GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => European/Asian Air Gun Gates => German AirGun Gate => Topic started by: byhsu on February 21, 2021, 10:31:41 PM
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I will be opening up my HW35, I think I might have a bad Piston Seal, sometimes the shots are high sometimes not. I am considering the Custom Air Seals, anybody used them? I want to get something that I don't really have to resize, from their website it says is low friction.
Also, while the rifle is open, i will polish the ends and put some lube. I am also looking to add a Top hat and a tighter fitting spring guide, from what I've seen , the HW35 doesn't come with a top hat and the spring guide could be more tight fitting to minimize vibration.
Now I don't have a Lathe. Is there anyway to make a top hat and spring guide without? Or Where can I buy them for a factory HW35 spring? I am also considering the TbT tuning kit for HW35. I am not interested in increasing power of my rifle, so I am not considering the Vortek kit.
Thank You
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You don't state what year of HW35 you have, so that would be a bit helpful. Send us the serial number and we can date it, unless you know what vintage it is.
Vortek does not necessarily mean an increase in power. Tom at Vortek can cut coils or otherwise get you a kit and customize it to the power level that you want.
While on the subject of Vortek, I would recommend their Vac-Seal as it's moly impregnated and will soon seat itself to fit.
:D
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You don't state what year of HW35 you have, so that would be a bit helpful. Send us the serial number and we can date it, unless you know what vintage it is.
Vortek does not necessarily mean an increase in power. Tom at Vortek can cut coils or otherwise get you a kit and customize it to the power level that you want.
While on the subject of Vortek, I would recommend their Vac-Seal as it's moly impregnated and will soon seat itself to fit.
:D
Is a newer one with the synthetic seal. bought it new in 2018
My spring is still good that is why I didn't want to do a Vortek kit, plus is more money. Also i've heard that the power goes up and is harsh to shoot, then later the power goes down, and spring life is not as long as Factory spring. My spring is still good, i've only shot it maybe 1000 ~ 1500 shots.
serial # picture attached.
Thanks
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Well, the power does not go up (necessarily) just because it's a Vortek kit. As I said, you can have Tom at Vortek tune the kit for your preference. AND, I install Vortek PRIMARILY to reduce the harshness.
I understand that if all the other parts are good, no need buy things you don't need. What i do like about Vortek is the sleeve, and everything is plug-n-play, but again, there is $$ involved.
So that being said, I guess the only advice I can give you is on the piston seal - the Vortek Vac-seal.
:D
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thanks I will check into it. No need to resize ? I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?
Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.
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There are people here that do the custom stuff. I'm surprised that they haven't chimed in.
Again, I would talk to Tom at Vortek, but my only expereince with his product is with HW77, 95, 98, and HW30's.
I'll send you a PM.
:D
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thanks I will check into it. No need to resize ? I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?
Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.
Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals
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thanks I will check into it. No need to resize ? I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?
Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.
Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals
what i mean by custom parts, is just parts made to fit on the OEM spring. I just don't need the spring. Don't want to spend $79 or 89 for a kit with guides and spring that don't match up to my OEM spring. Don't know why there is a need for you to put me down. I have been very respectful to all members on this forum don't see why you have to have this tone.
I have other HWs, and I have checked for what you are describing, it doesn't happen with my HW97k, R1, HW50s or HW30s.
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Pablo, read my PM.
We're not here to offend or contest you. We're just providing suggestions and trying to help.
The thing is, by the time you buy a special tophat or guide, how do you know that it will actually fit the OEM spring? Doing it that way, you could be just a few $$ short a fully tuned kit, including the spring.
As I said in my PM to you, I have not yet purchased individual tophat or guides to fit the OEM spring. I just don't see it as cost effective. Especially if things don't fit.
The whole spring individual component thing can get very complicated; O.D. of spring, OAL, coil count, coil diameter. Will this fit that, does that fit this?
That's all way too much brain drain for me, and I need to retain whatever brain matter I still have left after 67 years.
JMHO
:D
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Hi
My 35E is about a year old and I know where you are coming from. Cheapest solution I know of is buy a TBT kit. By the way they offer a sized guide 15.8mm and 15.5mm kit. The newer guns like ours are supposed to use the 15.5 kit. I ordered an Aussie green seal when my FPS recently fell off pretty abruptly and I have about 1000 shots in mine. The Aussie seals take awhile to get to the US right now.
