GTA
Airguns by Make and Model => Weihrauch Airguns => Topic started by: airrob on December 22, 2020, 01:22:47 PM
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Hi everyone. Newbie questions to follow. This will be my first air gun.
After some research, I believe I've settled on the Beeman R9 in .20, with a scope. Or perhaps the Elite Combo package if you feel the scope is decent. I expect some people may talk me out of it, so let me list my reasons & fire away! I'm open to other suggestions as well.
I'm a long time 'normal' gun shooter and due to insane prices these days, I'm looking into buying an air gun for some backyard fun. This may very well extend into informal tournaments depending on my continued interest.
I like the idea of a self-contained gun without any tanks or co2 canisters. I love the idea of a spring-piston.
I admire quality.
I want it powerful enough for most things, without being too back breaking.
I like "powder" guns that hit a sweet spot. For bolt-actions, that would be the .270, 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor and the like. I have no need for Magnum level.
I'm 52. My eyesight and dexterity aren't what they used to be. I do not want a .177. That leaves .20 or .22.
I want it flat shooting enough for target practice, yet still strong enough for mild critter control.
I've read that the Beeman R9 (or any springer for that matter) has a constant spring action regardless of what you are pushing through it, so based on my limited physics knowledge, there is undoubtably a sweet spot. I also hear it was made for .177 so a .20 is already a stretch, and .22 even more. It doesn't like a light .177 nor a heavy .22. This post really resonated with me:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=16316.msg139743#msg139743 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=16316.msg139743#msg139743)
So for that reason, it appears the Goldilocks gun is an R9/HW95 in .20. The only downside is, as I'm sure everyone is yelling at their screen right now, is that .20 is a dying breed with limited ammo options. I'm aware of that, which is why I posted this wanting you to shoot holes in my logic! In my case though, as long as a single good pellet option exists, I don't care too much about that limitation.
What say you?
What other guns could I look at?
-Robert
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Only you can decide what is right for you !! But my humble opinion is that 20 cal was a pure marketing ploy !! as me how I know ?? I have tried many and now have none with the exception of some old dans which I love. For just target work 177 is great but for everything else 22 is the bomb.
I have been shooting all my life and no one gun does it all well !!
kindly
ron
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Get the HW 95-perfect choice BTW-in .22.
pellets are available everywhere.
I have no comment on the scope, but good glass is nice!
What ranges will you be shooting at?
Learning your scope reticle with hold over points is part of the charm of springers, IMHO. :D
-Y
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What are the recommended .22 pellets for this gun?
It could be up to 37 yards.
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My John in PA tuned Beeman R9 is .177 caliber and is spot on and perhaps too much for my backyard shooting at 30 yards. BTW, I'm 78 and it's much easier to carry and shoot my HW3OS' and my Beeman R7.
You might want to consider an HW50S IN .177 caliber?
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I would think a PCP be a better choice for carrying over your powder burning experience? Springers are a bit of a different deal with the artillery hold and back/forth movement. So keeping sharp and on target might not be as transferable with a springer.
Downside of .20 cal is the more limited ammo options. .177 or .22 will have the most options and .177 is definitely the cheapest way to shoot.
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Hey Robert,
Bob (Rsterne) is always a good read ... you're not going to find better advice anywhere regarding airguns.
I have an HW95 in .177 and an R9 in .20 caliber. I found my HW95 is very accurate with CPL out to 80 yards, shooting at roughly 13+ FPE.
I just got my R9 this Summer and get about 16 FPE with JSB 13.72 pellets. I'm not sure how they compare at 80 yards yet but will find out next Summer after Covid-19. In my 10 yard crawl space, both guns equally accurate. Bob's presentation would suggest that .20 should be fine in the R9.
About 3 years ago I switched out my .22 cal. barrel on my HW80 to .20 caliber. It was an amazing transformation for the gun while shooting the JSB 13.72 pellet. It's easily became my most accurate Spring gun at 50 yards or better and got me more interested in .20 caliber. It's increased power and comparable trajectory to .177 caliber are hard to deny.
So ... I'm not sure what to say, except they're both great, but I'd likely recommend the .177 for the R9 and .20 for the HW80 (R1). If you choose the .20 caliber, don't be deterred by the limited manufacturers making the pellet as there are actually many great choices (I'd start with the JSB 13.72).
Good Luck ;)
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I appreciate all the advice.
It's funny....I see the HW50S and HW30S both offered in .22 as well. Both are slower than the HW95. Yet in other threads on this forum, some people suggest if you want a .22 that even the HW95/R9 isn't sufficient enough and you should bump up to the HW80/R1! The caveats and recommendations are all over the map.
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What are the recommended .22 pellets for this gun?
It could be up to 37 yards.
Its hard to say which pellets will shoot good in your rifle as each rifle is different. What may shoot great in my rifle may not shoot great in yours as barrels have very different harmonics and what not even if in the same model and cal. Its a advanture if you will getting to know your personal rifle
kindly
ron
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I appreciate all the advice.
It's funny....I see the HW50S and HW30S both offered in .22 as well. Both are slower than the HW95. Yet in other threads on this forum, some people suggest if you want a .22 that even the HW95/R9 isn't sufficient enough and you should bump up to the HW80/R1! The caveats and recommendations are all over the map.
LOL yes this is very true !! When I was much younger I was always looking the most power... That was a huge mistake as if you need lots of power shoot a rimfire. Nothing wrong with power but with a springer there is a thing called shot cycle which can become harsh as you move up the power scale.
