GTA
Support Equipment For PCP/HPA/CO2 and springers ,rams => Optics, Range estimation & related subjects => Topic started by: Methuselah on May 31, 2023, 05:41:16 PM
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I get that this will be moved to the optics gate, but wanted "initial visibility" --- please give it a few hours on this gate?
My other post criteria looking for a scope included AO (or side focus), lifetime warranty, low power, and etched reticle without IR. Now that I've looked and find the only scope that impressed me all-around was Westhunter with short warranty period, It's obvious I'm going to have to compromise.
Leupold VX Freedom line seem hardy, boast clear glass (presume etched reticle), but the ones fitting my budget lack AO. I'm considering the 4X28, 2-7X33, 3-9X33 ($3-$400 price range), as opposed to the WestHunter Optics HD 4-16x44 FFP Riflescope, 30 mm Tube First Focal Plane at $179.
That said, I find virtually no information on how much parallax error to expect at any range save for the 60 yards they seem to be adjusted for.
Comments said the 2-7 will provide clear sight picture at close-in range at lowest power, but very poor DOF there. None of the three Leupold scopes have information how close they will focus and what the expected parallax error will be at closest focus range or other various ranges you would expect to see for a pellet rifle or .22 PB.
I'd prefer not to be the guinea pig here and buy all three knowing I can't afford to keep them ... so any 1st hand comments would be very appreciated!
P.S. I was initially considering the Bushnell Engage 3-9X40 at $102 + shipping on Amazon, but I am leery because I own two Bushnell scopes and find them large, heavy, clunky, and overall unimpressive. One was 50% markdown at WallyWorld, the other a thrown-in with a used airgun.
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Steve,
For low power airguns that are expected to hit small targets, I insist on scope parallax being adjustable down to 10 yards/meters. On a more powerful platform, being off by an inch or two on a larger target may not matter. Official airgun targets are small, and so are vermin noggins.
I suspect that the forum has people qualified and / or experienced to quantify your parallax error question. I will see if I can invite such a person to the party.
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Moved to the Optics Gate.
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Sorry, I can't quantify parallax error.... but you can test it yourself.... Set the scope up rigidly, look at your target and move your head side to side and/or up and down as you look through it.... The distance the crosshairs move on the target is the error that can occur on shooting....
The better your cheek weld, and the more consistent you place your head on the stock, the less parallax will bother you.... If your smallest target is tin cans, and the scope parallax is set to 60 yards, it may not be an issue.... If you are trying to hit the head of a squirrel at closer range, that can be problematic if you can't adjust the parallax....
Bob
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There's formulas for maximum parallax error. I believe it has to do with magnification and objective size. Parallax error doesn't really have to be an issue. As long as your eye is centered in the scope there's no parallax error.
I use a Hawke 4x32 Vantage with a 100 yard fixed parallax on my HW50 for squirrels. I shoot the gun from 10 to 100 yards. It'll stack pellets into a single round hole at 10 yards where parallax should be the greatest. I love this gun/scope combination.
The effects of parallax error is way over emphasized.All you have to do is train yourself to consistently look down the center of the scope. Your eye is centered when you get an evenly edged sharp vignette. You should always center it anyway but after consciously doing it a while it'll become second nature.
As far as the Leupolds go i can't help you. I imagine they would be clear at 15 yards or less at low power. My 100 yard Hawke 4x is clear at 11 yards out. I also have 3 2-7x32 non AO (100 yard) Hawke Vantage scopes on powder burners and they're focused under 10 yards on 2 or 3x.
Hth
Ron
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Sounds reasonable to me, Bob and Ron. I guess I assumed the point of a scope was that there was only one pair of things to align. I get that consistent head to scope alignment can be had from consistent cheek weld.
Basically this suggests that if you shoot well, you can compensate for less than ideal equipment. Which is true. Also, that while a "small eye box" scope can be annoying, it can help train you to place your head more consistently on the stock.
Because I shoot mostly offhand, I do not like a lot of scope magnification. It amplifies my wobble by causing "feedback" to make it worse. I am one of those old timers that prefers a peep sight, and uses reading glasses to see the front sight. That said, there is no denying that having the target and scope clearly visible is an advantage. I just prefer low power scopes; where from the sound of it, parallax is less of a problem.