Used a TBt kit with factory spring in my 50S with complete debur and polished tube and trigger. My 15 year old gun was transformed , accurate smooth and holding nicely in at 11.5 FPE. I used a vortek seal with this build.
I am ordering a tbt kit for my HW35E shortly.
Bruce
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Thank You good to know 15.5 is the kit i need. Once i get my tools to take it apart then I will open her up and check the actual ID of my spring to make sure.
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thanks I will check into it. No need to resize ? I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?
Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.
Call Motorhead!
-Y
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thanks I will check into it. No need to resize ? I read some posts that it was a tight fit, maybe the old ones were like that?
Know where I could buy custom made spring guide and top hat for OEM spring on HW35? I think that would be the best solution for me.
Dude, your talking out of both sides of your mouth. One side says a Vortek kit it too expensive and the other side says you want custom parts. If you're experiencing vertical stringing I'd start looking at three things first. First lock up, second your hold consistency and third barrel droop. As much baloney you hear on here about the Vortek kits, they're worth every dime. I'm not saying they're better than the JM kits that are obscenely popular here but many people here are happy with the Vortek kits. Oh yes sometimes the Vortek seals are tight. That's only initially. I used to size them and get more initial energy but after a few days the Vortek seals conform to the bore. I generally pick up 15-40 fps with the Vortek piston seals
what i mean by custom parts, is just parts made to fit on the OEM spring. I just don't need the spring. Don't want to spend $79 or 89 for a kit with guides and spring that don't match up to my OEM spring. Don't know why there is a need for you to put me down. I have been very respectful to all members on this forum don't see why you have to have this tone.
I have other HWs, and I have checked for what you are describing, it doesn't happen with my HW97k, R1, HW50s or HW30s.
I wasn't putting you down. If you took it that way I apologize. What I meant is that it sounds like you're saying too different things. You don't want to spend money on a kit but you want custom parts. Having custom parts made for your spring would best be done with your spring in hand and would require time and money shipping the spring back and forth. IMO the kits are worth every dime and they're not life changing giant money. If a kit ends up costing you an extra 30 bucks over "custom" parts it's well worth it.
The other part of my response is geared towards helping you fix the actual cause of your problem, instead of throwing your money away and wasting your time on the guts of the rifle. I gave you good advice on where else to start looking first. My point If I were putting you down I wouldn't be trying to save you money. I know some people are easily offended and or don't understand New Yorkers and sometimes there's other language issues but I in no way meant to be disrespectful. I meant to give you usable practical advice that was intended to help you solve your problem.
Another well meaning suggestion is that you get a chronograph if you don't have one. I didn't see any velocities listed which would imply you don't have one. Chronographs are key for diagnosising the health of air rifles.
Another thing to note is original equipment Weihrauch springs don't last forever and are prone to breaking. I've had several break in my Hw30 and Hw95. So I don't know how many shots you already have on your 35 or if the Hw35 springs fair better than the ones in the 25&26mm guns but you may be looking at getting a new spring soon anyway.
Whatever you decide to do it's your gun and I apologize if my message offended you. It wasn't my intent. My intention was to say I didn't understand your logic and provide you directions to diagnose the problem at hand. Could it have been done in a more universally understood nicer manner? Sure! but heck I am a NY car mechanic it's just kind of the way we talk here.
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I will be opening up my HW35, I think I might have a bad Piston Seal, sometimes the shots are high sometimes not. I am considering the Custom Air Seals, anybody used them? I want to get something that I don't really have to resize, from their website it says is low friction.
Also, while the rifle is open, i will polish the ends and put some lube. I am also looking to add a Top hat and a tighter fitting spring guide, from what I've seen , the HW35 doesn't come with a top hat and the spring guide could be more tight fitting to minimize vibration.
Now I don't have a Lathe. Is there anyway to make a top hat and spring guide without? Or Where can I buy them for a factory HW35 spring? I am also considering the TbT tuning kit for HW35. I am not interested in increasing power of my rifle, so I am not considering the Vortek kit.
Thank You
Just out of curiosity, what pellets are you shooting and what is the condition of your gun. Old, new, fresh action, broke in action, etc. has your barrel been cleaned recently, how often do you clean your barrel. Before digging too deep into a diagnosing a potential problem, i would look at the simpler possible causes first. Ex, pellets, barrel condition, Barrel pivot tension although that should be less of a cause being the 35 has a positive locking mechanism.