After almost 55 years of shooting airguns I can say that a HW 30 in 22 cal is a dream to shoot ! At longer ranges it can be a challenge but that is a fun kind of thing as one learns to hold over at various ranges.
I have a R-1 in 22 cal with a lazaglide tune which is a tack driver at 50-60 yards but I shoot it seldom as its just to much in my backyard, while the HW 30 is perfect at backyard ranges ! Its about perspective and ones learning curve. Sometimes less really is more.
Kindly
ron
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One more thing !! springers are NOT Pcps !! Just saying
kindly
ron
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Getting even more indecision now. I guess the HW95/R9 can easily handle the range I'm shooting at in .22, but now I'm wondering if that's too much horsepower. Maybe I should consider the HW50S in .22 instead? That way my daughter could shoot it too. The .177 is still off the list, period. Too small for mitts. I'm 6'4".
Here is what I've found. Decisions....
HW30S 425fps 5.5lbs 18lb cocking
HW50S 574fps 6.8lbs 24lb cocking
HW95 740fps 7.3lbs 40lb cocking
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Yeah,
- Inside 30 yards the HW30 is hard to beat, but after that forget it...
- The problem with the HW80 is manageability ... it's not something you will want to shoot as often as the HW30, HW35 of HW50.
The HW95/R9 is very nice balance between power/manageability .... not too little, but not a brute either.
I'm almost 62 and understand your annoyance at picking up .177 pellets. However, because I only Target Shoot, accuracy is all I care about -> I prefer to view picking up smaller pellets as good physical therapy :D.
Also, that stat. for cocking is too high - my Son could easily cock a HW95 when he was 11?
It's pretty ridiculous to worry about cocking as a meaningful criteria this decision...
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Getting even more indecision now. I guess the HW95/R9 can easily handle the range I'm shooting at in .22, but now I'm wondering if that's too much horsepower. Maybe I should consider the HW50S in .22 instead? That way my daughter could shoot it too. The .177 is still off the list, period. Too small for mitts. I'm 6'4".
Here is what I've found. Decisions....
HW30S 425fps 5.5lbs 18lb cocking
HW50S 574fps 6.8lbs 24lb cocking
HW95 740fps 7.3lbs 40lb cocking
I feel ya... as I am 6'2 with meaty hands. I still have 177 cal target guns but I just enjoy smacking tin cans with a 22 slug... old fart thing I guess !!
kindly
ron
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Hi everyone. Newbie questions to follow. This will be my first air gun.
After some research, I believe I've settled on the Beeman R9 in .20, with a scope. Or perhaps the Elite Combo package if you feel the scope is decent. I expect some people may talk me out of it, so let me list my reasons & fire away! I'm open to other suggestions as well.
I'm a long time 'normal' gun shooter and due to insane prices these days, I'm looking into buying an air gun for some backyard fun. This may very well extend into informal tournaments depending on my continued interest.
I like the idea of a self-contained gun without any tanks or co2 canisters. I love the idea of a spring-piston.
I admire quality.
I want it powerful enough for most things, without being too back breaking.
I like "powder" guns that hit a sweet spot. For bolt-actions, that would be the .270, 6.5x55, 6.5 Creedmoor and the like. I have no need for Magnum level.
I'm 52. My eyesight and dexterity aren't what they used to be. I do not want a .177. That leaves .20 or .22.
I want it flat shooting enough for target practice, yet still strong enough for mild critter control.
I've read that the Beeman R9 (or any springer for that matter) has a constant spring action regardless of what you are pushing through it, so based on my limited physics knowledge, there is undoubtably a sweet spot. I also hear it was made for .177 so a .20 is already a stretch, and .22 even more. It doesn't like a light .177 nor a heavy .22. This post really resonated with me:
https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=16316.msg139743#msg139743 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=16316.msg139743#msg139743)
So for that reason, it appears the Goldilocks gun is an R9/HW95 in .20. The only downside is, as I'm sure everyone is yelling at their screen right now, is that .20 is a dying breed with limited ammo options. I'm aware of that, which is why I posted this wanting you to shoot holes in my logic! In my case though, as long as a single good pellet option exists, I don't care too much about that limitation.
What say you?
What other guns could I look at?
-Robert
"I love the idea of a spring-piston." and "I admire quality."
My .177 Beeman R9 and .177 HW95.........
(https://i.imgur.com/eHEAp7o.jpg)
"I want it powerful enough for most things, without being too back breaking. + I have no need for Magnum level."
My personal opinion is that you can't do better than a .177 HW95 with an accurate dome pellet at any distance you can reliably hit a quarter under field conditions for "brain shots"..........
(https://i.imgur.com/8SZm6IE.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/v6Ug0yH.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/6jbM8Jw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/jOqzhB7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/5m3aq42.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/KwinU67.jpg)
"I do not want a .177. That leaves .20 or .22."
LOL....I'm 73 years old and have a different opinion after owning & shooting .177, .20 @ .22 cal (chopped and choked Beeman R1 barrel) R9s and a HW95. I found the most useful caliber for my HW95 power level gun if shot at distances greater than my 30 yard zero distance to be the .177 cal. LOL....out to 30 yards it really didn't matter which caliber I shot IF it was accurate! The loopy trajectory of my .20 & .22 cal pellets was enough of a disappointment that I sold both the .20 and .22 barrels and reverted back to .177 never to look back.
"I want it flat shooting enough for target practice, yet still strong enough for mild critter control."