Thanks for answering the OP's question and educating me.
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Steve,
I agree with not taking a handy little rifle and spoiling its feel with a large scope. A lot of air rifles come with cheap scopes in a package deal. I don't want anything that causes eye strain, and that shoots worse for me than open sights. Then, cheap equals junk. Or, I am not good enough to compensate...
I wonder if a red dot might better suit your needs.
Anyway, you might try the Daisy "gate" to see what scopes people use on their 880:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=186.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?board=186.0)
Also, the GTA search engine is not very good. Try this instead: www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agatewaytoairguns.org+scope+for+Daisy+880 (http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Agatewaytoairguns.org+scope+for+Daisy+880)
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Sounds reasonable to me, Bob and Ron. I guess I assumed the point of a scope was that there was only one pair of things to align. I get that consistent head to scope alignment can be had from consistent cheek weld.
Basically this suggests that if you shoot well, you can compensate for less than ideal equipment. Which is true. Also, that while a "small eye box" scope can be annoying, it can help train you to place your head more consistently on the stock.
Because I shoot mostly offhand, I do not like a lot of scope magnification. It amplifies my wobble by causing "feedback" to make it worse. I am one of those old timers that prefers a peep sight, and uses reading glasses to see the front sight. That said, there is no denying that having the target and scope clearly visible is an advantage. I just prefer low power scopes; where from the sound of it, parallax is less of a problem.
Thanks for answering the OP's question and educating me.
Like Bayman, I have a low power 1-4x20 scope (100-yard parallax) I have no problems shooting tight groups with at any viable distance.
I’m pellet on pellet with it from 10-25 yards.
Wish the reticle was thinner though.
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So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.
A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me. Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards. That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.
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So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.
A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me. Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards. That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.
I think I have a photo of my 25-yard grouping, but I mounted the scope at that time on a Kidd barreled rimfire just to see how good the optic was w/o the hassle of reloading for every shot.
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So far it's had Hatsan Optima's and this current no-name 4X, not particularly conducive to a decent cheek weld because of very short relief :o
Yes though, 100%, good form would render the parallax part of the situation moot.
I'm still curious, but thanks to all those who chimed in I believe my answer is the 2-7 and 3-9 at low power will very likely focus close-in, and the 4X28 from Amazon comments seems to be some will some won't.
In my saved basket were WestHunter HD 4-16X44 FFP, and Bushnell Engage 4-16X44 @ $178.99 and $332.49 respectively.
I ruled out the WestHunter on its lack of warranty, and the Bushnell on size/weight plus just figured for similar coin there were these Leopold...
If anyone thinks I should reconsider on the Bushnell Engage, it is an AO ---- any thoughts?
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The Engage has very clear optics.
Mine was a 1” 4-12x40 SF.
Sold it though ‘cuz of the cluttered Deploy MOA reticle.
Hard to determine what hash I was at, as they’re too close, fine, and sans numbers.
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Mine was made in South Korea.
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Please don't read my confessions of a lack of skill as doubt about what can be achieved, with enough practice.
A picture of one group may or may not be representative of what a person regularly achieves. So, if I had doubt, I need more than one group. But I don't have any reason to doubt you.
So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.
A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me. Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards. That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.
I think I have a photo of my 25-yard grouping, but I mounted the scope at that time on a Kidd barreled rimfire just to see how good the optic was w/o the hassle of reloading for every shot.
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What about these: 3 yds to infinity parallax adjustment
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-bugbuster-3-12x32-scope-1-3-moa-ao-mil-dot-reticle-med-dovetail?a=8857 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-bugbuster-3-12x32-scope-1-3-moa-ao-mil-dot-reticle-med-dovetail?a=8857)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-12x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-3-moa-1-tube?a=7972 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-12x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-3-moa-1-tube?a=7972)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-ez-tap-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4721 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-ez-tap-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4721)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-compact-cqb-bug-buster-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4222 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-compact-cqb-bug-buster-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4222)
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Please don't read my confessions of a lack of skill as doubt about what can be achieved, with enough practice.