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Pablo, read my PM.
We're not here to offend or contest you. We're just providing suggestions and trying to help.
The thing is, by the time you buy a special tophat or guide, how do you know that it will actually fit the OEM spring? Doing it that way, you could be just a few $$ short a fully tuned kit, including the spring.
As I said in my PM to you, I have not yet purchased individual tophat or guides to fit the OEM spring. I just don't see it as cost effective. Especially if things don't fit.
The whole spring individual component thing can get very complicated; O.D. of spring, OAL, coil count, coil diameter. Will this fit that, does that fit this?
That's all way too much brain drain for me, and I need to retain whatever brain matter I still have left after 67 years.
JMHO
:D
Oh Dennis, just go have a few beers and it'll all start to make sense 😂. Works for me every time!
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Bayman:
What I meant was, if there is any other supplier that produces Spring Guide and Top Hat like TBT that I should be looking at, or if they are the only company that offers these parts for OEM Spring. Never done any tuning by myself so just looking for options now.
I know my spring should be good, obviously I will have to open the gun to verify that, but its only got less than 1500 shots. And you are right, I would not want to send my spring and piston to someone to make parts and then pay shipping again to get it back. Might as well get the Tuning Kit you were referring to.
TJK:
It is a pretty new gun. i've done no more than 1500 shots, pretty sure more than 1000 shots on it. I do have a chrono, and the 7.9gr Crosman Premier Hollow Points are doing about 800fps , When i was testing velocity i was not concentrating on hitting a target, but i did see a few that were 500fps. maybe 1 or 2 in 20 chrono readings.
Now when I was sighting my new scope, I did not shoot it thru a Chrono, it would be dead on target at around 15 yards, then a few shots are low, i have to adjust the elevation on the scope then it shoots too high later and i got to keep adjusting. (point of impact difference is about 2 inches) By the way this is the 3rd scope. First was Bugbuster 3-12x32AO, 2nd was Bushnell Sportman 3-9x32ao, current one is Hawke Vantage 3-12x40ao.
I should also point out this Bugbuster is on my HW50s and it is very accurate. haven't needed to adjust after zeroing it on the rifle.
These same pellets perform well in my HW30s and HW50s.
Out of curiosity, I want to open her up and see what is going on, it really doesn't happen to my other rifles: R1, HW97K, HW30s and HW50s, they all shoot quite accurately and I don't really need to keep clicking on the scope once they have been zeroed at 15 yards.
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1 or 2 shots in twenty with a 200 to 300 fps drop is a serious problem internally. That's providing you trust the chronograph. When you get a big drop in velocity does the gun feel or sound different? Do you smell burning oil or get smoke from the barrel? Try to see if the POI changes when this happens. Did you add any grease or oil to the gun through the transfer port on cocking slot? Sounds like your suspicions of a bad piston seal are probably correct. If you believe the chronograph the gun has to come apart.
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i didn't smell any dieseling. Only oil i've added is to the barrel lock latch. It was not closing smoothly and twice i've put the rifle on the shooting bag and the barrel got open and i fired without knowing it. So that might have caused the problem to my seal. Hence i plan to open up to check, while I have it open, want to do some maintenance besides replacing the seal. So far, i've picked up that the ends of the spring should be polished. and the internals cleaned and then lube applied. Other than that, I've heard of fitted guides added. Might go with TBT spring guide and top hat.
At first i thought maybe the chrono misread the speed, but now that I see the POI go down 2 inches, sometimes, then must be the drop in velocity. I shoot at 15 yards and all my rifles are set to that distance. I can pretty much hit a 1/2 inch target at that distance with all my rifles, and with the HW35, is very inconsistent, when I hit it, i think is because I am getting the full 800fps, when is 2 inches low might be the 300fps drop.
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i didn't smell any dieseling. Only oil i've added is to the barrel lock latch. It was not closing smoothly and twice i've put the rifle on the shooting bag and the barrel got open and i fired without knowing it. So that might have caused the problem to my seal. Hence i plan to open up to check, while I have it open, want to do some maintenance besides replacing the seal. So far, i've picked up that the ends of the spring should be polished. and the internals cleaned and then lube applied. Other than that, I've heard of fitted guides added. Might go with TBT spring guide and top hat.
