GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Richard3589 on March 15, 2022, 07:36:11 PM
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Alright guys and gals, what do we know about the Crosman Icon?
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Oh dear lord it looks like a QB chief II with a different stock! I like the stock, but its definitely a QB style. The barrel band that gar back makes me wonder on the accuracy. My chief II plus is a dime sizer at 30 yards though.
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Just haven't heard much in it. It does look a lot like the chief 2 though.
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Interesting that it does not have a shroud to accomplish that which we cannot talk about nor does it have an integral thing that which we cannot talk about but is instead threaded out of the box for the thing which we cannot talk about.
It sort of looks like my Gamo Urban but with a tacti-cool stock instead of a, well, not sure what the Urban stock is, yeah, like that.
Can we just have rifles that look like rifles? I sort of like this thing, too bad my next money goes for a JTS Standard. And then a Crosman 362 and then-----.
3C.
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Interesting that it does not have a shroud to accomplish that which we cannot talk about nor does it have an integral thing that which we cannot talk about but is instead threaded out of the box for the thing which we cannot talk about.
It sort of looks like my Gamo Urban but with a tacti-cool stock instead of a, well, not sure what the Urban stock is, yeah, like that.
Can we just have rifles that look like rifles? I sort of like this thing, too bad my next money goes for a JTS Standard. And then a Crosman 362 and then-----.
3C.
I'm still planning on a standard to in. 25, if they ever show up. Lol.
When I seen the release on this one, it peaked my interest because of the threaded . There are no threads or much info on it though
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I just looked at my chief 2 and the breech and mag looks identical to the icon from what I can tell. I'll pass, unless it's under 200 bucks or is regulated... and doesn't break.
I guess beeman and umarex are making friends with crosman/velocity outdoors now?
Just looked again, and even the rear velocity/spring adjuster looks identical on the two. The trigger looks different though. Even the stock mounting holes and gauge location are the same as the chief 2. Also a 3000 psi fill. It's basically the same rifle I'm betting. Just different stock, trigger, and has the 1/2-20 UNF threads.
Even the laser engraving for the fill pressure is the same font and same exact location. Not worth 280 IMO, I do like the stock though. If my C2P doesn't &^^& out by the time parts become available for this one, I might buy a stock lol. The reach on the trigger of the C2P is uncomfortable for me, im in the works of fitting a crosman 160 stock to it now. Just alot of tube hanging out the front, no worse than a disco though I guess.
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I just hope it is not the end of the Maximus, and crosman value pcp designs.
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Cool little rifle with open sights. I can see someone 3D printing a forward barrel band for it down the road. However at 7.1 pounds it's awfully heavy. Hopefully Crosman took their time on this one so we don't have a bunch of angry people with non shooting Icon's.
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Two things missing for me to be interested in this gun....
Side lever cocking and a forward barrel band.
Other than that it would be the most tactical looking gun I would even consider.
I'm not into the tactical style.
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For me, it is no Legos! :(
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Yeah this is odd to me. Why is crosman going with a QB design when they have there own low pressure guns already. Plus for the price one would be silly to get one of those over an Avenger especially the refurbs at sub $200.
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Must be feeling non-generous today….
PURE OPINION (not in a IMHO type of opinion):
Doesn’t really have any outstanding features that would make for rabid fanship.
It has the potential to be a useful, reliable snow shovel...we all want a multi-function snow blower.
Limited test-reviews...company-linked reviewer could be better called “shills” or “barkers”.
Unless they have some secret-sauce no one’s mentioned, having to sell it at $279 to make money…. China hosed them.
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So it's another over priced clone. Okay thanks guys.
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Now wait.... I can see it's appeal to some.... just not me.
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What I can't understand is why was this thing designed without a front barrel ban?
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I like the open sights on it but other than that.. 7.1 lbs, bolt action, no forward barrel band. I think Crosman/Benjamin need to hire some serious airgun freaks to help their design team out lol. Like I said I hope they perform well and there isn't an Icon gen 2 in 4 months.
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The Icon and the Gauntlet 2 are some of the ugliest air guns in production.
Let's hope they don't marry and have children.
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The Icon and the Gauntlet 2 are some of the ugliest air guns in production.
Let's hope they don't marry and have children.
Too late....
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What is that ugly azz thing?
Also, I've been looking around on the web and I can't find anything about crosman/benjamin/velocity outdoors buying or partnering with beeman but that breech, mag, and air tube are spitting images of the QBC2P.
I wouldn't be surprised if velocity bought them out.
So far, all the new crosman stuff coming out is not impressing me, other than the Kral made craftsmen line.
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https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-k-mp7-break-barrel-pellet-gun?m=5513 (https://www.pyramydair.com/product/h-k-mp7-break-barrel-pellet-gun?m=5513)
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I don’t think the $279 price too far off the mark. $175-200 for either a QB or Maximus is a not uncommon price. To convert one of them to a pistol grip style stock is $100 in parts or more. To me the odd thing was not to base it on the Maximus. Just mold a stock to fit the Maximus action. Similar parts and keep everything in house.
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The Maximus is only a 2k fill gun.
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The Maximus is only a 2k fill gun.
The lower would be an easy fix. Three valve screws vs two. I wonder if the limitation is on the tiny breech screw.
A carbine, non-regulated, Fortitude, would have been more interesting, to me, and add to the lego options. ;)
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Just got an email that PA has a limited supply of this ugly duckling available for those interested.
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Just got an email that PA has a limited supply of this ugly duckling available for those interested.
Could buy one to test out and return it! I'm sure something won't function properly. If it's anything like the QBC2P the gauge will be 500 psi off and the bolt handle will flop around in battery. I'm giving mine to my older brother for his first pcp and he has a 177 air hawk. He's used to big and bulky and fiddling with smaller pellets.
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Apparently available in .177 and .22. If it had a side lever and barrel band I might be remotely interested.
I was looking at the mags.... not the same clear plastic rotating cover. That is a plus.
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Apparently available in .177 and .22. If it had a side lever and barrel band I might be remotely interested.
