GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Gone Fishing on October 12, 2021, 07:07:49 PM
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Well, as many of you know I've been working at getting a big bore. For a couple years actually I've investigated it. I landed at two real contenders: Airforce AirgunsTexan .457-50 cal or a Western Big Bore Bushbuck 45.
So, then came EBR. I went early to see the big bore competition. Varying yardage and steel plates. It was a grand time. And super illuminating. Really the two standouts were the Texan and the Bushbuck, confirming what I already knew. I did see an AEA, a Hammer, and a Rex compete as well, but anything past 150
yards couldn't compete against the WBB or AF rifles.
So I bought the Bushbuck. I really am a fan of AOA, their work and customer service, and also of Kip Perow's Airguns Only Adventures YouTube hunting channel. I like strong and simple builds when it comes to anything engineered, and the simplicity and build quality of this gun is top notch. Presently, the gun is on some truck headed my way. I will post pics when I get it in. .452 cal.
Forgot to mention, the furthest bell was only hit 3 times at 400ish yards, and all three by a Bushbuck.
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Lt, congratulations! That is one POWERFUL ACCURATE big bore! Wonderful lines on the wood stocks too. Looking forward to pics and hopefully a review. Hope the truck arrives soon!
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Lt, congratulations! That is one POWERFUL ACCURATE big bore! Wonderful lines on the wood stocks too. Looking forward to pics and hopefully a review. Hope the truck arrives soon!
I will be doing a video review. Also thank you. I grew up really poor so it is always hard for me to buy any airgun, especially an expensive one. So I hope to show just how impressed I am with these rifles and their build quality.
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Congrats on the purchase of the Bushbuck ;) ;) ;)
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Oh buddy cant wait to see it.
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Had to search it up-holy moly what a gun!
Congrats!!
Jesse
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Yeah, you'll like it. Airforce makes great guns. The Texan has been serving me well.
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Lt, congratulations! That is one POWERFUL ACCURATE big bore! Wonderful lines on the wood stocks too. Looking forward to pics and hopefully a review. Hope the truck arrives soon!
I will be doing a video review. Also thank you. I grew up really poor so it is always hard for me to buy any airgun, especially an expensive one. So I hope to show just how impressed I am with these rifles and their build quality.
When we work hard to get what we want it makes the purchase so much more meaningful.
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Wicked, look forward to seeing it.
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HPAman,
that's sounds like more than a "handful" of a gun! AWESOME! 😄
Congrats on your purchase! Hope you'll have a TON of FUN with it! 👍
I feel your pain about buying expensive airguns. After having gotten disappointed by Turkish and Chinese products, I am now considering a Lelya, but man, what a mountain of dough....! 😵
And as I have been limiting myself to strictly .177 and .22cal now I've gotten interested in what FOR ME is a "big bore" -- that is, .25cal (yeah, ya'll laughing at me, it's OK, it's still big for me....).
Matthias
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HPAman,
that's sounds like more than a "handful" of a gun! AWESOME! 😄
Congrats on your purchase! Hope you'll have a TON of FUN with it! 👍
I feel your pain about buying expensive airguns. After having gotten disappointed by Turkish and Chinese products, I am now considering a Lelya, but man, what a mountain of dough....! 😵
And as I have been limiting myself to strictly .177 and .22cal now I've gotten interested in what FOR ME is a "big bore" -- that is, .25cal (yeah, ya'll laughing at me, it's OK, it's still big for me....).
Matthias
Thanks my friend. I actually am going to be reaching out to you soon about some BC data.
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I had to look it up too. That is one solid looking rifle. I think you made a fine choice.
Enjoy it and if it makes you smile, it’s money well spent.
Dave
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You need to look in the classifieds. Quickly.
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You need to look in the classifieds. Quickly.
Thanks man for keeping an eye out! That is 457 instead of .45-452, so it won't work. But that is a great deal! I actually can see how much thought went into this gun just based on the 452 cal.
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Get a .452 sizer. You will need one eventually.
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I think my dad has a couple of 45 molds, if I can straighten things with my casting out I might be able to help. Not happy with the alloy that I received but I have some decent pure stock now and need to test in my 357 to make sure things are correct. I should be able to size things too since I'm certain my dad bought a sizer for those castings. I'll try to remember to check what he has this weekend when I see him.
Off topic, but I really hope Crosman chooses .452 for their Gunnar. The variations on rounds you can cast are pretty wide.