At first i thought maybe the chrono misread the speed, but now that I see the POI go down 2 inches, sometimes, then must be the drop in velocity. I shoot at 15 yards and all my rifles are set to that distance. I can pretty much hit a 1/2 inch target at that distance with all my rifles, and with the HW35, is very inconsistent, when I hit it, i think is because I am getting the full 800fps, when is 2 inches low might be the 300fps drop.
I Haven’t shot a 35 but I'm assuming you accidentally fired it with the barrel unlocked and it popped open a bit? If that's what happened it would be similar firing without a pellet. When that happens it most often ruptures the seal. It's an unfortunate accident but we've all done stuff like this. I dry fired my 50 and blew up the seal when a loose fitting pellet fell out of the barrel unnoticed. I thought maybe I spazzed and didn't load it but when another pellet fell out it landed on the scope lens and made a noise so I noticed it. It was too late the seal was trashed the first time the pellet fell out unnoticed. As a side note the Vortek seals are significantly stronger than the original ones and may survive a dry fire or a little detonation. Inspect the faulty seal carefully sometimes they have a little circular split that's hard to pick up but it'll go clean through the other side and is enough to cause major problems. Let us know what you find. Good luck.
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JMO, if ur going to have the gun apart, I realize u think the factory spring does not have a bunch of shots on it, but they don't last long, a spring costs about $20 bucks for a good 1, in my experience sometimes no matter what u do to try and keep a factory spring from buzzing it just won't, and it u want to go that route, I would not waist my time on buying a better guide and top hat, I would just use the Ghetto tune method, using plastic from a pop bottle and a Delrin washer infront of the spring at the top of the piston, ur probably going to get the same results as the guide and top hat for the cost of a 50ct washer and a 2 Liter bottle of pop! I have used this method on many rifles until I was ready to spend the money to tune them correctly and it works just as good as the money ur getting ready to waist, Theirs no big trick to doing this Ghetto tune, its easy and costs less then $3 bucks! ;)
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Since you have other air rifles to shoot and this one can be easily out of service for repair/maintenance, I suggest you disassemble and inspect it BEFORE you start buying all sorts of parts/kits you many not need. We can all guess what the problem is for days. I can usually open up a similar rifle and inspect all the critical parts in less time than it took to read this thread and type this response (I am a slow typer ;) ).
Once you have diagnosed the actual problem and taken a few measurements, you can more accurately order just the parts needed to make your rifle shoot well again.
Good luck and best wishes!
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Id almost bet that your random low velocity issue is NOT due to the internals of the rifle. Most likely the pellets.
From what I have found, the Crosmans in the tin have a bunch of pellets that are too small mixed in. These won't seal as well, and will produce low velocity.
Opening the gun up and not changing anything but the piston seal probably won't fix your issue. But, it would be a good time to "get the buzz out".
My advice, get some different pellets to try and see what happens. And if you don't want to size a piston seal, I find that the OEM seals work very well, and last a really long time when lubed correctly.
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Since you have other air rifles to shoot and this one can be easily out of service for repair/maintenance, I suggest you disassemble and inspect it BEFORE you start buying all sorts of parts/kits you many not need. We can all guess what the problem is for days. I can usually open up a similar rifle and inspect all the critical parts in less time than it took to read this thread and type this response (I am a slow typer ;) ).
Once you have diagnosed the actual problem and taken a few measurements, you can more accurately order just the parts needed to make your rifle shoot well again.
Good luck and best wishes!
This is excellent advice. You don't know what you need until you open a rifle.
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Id almost bet that your random low velocity issue is NOT due to the internals of the rifle. Most likely the pellets.
From what I have found, the Crosmans in the tin have a bunch of pellets that are too small mixed in. These won't seal as well, and will produce low velocity.
Opening the gun up and not changing anything but the piston seal probably won't fix your issue. But, it would be a good time to "get the buzz out".
My advice, get some different pellets to try and see what happens. And if you don't want to size a piston seal, I find that the OEM seals work very well, and last a really long time when lubed correctly.
Chase, I'll take that bet. As little as I think of Crosman pellets the widest Extreme Spread I've ever chrono'd with them was in the 50 fps range. 200-300 is huge. The offending pellet would fit so loose the relationship between the fit and drastic velocity drop should have been noticed by the shooter. I haven't bought a box of CPLs or a tin of CPHPs since summer of 19. If Crosman pellets are that bad now they're even worse than they were then, which was pretty bad at times. I say at times because they can shoot great to cr@p from any given package.