I found that to be only .177 cal for my HW95/Beeman R9! Here is a target I shot from 10 yards tp 50 yards with my .177 R9 when testing out the trajectory using my normal 30 yard zero............
(https://i.imgur.com/a7azSng.jpg)
Notice that with .177 cal I had a "near zero" of about 17 yards and a "far zero" at 30 yards. Also notice that even in .177 cal the pellet dropped about 1 1/2" low at 50 yards. LOL, with a .22 pellet and a 30 yard zero the high point of the trajectory would have more than the 1/4" rise of the .177 pellet and the .22 cal drop would have been considerably more than the .177 cal 1 1/2" drop!
"What other guns could I look at?"
LOL....I don't know because the HW95 is the perfect balance of power, accuracy, modular construction (don't have to disassemble the trigger to remove a HW95 trigger block) and availability of high quality aftermarket parts. Here is a pic showing the simplicity of the last HW95 I bought............
(https://i.imgur.com/6DIvbJy.jpg)
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I wish the .20 was more universally admired.
Now I'm contemplating buying a HW30S or R7 just to see "how it is" and if it meets my needs. If not, I could give it to my daughter. If I start with the R9, there is no option of that. I see both are available in .20 (yes, I'm being stubborn).
Is there a significant difference between the HW30S or R7? Should I just get the R7 to keep it in the 'murica tradition? ;)
Edit: I see this puppy is available. I would buy it for the nicer stock unless the R7 was inherently better.
h**ps://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw30s-deluxe-air-rifle/
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I'm gonna throw another rifle in the game!!! the HW50 in .22cal or .20cal, nothing wrong with the suggestions or what u were wanting to begin with, I have 5 .20cal HW rifles, that said I think the .20cal is the best of both worlds, yes pellets are more expensive and their are fewer choices, but with an HW .20cal rifle u only need 1 of 2 pellets the H&N FTT's 11.42gn or the JSB 13,73gn these pellets are very accurate from these rifles! my2ct ;)
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Being the overanxious OCD person that I am, I just pre-ordered an R7 in .20 from PA...along with a few extras. It'll ship in January.
If I find it isn't enough for my needs, I can upgrade. I've been blessed that I can make these impulsive decisions now, compared to 20 year$ ago. If I end up thinking the R7 is extremely wimpy, I may sell it. We'll see.
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Being the overanxious OCD person that I am, I just pre-ordered an R7 in .20 from PA...along with a few extras. It'll ship in January.
If I find it isn't enough for my needs, I can upgrade. I've been blessed that I can make these impulsive decisions now, compared to 20 year$ ago. If I end up thinking the R7 is extremely wimpy, I may sell it. We'll see.
"If I end up thinking the R7 is extremely wimpy"
If you like the R7 platform but the .20 cal doesn't "trip your trigger" you can buy a .177 barrel for about $80 (estimated in stock date 12-28-20).
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never going with a .177, but thanks.
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Hey Robert,
Bob (Rsterne) is always a good read ... you're not going to find better advice anywhere regarding airguns.
I have an HW95 in .177 and an R9 in .20 caliber. I found my HW95 is very accurate with CPL out to 80 yards, shooting at roughly 13+ FPE.
I just got my R9 this Summer and get about 16 FPE with JSB 13.72 pellets. I'm not sure how they compare at 80 yards yet but will find out next Summer after Covid-19. In my 10 yard crawl space, both guns equally accurate. Bob's presentation would suggest that .20 should be fine in the R9.
About 3 years ago I switched out my .22 cal. barrel on my HW80 to .20 caliber. It was an amazing transformation for the gun while shooting the JSB 13.72 pellet. It's easily became my most accurate Spring gun at 50 yards or better and got me more interested in .20 caliber. It's increased power and comparable trajectory to .177 caliber are hard to deny.
So ... I'm not sure what to say, except they're both great, but I'd likely recommend the .177 for the R9 and .20 for the HW80 (R1). If you choose the .20 caliber, don't be deterred by the limited manufacturers making the pellet as there are actually many great choices (I'd start with the JSB 13.72).
Good Luck ;)
Is that the one you call"the God Pellet"? Do you think it would be equally effective in a HW 50 .20?
-Yogi
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I will be 82 soon. The HW95L in .22, IMO, meets your requirements and I really enjoy shooting mine. Excellent for taking out the problem squirrel or bunny when necessary. The quality of the Weihrauch rifles is outstanding. I put a Hawke 4x16 44 mm compact IR, SF scope on mine and both my wife's and my groups are improving. I believe that you would like this combo also and .22 pellets seem to be readable available.
I forgot to add that the H&N FTT 14.66 gr .22 pellets seem to give the best groups for us.
(https://i.imgur.com/9jcN0sWh.jpg)
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Yogi, the 11.42 FTT is the pellet for the .20-HW 50, w/o negating the advantage the .20 has ...11.42 gives a decent velocity, cycle & trajectory...13.73 is too heavy in the 50s platform, if going that heavy shoot a light .22, the gain of a .20 in the 50 is downrange energy w/ a far better cycle & less tax from a heavy .177.
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Also 6’4”, don’t see the big deal with .177 cal pellets. Have R9’s and 50’s in both .177 and .22 cals. Figured if I got one of each, I’d be able to decide which one I liked the most and sell the others. Problem is that I like them all!
John in PA started and ended with FTT’s in my R9. Seems like they pretty much universally like that pellet. And mine does 720 FPS with them. My 50 does 620 FPS.