A picture of one group may or may not be representative of what a person regularly achieves. So, if I had doubt, I need more than one group. But I don't have any reason to doubt you.
So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.
A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me. Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards. That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.
I think I have a photo of my 25-yard grouping, but I mounted the scope at that time on a Kidd barreled rimfire just to see how good the optic was w/o the hassle of reloading for every shot.
You are a gentleman, Sub sir, always have been.
You, Mr. Rib, and Mr. John/Fuzzy are like the patriarchs of this forum 👍
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I get that this will be moved to the optics gate, but wanted "initial visibility" --- please give it a few hours on this gate?
My other post criteria looking for a scope included AO (or side focus), lifetime warranty, low power, and etched reticle without IR. Now that I've looked and find the only scope that impressed me all-around was Westhunter with short warranty period, It's obvious I'm going to have to compromise.
Leupold VX Freedom line seem hardy, boast clear glass (presume etched reticle), but the ones fitting my budget lack AO. I'm considering the 4X28, 2-7X33, 3-9X33 ($3-$400 price range), as opposed to the WestHunter Optics HD 4-16x44 FFP Riflescope, 30 mm Tube First Focal Plane at $179.
That said, I find virtually no information on how much parallax error to expect at any range save for the 60 yards they seem to be adjusted for.
Comments said the 2-7 will provide clear sight picture at close-in range at lowest power, but very poor DOF there. None of the three Leupold scopes have information how close they will focus and what the expected parallax error will be at closest focus range or other various ranges you would expect to see for a pellet rifle or .22 PB.
I'd prefer not to be the guinea pig here and buy all three knowing I can't afford to keep them ... so any 1st hand comments would be very appreciated!
P.S. I was initially considering the Bushnell Engage 3-9X40 at $102 + shipping on Amazon, but I am leery because I own two Bushnell scopes and find them large, heavy, clunky, and overall unimpressive. One was 50% markdown at WallyWorld, the other a thrown-in with a used airgun.
Optics Zone is one of favorite sellers.
TOZ11 (or TOZ13 on very rare occasions ) gives you 11% discount on the Leupolds you want with free shipping.
I no longer buy Chinese optics myself.
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What about these: 3 yds to infinity parallax adjustment
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-bugbuster-3-12x32-scope-1-3-moa-ao-mil-dot-reticle-med-dovetail?a=8857 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-bugbuster-3-12x32-scope-1-3-moa-ao-mil-dot-reticle-med-dovetail?a=8857)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-12x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-3-moa-1-tube?a=7972 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-12x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-mil-dot-reticle-1-3-moa-1-tube?a=7972)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-ez-tap-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4721 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-bug-buster-rifle-scope-ez-tap-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4721)
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-compact-cqb-bug-buster-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4222 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/utg-3-9x32-ao-compact-cqb-bug-buster-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil-dot?a=4222)
Well
Hmmm
First two at $160'ish range no IR is good ... both are AO, one has it on the side.
I don't know, not particularly crazy about the ring spacing since I'll move it to a pb at some point, and well, $160's + shipping vs. $300 (or $400) for a Leopold. I do have a UTG full size and it's a good scope despite heavy and has the IR.
Well, just looked again, weight was good but the eye relief not great (variance) compared to the Leopold's. Given price difference, and all things considered, I belive they become close seconds... I think the Leopold's will be heirlooms with my passing, the UTG, well I donno.
Thanks for the tough choices :P :P :P :P :P
(no, really though, much appreciated --- on the Daisy 880 they would be great to overkill, but the 22's made a slight difference)
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Optics Zone is one of favorite sellers.
TOZ11 (or TOZ13 on very rare occasions ) gives you 11% discount on the Leupolds you want with free shipping.
I no longer buy Chinese optics myself.
I did find other places that also discounted, but 11% is more than the 10% I think most were offering. I disregarded them though because I wanted the liberal return policy offered by Amazon.
Have you ever had to return or deal with an issue on items from Optics Zone?
I am also now wondering if I should consider hunting a used scope ... beat up doesn't bother me if it's 100% functional, just thinking out loud ;)
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I get that this will be moved to the optics gate, but wanted "initial visibility" --- please give it a few hours on this gate?