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I always though it was smarter for airgun maker to make .45 in .452 rather then .457
There's just so much more pistol .45 caliber bullets out there to choose from
This is my favorite supplier, I've used him a lot and he makes quality products at a very good price.
.452 from 155gr to 350gr
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=71 (https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=71)
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Congrats!
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I always though it was smarter for airgun maker to make .45 in .452 rather then .457
There's just so much more pistol .45 caliber bullets out there to choose from
This is my favorite supplier, I've used him a lot and he makes quality products at a very good price.
.452 from 155gr to 350gr
https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=71 (https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=71)
Thanks for the tip Manny. Yeah I realized that the .452 has a tremendous amount of ammo available. I appreciate that they chose that cal. Not bashing the 457 but obviously much less selection.
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Great choice ;D it looks about identical to xp air guns .45 ranger with low ,and high power settings , I am thinking XP made this gun or some one has done a direct copy of it , I have the xp ranger .45 36 inch barrel model ,and a bunch of molds .452 .... I would get the accurate .45 412 L mold they used to have a 425 g mold that looked identical in about every aspect ,and is what Roachcreek Charlie , and I have that worked fantastic for the high power setting starting at 4300 psi was best .... 45- 360 C also works fantastic on high power ,and gets you more fps ...
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360C (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-360C)
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-412L (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-412L)
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The American big bore cottage industry has been making the same gun basically for years now,........ DAQ, Haley ( when he was still alive ), Corsair, Extreme, XP, Western Bushbuck
all follow the same concept, a little individualism in the different brands but essentially the same exact style gun.
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Thanks. Any bullet info and any casting info is super useful. I know I will be talking to brewbear about casting at some point.
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Thanks. Any bullet info and any casting info is super useful. I know I will be talking to brewbear about casting at some point.
Congrats on that absolutely stupendous rifle!!
As for casting, easy, peasy:
1. https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-pro-4-20-lb-melter-110-volt/ (https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-pro-4-20-lb-melter-110-volt/) or https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-production-pot-iv-melter-110-volt/ (https://www.titanreloading.com/product/lee-production-pot-iv-melter-110-volt/) I have both and I much prefer the first one (20 lb)
2. Pure lead- and you gonna need lots of it to feed that big boy https://www.rotometals.com/cut-in-half-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9-with-freight-included/ (https://www.rotometals.com/cut-in-half-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9-with-freight-included/)
3. To keep the mould hot https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1ATFADZVN4NW9&dchild=1&keywords=hot%2Bplate&nav_sdd=aps&qid=1634354226&refinements=p_n_feature_ten_browse-bin%3A17720284011&rnid=17720283011&s=kitchen&sprefix=hot%2Bplate&sr=1-3&th=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Elite-Cuisine-ESB-301BF-Electric-Indicator/dp/B00C8C5I7I/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1ATFADZVN4NW9&dchild=1&keywords=hot%2Bplate&nav_sdd=aps&qid=1634354226&refinements=p_n_feature_ten_browse-bin%3A17720284011&rnid=17720283011&s=kitchen&sprefix=hot%2Bplate&sr=1-3&th=1)
I will let @Wayne52 guide your steps on what moulds to get.
Hope this helps
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Size .22 vs 452
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Sounds great and looking forward to seeing more about your experiences.
Did you see any PBBA products?
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USA
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Sounds great and looking forward to seeing more about your experiences.
Did you see any PBBA products?
Not at EBR but I have seen them before. Really cool product too
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I also ordered some lighter 365 grain slugs but they were missing in the order. These are 475 grain
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I have a comment on casting... Make absolutely sure you know where your pure lead is coming from!!! I bought "pure" lead and it seemed OK but harder than it should have been. Just spent an hour casting with new really pure lead that I ordered from Midway... The stuff from Midway casts a lot easier than the other junk!
I assume to time take will be good stuff too, just with the quantity I was ordering the Midway price came out about the same because I soaked up the shipping with a bunch of other stuff.
If anyone needs a dead blow lead hammer, let me know, I have about 9 pounds of junk and I think turning it into a hammer or sandbag is the only good use of it!
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This is what I order ,and Wayne buy's from them also , and we have had very good luck with their product ...
https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/ (https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/)
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This is what I order ,and Wayne buy's from them also , and we have had very good luck with their product ...
https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/ (https://www.rotometals.com/whole-lead-pig-ingot-57-62-pounds-99-9/)
I got my 26 lb lead brick from roto metals, but it's a surplus brick with a bit of oxidation on the outside. Free shipping and $56, so I can't complain. I split pieces off with my 20t wood splitter and just flux the pot once it's all melted, just a tiny bit of dross.