The main advantages I see with .22 cal over .20 cal are that ammo is cheaper and more widely available, and you also have a couple good lead-free options if you ever want to boost velocity to .177 levels. My R9 does 840 with 11.75 grain GTO’s, and the 50 does 825 with 9.56 grain FTT greens.
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never going with a .177, but thanks.
LOL....then that DOES limit your choices! ::)
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Being the overanxious OCD person that I am, I just pre-ordered an R7 in .20 from PA...along with a few extras. It'll ship in January.
I cancelled it already. So much for being decisive. I found an article about how wimpy it is.
h**ps://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtaker7.html
I think an R9 is still in my future, but since everyone is out of stock, I can keep reading for a bit more.
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AOA has a HW95 Luxus in .20 cal if thats what you're after still. The luxus just means the stock is a bit longer in the forearm and covers the breech block where as the standard hw95 does not. The R9 Beeman comes with the longer stock and the gaudy gold trigger.
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw95-luxus-.20/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/spring-piston/weihrauch-hw95-luxus-.20/)
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Being the overanxious OCD person that I am, I just pre-ordered an R7 in .20 from PA...along with a few extras. It'll ship in January.
I cancelled it already. So much for being decisive. I found an article about how wimpy it is.
h**ps://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtaker7.html
I think an R9 is still in my future, but since everyone is out of stock, I can keep reading for a bit more.
Krale still has them!
https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw95/ (https://www.krale.shop/us/weihrauch-hw95/)
-Y
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"Never the .177" was kinda the way I felt before I got the HW95 .177 unaltered and brand new. It is the deadliest open sighted rifle I have--and I like having an open sighted rifle for shorter ranges up to 30 yards in the backyard.
I just run Air Arms Diablo Express or regular AA domes down the barrel.
In "regular power" mode the .20 is perfect for the HW95/HW98/R9--"regular" power for me. The HW80s are a slice too big I think with most of the sales and popularity going to the HW95/R9.
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Yogi, the 11.42 FTT is the pellet for the .20-HW 50, w/o negating the advantage the .20 has ...11.42 gives a decent velocity, cycle & trajectory...13.73 is too heavy in the 50s platform, if going that heavy shoot a light .22, the gain of a .20 in the 50 is downrange energy w/ a far better cycle & less tax from a heavy .177.
+1,
I'd try the 13.72's, but likely to heavy.
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never going with a .177, but thanks.
LOL....then that DOES limit your choices! ::)
;) :D ;D
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If the problem with .177 is manipulating the pellets, just get a pellet pen, that's what I use. But as far as the 20 being a dying caliber, they said the same about the 16 gauge, and that still hasn't gone away. I chose .177 due to the variety of pellets available. I've used .177, 20, and 22 on squirrel, and the 20 is great, worked equally well with both body and head shots. In my opinion it was the best of the 3. The HW95 is a great gun, I bought the Field pro with 3-9x40 weihrauch branded scope. The glass is good, holds zero just fine, but the parallax and focus gets very finicky when you crank the magnification, so I eventually replaced it with a Leupold. And BTW I don't think the 20 is dead when they're still making plenty of guns "chambered" for it, and plenty of fans out there.
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The hw95/R9 platform is an excellent choice and it will give you decades of shooting enjoyment. Most everyone on this forum has their spring guns DIY or professionally tuned. But we are not typical owners, and HW springers shoot very well out of the box too.
All of my springers are .177 and I hunt often. With JSB 8.4s or 10.3s, they are deadly on small game out to 40 yards.
Enjoy!
R
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So my research just hit the nitro gas ram thing. Reading more... I'm try to find how these are inferior to springers and they don't seem to be. What am I missing?
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So my research just hit the nitro gas ram thing. Reading more... I'm try to find how these are inferior to springers and they don't seem to be. What am I missing?
The vast majority of “nitro pistons” are put into lower cost guns that are built to a lower spec than the Weihrauch, Diana or Air Arms spring guns. IMHO the nitro piston power plant itself isn’t as inferior as the materials used and the manufacturing tolerances. I’ve owned a few of these guns (i.e., Gamo, Crosman, etc...) and they we nowhere near as accurate as my HW spring guns. The vast majority of high quality Weihrauch, Diana or AA spring guns are built with steel springs and most competitive field target shooters also use steel springs. One of the advantages of steel springs is that they never leak and they are very easy and cheap to replace and/or adjust. Not so with most nitro piston guns.
The nitro piston guns often have a very snappy shot cycle that some shooters say impairs accuracy. I think that Weihrauch still makes one model that still uses a gas ram (i.e., nitro piston) powerplant (hw90). But the gas ram they use is a very high quality design and the gun is pretty expensive.
Another thing to keep is mind is that steel spring guns can also be left cocked while hunting for hours and hours with no ill effect on power.
Nothing wrong with nitro pistons per se, but they are very different than most of the spring guns we discuss here.
R
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Thanks EMRider. Good reply.
The only one I've found that looks good to own is the Diana 340 N-tec Luxus. Sadly, it is discontinued. If I could find one, I'd buy it. I'm not sure where to look for good used air guns.
Back to my Beeman/Weihrauch research...
Robert
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HW90 if you're after gas ram but its expensive.
I still think that since you have said you won't consider .177 caliber (the mainstay pellet caliber), and has concerns of some guns being 'too wimpy', that you might be best served by PCP offerings. They're not going to have the unique hold of a springer, its going to be more translatable to firearm shooting/practice, they shoot anything from a .177 cal, .20, .22, .25 etc up to .50 caliber, so you can really pack a wallop with the FPE. Longer range, better accuracy, easier learning curve than many springers (depending on what you buy).