I was looking at the mags.... not the same clear plastic rotating cover. That is a plus.
Nope, there is a thumb wheel on the top of them. Don't have to rotate it first either. Just load, turn the wheel, load, etc. I do like the mags for these guns, except that they stick out the side of the breech kinda goofy. Definitely needs a front band though, although these barrels are thick and rigid, and mount with 2 big set screws in the breech.
I'm basing all this off my QBC2P, which I'm almost 100% positive this is the same platform. If it was 100 bucks cheaper, I'd be the guinea pig!
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A carbine, non-regulated, Fortitude, would have been more interesting, to me, and add to the lego options. ;)
Here here! I'd buy one. I want a good Carbine in the 36"-38" length area.
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Love my Forti... ;D
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Just go off the phone with crosman, ordering parts. Anywho, I asked them if they bought out beeman or merged since this gun looks like the chief 2, and he said nope!
I wanna believe him, but.... I mean look at the two guns!
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Just go off the phone with crosman, ordering parts. Anywho, I asked them if they bought out beeman or merged since this gun looks like the chief 2, and he said nope!
I wanna believe him, but.... I mean look at the two guns!
Sorry but take a better look...tis no a Chief 2.. looks to be based on a Commander... to me anyways...
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Just go off the phone with crosman, ordering parts. Anywho, I asked them if they bought out beeman or merged since this gun looks like the chief 2, and he said nope!
I wanna believe him, but.... I mean look at the two guns!
Sorry but take a better look...tis no a Chief 2.. looks to be based on a Commander... to me anyways...
I’d beat the Icon is based on a Chief 2 vs a Commander because the Icon at 7 lbs and Chief 2 at 6.8 lbs is much closer in weight. The Commander weighs in at over 10 lbs and I doubt the difference is all in the stock.
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Just go off the phone with crosman, ordering parts. Anywho, I asked them if they bought out beeman or merged since this gun looks like the chief 2, and he said nope!
I wanna believe him, but.... I mean look at the two guns!
Crosman just outsourced to China for the Icon same as the they outsourced to Turkey (Kral/Reximex) for the Gunnar and Craftsman rifles.
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I just hope it is not the end of the Maximus, and crosman value pcp designs.
+ 100
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Just go off the phone with crosman, ordering parts. Anywho, I asked them if they bought out beeman or merged since this gun looks like the chief 2, and he said nope!
I wanna believe him, but.... I mean look at the two guns!
Sorry but take a better look...tis no a Chief 2.. looks to be based on a Commander... to me anyways...
I’d beat the Icon is based on a Chief 2 vs a Commander because the Icon at 7 lbs and Chief 2 at 6.8 lbs is much closer in weight. The Commander weighs in at over 10 lbs and I doubt the difference is all in the stock.
well the barrel is a bit shorter also... and the Commander is 8 LBS... the Pyramyd figure is with the scope also...
https://beeman.com/product/beeman-commander-1518-22-caliber-air-rifle/
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I just hope it is not the end of the Maximus, and crosman value pcp designs.
10-4 that. My Maximus is leaking after 2-1/2 years but it’s no doubt a simple fix. Great shooter,great value. Accounted for many squirrels. Chief sounds like a problem child.
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Well I know I won't be buying this one. In fact, the chief 2 is getting handed over to my brother soon. He won't shoot it nearly as much as I shoot my air rifles so hopefully it'll last him awhile. It's accurate and powerful enough for hunting, better than his air hawk he currently has. I figure with these guns. Itll be tossed in the trash after it poops out. Maybe keep the barrel and breech for a QB project, or rig it on to something else. The icon may get support here in the states if it makes it through the first few months of sales. It took crosman almost 2 years to get parts in stock for the Kralman guns.
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BB did a review on the ugly thing. Haven’t read it yet, but I’m in the process.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/03/crosman-icon-part-one/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/03/crosman-icon-part-one/)
Beau
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My initial thought after seeing it was Airmax Varmint turned Diana Stormrider, turned Crosman Icon! Just another cheap Chinese clone! I hate that Crosman is watering down their airgun lineage with clones of other brands that have been around for years, trying to pass them off as something new... :o :( >:(
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My initial thought after seeing it was Airmax Varmint turned Diana Stormrider, turned Crosman Icon! Just another cheap Chinese clone! I hate that Crosman is watering down their airgun lineage with clones of other brands that have been around for years, trying to pass them off as something new... :o :( >:(
I feel the same. After the past couple years with Covid and supply issues due to China, they decide to out source to China? Seriously?! If it was made in America it might be worth the $280, but I won't be on the band wagon this time. If it's anything like the chief 2 which I can see that the parts are externally identical, good luck getting the power or shot count they claim. My .177 barely squeaks out 3 mags/36 shots at 16 fpe. It is accurate though. I tried getting more power and less shots, but it just wastes air with its chosen pellet the baracuda hunter 10.59.
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I just looked at the Chief II, and yep, it does look very similar! I'm betting all 4 are the same rifle, just accessorized a bit different to create the illusion they are something else!
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Tom on pyramid said it shares some similarities but it is not a chief, he thinks the mags might interchange. He seemed somewhat positive in his review but his findings seemed very lackluster to me. Big extreme spreads with not so high shot count.
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Now that we’ve treated the Icon (which none of us actually own) like a roll of toilet paper in a Taco Bell bathroom, any positive comments?
Can think if 3...2 are more like “wishes”.
1. Possible that if it becomes popular with Crosman, would cure the Beeman type parts supply problem. Stay in the Crosman line-up long enough, they do tend to supply parts.
2. Possible that that are internal changes or QC requirements that we know nothing about. SPA (who I suspect has a lot to do with the Icon) does tend to change things and not bother to tell us.
3. Although it doesn’t come with an LDC, a lot of us PREFER good detachable LDC’s to semi-fixed factory LDC’s.
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Dug this back up since Shooter1721 on YouTube has a review coming up tomorrow at 5pm ET I believe. In case anyone wants to actually see this thing in action.