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Update. Assembled it (only one Allen screw) and checked it out today in more detail. Hands down superb quality. Worth every penny. Simple and rugged. USA made. Kip @ AoA is the man! Will update more once I get this bad boy scoped and all.
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Beautiful gun!
I just got to see a video review of this gun, and... WOW!
I'm not sure on the twist rate of barrel, but if I had one of those bad-momma-jama's I'd give some round balls a try. At least for plinking. Hornady makes some from pure lead I used in B.P. revolvers in various sizes at a decent price, under $20 per 100 last time I looked (a few years ago).
Congratulations and enjoy that beast of a gun.
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14.3 grain .22 vs 475 grain .452
AoA sent a separate package with the 365 grain slugs. When I get them I will upload a picture. I will let you know on the twist rate.
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I just looked at the price... Ugg, crossing this off my list. Umarex Hammer is closer to what I might go, and it's .510 so you can use the R.E.A.L. molds from Lee.
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I just looked at the price... Ugg, crossing this off my list. Umarex Hammer is closer to what I might go, and it's .510 so you can use the R.E.A.L. molds from Lee.
Watchout for those Hammers. They have a safety issue with blowback that frankly should not have been allowed to be released. I would go for the Korean made 50s before the Hammer. Also, the Umarex Hammers I have witnessed have performed sub-par on every occasion I have witnessed, especially EBR.
Not trying to be a partisan here about brands. I think the Rex, the Dragons, the Texans are all better options than the Hammer.
Look at a picture of the interior. Looks fun to work on.
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More
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50" long but they do have a carbine model that they produce. You would have to check with Kip or Rich at AoA when they might offer it again, but it can show bolts in addition to bullets. It is also a nicer size for carrying around (I held one at EBR).
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Beautiful stock! Boy…I bet you can’t wait to get the first shot off! Those projectiles are MASSIVE! LOL! Are you going to attach a DonnyFl Emperor?
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Beautiful stock! Boy…I bet you can’t wait to get the first shot off! Those projectiles are MASSIVE! LOL! Are you going to attach a DonnyFl Emperor?
No, no plan to muffle it.
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Nice gun .... When you had the stock off this gun what did the trigger release points for the hammer look like ? .... on the xp ranger .45 Dan used machined hardened allens to get the low hi power plus a 3rd hole for a mid power but you can only use it by its self for mid power .... I have never seen all the parts on the Bushbuck but from what I see it looks pretty much the same as the xp with out the 3rd power setting .... I wonder if it has a TJ barrel ? It Looks like you got a very high quality in materials well mad gun to me ... ;D
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Nice gun .... When you had the stock off this gun what did the trigger release points for the hammer look like ? .... on the xp ranger .45 Dan used machined hardened allens to get the low hi power plus a 3rd hole for a mid power but you can only use it by its self for mid power .... I have never seen all the parts on the Bushbuck but from what I see it looks pretty much the same as the xp with out the 3rd power setting .... I wonder if it has a TJ barrel ? It Looks like you got a very high quality in materials well mad gun to me ... ;D
The trigger is definitely in keeping with the rifle in general. It isn't light, nor should it be. I think 4lb is where it is set. No safety in keeping with old-school your finger is your safety (I don't like the confusion and false sense of safety that provides anyway. I didn't look too much at the trigger assembly other than the simplicity of the unit. I was honestly too focused on getting it lock-tited in and assembling two other PCPs after it.
The quality is spectacular. Reminds me of a simpler Mrod that is built to never break and push a 500gr bullet out. The fancy for this rifle is the rugged durability of it. It is definitely a take me to Africa type rifle. 30" barrel.ame a 50ish" total length is much like my old Mosin Nagant.
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That’s good to hear. Once you get your Bushbuck scoped and ready to go, let me know. We can meet up at the back range and shoot some targets and groups at the 100m, 200m, and 300m berms. I’ve got a Labradar so we can also check the slug performance and BC.
I’m interested in seeing how my .257 holds up to the .452 at distance in the wind.
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and assembling two other PCPs after it.
I've heard of hoarding toilet paper and food... Are you hoarding airguns?
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and assembling two other PCPs after it.