Many of us like springers because they're all unique beasts, and a different type of shooting from all other forms, but if I was switching it up from firearms just due to ammo availability, inflation costs of ammo etc, I'd want to select the thing closest to a firearm experience.
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As already mentioned. “Nitro Pistons” are generally marketed on lower end guns as a marketing ploy vs the HW class rifles. Your first choice of a Beeman R9 in .20 you will not go wrong with. There are currently very few pellet options, but all with exception of the Benjamin Cylindrical pellets, they are all quality options. My .20 R9 will shoot any pellet with easy amazing accuracy between 13 and 15 FPE. Even the lower quality Benjis. We all start somewhere and I almost would bet it wouldn’t be the last AG you buy.
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Newer, but not inferior, technology.
Just different.
Archie
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HW90 if you're after gas ram but its expensive.
I still think that since you have said you won't consider .177 caliber (the mainstay pellet caliber), and has concerns of some guns being 'too wimpy', that you might be best served by PCP offerings. They're not going to have the unique hold of a springer, its going to be more translatable to firearm shooting/practice
I saw the HW90 listed but it was a little heavy for me. That Diana 340 N-tec Luxus really looked sweet - walnut stock and all. :-\
I don't want to dive neck deep into PCP land, but if I did, that Daystate Huntsman Regal looks dang sexy.
Your first choice of a Beeman R9 in .20 you will not go wrong with. There are currently very few pellet options, but all with exception of the Benjamin Cylindrical pellets, they are all quality options. My .20 R9 will shoot any pellet with easy amazing accuracy between 13 and 15 FPE. Even the lower quality Benjis. We all start somewhere and I almost would bet it wouldn’t be the last AG you buy.
You are probably right. I may end up buying more.
I have quite a collection of regular guns. I normally like things to be "useful" though, and I don't mean that as an insult to anyone else. I have a Japanese Katana over my fireplace. It's not a cheap wall hanger or prop, but a real one. 'tis part of the reason I like my powder guns too. It's also one of the reasons (not the only one) why the .177 doesn't appeal to me. "Black" rifles don't appeal to me either. Wood stocks and timeless quality are my style.
So anyway, I ordered (reordered?) the R7 in .20 and some basement target stuff. This will hold me during the Winter. If it turns out to not be good enough for longer ranges in the Spring, I can revisit. In either case, I have a 17yr daughter excited about the prospect. She's my shooting partner and we didn't get to do much in 2020.
Thanks to everyone who replied. I'll keep my eyes peeled and keep learning. Just when I thought I had enough hobbies, I learn something new. :o
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Looks like AOA has the diana 340 N-Tech in .22 caliber with a synthetic stock.
https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/gas-ram-rifles/diana-model-340-n-tec-panther-.22/ (https://www.airgunsofarizona.com/gas-ram-rifles/diana-model-340-n-tec-panther-.22/)
Another idea is the Diana EMS 34. Its Diana's new model 34 that is modular. It comes as a standard 34 essentially but allows for all sorts of modular customization like the addition of a gas ram instead of the spring, or easy changing of barrel calibers, etc. It's purposely made to allow plug and play type changes. The 34 and hw95 are pretty similiar for power levels.
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Robert,
If I may...
provide a little background (from only recently getting back into pellet rifles).
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III. The first (I) is the lower powered airguns, shooting under 12 fpe. My HW30 (R7) shoots at about 7 fpe. The Brits, along with numerous others, have limited pellet rifles to 12 fpe. Though you can tune spring coils and PCP to 12 fpe, there's really no need (beyond government controls). It's amazing what guns shooting <12 fpe can do. In two years, I've eradicated over 200 squirrels from my yard--all with .177 (not trying to influence you) at less than 30 yards (though I've hit five at 35 yards).
Category II is the intermediate power domain, shooting from 13-24 (or 30) fpe. I typically view this as where the springers begin losing ability to PCPs, since the springers have to weigh more to counteract the vibration for slinging heavier, if not faster fps pellets/slugs. From reading, many guns don't have the umph to shoot slugs well if they're in this domain. Though I have several springers that can shoot 16-19 fpe, I typically only shoot them from a rest (due to weight). They are good guns, and I believe that with practice, I could be making occasional 75+ yard shots. OTOH, I would buy a PCP in a minute, if that distance was what I wanted. Hence, the yards targeted, along with the pellet weight and the goal of shooting (plinking vs. pest control) become major considerations. if I were buying a rifle for 24-30 fpe, I'd definitely become a PCP shooter, and probably move on up to a .25 or .30 platform--that's the III category for me.
Cat III, in my vocabulary, is for the heavy hitters (over 30 fpe). I'm guessing that some .22 rifles are capable of that with the right weighted pellet; but the higher calibers virtually own this domain. Again, this is PCP territory.
So, as other above have communicated--decide what distance you might shoot, the intended target, and then the physical constraints that you may have (holding an 11 lb air rifle with scope). Then buy the platform that best suits your need. Those of us using and recommending the .177 are more than likely shooting lesser distances and smaller pests. So, the love for a caliber is totally in the eyes of the beholder. If I started over again, I might have bought both .22 and .177; but, in my context, I don't need or want any more power.
have fun and be safe,
Archie
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I shot some 13.73gn JSB's from my 50 in 20cal, I zeroed the same distance as the 11.42gn FTT's and at 35yds it took a mill dot of hold over to get the 13.73's to the same impact point, I zero at 23yds, and at 35yds the FTT's are still dead on at that distance! ;D
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Should I buy the FTT's then? I had ordered the JSB's but could change it.
