it is an adult size rifle. It is too long for a kid not 5' tall.
XS-12 is shorter than the XS-B12
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/diana-rws-schutze?m=1500) https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2008/03/rws-diana-schutze-part-1-new-youth-breakbarrel-rifle/) http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html (http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/rws.html) http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html (http://www.airgundepot.com/rws-sch-tze-177-air-rifle.html)
(http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/condor00/Album%202/Schutze.gif)
RWS Shutze in 177 for $175.oo at Airguns of Arizona, looks like a winner to me. With only 19 pounds cocking effort required, for 580 fps mv advertised~
Actually one ov the things I considered was another D34. There is no butt plate so some careful carpentry would solve that issue and for cocking effort I figured somebody could come up with a lighter spring. At some point it could be re-powered...:) In any case, I fugured the XS12 with Mike's tune-to-serviceability on it for $75 delivered was gong to work fine. Ov course that puts me close to the old mountain bike situation where the bikes in the bed were worth more than the truck...the 'scope will be a significant fraction of the price of the rifle.
cheers,
Douglas
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The Mendoza peep fits great and aligns just right with the B12.
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/williams-diopter-sight?a=2003 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/williams-diopter-sight?a=2003)
https://picasaweb.google.com/105582855711747336970/2252012?authkey=Gv1sRgCPWk87nUn8TktAE#5713254655388315154 (https://picasaweb.google.com/105582855711747336970/2252012?authkey=Gv1sRgCPWk87nUn8TktAE#5713254655388315154)
The replaceable recticle front globe off of a B28/RWS 350 fits on the front if you want something finer than the OEM true glow. I do find for a 6 O'clock sight in, that the standard true glow works pretty darn good.
Mark
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@Raizer
I was just on the Xixico site and the XS12 and the XS-B12 have the same dimensions, 40.5 inches long, only the velocity is different. XS12 being the lower power version.
http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html (http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html)
http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html (http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html)
@Doug
That is similar to putting a $100 Gamo sight on a $80 Daisy 953.
You can start him off with red dot rather than a scope. Since the red dot sight does not have any magnification, just use larger targets. I use a red dot on my starter/trainer rifles. Unless he likes using the scope.
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@Raizer
I was just on the Xixico site and the XS12 and the XS-B12 have the same dimensions, 40.5 inches long, only the velocity is different. XS12 being the lower power version.
http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html (http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html)
http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html (http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html)
@Doug
That is similar to putting a $100 Gamo sight on a $80 Daisy 953.
You can start him off with red dot rather than a scope. Since the red dot sight does not have any magnification, just use larger targets. I use a red dot on my starter/trainer rifles. Unless he likes using the scope.
I'm guessing, it looks like a simple spring change, though the stock is bobbed straight on the XS B12 (mine are angled like the XS12). The fps I get with mine from MM coincide roughly with the 630/480 listed on the B12 with lighter pellets. To be honest when Mike suggested the .22 I figured naw its to slow, but its actually fun to shoot.
Mark
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@Raizer
I was just on the Xixico site and the XS12 and the XS-B12 have the same dimensions, 40.5 inches long, only the velocity is different. XS12 being the lower power version.
http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html (http://www.xisicousa.com/xs-b12.html)
http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html (http://xisicousa.com/xs12.html)
Site I read the other night said something like 36" for the XS12, I didn't think of checking the Xisco site :-[
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@Raizer
Maybe there is a different model?