I've heard of hoarding toilet paper and food... Are you hoarding airguns?
No I had my Mrod in parts and was working in the trigger and ditto with my Talon. My wife was gone for the day so Dad time
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That’s good to hear. Once you get your Bushbuck scoped and ready to go, let me know. We can meet up at the back range and shoot some targets and groups at the 100m, 200m, and 300m berms. I’ve got a Labradar so we can also check the slug performance and BC.
I’m interested in seeing how my .257 holds up to the .452 at distance in the wind.
Yes I will. This next couple weeks are busy but I'll try to get around to scoping it. That .257 is a Lazer.
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The 365s came in today. Smaller than the 475s but still large.
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Congrats! Enjoy
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Both .451
High Arc @ AoA.
Smaller one is the 365gr
Larger one is the 475gr
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Is the 475 hollow point? Looks like a very effective ventilation tool to me.
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Is the 475 hollow point? Looks like a very effective ventilation tool to me.
Yes HP rounds.
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Well ordered some moulds. Will post the pics then I get them in
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Incredibly sweet air-cannon. I never thought I'd be looking at big bores legitimately, but now... here I am perusing non-stop. And after spending close to that EACH on my Leshiy and Lelya, I can state flat out the airguns in the upper range are worth what you pay (by and large). I'll have to keep a couple tabs open so when my wife gets home this afternoon she sees a Bushbuck; she's going to be thinking about 'em. And we have the space to shoot long distance, too.
@Matthias- if you are still considering a Lelya in .25, lemme tell ya- it's a superb and incredibly fun PCP. I bought one for me and my wife (back then girlfriend) immediately laid claim. Hades are a perfect match, and the accuracy warrants high quality glass.
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I shoot a DAQ .458 and I have a bunch of molds but my current favorite is the Noe 458-244-FN-CA4 4 Cavity RG4 BT. It’s light and has a nice flat trajectory and kick is much more civilized.
I powder coat and lube with 10 weight RC silicone shock oil, otherwise I end up with an extended cleaning session with a Lead fouled barrel.
Even with this light bullet I get 450+ FPE.
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I shoot a DAQ .458 and I have a bunch of molds but my current favorite is the Noe 458-244-FN-CA4 4 Cavity RG4 BT. It’s light and has a nice flat trajectory and kick is much more civilized.
I powder coat and lube with 10 weight RC silicone shock oil, otherwise I end up with an extended cleaning session with a Lead fouled barrel.
Even with this light bullet I get 450+ FPE.
Thanks for the tip. Ais the powder a spray or do you make it on? Or is it just dip and go?
Side subject, did I see you as an admin on another forum?
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I shoot a DAQ .458 and I have a bunch of molds but my current favorite is the Noe 458-244-FN-CA4 4 Cavity RG4 BT. It’s light and has a nice flat trajectory and kick is much more civilized.
I powder coat and lube with 10 weight RC silicone shock oil, otherwise I end up with an extended cleaning session with a Lead fouled barrel.
Even with this light bullet I get 450+ FPE.
Thanks for the tip. Ais the powder a spray or do you make it on? Or is it just dip and go?
Side subject, did I see you as an admin on another forum?
I use powder coat powders using the “shake and bake” method. Smoke4320 is a member here and the AGG and he sells excellent powders. Avoid harbor freight powders. My two best performing powders are Eastwood Ford Light Blue, and Smoke’s Signal Blue.
https://youtu.be/XpvM1CxRWfQ
https://youtu.be/7Z4TdT5RWX4
https://youtu.be/RnEd3ezQy74
Yep I’m co-owner / admin of the AirGunGuild.com with Alan Applegate. Travis Whitney started it with me taking care of the technical aspects a few years back. He bought the GTA and sold/transferred the AGG over to Alan. The GTA was my first airgun forum and I remain a loyal follower.
At the very least I would lube your bullets with shock oil and clean your barrel after each shooting session. Big Bores and soft lead are a ton of fun but the barrels foul. Keep it clean or suffer!
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
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Powder coating hollow points is a bit of a pain, you need to make sure to tap the powder out of the point, and sometimes you need to dig it out.
What about car wax on the powder coated ammo, would that keep the fouling down? I really want dry rounds at the end of the process.
And I certainly don't want to repeat the fouling that I've already had, but I think that was due to the condition of the barrel, and the junk alloy that I bought on Amazon.