My other post criteria looking for a scope included AO (or side focus), lifetime warranty, low power, and etched reticle without IR. Now that I've looked and find the only scope that impressed me all-around was Westhunter with short warranty period, It's obvious I'm going to have to compromise.
Leupold VX Freedom line seem hardy, boast clear glass (presume etched reticle), but the ones fitting my budget lack AO. I'm considering the 4X28, 2-7X33, 3-9X33 ($3-$400 price range), as opposed to the WestHunter Optics HD 4-16x44 FFP Riflescope, 30 mm Tube First Focal Plane at $179.
That said, I find virtually no information on how much parallax error to expect at any range save for the 60 yards they seem to be adjusted for.
Comments said the 2-7 will provide clear sight picture at close-in range at lowest power, but very poor DOF there. None of the three Leupold scopes have information how close they will focus and what the expected parallax error will be at closest focus range or other various ranges you would expect to see for a pellet rifle or .22 PB.
I'd prefer not to be the guinea pig here and buy all three knowing I can't afford to keep them ... so any 1st hand comments would be very appreciated!
P.S. I was initially considering the Bushnell Engage 3-9X40 at $102 + shipping on Amazon, but I am leery because I own two Bushnell scopes and find them large, heavy, clunky, and overall unimpressive. One was 50% markdown at WallyWorld, the other a thrown-in with a used airgun.
Optics Zone is one of favorite sellers.
TOZ11 (or TOZ13 on very rare occasions ) gives you 11% discount on the Leupolds you want with free shipping.
I no longer buy Chinese optics myself.
The 3-9x33 Leupold EFR does have AO (10 yards to infinity.
Simple fine reticle like the ones on my Clearidge scopes.
I much prefer a Duplex Dot though, but a fine reticle equates to precise small holes for me.
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OZ is one of the best optics dealer out there.
Bought 2 Clearidge scopes from him (Jon, the owner).
He’s pretty popular on Rimfire Central.
Besides, with Leupolds, you’re set for life.
I won’t and don’t buy 2nd hand ???
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So, you use the scope like a peep sight with a large aperture.
A 1 - 4 X sounds ideal to me. Just never tried one with a 100 yard parallax at 10 yards. That said, 1" groups at 25 yards are "easy"; but not good, if you ae expecting 1/4" groups.
My 177 Hw50 with the described 4x non AO 100 yard parallax scope will do 1/4-3/8" groups at 25 yards all day long. Parallax error can easily be defeated with good form and practice. Those groups hold with the rest of my AO equipped Weihrauchs. At airgun ranges you really have to have bad form to have significant wandering POI. Most people's skill and equipment is more likely the culprit in most claimed Parallax problems.
Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.
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Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.
Even shooting off bags at 25 with the 22's I found any more than 4 to 5X to be too much. And I agree with you on both form and lower parallax error at lower settings making it less of a problem.
That said, as Richard pointed out, the 9X (3-9) IS an AO scope, but I reckon of the three I was considering it was my least desirable bc of its higher power and price. Where I'm defending the bird feeder and pesting chipmunks, 1/4" error is a likely miss. Even with the junky Optima I rarely missed ... (it was an AO).
I might go for that 3-9, but save for clarity it's not as appealing as the 4X or 2-7 for a 10 yard Daisy 880 or even the 22's at mostly 50 yards and under. I have two 3-9's and a 4-12 on them already (and truth be told my favorite is probably the Winchester 67 with open sights and 28" barrel).
I'll probably call Jon and ask about possible returns on the 2-7 or 4X. The 3-9 AO is definitely still in the running at 11% off if shipping or return policy doesn't eat that back up.
Perhaps there's a shooter at my work with one of these ... a few minutes behind it going the head-bob and I'd have a confident decision :D Still, I think the decision has been made a lot clearer by the replies and I appreciate it.
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Although I’m wont not to endorse Chinese optics, the 2-7x32 Hawke Vantage IR, mildot with glass-etched reticle is one of the nicest out there for the money… And Hawke does have excellent warranty.. Light and very clear and on top of one of my Crosman carbines, 1 of several toys I left behind when I came to the US.
Like all my scopes in Asia, they were brought in by my cuz who would always traverse both continents.
