GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: PGunner on June 17, 2021, 08:33:58 PM
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I have an R9 .20 cal. and I see amo is gotten real scarce.
I'm thinking of changing my barrel.
What would you rather have a .177 or a .22 cal?
If you don't mind what is the biggest thing you have killed with it?
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.22 caliber.
40lbs monkey.
-Y
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I have a Hw95 (R9) in 177. It's very accurate. The toughest critter it's killed is a grey squirrel. I have recently considered changing it to 20 cal because I thought it would carry more energy than the 177 and be flatter than the same gun in 22. A turn of bad luck events put an end on my plans to switch to 20 and I should consider myself lucky now that 20 caliber pellets are so scarce. Anyway this 177 / 22 debate is always a bloodbath. My preference between the two on this rifle is 177. It's flatter shooting which is good if you are looking to hunt smaller critters at extended ranges. I killed a crow at 70 yards with 177 Hw50 and a starling at something like 104 yards (IIRC) with the Hw95.
22 is better if you're gonna wallop bigger critters like raccoons and possums inside 40 yards. Past that the loopy trajectory will require alot of range/holdover expertise to land the shot in the right place.
Bottom line is it depends on what you want to do with the gun and how good you are at range/holdover estimation.
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I have a Hw95 (R9) in 177. It's very accurate. The toughest critter it's killed is a grey squirrel. I have recently considered changing it to 20 cal because I thought it would carry more energy than the 177 and be flatter than the same gun in 22. A turn of bad luck events put an end on my plans to switch to 20 and I should consider myself lucky now that 20 caliber pellets are so scarce. Anyway this 177 / 22 debate is always a bloodbath. My preference between the two on this rifle is 177. It's flatter shooting which is good if you are looking to hunt smaller critters at extended ranges. I killed a crow at 70 yards with 177 Hw50 and a starling at something like 104 yards (IIRC) with the Hw95.
22 is better if you're gonna wallop bigger critters like raccoons and possums inside 40 yards. Past that the loopy trajectory will require alot of range/holdover expertise to land the shot in the right place.
Bottom line is it depends on what you want to do with the gun and how good you are at range/holdover estimation.
I have an HW95 and an R9 both in .177. My favorite pellet is the heavier 10.5 grain Crosman Premier Heavy.
It has excellent accuracy and bucks the wind better than the lighter pellet. I also managed to kill a squirrel at 95 yard with that pellet out of my R9 after about 5-6 shots. It will go through a soup can at 100 yards.
I don't have any experience with the .20 caliber but it would seem to me that trying a heavier pellet before switching calibers might be worth a try.
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The .20 is a good cal. but not many of them around and expensive so it is going to be move it to a .177 or a .20 just not sure I like both and both have there good and not so good quality's.
Then I guess if it's to go for a little more power or more speed.
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I have a Hw95 (R9) in 177. It's very accurate. The toughest critter it's killed is a grey squirrel. I have recently considered changing it to 20 cal because I thought it would carry more energy than the 177 and be flatter than the same gun in 22. A turn of bad luck events put an end on my plans to switch to 20 and I should consider myself lucky now that 20 caliber pellets are so scarce. Anyway this 177 / 22 debate is always a bloodbath. My preference between the two on this rifle is 177. It's flatter shooting which is good if you are looking to hunt smaller critters at extended ranges. I killed a crow at 70 yards with 177 Hw50 and a starling at something like 104 yards (IIRC) with the Hw95.
22 is better if you're gonna wallop bigger critters like raccoons and possums inside 40 yards. Past that the loopy trajectory will require alot of range/holdover expertise to land the shot in the right place.
Bottom line is it depends on what you want to do with the gun and how good you are at range/holdover estimation.
I have an HW95 and an R9 both in .177. My favorite pellet is the heavier 10.5 grain Crosman Premier Heavy.
It has excellent accuracy and bucks the wind better than the lighter pellet. I also managed to kill a squirrel at 95 yard with that pellet out of my R9 after about 5-6 shots. It will go through a soup can at 100 yards.
I don't have any experience with the .20 caliber but it would seem to me that trying a heavier pellet before switching calibers might be worth a try.
good point Mike I've tried the 10.34s and the accuracy wasn't good but that might have been the tin because the skirts were all deformed. My gun loses 2.5-3 fpe at the muzzle with Barracuda match 10.5s so that's no good. It normally makes 15 fpe with 8.44 so the gun is healthy. Maybe I have to keep searching for a heavy pellet it likes.
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I have a Hw95 (R9) in 177. It's very accurate. The toughest critter it's killed is a grey squirrel. I have recently considered changing it to 20 cal because I thought it would carry more energy than the 177 and be flatter than the same gun in 22. A turn of bad luck events put an end on my plans to switch to 20 and I should consider myself lucky now that 20 caliber pellets are so scarce. Anyway this 177 / 22 debate is always a bloodbath. My preference between the two on this rifle is 177. It's flatter shooting which is good if you are looking to hunt smaller critters at extended ranges. I killed a crow at 70 yards with 177 Hw50 and a starling at something like 104 yards (IIRC) with the Hw95.
22 is better if you're gonna wallop bigger critters like raccoons and possums inside 40 yards. Past that the loopy trajectory will require alot of range/holdover expertise to land the shot in the right place.
Bottom line is it depends on what you want to do with the gun and how good you are at range/holdover estimation.
I have an HW95 and an R9 both in .177. My favorite pellet is the heavier 10.5 grain Crosman Premier Heavy.
It has excellent accuracy and bucks the wind better than the lighter pellet. I also managed to kill a squirrel at 95 yard with that pellet out of my R9 after about 5-6 shots. It will go through a soup can at 100 yards.
I don't have any experience with the .20 caliber but it would seem to me that trying a heavier pellet before switching calibers might be worth a try.
good point Mike I've tried the 10.34s and the accuracy wasn't good but that might have been the tin because the skirts were all deformed. My gun loses 2.5-3 fpe at the muzzle with Barracuda match 10.5s so that's no good. It normally makes 15 fpe with 8.44 so the gun is healthy. Maybe I have to keep searching for a heavy pellet it likes.