I will agree that he should try different pellets first to see if this is the case. But honestly mikeyb is right a quick tear down might be quicker if he doesn't have other pellets readily available.
The Vortek piston seals don't need to be sized to be better than the OEM. I've used bunches of both
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I would agree with the pellets being the issue, very few HW .22cal barrels will shoot Crosman pellets unless u have consistent head sizes that the barrel likes! but some HW .22cal barrels will Crosman Pointed Hunting pellets or the Ultra Mags they seem to be a bit more consistent then the HP's, but not perfect, do to head sizes! I would try the H&N FTT's 5.53mm or the AA Fields 16gn my .22cal 35 loved them! ;D
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JMO, if ur going to have the gun apart, I realize u think the factory spring does not have a bunch of shots on it, but they don't last long, a spring costs about $20 bucks for a good 1, in my experience sometimes no matter what u do to try and keep a factory spring from buzzing it just won't, and it u want to go that route, I would not waist my time on buying a better guide and top hat, I would just use the Ghetto tune method, using plastic from a pop bottle and a Delrin washer infront of the spring at the top of the piston, ur probably going to get the same results as the guide and top hat for the cost of a 50ct washer and a 2 Liter bottle of pop! I have used this method on many rifles until I was ready to spend the money to tune them correctly and it works just as good as the money ur getting ready to waist, Theirs no big trick to doing this Ghetto tune, its easy and costs less then $3 bucks! ;)
Where can I source this Delrin washer you talk about? Thanks.
I've heard of platic bottle or a sheet of a soda can to wrap around the spring. I'll have to look into that.
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I would agree with the pellets being the issue, very few HW .22cal barrels will shoot Crosman pellets unless u have consistent head sizes that the barrel likes! but some HW .22cal barrels will Crosman Pointed Hunting pellets or the Ultra Mags they seem to be a bit more consistent then the HP's, but not perfect, do to head sizes! I would try the H&N FTT's 5.53mm or the AA Fields 16gn my .22cal 35 loved them! ;D
Mark his rifle is 177.
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Then 8.64 4.52 head. I've found the FTT to be the most consistent in size that I've measured. If you do the seal anyway, I like the vortek moly seals, they are tight, but they'll size to the bore. As far as the stuff you read about the Vortek kits, I'd check the date on what you read, I read the same things and it tended to be from several years ago. Hard to say though since someone says something and it gets repeated over and over on the internet and next thing you know it's being held out there as the truth instead of opinion. The kits have been changed (improved) several times in just the last couple years. Tom is constantly experimenting and trying to improve them. I'm not trying to convince you to get one, I just remember the bad reviews I read that, when I found the original review, was from 10 years ago and written by a competitor. Just one of those things that bugs me about the internet.
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Then 8.64 4.52 head. I've found the FTT to be the most consistent in size that I've measured. If you do the seal anyway, I like the vortek moly seals, they are tight, but they'll size to the bore. As far as the stuff you read about the Vortek kits, I'd check the date on what you read, I read the same things and it tended to be from several years ago. Hard to say though since someone says something and it gets repeated over and over on the internet and next thing you know it's being held out there as the truth instead of opinion. The kits have been changed (improved) several times in just the last couple years. Tom is constantly experimenting and trying to improve them. I'm not trying to convince you to get one, I just remember the bad reviews I read that, when I found the original review, was from 10 years ago and written by a competitor. Just one of those things that bugs me about the internet.
THANK YOU! Truer words never spoken.
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You're welcome
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So if a seal "sizes to the bore" what keeps it from just keeping on wearing out or sizing itself too small?
And why do the seals that I fit to the tube stay the same for years and years?
How long do you have to deal with the temp sensitivity POI shift from an overly tight seal before it "sizes itself"? Is it a time thing, or a shot count thing?
Is a Vortek seal oversized enough to fit well in badly oversized tubes, but have enough "self sizing" built in to fit the tightest of tubes as well?
Does it simply compress to size, or actually get worn down?
Maccari and Vortek both use urethane for their seals, and of very similar durometer. Why does Maccari recommend they need sizing, when Vorteks size themselves?
Curious minds...
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Id almost bet that your random low velocity issue is NOT due to the internals of the rifle. Most likely the pellets.
From what I have found, the Crosmans in the tin have a bunch of pellets that are too small mixed in. These won't seal as well, and will produce low velocity.