Come to think of it, I was more of a scope snob when I was still in the PI, the owner of 4 Bushnell Elites, the most expensive close to a grand back in 2015.
No warranties over there, so I had to purchase top tier optics :P
Oh, since you like small optics, one to consider are crossbow scopes. They can take springers well and aren’t parallax-fidgety 👍
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Low power scopes with fixed 50 + yard parallaxes can be in focus at very close distances. 2x—4x at ten yards is more than enough.
Even shooting off bags at 25 with the 22's I found any more than 4 to 5X to be too much. And I agree with you on both form and lower parallax error at lower settings making it less of a problem.
That said, as Richard pointed out, the 9X (3-9) IS an AO scope, but I reckon of the three I was considering it was my least desirable bc of its higher power and price. Where I'm defending the bird feeder and pesting chipmunks, 1/4" error is a likely miss. Even with the junky Optima I rarely missed ... (it was an AO).
I might go for that 3-9, but save for clarity it's not as appealing as the 4X or 2-7 for a 10 yard Daisy 880 or even the 22's at mostly 50 yards and under. I have two 3-9's and a 4-12 on them already (and truth be told my favorite is probably the Winchester 67 with open sights and 28" barrel).
I'll probably call Jon and ask about possible returns on the 2-7 or 4X. The 3-9 AO is definitely still in the running at 11% off if shipping or return policy doesn't eat that back up.
Perhaps there's a shooter at my work with one of these ... a few minutes behind it going the head-bob and I'd have a confident decision :D Still, I think the decision has been made a lot clearer by the replies and I appreciate it.
I believe Leupold makes 3x9 rimfire non efr model with a drop reticle. Just don't expect to use 9x at ten yards. I'm sure it'd be quite usable at 3 or 4x.
Not sure where your bird feeder is but mines at 15 yards and sparrows are an easy shot with my peep sighted HW30. Inside 15 yards the closer the hapless target of opportunity gets the harder the time I have with scopes. Not because of parallax or focus but hold over. The scopes height over bore makes holding over necessary at very close ranges. Those hold overs change quickly in a short distance. If I miss really close with a scoped gun it's always because I over or under shot the target. The peeps are point and pull to 25 yards.
I know this strayed off topic but I'm kind of reiterating my point about the need for high mags at close range.
My own personal problem is something called purpose tremor. It's the common condition that causes people's hand to shake more the closer they get the thread to the needles eye. The more magnified something is, the more I over correct and the worse my results. Dialing down the magnification helps reduce purpose tremor.
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I believe Leupold makes 3x9 rimfire non efr model with a drop reticle. Just don't expect to use 9x at ten yards. I'm sure it'd be quite usable at 3 or 4x.
Not sure where your bird feeder is but mines at 15 yards and sparrows are an easy shot with my peep sighted HW30. Inside 15 yards the closer the hapless target of opportunity gets the harder the time I have with scopes. Not because of parallax or focus but hold over. The scopes height over bore makes holding over necessary at very close ranges. Those hold overs change quickly in a short distance. If I miss really close with a scoped gun it's always because I over or under shot the target. The peeps are point and pull to 25 yards.
I know this strayed off topic but I'm kind of reiterating my point about the need for high mags at close range.
bird feeder is at 10 yards, but I can't make out a HOSP from a chickadee or nuthatch, and have chipmunks ground-feeding under it too...
My own personal problem is something called purpose tremor. It's the common condition that causes people's hand to shake more the closer they get the thread to the needles eye. The more magnified something is, the more I over correct and the worse my results. Dialing down the magnification helps reduce purpose tremor.
Concur 100%. That's why the 3-9 is my third choice, just don't need that much magnification for a 22 and certainly not for a Daisy 880 at 10 yards. Even on bags my groups open up at anything over 5X magification and that's not due to parallax.
A coworker here speaks great praises for Arken scopes, but I give up on finding reviews for the only one of possible interest, their EPL4 4-16x44 FFP VHR Illuminated Reticle with Zero Stop - 30mm Tube model at $400. No reviews vs. a Leopold at same price point, well, never owned either but clear choice...