At short ranges the lighter pellets are a little more accurate than the heavier pellets. However, that advantage diminishes at longer ranges.
If I were going to keep the distance at 25 yards or less, I'd probably keep shooting the lighter pellets. However, I like to stretch the range at which I shoot all my guns. The air rifles are no exception.
I like to hit soup cans at 100 yards with my air rifles. That isn't possible with consistency with the lighter pellets.
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I have a Hw95 (R9) in 177. It's very accurate. The toughest critter it's killed is a grey squirrel. I have recently considered changing it to 20 cal because I thought it would carry more energy than the 177 and be flatter than the same gun in 22. A turn of bad luck events put an end on my plans to switch to 20 and I should consider myself lucky now that 20 caliber pellets are so scarce. Anyway this 177 / 22 debate is always a bloodbath. My preference between the two on this rifle is 177. It's flatter shooting which is good if you are looking to hunt smaller critters at extended ranges. I killed a crow at 70 yards with 177 Hw50 and a starling at something like 104 yards (IIRC) with the Hw95.
22 is better if you're gonna wallop bigger critters like raccoons and possums inside 40 yards. Past that the loopy trajectory will require alot of range/holdover expertise to land the shot in the right place.
Bottom line is it depends on what you want to do with the gun and how good you are at range/holdover estimation.
I have an HW95 and an R9 both in .177. My favorite pellet is the heavier 10.5 grain Crosman Premier Heavy.
It has excellent accuracy and bucks the wind better than the lighter pellet. I also managed to kill a squirrel at 95 yard with that pellet out of my R9 after about 5-6 shots. It will go through a soup can at 100 yards.
I don't have any experience with the .20 caliber but it would seem to me that trying a heavier pellet before switching calibers might be worth a try.
good point Mike I've tried the 10.34s and the accuracy wasn't good but that might have been the tin because the skirts were all deformed. My gun loses 2.5-3 fpe at the muzzle with Barracuda match 10.5s so that's no good. It normally makes 15 fpe with 8.44 so the gun is healthy. Maybe I have to keep searching for a heavy pellet it likes.
At short ranges the lighter pellets are a little more accurate than the heavier pellets. However, that advantage diminishes at longer ranges.
If I were going to keep the distance at 25 yards or less, I'd probably keep shooting the lighter pellets. However, I like to stretch the range at which I shoot all my guns. The air rifles are no exception.
I like to hit soup cans at 100 yards with my air rifles. That isn't possible with consistency with the lighter pellets.
"At short ranges the lighter pellets are a little more accurate than the heavier pellets."
All depends of the gun and pellet!..........
For the first few seasons of sniping West Virginia squirrels my brother only shot boxed 10.5 grain Crosman Premiers because he liked the way they would drive through a squirrel at any angle through the vitals. After a couple seasons using the 10.5 grain CPH he switched to the boxed 7.9 grain Crosman Premiers because he found that the flatter trajectory of the CPL trumped the deeper penetration and slightly better wind drift resistance of the CPH.
Here are a couple 50 yard groups my brother shot with CPHs..........
(https://i.imgur.com/QDfRViZ.jpg)
Here are a couple 50 yard groups I shot using 7.9 grain boxed Crosman Premiers...........
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/d5v1VdP.jpg)
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When I decided to order a R9 I began asking around and sending PMs to those whose experience and knowledge I respect. I asked whether to get a .177 or a .22. My unofficial results was a little over a 1/3 said .22 and 2/3 said .177.
I'm very, very pleased with the .177 in my MM tuned R9 from FDAR.
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Interesting that 2/3 said .177.
I'm not going to do anything at the moment just for later if I decide to change. I like the 20 cal it does have a lot of the benefits of .177 and some of the .22 just expensive amo.
The biggest thing I've shot with mine is armadillo fun to shoot there nerves make them do a back flip about 2 ft. in the air.
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I'd pick the .177 every time.
Personally I've never had a .22 barrel from Weihrauch that was accurate enough to keep. Never had a problem from my .177s.
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Interesting that 2/3 said .177.
I'm not going to do anything at the moment just for later if I decide to change. I like the 20 cal it does have a lot of the benefits of .177 and some of the .22 just expensive amo.
The biggest thing I've shot with mine is armadillo fun to shoot there nerves make them do a back flip about 2 ft. in the air.
"20 cal it does have a lot of the benefits of .177 and some of the .22"
LOL....that's the "Doc Beeman" line of reasoning when he was pushing the .20 cal R1 and .20 pellets he was selling at the time claiming that the .20 R1 was the best of both worlds. In general I would agree with this for piston guns with large and long receivers having a large swept volume of air (R1 has a 30mm receiver). LOL......It's also counter productive to squish the same volume of air down a skinny .177 bore.
When I bought a .20 R9 decades ago (26mm receiver) I found the opposite to be true. My .20 cal was the "simply worst of both worlds" having a loopier than .177 cal trajectory" and less impact at the target than the .22 cal (judging by tree squirrels taken).
As mentioned in other replies, after 18 months of messing with the .20/.22 barrels on my R9s I sold both the .20 & .22 barrels reverting back to .177 never to look back.
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One real advantage of the R9 in .177 is that you can detune it to 12 fpe and shoot light pellets or/and you can get up to 14-15 fpe and shoot heavy pellets.
I would not shoot any pellet heavier than 16 grains in a .22 R9.
-Y
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In a 22 i like from 10 gr. to about 14 gr. and in a .177 7.5 to max 10gr.
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I like to hit soup cans at 100 yards with my air rifles. That isn't possible with consistency with the lighter pellets.
I have to disagree. Maybe if the wind is up. But once dialed in it's not that hard. Also my 15 fpe gun sends a 8.44 through both sides of a metal coffee can at 100yds. It's hard to make up for 2-3 fpe less at the barrel in BC with a 177 pellet. The reason I have stayed with mid weight pellets. So far.
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"Here are a couple 50 yard groups my brother shot with CPHs.........."