Opening the gun up and not changing anything but the piston seal probably won't fix your issue. But, it would be a good time to "get the buzz out".
My advice, get some different pellets to try and see what happens. And if you don't want to size a piston seal, I find that the OEM seals work very well, and last a really long time when lubed correctly.
Chase, I'll take that bet. As little as I think of Crosman pellets the widest Extreme Spread I've ever chrono'd with them was in the 50 fps range. 200-300 is huge. The offending pellet would fit so loose the relationship between the fit and drastic velocity drop should have been noticed by the shooter. I haven't bought a box of CPLs or a tin of CPHPs since summer of 19. If Crosman pellets are that bad now they're even worse than they were then, which was pretty bad at times. I say at times because they can shoot great to cr@p from any given package.
I will agree that he should try different pellets first to see if this is the case. But honestly mikeyb is right a quick tear down might be quicker if he doesn't have other pellets readily available.
The Vortek piston seals don't need to be sized to be better than the OEM. I've used bunches of both
I've had a ton of the boxed CPLs, and found all of them to be very consistent in head size. They shoot very well in literally every .177 I have owned.
Ed Canoles has bought more boxed CPLs than anyone I have ever known, and he seemed to have pretty well documented results with them. They can't be that bad.
The ones in the tin, yeah they aren't worth the time. Never had any that were good.
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Id almost bet that your random low velocity issue is NOT due to the internals of the rifle. Most likely the pellets.
From what I have found, the Crosmans in the tin have a bunch of pellets that are too small mixed in. These won't seal as well, and will produce low velocity.
Opening the gun up and not changing anything but the piston seal probably won't fix your issue. But, it would be a good time to "get the buzz out".
My advice, get some different pellets to try and see what happens. And if you don't want to size a piston seal, I find that the OEM seals work very well, and last a really long time when lubed correctly.
Chase, I'll take that bet. As little as I think of Crosman pellets the widest Extreme Spread I've ever chrono'd with them was in the 50 fps range. 200-300 is huge. The offending pellet would fit so loose the relationship between the fit and drastic velocity drop should have been noticed by the shooter. I haven't bought a box of CPLs or a tin of CPHPs since summer of 19. If Crosman pellets are that bad now they're even worse than they were then, which was pretty bad at times. I say at times because they can shoot great to cr@p from any given package.
I will agree that he should try different pellets first to see if this is the case. But honestly mikeyb is right a quick tear down might be quicker if he doesn't have other pellets readily available.
The Vortek piston seals don't need to be sized to be better than the OEM. I've used bunches of both
I've had a ton of the boxed CPLs, and found all of them to be very consistent in head size. They shoot very well in literally every .177 I have owned.
Ed Canoles has bought more boxed CPLs than anyone I have ever known, and he seemed to have pretty well documented results with them. They can't be that bad.
The ones in the tin, yeah they aren't worth the time. Never had any that were good.
You just like to argue with me. I never said the boxed ones were inconsistent in size. They do vary some from box to box, but what's the point of buying boxes when you don't know which die lot you are buying. I don't use the boxed ones for several reasons. It's not worth trying to change your (or Ed's) mind about them, it's not my lot in life.
We were talking about inconsistencies that would produce 200-300fps extreme spreads. I have chronographed tons of pellets and tons of Crosman pellets. Even doing them though dual chronograph testing at 30 yards distance to calculate true ballistic coefficients for several pellets through two of my guns. I was pointing out that while my opinion of Crosman pellets is low I've never seen 200 to 300 fps extreme spreads from them. I have had 50 something fps extreme spreads with tinned Crosmans. Boxed CPLs regularly double the normal extreme spreads of my rifles. Usually they're just either side of 10fps. Not that extreme spreads are the be all indicator for accuracy but it is a good indicator of physical and dimensional consistency between pellets. I have had some excellent accuracy from the boxed CPLs even with the doubled extreme spreads.
Ed has done some great shooting with the CPLs. He also sorts through all of them and separates them by head size and has even resized them at times. I'm sure you already seen the photos of his stacks of separated boxes of CPLs. Ed's a great guy who I've learned a ton from but I don't have the interests or time to sort, separate and resize thousands of pellets. I'm just happy with the consistency and accuracy of regular JSBs. Even if JSBs were slightly less accurate than Crosmans I still wouldn't use Crosmans for several reasons that I won't bother to list because it would fall on deaf ears.