Obviously at this point I'm overthinking this. The ONLY reason I'm going through all the gyrations is I need to hit a 1/4" target reliably at 10 yards, and don't want to spend $$$$ on anything that will still leave me with an itch to scratch ;) At the moment I have a need (4X no-name is yunk), and a list of wants with one shot at it, pun intended 8)
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I have one scope over $500. Two if you include the matching one I bought for my wife. Both are on our 223 varmint guns. The rest of my stuff is under $200 when bought right with most of them just either side of hundred.
IMO high dollar optics are nice if you can afford them but not necessary. At least until you're out past 300 yards. If properly focused for your vision the cheapest garbage Amazon 4x should allow you target identification at ten yards. The feathered critters you mentioned are pretty easily identifiable from each other. We have the same here. They don't require quarter inch accuracy. Run a pellet through the middle of them and they drop like a rock. Most half decent low power scopes are capable of quarter inch accuracy at ten yards. That's as long as the gun, shooter and pellets are capable of it in the first place.
If you want to treat yourself to the Arken or the Leupold, God bless you. I'm not trying to bully you into cheap low power scopes. I'm trying to understand the need for expensive hi power scopes at short distances. That Arken is a lot more scope than the last one I ran on my 223. I've shot woodchucks out to 315 with it.
Whatever you choose, I hope it works out great for you.
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Ron,
Most of my scopes are quite inexpensive, but I'm gettin older and probably won't purchase another scope after this so decided I'd like to meet a set of criteria even if it costs me a little more than I'm usually willing to spend.
I won't spend $1000+ and I can't spend $500 and meet all my criteria, but if I can meet most for $300 to $400 I shouldn't, but might anyway ;)
My 880 needs to be modded, but trust me, the rifle accuracy + scope accuracy requires the scope to be good to less than 1/4" at 10 yards (quite doable unless parallax bites me).
That Arken is overkill, but that particluar model I mentioned has no ratings and earlier versions have issues, so for a Daisy 880 or .22 pb I'd need some convincing to even consider it but thought I'd mention having looked at it. People reading this thread might also gain from having a look at it --- it does have some nice features for its price point (especially if they addressed some of the shortcomings of its predecessors).
The reason it's not going to be a Pinty or Winchester or Optima or Ohhunt or Svbony (etc.) is I'm rough on scopes and they won't hold up very long. Heck, the one on it now was new and never used and I see better without it than with it at 10 yards! I'll probably go with the Loupold 4X or 2-7X33, as I've pretty much decided 9X isn't necessary at 50-100 yards max.
I'm also working through all the threads in this gate seeking other alternatives. Sadly, my criteria rules out many suggestions...
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Since you are having 2nd thoughts on the 3-9x33 EFR and would rather settle for a non-AO one, then you might want to try out the Philippine-made Sightron 3-9x32 Rimfire scope with a 50-yard parallax. It should be better than Leupold’s 60-yard one and much cheaper at much less than $200.
Or the Vortex 2-7x32 Crossfire Rimfire, which is even cheaper @ $130 thru Amazon Prime, albeit made in China but with unquestionable warranty same as Leupold’s.
Just look for a store that has a good return policy, so you can test it at 10 yards.
Not gonna comment anymore 👍
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Since you are having 2nd thoughts on the 3-9x33 EFR and would rather settle for a non-AO one, then you might want to try out the Philippine-made Sightron 3-9x32 Rimfire scope with a 50-yard parallax. It should be better than Leupold’s 60-yard one and much cheaper at much less than $200.
Second thoughts, lol. 3rd thoughts, 4th, 5th...
Or the Vortex 2-7x32 Crossfire Rimfire, which is even cheaper @ $130 thru Amazon Prime, albeit made in China but with unquestionable warranty same as Leupold’s.
I've looked up that Crossfire. Is leaves me in the lurch on the main issue as the Leupolds, paralax, but that's probably ok with a 2X. However, and I'm not trying to be ungracious because I REALLY appreciate new suggestions (!), however, I find nothing on the reticle - wire or etched. For me to "break" a certain price-point that plays in.
The Sightron may have come across as unremarkable because I know I did some due diligence yesterday but my mind's a puddle of diarrhea... :P (maybe burn-out, like everyone listening to me prattle on in this thread)
Just look for a store that has a good return policy, so you can test it at 10 yards.