Those pics have been SO well-used sir. How about surprising us with new results from this decade? :)
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Those pics have been SO well-used sir. How about surprising us with new results from this decade? :)
"LOL....what's the problem????"
There are probably more than a couple new readers on this forum that have never seen my old and new pics and LOL...."one pic is worth a thousand words".
The two "CPH R9 groups posted were shot "back to back" and at's the only scan I have of groups my brother shot in 2001 using my home tuned .177 R9 that was sold to him while I still lived in WV. They get posted because they're shot from a bench and show the abilities of a well tuned .177 R9 and CPHs better than my "bucket and sticks" shooting style. Therefore the groups demonstrate better the removal of the shooter from the equation.
"How about surprising us with new results from this decade?"
LOL.......demanding aren't we? ::) Considering that I'm currently 75 years old with "eyes to match" and don't shoot as much as I used to, here are a few later groups just for your enjoyment. However I'm guessing that you've also seen these more than a few times since I post here rather regularly.
Here is my best .177 HW95 group I shot a 4 years ago...........
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg)
Two years ago.............
(https://i.imgur.com/6jbM8Jw.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/zlbo3Un.jpg)
Two weeks ago...........
(https://i.imgur.com/0hbcMs2.jpg)
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Here's my thoughts on this topic, I personally want a smooth performing rifle, a good shot cycle leads to better accuracy in a spring gun period! I find the larger calibers like the .20 or .22cal to be way better performers for longer range shooting, with energy over a .177cal, if your planning to shoot under 50yds? the rifle you have with a 10.5gn will probably do the job! if your planning to shoot larger critters like ground hogs or coon's your going to need to shoot pellets that are harder in their castings like the Crosman pellets, out at distances beyond 30yds, Theirs nothing bad about a .177cal 95/R9 rifle in this caliber, with the right set up, I just find it more of a violent and more hold sensitive over the larger bores, I hear folks complain about LOOPY or more hold over with the .22cal or .20cal, which IMO is not worth the argument for me! Learn to what you have! It's called Marksmanship abilities! This what makes a true shooter! ;)
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I got an idea.... how bout we have a little more respect for each other?
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Those pics have been SO well-used sir. How about surprising us with new results from this decade? :)
"LOL....what's the problem????"
There are probably more than a couple new readers on this forum that have never seen my old and new pics and LOL...."one pic is worth a thousand words".
The two "CPH R9 groups posted were shot "back to back" and at's the only scan I have of groups my brother shot in 2001 using my home tuned .177 R9 that was sold to him while I still lived in WV. They get posted because they're shot from a bench and show the abilities of a well tuned .177 R9 and CPHs better than my "bucket and sticks" shooting style. Therefore the groups demonstrate better the removal of the shooter from the equation.
"How about surprising us with new results from this decade?"
LOL.......demanding aren't we? ::) Considering that I'm currently 75 years old with "eyes to match" and don't shoot as much as I used to, here are a few later groups just for your enjoyment. However I'm guessing that you've also seen these more than a few times since I post here rather regularly.
Here is my best .177 HW95 group I shot a 4 years ago...........
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg)
Two years ago.............
(https://i.imgur.com/6jbM8Jw.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/zlbo3Un.jpg)
Two weeks ago...........
(https://i.imgur.com/0hbcMs2.jpg)
TOUCHE
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I'm not trying to something or that I don't appreciate the pictures and all the good info I have gotten from this forum so don't think I am picking on anyone.
I see a lot of targets with some excellent shooting.
What I would like to see is some targets shot free hand standing, sitting and prone at 15 to 20 yards or more with or with out a scope.
I hope that no buddy takes this the wrong way.
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I don't shoot that way so, I'm out.
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I don't shoot that way so, I'm out.
LOL.....same here!
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avator and nced how do you shoot and is there something wrong with shooting off hand ?
If you do try it you might find it is worth doing and fun. Tin cans a ball try a raw egg.
I sure hope that you keep up with this post but the most important things is that you enjoy what you do and how you do it.
Thank your both for comments and I am sorry if I alienated either of you. That is not my intention to alienated anyone.
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avator and nced how do you shoot and is there something wrong with shooting off hand ?
If you do try it you might find it is worth doing and fun. Tin cans a ball try a raw egg.
I sure hope that you keep up with this post but the most important things is that you enjoy what you do and how you do it.
Thank your both for comments and I am sorry if I alienated either of you. That is not my intention to alienated anyone.
"is there something wrong with shooting off hand ?"
Nothing wrong at all, it's simply that I'm not a good "offhander" so it isn't something I would normally do if shootin' critters.
"If you do try it you might find it is worth doing and fun"
LOL....when I first started shooting field target matches prior to the addition of the "hunter division" all my field target shooting (and my brother's) was done offhand. The reason was that the traditional "pretzel sittin' position" had nothing to do with the way we hunted squirrels but at least the offhand class was useful for practicing. Anywhoo....for me "offhandin' isn't "fun", it's simply something I have to do at one of the "forced position" lanes and more frustratin' than fun! The very first field taarget match my brother and I attended was at the DIFTA club in Maryland and we were squadded with a very excellent standing shooter that shooting scores that would place about mid way up the "open class". After the match the feedback we got was "you seem to shoot properly, however you're not very good shots HarDeHarHar"! LOL....in 2002 I even shot 1st place in the standing class at one club but it was still less than fun. The downside of the standing shots was that I couldn't judge if a hit was simply due to "dumb luck" or a miss was due to "bad luck"!.........
(https://i.imgur.com/sgEK9KQ.jpg)
"That is not my intention to alienated anyone"
Why do you think I was "alienated simply" because there is a difference of opinion?
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I'd pick the .177 every time.
Personally I've never had a .22 barrel from Weihrauch that was accurate enough to keep. Never had a problem from my .177s.
+1 Limbshaker -
My limited experience matches yours ...
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avator and nced how do you shoot and is there something wrong with shooting off hand ?
If you do try it you might find it is worth doing and fun. Tin cans a ball try a raw egg.
I sure hope that you keep up with this post but the most important things is that you enjoy what you do and how you do it.
Thank your both for comments and I am sorry if I alienated either of you. That is not my intention to alienated anyone.