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I’d buy a few tins from different suppliers to see which is the most accurate with your rifle. Once you find the best pellet. Buy a ton of them.
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Robert,
If I may...
provide a little background (from only recently getting back into pellet rifles).
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III. The first (I) is the lower powered airguns, shooting under 12 fpe. My HW30 (R7) shoots at about 7 fpe. The Brits, along with numerous others, have limited pellet rifles to 12 fpe. Though you can tune spring coils and PCP to 12 fpe, there's really no need (beyond government controls). It's amazing what guns shooting <12 fpe can do. In two years, I've eradicated over 200 squirrels from my yard--all with .177 (not trying to influence you) at less than 30 yards (though I've hit five at 35 yards).
Category II is the intermediate power domain, shooting from 13-24 (or 30) fpe. I typically view this as where the springers begin losing ability to PCPs, since the springers have to weigh more to counteract the vibration for slinging heavier, if not faster fps pellets/slugs. From reading, many guns don't have the umph to shoot slugs well if they're in this domain. Though I have several springers that can shoot 16-19 fpe, I typically only shoot them from a rest (due to weight). They are good guns, and I believe that with practice, I could be making occasional 75+ yard shots. OTOH, I would buy a PCP in a minute, if that distance was what I wanted. Hence, the yards targeted, along with the pellet weight and the goal of shooting (plinking vs. pest control) become major considerations. if I were buying a rifle for 24-30 fpe, I'd definitely become a PCP shooter, and probably move on up to a .25 or .30 platform--that's the III category for me.
Cat III, in my vocabulary, is for the heavy hitters (over 30 fpe). I'm guessing that some .22 rifles are capable of that with the right weighted pellet; but the higher calibers virtually own this domain. Again, this is PCP territory.
So, as other above have communicated--decide what distance you might shoot, the intended target, and then the physical constraints that you may have (holding an 11 lb air rifle with scope). Then buy the platform that best suits your need. Those of us using and recommending the .177 are more than likely shooting lesser distances and smaller pests. So, the love for a caliber is totally in the eyes of the beholder. If I started over again, I might have bought both .22 and .177; but, in my context, I don't need or want any more power.
have fun and be safe,
Archie
This was a great and informative post !! Many thanks
kindly
ron
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Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.
As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½. I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby. I never had a BB gun as a kid. I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me. That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. ;D
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Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.
As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½. I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby. I never had a BB gun as a kid. I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me. That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. ;D
Well, that's the rub--most of us come here from shotgun and hunting rifles, believing that more power is better. In airguns, I've found out (via using the HW30/R7) that more power in a springer typically yields only more effort to shoot well. If a smaller pellet (7-8gr) shooting at a lower speed (600-700) can be instant lights out at 30-35 yards on a squirrel, what MORE does one need?! Caliber size affects area of damage, not just deadliness. So, aim well enough and the smaller caliber and lower power tools get the job done to the same degree as the more expensive kits. Let me restate this: a .25 caliber slug from a powerful PCP or springer would make an awesome kill shot; but my 6.9gr RWS HP, if placed right, will make the same kill (at shorter distances--under 40 yards typically). Hence, I don't need the $$$ air rifle when a less costly one will suffice.
Now, need is NOT what drives me; so by all means, do buy what you want!!!!!! More importantly, allow us to enable you to buy more, more often, and more expensive--if that's what YOU WANT.
I congratulate you on an excellent first purchase--the R7 (=HW30). That's a terrific little rifle. I'd suggest you get a quality scope ($180-300 range). I did otherwise and have spent more often to achieve less quality. Buy right; buy once!
Archie
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Robert,
I view airguns as falling into three categories, which I designate as I, II, and III.
As a "need", I don't fall into any of those categories, but as a "want" I'm around a 1½. I don't own a pest control company and I assume most here don't either, so for me this is just a hobby. I never had a BB gun as a kid. I learned on real guns, so tiny pea shooters (pardon my French) don't excite me. That said, I am starting with the Beeman R7 as many have recommended, although I'm simply a lot older than those who usually do. ;D
Well, that's the rub--most of us come here from shotgun and hunting rifles, believing that more power is better. In airguns, I've found out (via using the HW30/R7) that more power in a springer typically yields only more effort to shoot well. If a smaller pellet (7-8gr) shooting at a lower speed (600-700) can be instant lights out at 30-35 yards on a squirrel, what MORE does one need?! Caliber size affects area of damage, not just deadliness. So, aim well enough and the smaller caliber and lower power tools get the job done to the same degree as the more expensive kits. Let me restate this: a .25 caliber slug from a powerful PCP or springer would make an awesome kill shot; but my 6.9gr RWS HP, if placed right, will make the same kill (at shorter distances--under 40 yards typically). Hence, I don't need the $$$ air rifle when a less costly one will suffice.
Now, need is NOT what drives me; so by all means, do buy what you want!!!!!! More importantly, allow us to enable you to buy more, more often, and more expensive--if that's what YOU WANT.
I congratulate you on an excellent first purchase--the R7 (=HW30). That's a terrific little rifle. I'd suggest you get a quality scope ($180-300 range). I did otherwise and have spent more often to achieve less quality. Buy right; buy once!
Archie
BRAVO, excellent post!!
The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.
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The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.
The significant FPE difference doesn't matter for squirrels?