Maybe you hit the nail on the head just now, Academy Sports, Cabella's, Rural King, and perhaps some pawn shops might have the scopes in stock...
Not gonna comment anymore 👍
Well, I hate that I drove you to that, didn't mean to! I'm going to investigate your suggestions, see if there's local stock and YouTube videos. I reckon it's tough criteria and a compromised decision...just have to make up my mind where to compromise!
Thanks again for all your input Richard!
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Tonight I got a look through the Leupold 2-7X33 at Cabellas on the way to see the new spiderman movie.
Horrendous bust. Scope would not focus at around 10 or 11 yards even at 2X, started to around 15-20, movie wouldn't focus at all...
Parallax error at 10 yards was small, 3/16" max, and about an inch on 7X.
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Good information. Was it the rimfire model?
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Good information. Was it the rimfire model?
Leupold VX-Freedom Rimfire Rifle Scope, $299.00
(Wish someone in town had their 4X in stock)
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I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better
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I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better
I believe comments on their 4X showed focus at close-in to be luck of the draw, but I suppose it's possible the display models in this store are mostly comprised of customer returns?
The 3-9 I had "dismissed" that had the AO seems more "attractive" all of a sudden, but the two that Amazon had are gone so it shows unavailable. It's not that that I'm in a hurry actually, but I reckon I've about beat the conjecture side of the house to death so if I don't make a decision I've just been wasting everyone's time :-\
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I would think if the 2-7 wasn't clear at 2x a 4x wouldn't be any better
I believe comments on it showed focus at close-in to be luck of the draw, but I suppose it's possible the display models in this store are mostly comprised of customer returns?
The 3-9 I had "dismissed" that had the AO seems more "attractive" all of a sudden, but the two that Amazon had are gone so it shows unavailable. It's not that that I'm in a hurry actually, but I reckon I've about beat the conjecture side of the house to death so if I don't make a decision I've just been wasting everyone's time :-\
I kinda miss the Meth Man ;D
A few months ago, the 3-9x33 EFR was said to be discontinued, so I dunno why some stores were able to get some. When and they do get discontinued, I’m pretty sure Leupold would very much be able to support it; the model being “newish”, or they could just replace it with a direct equivalent.
OZ (Jon) is now down to 3-4 pieces as of this morning ‘cuz I’ve been telling them rimfire guys of that discount I posted somewhere in this thread.
I really think they’ll be gone for good this time, so I’m quite tempted to get one, although I like the 14x Clearidge Duplex Dot better except for its kilometer long length ???
Reminds me of my 1st Bushy Elite 1” 6-24x40 Mildot scope that was almost 24” long with the sunshade attached ???
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I kinda miss the Meth Man ;D
A few months ago, the 3-9x33 EFR was said to be discontinued, so I dunno why some stores were able to get some. When and they do get discontinued, I’m pretty sure Leupold would very much be able to support it; the model being “newish”, or they could just replace it with a direct equivalent.
OZ (Jon) is now down to 3-4 pieces as of this morning ‘cuz I’ve been telling them rimfire guys of that discount I posted somewhere in this thread.
I really think they’ll be gone for good this time, so I’m quite tempted to get one, although I like the 14x Clearidge Duplex Dot better except for its kilometer long length ???
Reminds me of my 1st Bushy Elite 1” 6-24x40 Mildot scope that was almost 24” long with the sunshade attached ???
I wonder if they will discontinue the entire line?
Well, I didn't find anything about returns but if it's not what I truly want I suppose it will hold a reasonable resale value so I've just placed the order. Free ground shipping and the 11% discount code you provided bring it to $355.99.
All I can say is it's a lot of scope for a .22 (too much for the Daisy 880, so will probably move over the Hawke Vantage 2-7X32 AO from the Savage Mark I).
My best scope was a Burris 4-14X40 AO, now I reckon it's this one.
Your advice (and patience) is much appreciated. I'll post back when I have a chance to check it out.
Thanks for not letting me run you off (or bore you to death) ...