LOL... I'm not alienated in the least.
I just don't have the talent, skills or ability to shoot offhand. I've had total reverse shoulder replacement on the left side and can't support a rifle steady enough. I use bipod, tripod or bench rest. In the woods I use whatever is available.
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When I was growing up, probably around 14 or 15, I primarily used a .22lr to hunt squirrels. I stood using opensights. To me I felt it cheating to use a limb to rest against. As I approached adulthood I began hunting squirrels with a .22lr revolver as well. I regularly shot pecans out if the tops of pecan trees with my .22lr rifle.
I was hesitant to put a scope on my 22lr because it made it difficult to shoot a running squirrel. Even a scope seemed like cheating to me because I felt it gave me an unfair advantage. I could chase a squirrel up a tree and with the scope mounted rifle scan the limbs to locate the squirrel.
Later in life I found myself not as sturdy as when I was younger and started using a limb to rest my hand on. I still hunted a lot with open sights up until my mid forties when I started wearing bifocals.
Now I can't really see well enough to shoot open much past 15 yds and shooting while standing is quickly becoming a thing of the past.
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Mostly just wondering if any one else shot other than using a rest.
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Pretty sure many here shoot offhand.
Maybe if you began another thread dedicated to the topic they will chime in.
Enjoy.
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You are rite so back to the original post.
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avator and nced how do you shoot and is there something wrong with shooting off hand ?
If you do try it you might find it is worth doing and fun. Tin cans a ball try a raw egg.
I sure hope that you keep up with this post but the most important things is that you enjoy what you do and how you do it.
Thank your both for comments and I am sorry if I alienated either of you. That is not my intention to alienated anyone.
LOL... I'm not alienated in the least.
I just don't have the talent, skills or ability to shoot offhand. I've had total reverse shoulder replacement on the left side and can't support a rifle steady enough. I use bipod, tripod or bench rest. In the woods I use whatever is available.
"In the woods I use whatever is available."
Same here since I would never shoot at living critters offhand with my offhand shooting skills. If I can't use a "gun support" (tree limb, etc) or my cross sticks for aiming I simply pass up the shot.
LOL, kinda makes me wonder how shooting offhand enters into a "R9 barrel discussion". Seems to me that there is a NEED to limit the "shooter effect" by using a steady rest regardless.
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Rite on shooting posistion and back to the R9.
And I'm still no closer to what is Best on an R9 .177 or .22
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The best for me is my HW95L in .22 which is MOS at 25 yards.
(https://i.imgur.com/oOWqnNwl.jpg)
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Rite on shooting posistion and back to the R9.
And I'm still no closer to what is Best on an R9 .177 or .22
As many have said before - .177 or .22 is really just a personal choice - there is no set answer.
I bought a R9 .22 and switched barrels to .20 - just another individual choice - no hard facts ( and I am an engineer ).
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Lee, I have an HW98 .177 and an R9 in .20. I have barrels in .177, .20 and .22 for the R9(indirectly the 98 too as they are a swap). Given a choice I'd lean to the .177. Not saying there isn't great choices in the bigger calibers -it is because finding several great pellets in .177 makes life a bit easier. Personally I prefer the shot cycle of the .22. With ballistic apps I don't find holdover/under much different at real airgun ranges. My opinion, others will disagree.
I used to shoot exclusively offhand but due to some past & recent surgeries on my shoulders, bucket & sticks or limbs & rocks are about as steady as I will be able to hold.
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Rite on shooting posistion and back to the R9.
And I'm still no closer to what is Best on an R9 .177 or .22
Get them both, then you can tell us!
A replacement barrel is <1/2 the cost of a new gun, so buy the barrel figure out what you like and sell the other one.
-Y
PS when it doubt, flip a coin. When in serious doubt, ask your wife. ;D
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When in serious doubt, ask your wife. My wife is in favor of neither. Take my to Walmart for shoes. ???
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When in serious doubt, ask your wife. My wife is in favor of neither. Take my to Walmart for shoes. ???
So which won the coin flip? 8) :o
-Y
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A I win
B She wins
C I kick the dog
D checked = None of the above LOL
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My view is if you're gonna shoot targets .177 would be my choice, if you're gonna shoot critters .22 would be my choice. I'm a .22 fan, pellets are not expensive and it produces more energy than .177 or .20
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I'm leaning more toward the .22 I don't plan on doing much hunting with it bit if i did I think the .22 would be the best.
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I have a full power 460mag in .22cal, IMO this is the best offering for this power plant, even detuned, for all around shooting, myself personally I would buy a rifle better suited for a 12lb power like an HW50, or a HW95, just due to the size of the 460mag, compared to the other 2 rifles, but I understand work with what you got, ;D
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I'm leaning more toward the .22 I don't plan on doing much hunting with it bit if i did I think the .22 would be the best.
Just get the .22 then. You've got a 50/50 chance of getting it right. No I take that back. Either will be great.
Anyway it's time for me to celebrate!
This is my 4,000th posts.
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Happy 4k postday.
Seems like just yesterday for me....
Time"s fun when your shooting flies.
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Happy 4k postday.
Seems like just yesterday for me....
Time"s fun when your shooting flies.
Thanks.
Oh, how's the first day back? Ya busy?
Sorry, didn't mean to derail the post.
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Walked into a few issues but nothing we couldn't handle...
Gonna be a long week for sure.
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Good Read !
Best Wishes - Tom
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At the time I picked up my R9 .20cal. I kinda thought it would be in the middle have speed and hit like a train.
But .20s are getting harder to find and not so cheap. I kinda think in a short time there won't be any to get and all my guns are .22 except 1 .177 I think it is going to be the .22 barrel and sell the .20 barrel and pellets with it. :(
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At the time I picked up my R9 .20cal. I kinda thought it would be in the middle have speed and hit like a train.
But .20s are getting harder to find and not so cheap. I kinda think in a short time there won't be any to get and all my guns are .22 except 1 .177 I think it is going to be the .22 barrel and sell the .20 barrel and pellets with it. :(
Lee I just spent a lot of money hours ago on a 20 caliber barrel and associated parts for my Hw95. I'm sorry I read this too late. If you ever do decide to sell the 20 caliber barrel and pellets please PM me. I could always convert my 22 caliber Hw50 to 20 caliber.