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Dug this back up since Shooter1721 on YouTube has a review coming up tomorrow at 5pm ET I believe. In case anyone wants to actually see this thing in action.
Will definitely check it out. What YouTube channel is his?
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Dug this back up since Shooter1721 on YouTube has a review coming up tomorrow at 5pm ET I believe. In case anyone wants to actually see this thing in action.
Will definitely check it out. What YouTube channel is his?
His name is Rick, and his YT channel is Shooter1721. He does a bunch of airgun vids and trick shot stuff. I think he used to work for crosman.
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Well I watched the review video and it sounds just like the chief II plus when firing. Horrible hammer bounce, and the bold handle flops around exactly like the C2P. IMO, it looks worse in vids than it does in the pictures. Rick tried to make it shine, but the 50 yard group wasn't that impressive. Rick is usually a one ragged hole shooting guy, I mean he splits playing cards all the time from the side lol.
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I just looked at my chief 2 and the breech and mag looks identical to the icon from what I can tell. I'll pass, unless it's under 200 bucks or is regulated... and doesn't break.
I guess beeman and umarex are making friends with crosman/velocity outdoors now?
Just looked again, and even the rear velocity/spring adjuster looks identical on the two. The trigger looks different though. Even the stock mounting holes and gauge location are the same as the chief 2. Also a 3000 psi fill. It's basically the same rifle I'm betting. Just different stock, trigger, and has the 1/2-20 UNF threads.
Even the laser engraving for the fill pressure is the same font and same exact location. Not worth 280 IMO, I do like the stock though. If my C2P doesn't &^^& out by the time parts become available for this one, I might buy a stock lol. The reach on the trigger of the C2P is uncomfortable for me, im in the works of fitting a crosman 160 stock to it now. Just alot of tube hanging out the front, no worse than a disco though I guess.
gettin close to your 200$ buy it now trigger...
Oldest Daughter just ordered one for me from Buds for 216$ with free shipping for dads day...
I hate the stock already... just not to my taste at all... but if a 160 stock matches up well... it will fit well with my 3 Maximi that wear 160 stocks and will not have to make one from scratch...
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I think those of you that said tis close to the Chief II plus-s are right... Me Honestly I would have rather have seen Crosman come out with a non regulated fortitude than just import a Industry brand qb descendant but hey it is what it is... if the parts support is their well as an owner of one now the practical side says all is forgiven... but well just would rather see Crosman/Benjamin pcp's built here... or at least assembled here... wonder if will be able to get a chief II barrel band some how... also I wonder if the 24.5" Commander barrel would drop in...
Honestly I like the stocks on the Chief II and II Plus-s much better than that of the Icon... just do not much care for pistol grip styles...guess it comes with having grown up pulling 30.06, 7mm, .338 Mag and such into my shoulder...Sporters just feel more natural for me after 50 or so years of doing so(more counting Dad's remmy 512)...plus just not into the whole tacticool thing...
found another Vid about the Icon will post it below... looks to be about 25 fpe with 13.43g and maxxes at about 28 fpe with 18g if the power is the same as the II plus...
But yep about 900 fps w/14.35 jsb is perfectly acceptable to me...Would be nice if it likes the cheaper pellets also...
Accuracy reports on the Chief II plus...seem to be pretty good... so guess I will be seeing for myself soon...
I bet it will chunk my cast BBT 30g decently well at 650 or so fps.. ;)
Like ribbonstone well I love it here at the small tank cheap end of the pool... should be fun and well I will like it no matter what(after I get it in a different/better stock ;))cause it's from my Daughter.. 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGVAjYCW8OY&t=420s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGVAjYCW8OY&t=420s)
here is a Chief II plus .22 vid with fx 18g and H&N 18g shooting starts at about 4:20...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A8V80Qnx_w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A8V80Qnx_w)
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well is showing due 6-22-22...
Wanted to put it in a 160 stock... Cuz, well tis sort of a descendant...stock is only bout 1.5" wide...be a bit tight when widened for the about 1" air tube...
but I have decided it will sit in a surplus Remmy 513 Match Master stock that I got cheap because it had been shorted to about 1.75" long of the rear sling swivel... https://oldarmsofidaho.com/product/remington-model-513-t-stock/
barrel channel will need widening from about .8" but at it's skinniest stock is plenty wide at 1.5"... may just totally reshape the thing in the end... could make it lighter..tis a good bit of wood to work with...
getting an Optima 3-9x40 ao from a friend...only been used on his nephews Hatsan pcp...
forgot have a Tasco 4x32 A0 I could pull from one of my 1322 carbines...
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well is showing due 6-22-22...
barrel channel will need widening from about .8" but at it's skinniest stock is plenty wide at 1.5" (OOPS meant 1.75") ... may just totally reshape the thing in the end... could make it lighter..tis a good bit of wood to work with...
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William thanks for your eval/ of the QB II Plus-s .177
Can not wait to test the Icon with .217 H&N slug assorted... K.O.s of Course... BBT 30g... the lighter 20 ish grain slugs should be around 800 fps hope it likes them... 25g K.O. Should leave the muzzle around 760... maybe later will mod for power... once parts are available and after getting to know it... my Urban does well with BBT down at 650 fps... so maybe it will also... Optimum no but will still get ya Dinner at 45 yards.. ;)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186356.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186356.0)
below thread let me know needed a 1"dowel to sand Remmy barrel channel for air tube...
"Tube diameter is 1.023ish"
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185431.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185431.0)
soon will be having fun finding out what mine will like at what speed..
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William thanks for your thorough eval of the QB II Plus-s .177 makes for a real nice little fire breather...
Can not wait to test the Icon with .217 H&N slug assorted... K.O.s of Course... BBT 30g... the lighter 20 ish grain slugs should be around 800 fps hope it likes them... 25g K.O. Should leave the muzzle around 760... maybe later will mod for power... once parts are available and after getting to know it... my Urban does well with BBT down at 650 fps... so maybe it will also... Optimum no but will still get ya Dinner at 45 yards.. ;)
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186356.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=186356.0)
your below thread let me know needed a 1"dowel to sand Remmy barrel channel for air tube...