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The only benefit of a .177 HW95 for hunter class field target shooting (and squirrel hunting) vs a .177 HW30 is a flatter trajectory which is more tolerant of "ranging errors" when shooting at distances other than the zero distance.
The significant FPE difference doesn't matter for squirrels?
LOL.....in my "powder burner days" I had more than a couple squirrels "double lunged" with a .22 rimfire slug at a bit over 100fpe yet still travel a few feet to get into a tree hole.
When living in West Virginia my brother and hunted squirrels on a trail, taking turns shooting. I was using my .177 R9 and my brother was using his .22 rimfire, however to "be more equal" he was shooting .22 short hollowpoints (about 80fpe me). We stalked a squirrel that was concentrating on a couple walnuts about 20 yards away. It was my brother's turn and with the shot the squirrel jumped about "straight up" and made a mad dash to a walnut tree about 20 yards off the narrow path. I was laughing (thinking the 20 yard offhand shot was a miss) and advised "chuck a rock next time HARdeHARhar". Well, the squirrel started climbing the tree trunk and dropped dead. The squirrel was perfectly double lunged and the exit hole was large enough to fit the end of a finger. When cleaning the squirrels we took that day we noticed that the short hollow point literally took off the top half of the heart. That convinced me even more that piddly 12-14fpe doesn't mean very much. Penetration THROUGH THE VITALS is what's needed. "Through the vitals" on squirrels means through the brain or deflating both lungs. As long as the springer has enough power to do this it's ok, however I do question the ability of the R7/HW30 to do this unless it's a brain shot. Decades ago I owned a tired .177 HW35 that shot RWS SuperDomes at about 650fps and it was reliable on bird feeder wrecking squirrels with head shots but less than reliable with rib shots.
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I have been one of those using a Winchester 1906 Pump .22 with Federal Hollow points through and through both lungs and even heads. And that squirrel dances and crawls anywhere else but where it was hit.
Later I got a .22 Tarantula and that rifle killed squirrels FASTER than the .22 Long Rifle Hollow Point because it got DUMPED completely inside the squirrel to anchor it there. Seen this many many times with .22 LRs v .22 PCPs.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
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I mainly shoot the 13.73gn JSB's from my R1's because they have more power to push them and they tend to give a better shot cycle due to their weight for this size power plant, The 95/97 size power plants fair better with the 11.42gn FTT's they are better suited IMO for this size rifle, ;D
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I love reading these post !! Thanks guys and gals. It funny thou I have 2 LDs one shoots 22 cal 14 grain Miesters at 580 fps. Never had a problem dropping squirrls out to 35 yards with either head or lung shots. That said if my LDs can do it then a HW 30 in 22 can do it too. Keep in mind these are flat head pellets....
It amazes me what a little 22 14 grain pellet can do at low FPS.. Shot placement is everything. One reason why pest bolt when hit with a rimfire is most times the bullet pass's clean thru the critter not releasing all of its energy to the body mass.
Rock on guys and a Very Merry Christmas to one and all
kindly
ron
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as a side bar !! Years ago I had Paul Watts build me a custom HW 50 in 22 cal. I wanted dead calm and smoothness over pure power. Paul did has ADV tune to the gun which includes buttoning the piston. All of this in a J.M custom sporter stock, with 2-9 power scope. This is my favorite squirrel popping rigs. This rifle is no power house yet it has worn in so very nice and the power has gone up.out to 45 yards and vermin is just toast. eiyj flat head match style pellets.
kindly
ron
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Gotta say that I really like the R9 in .20. I am very partial to .20 cal and the JSB pellets in 13gr seem to work well in the air rifles I have. I have a R9 and a R7 both in .20 and they are my favorite break barrels. I tend to shoot the R7 anywhere from 15 to 30 yards. The lower power makes the cocking very easy. The R9 can easily hit a 1" target consistently at 50 yards. I have made shots with it, past 100 yards as well.
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Gotta say that I really like the R9 in .20. I am very partial to .20 cal and the JSB pellets in 13gr seem to work well in the air rifles I have. I have a R9 and a R7 both in .20 and they are my favorite break barrels. I tend to shoot the R7 anywhere from 15 to 30 yards. The lower power makes the cocking very easy. The R9 can easily hit a 1" target consistently at 50 yards. I have made shots with it, past 100 yards as well.
That might be the combo I go for! I ordered the R7. Have to wait a while.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
Absolutely agree.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
Absolutely agree.
You know Limb...,
I almost always agree with You and Brett, but in this case (being a Target "Only" Shooter) I couldn't disagree more. The .20 in a R1 or R9 are wonderful ;). Not quite in the realm of "Never Clean Your Barrel" or "Don't work on Your Gun as it will diminish its Value", but in the "Parking Lot of the Playing Field ;D."
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Been a long time since I've hunted, but I did a LOT of squirrel hunting, back in the day. I do remember lung shots always taking longer to kill a squirrel than a head shot, regardless if you are using an air rifle or 22 LR. I avoided lung shots if a squirrel was anywhere near a hole or den where it could escape. Ground shots, no problem
As for the 20 not being effective? Ha! I used a Sheridan for much of my squirrel and rabbit hunting and only used 6 pumps. That would have been about a piddly 9 fpe with those old Sheridan cylindrical pellets. Those old Sheridan cylindrical gave great penetration, though. That old Sheridan was very effective, but the key to making it work was that I kept shots at 25 yards or less. My point is that you always have to include that distance factor in any of these discussions about which gun and which caliber is best.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
Absolutely agree.