Thanks
Ron
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I'm leaning more toward the .22 I don't plan on doing much hunting with it bit if i did I think the .22 would be the best.
IMHO The .22 should be your choice as you will be completely satisfied. Full discloser of course a .22 is all I have ever had!
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My view is if you're gonna shoot targets .177 would be my choice, if you're gonna shoot critters .22 would be my choice. I'm a .22 fan, pellets are not expensive and it produces more energy than .177 or .20
Ya, but thing is hw in .22 is kinda weak vs ..
I mean you shoot a 14 g and may get 680fps
Vs. say Gamo (for example sake) that shoots it 825+?
Hard to do he.22 for hunting with more powerful available. Harder hitting/ energy , flatter shooting, longer range .
Now let's move up to a 16 or 18 g pellet now what that Gamo pushing them out maybe still over 700+ that hw is falling flat and rainbowing them in at best. Lost of energy and all
Now in .177 there in a good spot but once you get .22 it's not so great.
Maybe I'm wrong but if hunting I want the power to sling a heavy pellet at a flat good clip
Not lobbing them in slow
If I was changing the r9 barrel it would be to .177 and get a stronger rifle in .22 forr hunting. (Opinion)
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DEECO, The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter, I agree a more powerful rifle has its place in hunting at further distances, I would not have a problem shooting a squirrel with a head shot at 50yds with an HW95 in .22cal @630fps, because I have done it a few times, most people want a laser beam rifle IMO because they don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope, ::)
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I would have a hard time shooting a squirrel in the head at 50 yards with a 12ga. shot gun and with a pellet gun. Not even
To tell the truth I'm not sure what I would want a pellet gun for other than minor pests and killing a lot of paper. I have the R9 and a Hatsan 125 Vortex neither one would good for anything much bigger than a fox or push it for a big dog. For squirrel or rabbit my 1322 would work or my Hatsan QB23 .177.
So does Cal. mean that much or do we just thinking that bigger is better for what we use it for?
Also if you had to live off what you killed what would you want .177 or .22?
Now we could go off on a whole different direction that boggles the mind.
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DEECO, The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter, I agree a more powerful rifle has its place in hunting at further distances, I would not have a problem shooting a squirrel with a head shot at 50yds with an HW95 in .22cal @630fps, because I have done it a few times, most people want a laser beam rifle IMO because they don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope, ::)
Yep Mark and I'm one of them. You're an excellent shot to make a 50 yard head shot with a mortar. Can it be done? Sure you prove it. My 177 Hw50 can just as easily make that same shot with a wider margin for error. This argument is getting old. Yes there are people that possess the skill to land that shot BUT alot more skill is needed to do it. If a 177 will do the job easier, why not use it? Heck why not admit it? The 22 has little advantage over 177 in mid power and low power guns. Sure they retain more energy but they need more energy for the same penetration. Plus what 22 caliber has over 177 in wind drift, it loses double or triple in drop. So the same argument for learning to dope 22 drop can be made for learning to dope 177 drift.
The part that you may be forgetting is if you hunt in unfamiliar areas without posted distances rangefinding becomes far more critical with loopy trajectories. That's not an easy skill to learn and that's why some people prefer flatter shooting guns. Sure you could use a laser rangefinder, your side focus/AO and even your mildot reticle if you use it enough and are conscious of your current magnification but in real woods hunting you're seldom afforded the time or the luxury of making such extra movements before the quarry has left. If I had to shoot a raccoon in my small backyard I'd likely grab my 22 Hw50. If I'm hunting squirrels in the woods at any unknown distance I'll always grab my 177 Hw50. Why? because I can make the shot and the selected weapon is adequate for the job. There's no shame in taking easy over hard when there's no real benefit to choosing the hard way. Or otherwise said the easy way still works and allows more people to be successful.
To each their own but let's not dismiss the reality of the extra skill required to shoot loopy guns that quite frankly some people may not be able to learn. Some people just don't have the opportunity to practice enough to get that skilled doping distances, wind drift and drop.
Also let's face some people no matter how much they practice, they will never be proficient. Sort of like me and a piano. Lol. No matter what were told we are not all created equal. We're all blessed by God with special talents, but we are not all blessed with the same special talents. I'm excellent with mechanical things and terrible at sports, music, etc, etc. Like wise many musicians and athletes are lousy mechanics. Let's remember that we're addressing the masses here and let's give them the easiest effective solution.
Stay well
Ron
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DEECO, The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter, I agree a more powerful rifle has its place in hunting at further distances, I would not have a problem shooting a squirrel with a head shot at 50yds with an HW95 in .22cal @630fps, because I have done it a few times, most people want a laser beam rifle IMO because they don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope, ::)
"don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope"
I started shooting field target competition to practice for WV fall squirrel season during the off season, the elephant in the room ISN'T "learning how to use a mildot scope", the reality IS that properly judging the distance to the target for longer shots past the zero distance required more skill than I possess. Hunting squirrels with .177, .20 and .22 cal R9s I learned that out to my 30 yard zero distance it didn't make any difference which "R9 cal" I shot, however there was a BIG DIFFERENCE in "hit-ability" past the zero distance when the .20 and .22 pellets were dropping over an inch for a couple extra yards.
There are those that cry "use a range finder for longer shots", however that really doesn't work out well when a twitching squirrel is milling around gathering acorns and not remaining still long enough to get an accurate rangefind, then consult a dope sheet to get the proper holdover, then take aim and squeeze the trigger. LOL, my brother did try his lazer rangefinder for a couple hunts and found that it was more of a hindrance than a help. Another issue with shooting "loopy trajectories" (even a .177 trajectory is loopy compared even to the .22 rimfire) is that using a rangefinder for determining "which mildot to use" for a steep angled shot (either up or down) is the fact that steep angled shots are very prone to errors in aiming, especially true with a more loopy trajectory. My brother and I used to take our .177 R9s into the WV woods and practice shooting back lit leaves and pine cones in the top of trees. LOL....in one combination of distance plus shooting angle I was regularly hitting a small pine cone 50 yards away (measured to the tree trunk) and centering the pine cone every time using a "30 yard hold"!