"Tube diameter is 1.023ish"
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185431.0 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=185431.0)
soon will be having fun finding out what mine will like at what speed..
oops meant to edit not quote....
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I actually like the stock! :o
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if we all liked the same thing would be a boring world.. ;)
Stock does feel nice and solid... just like the Maximus stock tis just not for me...
length of pull is about an inch short...trigger distance is just a bit short for me also...
Mine got here today did some initial testing did well at 30 yards in some wind... will post results in a while or tomorrow morning... but proof of life below... with 3-9x40 AO and crosman baffle, carbon fiber tube LDC...
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Hummm I notice that the icon and Barra 1100z have the same size main tube and fill system. Bet theses 2 are related lol.
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Am being influenced. Reviews are pretty positive, first hand experience hasn’t scared me off. Thinking more kindly about the Icon.
May be the “fascination of the new toy” we all get when a big brown box shows up at the house.
No matter...it’s still a bit over priced to beat the low end competition, lacks several features that a buyer should expect for the price, and the stock is either a turn on or a turn off (doesn’t seem to be a middle ground).
Still a “pass” from me...but not a “hard pass”. Drop the current price by $40-50 to make it competitive (likely not possible or they lose money), which would let me buy an LDC to get it even with some of the competition, and so long as I didn’t look at the stock much, could live with it.
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Hi K.O. Can you tell me if the breech screw and the main screw for holding the stock are 180 degrees opposite of each other?
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Hi K.O. Can you tell me if the breech screw and the main screw for holding the stock are 180 degrees opposite of each other?
Stock screw is slightly rearwards but is in line with 180* of breech screw...
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Hi K.O. Can you tell me if the breech screw and the main screw for holding the stock are 180 degrees opposite of each other?
Stock screw is slightly rearwards but is in line with 180* of breech screw...
Thanks K.O.
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Found LOCLEDLOADED.COM lists the ICON .177 and .22 for $214.45 each .I think delivered with no tax.
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Sorry LOCKEDLOADED.COM
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The Icon and the Gauntlet 2 are some of the ugliest air guns in production.
Let's hope they don't marry and have children.
Too late....
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I just looked at the Chief II, and yep, it does look very similar! I'm betting all 4 are the same rifle, just accessorized a bit different to create the illusion they are something else!
Don't forget...........
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Am kind of hoping (although the odds are against it) that they ARE similar enough that some basic support Icon parts would work in the Cheif II....Beeman really avoids parts support, Crosman usually is much better (although they take a little while to catch up to new offerings).
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I need another PCP like another hole in my head, but............add a drop block and a bottle after shortening the tube :o :o
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I need another PCP like another hole in my head, but............add a drop block and a bottle after shortening the tube :o :o
Then you'd basically have a gauntlet lol.
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was really happy for about 100 rounds then accuracy went to carp... despite the barrel it was doing pretty durn good at 30 yards... then then leading showed up at the crowning tool damage... I had not bothered to look had not felt it when cleaned barrel... wet bore mop then couple patches ...need to pay better attention...
Need to call Crosman... Man these companies trying to put out a budget barrel need to just stop while they are ahead...
it is idiotic to use a piloted crown tool...
do not go to the expense of even trying to crown the barrels...
let them just be cut flat... we can use a brass screw... people will learn...it's better than paying for a process that destroys the barrel... I would rather have a unfinished kit than a destroyed barrel...
Dang barrel lottery...
Icon2 jpg is zeroing with CPUM very top hole is first shot... were two more stacked just above then switched to bottom cross with some clicking... then middle cross one shot then more clicking... three nice and tight and one left on me... couple more clicks then bingo...
then the 18g Cudas... was doing good job of shooting the lulls but think wind caught the one to left
BBT were shot at to low of pressure curve start 2000 psi... JSB 15g and 18g had done very well also...
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Ouch, that crown looks ugly! I'm surprised with that much damage in the muzzle you got anything to group.
I wonder if they'll send you a barrel of a return label and just swap guns? The barrel is easy to remove on these guns.
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Wow!!! Not cool. Crosman will take care of you though. That is one nice thing about buying their products.
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I am mostly just bummed becuse I wanted to slug the barrel and start experimenting with slugs/sizing this weekend...
Sometimes we just have to deal with delays...
Since it is a relatively new ish platform am guessing they will want it back... also for same reason I want to preserve the warranty...
just getting a new barrel sent would be nice but only if me installing it does not void the warranty...
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Ouch, that crown looks ugly! I'm surprised with that much damage in the muzzle you got anything to group.
I wonder if they'll send you a barrel of a return label and just swap guns? The barrel is easy to remove on these guns.
yep I was surprised also...
also I forgot to mention did a string over the Chrono to find sweet spot before groups... this was settings as received with 14.3 CPHP.... groups were shot from ~2600 down to ~2000 psi...
at ~2950 psi with the 14.3g things started at 820 fps and rose to 890 fps at ~2600 psi...
high was 905 at about 2250 psi...back down to 890 at about 1950 psi...
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just to give idea of looks with the Matchmaster stock.. ;)
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It'll definitely look sweet in that wood stock! I'm more for traditional rifles myself.
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I like the icon stock so if you get the wood stock I’d be interested taking the icon stock off your hands.
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well I have to see if I have to send it to crosman or not before I mess with filling and fitting/re-inletting the Remmy stock...
so may be a bit...
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It'll definitely look sweet in that wood stock! I'm more for traditional rifles myself.
had to pull 160 stock off my .177 Max just to see ... looks like gauge may be tall enough to just stick out...have not pulled stock yet to check...
Tho I like the Crosman 362 synthetic stock much more than most...I would like my 362-17-L to wear a wood stock...
So here is imagining a Chief II plus in a 160 stock... seen Discos in QB Deluxe Stock...