At least we both agree the tinned Crosmans "aren't worth the time". Some people like vanilla some like chocolate but I'll never argue with someone for liking chocolate because I like vanilla. You and Ed can like your Crosman pellets and I can like my JSB. No big deal. Picking arguments with someone because you don't like them or their opinions is counterproductive and draining. When I post stuff here it's attempt to benefit the OP and community. I NEVER post anything I haven't proven or experienced first hand. I'm an open minded individual and I will listen to what people say but if I hear some that's proven not right I'll suggest a different approach. Granted I boned it earlier in the thread and accidentally offended the OP and I apologized and hope he forgives me. But there's never been any malice in my heart towards anyone here. If I sound like a pompous know it all jerk. I apologize. Some of it may come from my confidence in my information, some of it from my efforts to debunk some of longstanding prejudices and myths here, but most of it comes from trying desperately to help people. It just might not come off like that. Especially when what I say isn't popular here. Just because something is popular doesn't make it true or correct. At times trying to present new ideas and information here is like tilting windmills. Again never any malice in my heart. I'm trying to help others with what I know and learn from those who can teach me through their ACTUAL experience. I only wish people didn't jump down my throat everytime I presented an idea that was unpopular here. There's a lot to be learned here by all of us. Having a closed mind and emphatically putting other people's preferences down everytime they present valid tested information does no one any good.
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Id almost bet that your random low velocity issue is NOT due to the internals of the rifle. Most likely the pellets.
From what I have found, the Crosmans in the tin have a bunch of pellets that are too small mixed in. These won't seal as well, and will produce low velocity.
Opening the gun up and not changing anything but the piston seal probably won't fix your issue. But, it would be a good time to "get the buzz out".
My advice, get some different pellets to try and see what happens. And if you don't want to size a piston seal, I find that the OEM seals work very well, and last a really long time when lubed correctly.
Chase, I'll take that bet. As little as I think of Crosman pellets the widest Extreme Spread I've ever chrono'd with them was in the 50 fps range. 200-300 is huge. The offending pellet would fit so loose the relationship between the fit and drastic velocity drop should have been noticed by the shooter. I haven't bought a box of CPLs or a tin of CPHPs since summer of 19. If Crosman pellets are that bad now they're even worse than they were then, which was pretty bad at times. I say at times because they can shoot great to cr@p from any given package.
I will agree that he should try different pellets first to see if this is the case. But honestly mikeyb is right a quick tear down might be quicker if he doesn't have other pellets readily available.
The Vortek piston seals don't need to be sized to be better than the OEM. I've used bunches of both
I've had a ton of the boxed CPLs, and found all of them to be very consistent in head size. They shoot very well in literally every .177 I have owned.
Ed Canoles has bought more boxed CPLs than anyone I have ever known, and he seemed to have pretty well documented results with them. They can't be that bad.
The ones in the tin, yeah they aren't worth the time. Never had any that were good.
You just like to argue with me. I never said the boxed ones were inconsistent in size. They do vary some from box to box, but what's the point of buying boxes when you don't know which die lot you are buying. I don't use the boxed ones for several reasons. It's not worth trying to change your (or Ed's) mind about them, it's not my lot in life.
We were talking about inconsistencies that would produce 200-300fps extreme spreads. I have chronographed tons of pellets and tons of Crosman pellets. Even doing them though dual chronograph testing at 30 yards distance to calculate true ballistic coefficients for several pellets through two of my guns. I was pointing out that while my opinion of Crosman pellets is low I've never seen 200 to 300 fps extreme spreads from them. I have had 50 something fps extreme spreads with tinned Crosmans. Boxed CPLs regularly double the normal extreme spreads of my rifles. Usually they're just either side of 10fps. Not that extreme spreads are the be all indicator for accuracy but it is a good indicator of physical and dimensional consistency between pellets. I have had some excellent accuracy from the boxed CPLs even with the doubled extreme spreads.
Ed has done some great shooting with the CPLs. He also sorts through all of them and separates them by head size and has even resized them at times. I'm sure you already seen the photos of his stacks of separated boxes of CPLs. Ed's a great guy who I've learned a ton from but I don't have the interests or time to sort, separate and resize thousands of pellets. I'm just happy with the consistency and accuracy of regular JSBs. Even if JSBs were slightly less accurate than Crosmans I still wouldn't use Crosmans for several reasons that I won't bother to list because it would fall on deaf ears.