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Scope received --- Leupold 3-9X33 EFR
Last night not so good, find the zoom "crowded", numbered 3, 4, 6, and 9. It's difficult to pick out a choice between 6 and 9, as they are pretty close together. Weight of this "issue" overall on a scale of 1-5 if assigning stars would likely be - 1/2 (meaning if that's all I found wrong it would stay at 5 stars).
Second issue, the reticle. Very fine in the center, thicker but not too thick .. very nice. HOWEVER, focus, there is a lot of adjustment and cranking the bell requires a lot of adjustment for very little change. This part is a good thing. The bad and reason for the however, is that it is a wire reticle and you can get perfect focus on only one crosshair, pick vertical or horizontal, but pick you must. The eye will do the rest and you will have both in focus most of the time (eye placement plays in). At this price point I really expected an etched reticle. It's definitely the most I've spent on a scope and my Leapers is etched and though no longer made, it's "replacement" with etched glass is in the $250 range. Stars, I think another - 1/2, because even with a wire reticle, it's really a very fine wire - just plain nice.
So far, I'm going to say 4 stars. If it were cheaper, it would be 5 stars. I did get TWO discounts compared to Amazon which no longer has it in stock, 11% off, and no tax. I think it was $356.
The eyebox. Last night not so good, this morning better but not excellent at higher magnification. That bears out a little explanation. Gotta talk about the focus ring and come back to this.
Tension of adjustments, objective and ocular. Very nice. The ocular had enough resistance where it didn't "spin" and wasn't difficult to turn. The lock nut was perfectly drilled machined for threads and facing was parallel, so when spinning up the locknut it didn't move the bell, it just stopped there and done, no discernable movement to final tighten - perfection. Objective ring, a bit of tension but not so much it's difficult and not loose to the point you might expect bumping or strafing it would result in movement. Again, perfect.
On that objective ring, 10 isn't 10, it's marked "10M". I think it's yards. I really think it's yards. I hope it's yards. Really, what's with that "M"? Nitpicky. The measurements are off quite a bit though as you go farther in range. At 10 yards it's close, by 50 not so much. Still, it's a rimfire scope, not a big deal or deal-breaker in any form or fashion. Minus 0 stars.
Clarity. CLARITY! There be CLARITY in abundance. Bright, clear glass. Period! Easily as good as anything I've ever looked through. And edge to edge focus, well, sometimes perfect, sometimes there was obvious depth of field coming into play. No complaints. (none, zero, nada, zip, zero, zilch).
Here's the ugly though. Yesterday, scope lost focus with changes in zoom. Get it in focus, change the zoom and focus was pooched. Never seen that happen before. Dragged out my Leapers, no such issue. My (cheapest) Optima that got water in it and took years to dry out, no such issue either. I also find that that focus ring will keep turning well past where I expected it to have a stop. And so I did --- ran it until I hit a stop and put it away for the night. This morning, problem gone, no change in focus at long or short range with zoom setting. OK, now it's good. So (?)
Instructions were no help, nothing but vague and generic, but online their website instructions say turn objective to the stop then adjust. Again - OK. Not going to ding it a star for a problem that may not exist, not going to ding it for lack of a stop (at least one extreme has no stop, just turns 150% or so past the end and gets tight). Just have to remember that old addage (joke?), doc, it hurts when I put my arm like this --- answer: don't put your arm like this...
NOW back to that eyebox. I think it was more critical when it had the mystery focus tantrum than it is now that the issue resolved. Eyebox is very good at lower power, and at higher a little critical. It's still probably excellent, it's still probably going to be more excellent when mounted so cheek weld with be of assistance.
Overall I'm going to say it's easily a 4 star scope, probably my best scope although I hadn't compared it head to head with my Burris 4.5-14 yet. I'm also going to repeat myself, I was nitpicky about some things (had very high expectations), and though $350 is more than I've ever forked out for a scope, there are many more out there in the 5-10X cost bracket --- for the money it might easily be a 5 star scope to those folk willing to spend more than I am. For me, comparing it to what I have at the prices I've paid, it's a 4 or 4 1/2 star scope that would have had to cost in the $250 to $300 range for me to call it a 5.
Now I reckon I'll need to find some lens covers and get it mounted on something. Perhaps I'll "fix" the Diana 34 and try it there.
Just my $.02