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nah 160 stock is just not beefy enough for the Icon... perfect for a Maximus tho...JMO.. ;)
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Do agree with Kerby about crowns...flat with just the bore edge smooth/evenly broken..rest of the muzzle left dead flat... works. It’s only job is a smooth even release of the pellet as it exits. It’s easy to damage with a ding. Most airguns will have an LDC , brake, or shroud to keep us from dinging it, which serves just as well as a deep radius crown.
His pictures pretty well illustrate, it’s not the tooling (big expensive machines, piloted crowning tools) but the time/care in doing the job that counts. We can donate hours to one crown...they can’t.
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OK...at $215 (sale or just discount) price, and feeling much more friendly to the Icon. The stock is ugly to my eyes, but likely comfortable (and while holding - shooting it, you can’t see the stock).
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Ouch, that crown looks ugly! I'm surprised with that much damage in the muzzle you got anything to group.
I wonder if they'll send you a barrel of a return label and just swap guns? The barrel is easy to remove on these guns.
return label it is... So looks like a couple weeks.. :(
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Tracking says they got it Wednesday morning... no notification of any sort from Crosman yet... This is the first return had to do... so do not know what to expect...
Currently can not get past the 10% off banner at Crosman's web site... the X to close is out of frame.. it used to sit low enough to close now I cant see it... they already have my email from when they had the Max on sale... gave it any ways and submitted but banner stays...
???
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well They have had my Icon for Two Weeks now(actually at tomorrow noon-ish)...
No Notification of anything being shipped back to me yet...
Called customer service last Thursday was told probably tomorrow/Friday...
:( :'( ::) ...
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not happy...Icon showed up about today...but had to take off to load up a old friends car on a tilt bed and get her home...
got home about ten... gave the Icon a once over...got an even worse barrel than the original...Who is it doing warranty repair...
How is this called an acceptable repair...even a quick glance would show this barrel is badly messed up...
::) :(
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will try to get better pictures of bore tomorrow...
but w...t...f..?
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That crown is disgusting.
I'd send that picture to Crosman CS.
Is it possible to return the gun for a refund?
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Sorry to hear that Kirby. I've been avoiding new crosmans for awhile because they have begun the slide down the slope.y fortitude was nothing but trouble. Seems like since they were bought out by Velocity their QC has went to krap. Too much China, not enough USA!
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Thanks Kirby...
I didn't care much for the gun in the first place.. now I hate it.
Sorry for your experience.
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Shoot it see how bad it is.
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My crown not great looking on my Barra 1100z .177 either but it shoots hole in hole at 16yrds.
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it is not just the crown... where the other barrel had some rifling damage at the depth of the crowning tool pilot... this one the rifling is completely wiped out to that depth (about 1/3 of an inch...just some smears in places... will try to get better pic one more time...
may get some luck and it may work with the BBT 30... but honestly as bad as this one is doubt anything will do well at all... the Muzzle end is bigger than the rest and boogered up...
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on my monitor if view from different angels helps... shows rifling damage/lack of rifling better...
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Called customer service this morning...was handed off up the chain but was busy... had to leave name and phone...waiting on return call...
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Pic of my Chief II Plus in 177. A great gun - has taken LOTS of Pigeons !!
wll
(https://photos.imageevent.com/wlleven/k10dtest/downloadphotos/Chief%20II%20and%20sm.png)
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mine is going back for the second time...printer probs tho... so have to run to Office Depot to print return label...I do still have faith in the platform...
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My crown not great looking on my Barra 1100z .177 either but it shoots hole in hole at 16yrds.
well yours it may show as a prob up at longer distance... but because it is shallow you could cut and recrown the very end...
Damage on mine would have to cut about .3" off to fix...that would leave me with only .3" of threading left for the Moderator... Could be counter bored to save the threads just no one local to do it...
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My crown not great looking on my Barra 1100z .177 either but it shoots hole in hole at 16yrds.
well yours it may show as a prob up at longer distance... but because it is shallow you could cut and recrown the very end...
Damage on mine would have to cut about .3" off to fix...that would leave me with only .3" of threading left for the Moderator... Could be counter bored to save the threads just no one local to do it...
3rd times the charm Kirby!
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My crown not great looking on my Barra 1100z .177 either but it shoots hole in hole at 16yrds.
well yours it may show as a prob up at longer distance... but because it is shallow you could cut and recrown the very end...
Damage on mine would have to cut about .3" off to fix...that would leave me with only .3" of threading left for the Moderator... Could be counter bored to save the threads just no one local to do it...
3rd times the charm Kirby!
Thank you... I sure hope so...
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My crown not great looking on my Barra 1100z .177 either but it shoots hole in hole at 16yrds.
well yours it may show as a prob up at longer distance... but because it is shallow you could cut and recrown the very end...
Damage on mine would have to cut about .3" off to fix...that would leave me with only .3" of threading left for the Moderator... Could be counter bored to save the threads just no one local to do it...
3rd times the charm Kirby!
Ok well the saga continues...
and you can call me crazy...
Sold an old Yammi GT 90 that the got for the kids long ago... been in storage shed for quite a while and run just enough to keep in shape...
used $200 of it to buy another for long term project...
the .22 are on sale at the Zon right now and it is due next Wed... https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-Icon-PCP-Powered/dp/B09PLKVHSF?th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Crosman-Icon-PCP-Powered/dp/B09PLKVHSF?th=1)
So here is what is the deal with my original... UPS did not notify me and well Crosman does not notify when they recieve it...
So checked tracking and UPS has lost it in NY.... not far from Crosman... Crosman checked into it but has not heard from UPS... well they are sending another... order went in yesterday...so should get it soon also...
Well anyways yep can call me crazy but I have faith in Crosman/Benji... and honestly It does seem like a decent platform... and when parts become available in the future it will give a comfort level to mod one in case I mess up...
have seen with the Crosman/Barra/Beeman configurations that with a non messed up barrel they can be pretty durn accurate especially if you find the sweet spot for how you set it for each pellet...