Anywhoo, it's obvious that a heavy pellet at higher velocity will give "squirrel hunting advantage" IF ACCURATE, however the larger more powerful springers also have the disadvantages of awkward length in the woods, a lot of weight to lug around (weight being the reason I only took my HW77k on more than two WV squirrel hunts), ammo cost without "deep pockets", and the general shot cycle of an 18+fpe springer.
Anywhoo.....this target shows my R9 shooting 7.9 grain CPLs at 862fps had an extra 1" drop in trajectory in only 10 yards from 40 yards to 50 yards (1/2" drop @40 to 1 1/2" drop @50) and the .20/.22 from the R9 was a LOT loopier............
(https://i.imgur.com/a7azSng.jpg)
My "loopy pellet" solution was to TRY developing some stalking skills to get very close to my "zero distance" before taking a shot, also (as mentioned) practicing steep angled and horizontal shots in the woods.
Another cry supporting the larger calibers is the "more fpe at the target" mantra. Will, during my former rimfire shooting days I've had more than a couple squirrels "double lunged" with over 100fpe from a .22 rimfire that still scrambled a dozen yards to get into a "tree hole" after the hit. When stalking squirrels with my brother down a WV trail, taking alternating shots, we came upon a squirrel gathering nuts in the path about 20 yards away. It was my brother's turn so he offhanded the squirrel and with the shot the squirrel jumped straight up in the air and made a "mad dash" to the base of the walnut tree about 10 yards away. Thinking my brother missed the shot I was laughin' and commented "maybe you should chuck a rock the next time HarDeHarHar". Well, after the squirrel climbed about 3 feet up the tree it fell off dead. Sine my brother was using .22 short hollow point ammo we took note that the .22 cal entrance hole became a "finger sized exit hole". When cleaning the squirrels taken that day it was noticed that my brother's offhand shot literally took off the top half of heart. LOL....if on accasion a tree squirrel can take a 100+fpe hit from a .22LR or a 80fps hit from a .22 short hp and keep on going I really don't think the hit of a .22 cal pellet exiting the nuzzle at a piddly 18fpe would matter very much. That is why I always preferred "two holes with one shot, one hole in and one hole out" with a penetrating .177 dome than having a .22 pellet dump all its "massive" 15fpe inside a critter..............
(https://i.imgur.com/jOqzhB7.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/nkJD2lU.jpg)
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DEECO, The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter, I agree a more powerful rifle has its place in hunting at further distances, I would not have a problem shooting a squirrel with a head shot at 50yds with an HW95 in .22cal @630fps, because I have done it a few times, most people want a laser beam rifle IMO because they don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope, ::)
The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter,
Fine but the hunting woods don't care about that one bit.
So I can't still use a mildot scope on anything? I don't get that line above.
What's to say any rifle is not a accurate shooter?
Then the talk was energy ,right? No matter how elegant accurate shooter, you feel it is your never perfect pellet placement.
I got nothing against a hw in .177 bit you got to admit you jump to say .22 you take a power hit like 150 -200 fps?
What's bone crushing that 680fps or one at 800+ then you move up from a 14g to 18g
Now that hw suffers more.
I got a new r9 coming in .177 so in that Cal I'm good with them . Around here a squirrel ain't waiting for you to get 10-20 yards..lol there not city squirrel that come close for hand feeding.
Ya, I sure preferred a hw/r9 in .22 but I found I need to be around 800 with them . I have to have like a squirrel runn around with a pellet lodged under it's skin .
Anyway good luck and enjoy...
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What are the stats on a .177 using aprox a 7.5gr and a 10.5gr pellet?
Or is there an advantage of a heaver over a lighter pellet?
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DEECO, The HW95 is not meant to be power house, its an elegant accurate shooter, I agree a more powerful rifle has its place in hunting at further distances, I would not have a problem shooting a squirrel with a head shot at 50yds with an HW95 in .22cal @630fps, because I have done it a few times, most people want a laser beam rifle IMO because they don't want to learn how to shoot a lower powered spring gun and learn how to use a mildot scope, ::)
Fine but the hunting woods don't care about that one bit.
So I can't still use a mildot scope on anything? I don't get that line above.
What's to say any rifle is not a accurate shooter?
Then the talk was energy ,right? No matter how elegant accurate shooter, you feel it is your never perfect pellet placement.
I got nothing against a hw in .177 bit you got to admit you jump to say .22 you take a power hit like 150 -200 fps?
What's bone crushing that 680fps or one at 800+ then you move up from a 14g to 18g
Now that hw suffers more.
I got a new r9 coming in .177 so in that Cal I'm good with them . Around here a squirrel ain't waiting for you to get 10-20 yards..lol there not city squirrel that come close for hand feeding.
Ya, I sure preferred a hw/r9 in .22 but I found I need to be around 800 with them . I have to have like a squirrel runn around with a pellet lodged under it's skin .
Anyway good luck and enjoy...
A few respectful PERSONAL differing points of view.
"The HW95 is not meant to be power house,"
LOL.....when I bought my first higher power springer decades ago which was a .177 HW35 the current R9/HW95 would have been considered a "super magnum" since the HW35 was rated at 755fps and even the FWB124 at that time was rated at only 800fps. Even compared with the HW30, R7, HW50 the R9/HW95 is indeed a powerhouse considering the weight of the gun. LOL....my HW95 shot 7.9 grain CPLs at 880fps out of the box so I detuned it to reduce the velocity to around 860fps.
"So I can't still use a mildot scope on anything? I don't get that line above."