At least we both agree the tinned Crosmans "aren't worth the time". Some people like vanilla some like chocolate but I'll never argue with someone for liking chocolate because I like vanilla. You and Ed can like your Crosman pellets and I can like my JSB. No big deal. Picking arguments with someone because you don't like them or their opinions is counterproductive and draining. When I post stuff here it's attempt to benefit the OP and community. I NEVER post anything I haven't proven or experienced first hand. I'm an open minded individual and I will listen to what people say but if I hear some that's proven not right I'll suggest a different approach. Granted I boned it earlier in the thread and accidentally offended the OP and I apologized and hope he forgives me. But there's never been any malice in my heart towards anyone here. If I sound like a pompous know it all jerk I apologize. Some of it comes from my confidence in my information, some of it from my efforts to debunk some of longstanding prejudices and myths here, but most of it comes from trying to help people. It just might not come off like that. Especially when what I say isn't popular here. Just because something is popular doesn't make it fact. At times trying to present new ideas and information here is like tilting windmills. Again never any malice in my heart. I'm trying to help others with what I know and learn from those who can teach me through their ACTUAL experience. I only wish people didn't jump down my throat everytime I presented an idea that was unpopular here. There's a lot to be learned here by all of us. Having a closed mind and emphatically putting other people's preferences down does no good for anyone.
I'm not trying to argue at all, I may have slightly misinterpreted the post. My mistake.
Most of my guns that shoot the CPLs well will also shoot the JSBs well. Problem is, most of my guns are older 80s era and for whatever reason have looser entry leads for lack of a better term, lol. But you know what I mean. In these guns the CPLs fit better and tighten up my shot-to-shot spreads and make a fuzz better power.
Hey I get it. I post some things too that I have found to be true for me, that are unpopular. There's a lot of age old hoopla floating around in airgun land that's been regurgitated to the point of gospel that's just not the case. I'm with you, it may just not seem like it at times. I'm sorry for that.
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I usually have good luck from HW .177cal barrels with the Crosman HP's out of the tin, if the pellets fit like they should? then the stringing issue is usually by seals, unless u have a broken spring or a bad scope? also make sure ur barrel block bolt has the right amount of tension on it, if its lose it will cause accuracy issues 8)
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I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones, when I first got back into airguns I could buy the Crosman boxed pellets locally. (even .20)
I read how good they were and have tried them in every gun I have ever bought.
They just never shot great out of any gun I owned, and I really wanted them to.
Reading in another thread on GTA, I see where the 7.9's are discontinued, shame, because so many liked them.
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I've used the tinned CPHP, and they shot pretty good, but I get better accuracy with H&N, RWS, or AA. I did notice that the CPHP, some were very tight in the lead e, some very loose, and everything in between. Never tried the boxed ones, but I'm getting 12 shot groups under 1/2" at 20 yards with 3 different H&N pellets so I don't feel the need to change.
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I usually have good luck from HW .177cal barrels with the Crosman HP's out of the tin, if the pellets fit like they should? then the stringing issue is usually by seals, unless u have a broken spring or a bad scope? also make sure ur barrel block bolt has the right amount of tension on it, if its lose it will cause accuracy issues 8)
I suspect a broken seal too, the CPHP shoot well in my HW30s and HW50s. I just put a new scope. I'll have to open her up when i get some free time.
as for the Piston Sleeve, I found some drink cans made out of steel, i heard Steel lasts longer than the PTFE sheet or the plastic bottles, so I will be using that. Just need to find an article with pictures showing me how to make one. I am also thinking to put a steel washer on the other end of the spring, so that the spring can rotate freely. Is that a good idea?
Thank You
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Theirs plenty of videos on UTUBE to show how to make a sleeve for the piston, I personally would use plastic for the sleeve, a thin metal washer is ok on the top of the spring, metal can cause vibration or twang and wear, u may not want, plastic is more forgiving and will dampen vibration JMO ;)
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To add to Marks “ghetto” tune, you can also place electrical shrink tubing on the rear guide too. Just clean the guide thoroughly before installing and shrinking the tubing. Give the shrink wrapped spring guide a light coat of clear tar and carefully instal the spring. May require a twisting motion but go slow so the spring end doesn’t tear into the shrink wrap. I wouldnt consider this a long term solution, but it will get you by (anti spring buzz) until you decide to invest in a properly fitted kit. Hths.