So for the simple non regged starter pcp market it's best competition would be the Urban... Can see reason why different folks would choose each over the other...
well anyways...the adventure continues... Because... I do think the platform does show promise... ;)
if it is like my first one...needs barrel tune... It had the feel that it will benefit doing a mild lapping/fire lapping... both mine so far would probably have benefited from a crown redone if no rifling damage... both plenty of 1/2 unf thread to cut and recrown if needed...
here is Rick with a Barra for you side lever guys/gals... Rick CLEAN THE BARRELS before testing. ::) ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvxMzwBS9ko&t=3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvxMzwBS9ko&t=3s)
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glad I missed the sale, don't feel like spending another $150 for a compressor just to get 30 shots
I'll just stick with the 7,000 psi co2 cartridges and get 200 shots on my Smith Wesson model 80G auto BB rifle
air compressor airguns too much trouble, compressor crankshaft breaks down, pellets need to be loaded on a magazine , whereas BBs can be muzzle loaded, just drop it in
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Got mine yesterday. I must say, VERY surprised @ what you get for $130. I cleaned the barrel and pressured up to the 3k max. Loaded the 14.3g Crosman domed pellet (I have better pellets but decide to use these up as none of my guns shoot these best) and sighted in. As I was sighting in, I also set the hammer screw out about 2 1/2 turns to get a nice velocity curve of 800 start to a max of about 850 (good backyard velocities). My groups were all one hole. "Large" holes, but holes nonetheless. Shooting 10 shot groups @ 15yds I got 60 (with sight-in) shots on one fill. I'm surprised a "cheap" airgun can shoot this well. I/ll try to post pic
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Definitely backyard worthy.
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The weather was finally nice enough to take the ICON out and shoot today. For some reason the trigger doesn't engage all the time. About every 3rd or 4rth shot I'll cock the gun and nothing. If I cock it a second time it will shoot but of course I need to remove the magazine when I do or I'll have a double feed. Is anyone else having this problem? Is there an easy fix or should I just send it back??
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You might need to back the hammer spring off a 1/4 - 1/2 turn. You might be getting the occasional coil bind. I would also check to see if something may have gotten in there. (maybe a small piece of broken spring).
Or maybe the trigger is set a bit too light.
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Received my 2 ICONS yesterday 1 in .177 and 1 in .22. Barrels look better than most have posted so I aired both up to 3000 psi. Without gun cocked if you set gun down semi hard on buttstock end they fire. If gun is cocked it does not do it. Is this normal or is something wrong with both of them ?. I have not done anything but fill both rifles.
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That's kinda scary. :-\
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Wondering if someone who bought one of these ICONs can do this and see if they get the same results. You do not have to hit buttstock hard just a light bump on floor. I have both of them in soft padded rifle cases and just checked but lifting off floor 3 inches and drop them on buttstock and it does it.
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I guess I can imagine it happening if the hammer is adjusted to the poppet stem with no or very little free flight.
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there is also a trigger adjustment that increases and decreases the second stage pull length... it may be set to short...
I had seen a thread that mentions the type of trigger assembly used... but have to find it again... and maybe it is the one that the rc bearing works on...
here is BB's blog that mentions the trigger adjustment...
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/03/crosman-icon-part-three/
I would like to learn what I can if anyone has insight or links... I think it may be based on the 160's trigger..?
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there is also a trigger adjustment that increases and decreases the second stage pull length... it may be set to short...
I had seen a thread that mentions the type of trigger assembly used... but have to find it again... and maybe it is the one that the rc bearing works on...
here is BB's blog that mentions the trigger adjustment...
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2022/03/crosman-icon-part-three/
I would like to learn what I can if anyone has insight or links... I think it may be based on the 160's trigger..?
But he said it happens even when the gun is not cocked. Shouldn't have anything to do with the trigger.
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WEill not do it if the gun is cocked. Only when no mag in and rifle not cocked will it do it.
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Looks like the hammer is touching the back of the valve and stem and when bounced on the buttstock the hammer bounces and strike the poppet. There should be enough counter force from the compressed air in the valve and spring to counter the hammer when not cocked and full flight.
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I am surprised these rifles have been out for a while and no one has experienced this. I am going to contact CROSMAN on Monday to see what they have to day. If you de cock rifle with a pellet loaded could be very dangerous. Will post their response if I even get one. Isn't there a CROSMAN engineer who is a member here that posts from time to time ?
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I just tried it with both of my Icons .177 & .22 even with a good solid bump test in all condition they did not fire... Sorry we just have not built a large knowledge base for them yet...
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Thank you for checking yours. Nervoustrig has one that he says does the same as mine. He doesnt feel like it is anything to worry about as long as rifle is not loaded and decocked. I am still contacting CROSMAN to see what they say and will post their response if I get one.
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I did have the single shot tray in on both tho...
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Mine does it regardless of the SST or mag or nothing present. Pretty sure it's just the inertia of the somewhat heavy hammer compressing the hammer spring and sending the hammer back the other way to the valve stem with enough force to blip it open.
The adjuster on mine is at 0.255" depth, which is what seems to produce a useful bell curve starting at about 2800psi. With the adjuster at this depth, it's just barely enough to take the hammer out of free flight...meaning practically no spring preload. I tried adding preload 1 turn at a time. It continued to be fairly easy to blip the valve at +1 turn or +2 turns or +3 turns. Finally when I got to +4 turns, (adjuster at a depth of 0.410", or about 0.155" of spring preload), it required what I regard as an unreasonably sharp strike to the buttplate to blip the valve.
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I just bumped my .177 Icon for a full charge pretty hard on the ground and no bang.
I previously adjusted my trigger and hammer spring.
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I have 2 of the 22's and you have to make a conscious effort of pulling the trigger to make either one of them fire. I'm sure they did enough R&D to make sure they wouldn't go off inadvertently ::)
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my .22 is at .3" in... sending 18g JTS & H&N... with a good bump can hear the spring and hammer but no burp...
my .177 is set at .4" in for the 13g K.O. , 16g Beast and Seneca Domed... no spring and hammer noise...