LOL.......as long as you can hit the aim point at the maximum distance you shoot mildots don't mean anything. Now when shooting at distances other than your zero distance using holdover aiming is very useful. When I first started shooting field target where the targets are set at unknown distances from 10 yards to 55 yards I used a scope with a duplex reticle. The AO was marked with "sharp focus marks" which holdover to use after focusing. For example, using my 4-16x40 Bushnell Elite 4200 scope with the duplex reticle I placed 4th in the very first hunter class field target national match that was combined PCP and piston. Out of 17 hunter class entries only 5 were shooting springers........
(https://i.imgur.com/GexJKzM.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/OxxRvj9.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/5zSwz55.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/uQzETbd.jpg)
I later migrated to "marked reticle scopes" and used the same system of marking my side wheel with symbols showing which "holdover mark" to use for different "sharp focus distances"............
(https://i.imgur.com/1PlpIEH.jpg) (https://i.imgur.com/urnuA18.jpg)
In general, as long as my shooting distance is between about 18 yards and 32 yards I don't need to "hold over" at all to get "minute of squirrel head" hits, however when shooting conditions are good I'll "scope rangefind" 40ish yard targets and use the appropriate reticle mark.
"you got to admit you jump to say .22 you take a power hit"
I didn't find any difference in effectiveness on tree squirrels with a brain hit regardless of the the caliber. As far as pure fpe goes, my .20 R9 would shoot 14.3 grain Premiers at 650fps (not tuned) for about 13.5 fpe and the same gun with a .177 barrel shot 7.9 grain CPLs @ 890fps for about 14fpe. LOL, hardly enough difference to matter however a 7.9 grain CPL @ 890fps is a lot flatter flying and it doesn't matter at all what the numbers are if you can't penetrate the vitals.
"Around here a squirrel ain't waiting for you to get 10-20 yards"
Really short distances opens up a whole new "can of worms" with the loopy trajectory of a pellet because my .177 R9 or HW95 will hit about 1/2" low at 10 yards. During the early season when there were leaves on the trees stalking into about 30 yards was easier, however during the late season when the trees were bare is where my "bucket and sticks hunter class field target practice" paid off. I would place my "sittin' bucket" at the base of a comfy tree trunk where squirrels were, sit on the bucket with the "tree trunk back support", get a "scope rangefind" on all trees around that were 40 yards away, rest the cocked R9 on the cross stick, then wait for squirrels to cross the "magic 40 yard line" before aiming and shooting preferring to wait till the squirrels got closer if possible. LOL, in the west Virginia woods it wasn't hard to get "reasonable distance shots" at squirrels if quiet and patient!
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I've shot most things between a .22 powder to a 90 mm cannon and did quite well with all. Pellet guns about all I have done is targets off a bench.
Pellet guns are a different area than I am really use to.
A lot of the info I am asking is just for my knowledge just in case I need it at some point in time and to get some experience. That might sound funny to some people and that's OK. In preparation just in case I might need it.
And no I'm not a nut.lol
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Lee, that's why we do what we do! Not everybody is the same and we all do things differently! your going to get a wide range of opinions on usage and and calibers, everybody has their favorites and WHY!!! I'm going to have to agree with ED a lot! A good HW95 or R9 in .177CAL if your a decent springer shooter and have your rifle set up right its a pretty tuff gun to beat! But its not a do all! That's my opinion, I personally prefer the larger calibers because of the shot cycle, hold over to me is nothing because I have learned over the yrs how to shoot the larger caliber lower powered guns at distances most people think is un realistic, but that's my experience with shooting, I also think some folks like sweet and easy? not me! I love the challenge with a spring gun if I didn't I be shooting a custom PCP from ALLEN Z, where I point and pull the trigger! Nothing to it! JMO 8)
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I've shot most things between a .22 powder to a 90 mm cannon and did quite well with all. Pellet guns about all I have done is targets off a bench.
Pellet guns are a different area than I am really use to.
A lot of the info I am asking is just for my knowledge just in case I need it at some point in time and to get some experience. That might sound funny to some people and that's OK. In preparation just in case I might need it.
And no I'm not a nut.lol
Lee,
The hardest thing to learn about spring powered pellets guns is the artillery hold. This is where you hold the gun very loosely and let the gun recoil the way it wants too. ;)
With a PCP, pellet gun you can hold the gun as tight as you want.
-Y
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Lee, that's why we do what we do! Not everybody is the same and we all do things differently! your going to get a wide range of opinions on usage and and calibers, everybody has their favorites and WHY!!! I'm going to have to agree with ED a lot! A good HW95 or R9 in .177CAL if your a decent springer shooter and have your rifle set up right its a pretty tuff gun to beat! But its not a do all! That's my opinion, I personally prefer the larger calibers because of the shot cycle, hold over to me is nothing because I have learned over the yrs how to shoot the larger caliber lower powered guns at distances most people think is un realistic, but that's my experience with shooting, I also think some folks like sweet and easy? not me! I love the challenge with a spring gun if I didn't I be shooting a custom PCP from ALLEN Z, where I point and pull the trigger! Nothing to it! JMO 8)
Mark what you can do is not unrealistic but it requires skills that most people either don't have time to develop or perhaps the talent. What you can do and what is easier for most people are two different things. As human beings we innately feel that everyone should understand our point of view and adopt it. It's just normal psychology. Realizing that we're not all gifted equally and it's ok if people have different views from us is a part of the wisdom we're supposed to gain as get older. Most of what we deal with in life is subjective. Still given the latitude for differences in thinking there's some facts that are hard to argue with. No matter how much our personal talents and experiences defy them. We are not all the same and not every glove fits every hand..
Am I impressed at your proclaimed abilities? Of course but it doesn't mean I can duplicate them. What works for you might not work for me. What works for me might not work for someone else. The difference is I don't call them lazy or stupid because they don't do things exactly like I do. Different strokes for different folks. I honestly think Ed and Deeco have a much better grasp on airgun hunting than either you or I. Sometimes it's best to let it be and listen to or at least respect the people actually doing it on a regular basis. I will discuss mechanical stuff with people with some confidence because of my extensive technical background but I submit my ego to those with more experience in other areas.