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
How those things look like they are painted perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
When I get off work I'll check it out. What moulds are you using most of the time? I ordered a lee and am looking at NOE too
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
How those things look like they are painted perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
When I get off work I'll check it out. What moulds are you using most of the time? I ordered a lee and am looking at NOE too
I suggest checking out the Arsenal molds as well. I've been impressed with the two that I have bought. They have a good selection and up to 5 cavities make for fast bullet production.
http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5 (http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5)
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
How those things look like they are painted perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
When I get off work I'll check it out. What moulds are you using most of the time? I ordered a lee and am looking at NOE too
I suggest checking out the Arsenal molds as well. I've been impressed with the two that I have bought. They have a good selection and up to 5 cavities make for fast bullet production.
http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5 (http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5)
Man as luck should have it, I had just looked at their site and sent off a request for downsizing a bullet to .452 from .454 and .457.
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@Matthias-
if you are still considering a Lelya in .25, lemme tell ya- it's a superb and incredibly fun PCP.
I bought one for me and my wife (back then girlfriend) immediately laid claim.
Hades are a perfect match, and the accuracy warrants high quality glass.
Peter,
your enabling is getting me into trouble with my wife — she isn't as much into airgunning as I am.
Actually, not at all 🤣 — so congrats on yours: Finding a wife who likes airgunning is a rare find! 👍🏼
Since I like short guns, bigger caliber seems to go against that.... So, here I'm wondering again about .22cal....
And I probably need to start my own thread, but I'm wondering if the Lelya's short barrel in .22cal can be persuaded — without too much money and expertise and waste of air — to spit pellets out at 38 FPE....? 🤔
Matthias
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@Matthias-
if you are still considering a Lelya in .25, lemme tell ya- it's a superb and incredibly fun PCP.
I bought one for me and my wife (back then girlfriend) immediately laid claim.
Hades are a perfect match, and the accuracy warrants high quality glass.
Peter,
your enabling is getting me into trouble with my wife — she isn't as much into airgunning as I am.
Actually, not at all 🤣 — so congrats on yours: Finding a wife who likes airgunning is a rare find! 👍🏼
Since I like short guns, bigger caliber seems to go against that.... So, here I'm wondering again about .22cal....
And I probably need to start my own thread, but I'm wondering if the Lelya's short barrel in .22cal can be persuaded — without too much money and expertise and waste of air — to spit pellets out at 38 FPE....? 🤔
Matthias
The EdGun Lelya shoots JSBs extremely well, and 50+ FPE is easy enough with JSB Exact Jumbos in .22. You're talking only 830 FPS. Ours is tuned at 890 at the moment in .25- JSB Kings @ ~ 34 grains and it pushes to nearly 60 FPE and there's still room for more power. I adjusted the regulator once we started seeing coyote on our property, though with the arrival of the M25 bigbore, I may tune it back to to pre-coyote power levels (~ 48 FPE)
The EdGuns are capable "powerplants" for moving pellets. I don't think the barrels are ideal for slugs but that's a trade-off worth noting.
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
How those things look like they are painted perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
When I get off work I'll check it out. What moulds are you using most of the time? I ordered a lee and am looking at NOE too
I suggest checking out the Arsenal molds as well. I've been impressed with the two that I have bought. They have a good selection and up to 5 cavities make for fast bullet production.
http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5 (http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5)
Man as luck should have it, I had just looked at their site and sent off a request for downsizing a bullet to .452 from .454 and .457.
Another thumbs up for Arsenal Molds. I own Arsenal, Noe, Accurate, Lee, Lyman, and a handful of antique bullet molds. I use the Noe sizing die system as well as a few Lee sizing dies. All good stuff.
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Some more bullets, .257, .458, .357
How those things look like they are painted perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
When I get off work I'll check it out. What moulds are you using most of the time? I ordered a lee and am looking at NOE too
I suggest checking out the Arsenal molds as well. I've been impressed with the two that I have bought. They have a good selection and up to 5 cavities make for fast bullet production.
http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5 (http://arsenalmolds.com/products?page=5)
Man as luck should have it, I had just looked at their site and sent off a request for downsizing a bullet to .452 from .454 and .457.
Another thumbs up for Arsenal Molds. I own Arsenal, Noe, Accurate, Lee, Lyman, and a handful of antique bullet molds. I use the Noe sizing die system as well as a few Lee sizing dies. All good stuff.
Have you asked Arsenal to size down from a .454 or .457 to a .452?