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I have 2 of the 22's and you have to make a conscious effort of pulling the trigger to make either one of them fire. I'm sure they did enough R&D to make sure they wouldn't go off inadvertently ::)
I do not know the details of this trigger and it's adjustment... so to me it makes good sense to bump test it... at different adjustments at each new setting you change to.... and at different hammer spring settings also... have bump tested all my rifles when I first get them... It is better to know than not...
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I always bump test after hammer spring and trigger adjustment but I have to admit, I've never bump tested and uncocked gun.
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I a little confused on how an uncocked gun can even fire. If it's not cocked then there is no tension on the hammer spring and nothing to release to impact the valve poppet if it's not cocked. Maybe I'm missing something here...
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Paul, think hammer bounce.
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Must be it uses a heavy hammer like the QB's either enough free flight when bumped to cause enough momentum to open the valve, or too much hammer spring tension on the poppet.
Would not be a bad idea to test this on guns that have had valve / hammer spring mods.
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If I'm understanding this right, it can't happen with a cocked gun. The sear has the hammer locked in place. The trigger has to be pulled to release it onto the poppet. Now, adjusting the trigger too light is a complete different monster. A good bump would release the hammer. But in this case, it almost has to be the hammer bouncing off the hammer spring when the gun is dropped allowing it to free fly into the poppet. I would even venture a guess that if you dropped it hard enough the sear would catch the hammer and the gun would be cocked... I don't recommend dropping the gun hard enough to test that theory. ???
In my opinion there are two scenarios that could cause this issue.
1) Too much preload on the hammer spring whereas a good bump would crack the poppet open.
2) Too much free flight allowing the hammer to bounce off the hammer spring and free fly into the poppet and crack it open when dropped.
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I bet a TSS or a BStaley oring stack would fix it. Both would need to be adjusted correctly.
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That makes more sense, but as James pointed out, it would have to have a pretty heavy hammer to overcome the tank pressure to open the valve! I wonder if it does the same think regardless of the tank pressure, i.e. a full 3000 psi fill v. a low fill of 1500 psi or less?
Fortunately, most magazine fed air guns should have a pellet in the chamber after the last round has been shot, so unless the cocking lever is opened enough to cycle another round, there should only be air coming out the barrel when this happens on an uncocked air rifle.
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I'm finding it hard to believe that it's releasing enough air pressure to equal a full powered shot. The lack of a pellet in the barrel providing resistance to the air escaping the barrel will make the "crack" louder. Think the sound of a dry fire.
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The hammer bounce analogy is correct. It’s a weak strike...not much air released. At least it was on mine with an almost fully charged reservoir.
I haven’t had the hammer out but this behavior and the normal shot cycle both tell me it’s pretty heavy, and/or the poppet is a hard material that’s easy to knock open.
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I would even bet this is not the only gun that this could be done with. Like I said, I never have bump tested an uncocked gun.
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I bump tested uncocked on some of my 13xx carbine builds because of using weak valve springs...
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The weather was finally nice enough to take the ICON out and shoot today. For some reason the trigger doesn't engage all the time. About every 3rd or 4rth shot I'll cock the gun and nothing. If I cock it a second time it will shoot but of course I need to remove the magazine when I do or I'll have a double feed. Is anyone else having this problem? Is there an easy fix or should I just send it back??
Part of the sear is extremely rough and is the cause for the "phantom cocking". It gets hung up in the reset cycle and the hammer gets locked in place but the sear isn't set all the way so it won't fire when the trigger is pulled. Once the area is filed and polished it cocks without fail. Obviously this is going to be a problem for the average consumer.
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Received my 2 ICONS yesterday 1 in .177 and 1 in .22. Barrels look better than most have posted so I aired both up to 3000 psi. Without gun cocked if you set gun down semi hard on buttstock end they fire. If gun is cocked it does not do it. Is this normal or is something wrong with both of them ?. I have not done anything but fill both rifles.
Yes. The Icon will bump fire when the hammer spring adjustment is at its lightest (just before free flight or less), the tube pressure is at or below ~2000psi, and the rifle is decocked. A sharp strike on the ground will produce a full shot under these conditions. Not a burb, blip, etc... a full shot that is well capable of firing a pellet at high speed, should there be one in the barrel.
One solution would be to install a longer spring that adds preload. Not a great solution because hammer bounce is already an issue, and it might not even fix the issue. A stiffer hammer spring adjusted to near zero free flight should alleviate the issue at least some, not allowing the hammer to travel far enough back under it's own weight to produce a rebound.
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The weather was finally nice enough to take the ICON out and shoot today. For some reason the trigger doesn't engage all the time. About every 3rd or 4rth shot I'll cock the gun and nothing. If I cock it a second time it will shoot but of course I need to remove the magazine when I do or I'll have a double feed. Is anyone else having this problem? Is there an easy fix or should I just send it back??
Part of the sear is extremely rough and is the cause for the "phantom cocking". It gets hung up in the reset cycle and the hammer gets locked in place but the sear isn't set all the way so it won't fire when the trigger is pulled. Once the area is filed and polished it cocks without fail. Obviously this is going to be a problem for the average consumer.
Can you post a photo of which part of the sear needs to be polished?
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The weather was finally nice enough to take the ICON out and shoot today. For some reason the trigger doesn't engage all the time. About every 3rd or 4rth shot I'll cock the gun and nothing. If I cock it a second time it will shoot but of course I need to remove the magazine when I do or I'll have a double feed. Is anyone else having this problem? Is there an easy fix or should I just send it back??
Part of the sear is extremely rough and is the cause for the "phantom cocking". It gets hung up in the reset cycle and the hammer gets locked in place but the sear isn't set all the way so it won't fire when the trigger is pulled. Once the area is filed and polished it cocks without fail. Obviously this is going to be a problem for the average consumer.
Can you post a photo of which part of the sear needs to be polished?
next time I have an icon apart I will, if I'm still here.