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Ron agree with you 100% not trying to knock anyone's views or knowledge, I also agree I've gotten a little tunnel vison on my views over the yrs 8)
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Ron agree with you 100% not trying to knock anyone's views or knowledge, I also agree I've gotten a little tunnel vison on my views over the yrs 8)
"I've gotten a little tunnel vison on my views over the yrs "
LOL....me too! After trying different options over the years with my different "HW platform springers" I've settled on what works for me and that is my focus why trying to give points of view. Definitely not the only valid points of view for all!
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I'm very surprised, Yogi gave an unusual response right at the beginning of this thread, and then the classic .177 vs .22 debate continued like nothing. Half scratching my head in curiosity and half laughing. It would seem this would have ended there, with that bombshell response. But no. Lol.
It really doesn't matter, the caliber won't make a difference if you put the lead in the right place. Figure out your realistic range you normally shoot (for trajectory), energy needed for quarry, look at pellet availability and cost and just go with it. Unless going after 30-40 pound creatures, 5-10fpe on target in either caliber is usually more than plenty for the "usual" game.
Best luck to you. Take it easy.
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Absolutely AGREE ED what works for us works ;D
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Practice, practice, practice...
I need to learn my gun, my scope and my own abilities with both. I'm sending a clunky hunk of lead down range at relatively slow velocities.. as opposed to a precision bullet at supersonic speeds.
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I'm very surprised, Yogi gave an unusual response right at the beginning of this thread, and then the classic .177 vs .22 debate continued like nothing. Half scratching my head in curiosity and half laughing. It would seem this would have ended there, with that bombshell response. But no. Lol.
It really doesn't matter, the caliber won't make a difference if you put the lead in the right place. Figure out your realistic range you normally shoot (for trajectory), energy needed for quarry, look at pellet availability and cost and just go with it. Unless going after 30-40 pound creatures, 5-10fpe on target in either caliber is usually more than plenty for the "usual" game.
Best luck to you. Take it easy.
Zack,
I recently saw a coyote right in the middle of my street. I keep wondering if I have a 16-17 fpe .22 in my hands at the time, would I take the shot? :-[ No more than 10-15 yards...
If I was holding a 16 fpe .177, I would not even think about it.....
-Y
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I'm very surprised, Yogi gave an unusual response right at the beginning of this thread, and then the classic .177 vs .22 debate continued like nothing. Half scratching my head in curiosity and half laughing. It would seem this would have ended there, with that bombshell response. But no. Lol.
It really doesn't matter, the caliber won't make a difference if you put the lead in the right place. Figure out your realistic range you normally shoot (for trajectory), energy needed for quarry, look at pellet availability and cost and just go with it. Unless going after 30-40 pound creatures, 5-10fpe on target in either caliber is usually more than plenty for the "usual" game.
Best luck to you. Take it easy.
Zack,
I recently saw a coyote right in the middle of my street. I keep wondering if I have a 16-17 fpe .22 in my hands at the time, would I take the shot? :-[ No more than 10-15 yards...
If I was holding a 16 fpe .177, I would not even think about it.....
-Y
When my brother was stalking squirrels at "the ole home place" outside Harrisonburg, VA he spotted a 'yote in a gulch at only about 30 yards away. Since my brother was on the edge of the gultch hidden by grass and the breeze was away from the 'yote my brother was able to place a 7.9 grain CPL on the "flat between the eyes" when the critter looked up at him. The hard lead .177 CPL from his Beeman R9 penetrated the skull into the brain dropping the 'yote.
At my uncles farm near "the ole home place" he raises sheep and coyotes have become a problem in the last few years. My uncle told me that mostly the lambs are taken and the coyotes seem to enjoy simply killing the sheep because often only the "muzzles" (do sheep have muzzles?) would be crushed and the lamb dropped uneaten. Obviously such a damaged lamb is a loss so the farmers in the area occasionally go on night hunts for the coyotes because they loose their beagles and pets to the coyotes. On one hunt my uncle found an abandoned den that had the collar of one of his missing beagles.
Anywhoo....as with most things related to airgun hunting it's all about precise placement and enough power to penetrate the vitals.
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Yogi, I agree .177 can be effective against lager critters with proper placement, and in some instances at certain power levels may be better than .22 (Or .25). Usually most who buy airguns (that I know) only go after squirrels, rabbits or similar sized (or smaller) animals. Sometimes raccoon if PB's aren't an option. I'm still laughing a bit to the 40lb monkey reply.
It amazes me what some members here are able to accomplish with what I consider very mild power levels. I've seen first hand what 20+ fpe can do in .177, or ~30 fpe in .22. What I've read what others do with 13-16fpe rifles has me (almost) question the need/want for higher energy levels. The R9/HW95 platform is impressive but if going after bigger-small game I personally would prefer to have more power than less.
Ed, I always enjoy the stories and agree placement with enough power to hit the vitals is key.
I personally have no prefered caliber, but think one should pick the right tool for the job. The HW95 I have in .177 is great, but just use It for light yard duty and plinking. If it were a .22 it would serve the same purposes. I've gone to the dark side and came up with a 33+ fpe .177, questioning if it's a bit much now ;D
I still don't think there's a "right" or "wrong" caliber, just how one intends on using it. Hopefully the OP isn't spun in circles in their decision.
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Still undecided I like the powder of the .22 but I like the speed and distance of the .177. I think if the .177 liked heavy pellets it would be better.
But then would a heavy .177 act the same as a medium weight .22?
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I'm not trying to something or that I don't appreciate the pictures and all the good info I have gotten from this forum so don't think I am picking on anyone.
I see a lot of targets with some excellent shooting.
What I would like to see is some targets shot free hand standing, sitting and prone at 15 to 20 yards or more with or with out a scope.
I hope that no buddy takes this the wrong way.
I have both 177 and 22 barrels for my HW95. I bought it as a 177. Never had a 22 air rifle so I bought a 22 barrel. So far I think I like it better as a 22, but I haven’t shot any critters with it, so I can’t comment n that.
In 22 I am getting 700fps with 13.43 AA Falcons.
I didn’t see any off hand targets posted as you requested.
The target on the left is my 95 in 22, the right is my HW30 177. Both shot indoors off hand with peep sight last winter @ 10m.