Take your stock off and watch the sear assembly at the contact points while you're cocking the gun. You'll probably see it.
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I decided to give the barrel a little attention. First up was to remove the front sight. I was expecting it to put up a fight so I made a simple slide hammer with a scrap of wood. Before warming up the sight to soften it, I gave it a couple of moderate strikes with the slide hammer and it popped right off. Turns out it simply had a brittle adhesive holding it and a flat for indexing.
(https://i.imgur.com/pM1Edmz.jpg)
Starting at the leade, I used a generic Cratex point and wet/dry sandpaper to break the sharp step in the rifling. Then I poured a cast lap and worked the bore. There were two tight zones at approximately 25% and 75% of the way from the breech which took a bit of work to blend out. Here's a pic of the lap after the job was done.
(https://i.imgur.com/uLma8TT.jpg)
Then it was time to deal with the irregular factory crown
(https://i.imgur.com/7mpGXhD.jpg)
After cutting it back and recrowning:
(https://i.imgur.com/zVtt0ex.jpg)
Then cleaned the bore and reinstalled the barrel and pulled some patches with Johnson's wax. Waited a bit for the solvent to evaporate from the wax, then grabbed the Norma 17.6gr domes to shoot some test groups. It seems to have responded nicely. The first 3 groups at 30 yards measured 0.22", 0.36", and 0.19". Average of 0.257" or 0.82 MoA.
(https://i.imgur.com/AzhHKKV.jpg)
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nice job Jason...one of my favorite feelings is when the work pays off and a bargain turns into BARGAIN. 8) 8)...
that kind of accuracy for a buck and a quarter... not bad at all...
the Bargain Gate $106 .177 I got finally made it back to Crosman yesterday... if it had just needed the barrel work would have kept it... but a gauge stuck at 1200psi and not holding air.. ::)
so a replacement or refurb of it should be on its way for me to evaluate soon...
I really like my 22 and do not regret getting it for a good bit more than this deal... in good conditions I feel anything above moa at 50yards with H&N and JTS 18g is not the rifles' fault...
looks like you could estimate twist using the rifling on the lap.. ;)
Have my other .177 set for the heavy stuff love that it keeps up with the Hatsan Hydra/Flash .177 FPE... and it really likes the Beast and Seneca Domed.. ;)
Will have to dig up the targets I shot at factory setting do not think many have been posted for the .177s...
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This ? is for Jason. What do you use and what process to achieve a nice concentric crown? I'd love to be able to do it @ home as well. Great job!
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not Jason... but this one looks to be done on a lathe because of the angle... looks like the muzzle was just barely rounded to finish... In Jason's write up you can see a good crown just done with a drill and brass screw...
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130555
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nice job Jason...one of my favorite feelings is when the work pays off and a bargain turns into BARGAIN. 8) 8)...
that kind of accuracy for a buck and a quarter... not bad at all...
Hi Kirby, yes sir I'm happy with how the .22 is turning out. I am interested in how your replacement .177 does so I'll be keeping an eye out for your update.
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NICE! Great posts. Thankyou
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What do you use and what process to achieve a nice concentric crown?
Hi Rick, Kirby is correct in surmising that I did the facing operation on a lathe. I then followed with the brass screw technique described in the article he linked, which is what develops the bevel into the bore. That step is done with a common hand drill.
If you don't have access to a lathe, be advised some guys have successfully done the facing operation by chopping (hacksaw) and then squaring the end with a file or an improvised lathe. This improvised lathe consists of either a drill or drill press to spin the barrel, and supporting the muzzle with a piece of wood with a hole drilled in it. That's how I did it before getting a lathe, as described here
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=55681
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The skill level of members on this forum is mind blowing, but his looks like something even I can do. Thanks for your willingness to share this info
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🤦🏼♂️ I don’t have to wonder anymore about why my Icon .177 isn’t the “track driver” that some indicate it could be…. I pulled the barrel after shooting some 25m groups (about 8 or so 10 and 12 shot groups) and thinking I just wasn’t shooting very well since it was getting dark out and I’m not using a very good scope, I found that my barrel has the dreaded crown issues. Mine is smoothish but at a pretty strange angle, lol.
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What do you use and what process to achieve a nice concentric crown?
Hi Rick, Kirby is correct in surmising that I did the facing operation on a lathe. I then followed with the brass screw technique described in the article he linked, which is what develops the bevel into the bore. That step is done with a common hand drill.
If you don't have access to a lathe, be advised some guys have successfully done the facing operation by chopping (hacksaw) and then squaring the end with a file or an improvised lathe. This improvised lathe consists of either a drill or drill press to spin the barrel, and supporting the muzzle with a piece of wood with a hole drilled in it. That's how I did it before getting a lathe, as described here
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=55681
I turned down the entire length of this LW barrel to fit a 2240 breach using a drill and block "lathe" It specked out better than a Crosman OE barrel.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-021223163621.jpeg)
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What do you use and what process to achieve a nice concentric crown?
Hi Rick, Kirby is correct in surmising that I did the facing operation on a lathe. I then followed with the brass screw technique described in the article he linked, which is what develops the bevel into the bore. That step is done with a common hand drill.
If you don't have access to a lathe, be advised some guys have successfully done the facing operation by chopping (hacksaw) and then squaring the end with a file or an improvised lathe. This improvised lathe consists of either a drill or drill press to spin the barrel, and supporting the muzzle with a piece of wood with a hole drilled in it. That's how I did it before getting a lathe, as described here
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=55681
I turned down the entire length of this LW barrel to fit a 2240 breach using a drill and block "lathe" It specked out better than a Crosman OE barrel.
(https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/gallery/17377-021223163621.jpeg)
I’ll be checking out those methods in order to fix my Icon 👍
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Shot mine with hammer way in and slugs. Got 1 mag about on the top of the curve.
Shot mine with hammer way out and cphps. Got 1 mag about on the top of the curve.
Read it's about the same for every setting in between. Might find out trying the in between weights of pellets lying around that didn't make the house pellets cut.
.177