You know Limb...,
I almost always agree with You and Brett, but in this case (being a Target "Only" Shooter) I couldn't disagree more. The .20 in a R1 or R9 are wonderful ;). Not quite in the realm of "Never Clean Your Barrel" or "Don't work on Your Gun as it will diminish its Value", but in the "Parking Lot of the Playing Field ;D."
Hey Kirk! I have NEVER shot .20 cal. I’ll admit that.
Sometimes people just don’t like something without ever trying it and this is the case for me and .20. I have read many of the proponents for the .20 and it makes sense and just thinking about it seems like the .20 would be a “right in the middle“ combination for the best in both .177 and .22 caliber. I just never warmed up to the .20. Maybe if I had tried one I would change my mind??? 🤔🤷♂️
There are things about the 177 I prefer over 22 and vise versa. Both calibers are very useful. In the 95 action I personally prefer 177 but 22 is nothing to turn ones nose up at. The supposed “loopy” trajectory of the 22 is a non issue. It’s like anyone that has multiple guns in different calibers and power levels, it boils down to KNOWING what the shooter and that that gun are capable of and what needs to be accomplished.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
Absolutely agree.
You know Limb...,
I almost always agree with You and Brett, but in this case (being a Target "Only" Shooter) I couldn't disagree more. The .20 in a R1 or R9 are wonderful ;). Not quite in the realm of "Never Clean Your Barrel" or "Don't work on Your Gun as it will diminish its Value", but in the "Parking Lot of the Playing Field ;D."
Lol Im picking up what you're putting down. We are on the same page.
I just never found the .20 to be enough of an advantage in any way for my shooting, to justify the cost and poor availability of pellets. I'm sure it's a fine caliber, I just never found it worth the trouble for me and my applications.
I hunt with my stuff most, and prefer .177 which most people see as backwards in itself LOL! My springers aren't typically powerhouses, and I have grown to like the trajectory of them in .177. And they kill things cleanly so that's really all I need.
Its all good, the important thing is finding what works for what you wanna do with it.
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177 but if you refuse then 22. Scrub 20
Absolutely agree.
You know Limb...,
I almost always agree with You and Brett, but in this case (being a Target "Only" Shooter) I couldn't disagree more. The .20 in a R1 or R9 are wonderful ;). Not quite in the realm of "Never Clean Your Barrel" or "Don't work on Your Gun as it will diminish its Value", but in the "Parking Lot of the Playing Field ;D."
Lol Im picking up what you're putting down. We are on the same page.
I just never found the .20 to be enough of an advantage in any way for my shooting, to justify the cost and poor availability of pellets. I'm sure it's a fine caliber, I just never found it worth the trouble for me and my applications.
I hunt with my stuff most, and prefer .177 which most people see as backwards in itself LOL! My springers aren't typically powerhouses, and I have grown to like the trajectory of them in .177. And they kill things cleanly so that's really all I need.
Its all good, the important thing is finding what works for what you wanna do with it.
"And they kill things cleanly so that's really all I need."
Yep, same here. Matter of fact I saw no benefit with .20 or .22 cal pellets from my HW95 power springers but there were a few disadvantages............
(https://i.imgur.com/nkJD2lU.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/jOqzhB7.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/5m3aq42.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/KwinU67.jpg)
What usually happened to the squirrels..........
(https://i.imgur.com/xv2FDzZ.jpg)
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The .20 was always on my mind the moment I knew it existed after the Sheridan in Beeman rifles with him telling the story about the .20 compared to .177 and .22.
It's a legitimate endeavor to buy one--but to say it is better than .177 or .22 or .25 is where I can hesitate and look solely at the HW95 .177 and HW98 .177 feeling loyalty to .177.
It works despite its tiny size and it is accurate and as far as using it on game I can't see why it should be replaced with a .20, much less the .22 or .25.
When range increases to 40 and 50 yards we have to pick what works for us at that range, and once we get out of "backyards" with limits and enter an open field I'd feel hard pressed to choose the .20 in a D54. But a .20 in the R9 or HW95 series to me is more of a target shooter--especially in the HW98.
Long range is beyond 40 yards to me. I've taken shots at over 90 yards with a .20 Eliminator but that taught me a lesson about the real range of air rifles. Springer or Gas Ram or PCP once you start shooting beyond 40 yards you really have to have your dung together!
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Well Guys,
As you can see, I mostly shoot everything in .177 caliber and leave the .22 cal. for PCP's.
Love my HW95 in .177 caliber, but in the last couple of years, I have also grown very fond of the .20 caliber JSB 13.73 pellet. The lack of pellet choices in .20 is also kind of a myth... kinda like only having 6 choices in .177 (CPL, AA Falcon, JSB 7.87, JSB 8.44, JSB 10.34 and H&N 8.64).
However, if I had to use only one pellet size for my Springers ... it would be .177 8).
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There's no way I'd give up Hector's .20 D54 or my HW98 .20 or my HW80 .20.
There's something there in .20 which can join the .177 and .22 into one.
Realize the .40 handgun was the idea of .45 and 9mm at once for the Bren Ten (I could have bought one without a magazine at Beeman's San Rafael Shop in the 1980s but passed up the idea since the magazine was missing or not yet manufactured) and today that handgun caliber is very popular between the 9mm and .45.
With the .20 Hector said the caliber is ideal for the D54. It is.
Not the .177 or the .22 but the .20 is the best for the D54.
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have had all calibers and prefer the .22, just personal preference. Ive still got 8 tins of .20 JSB left from when i sold my .20 R-9
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I've had all calibers and think the .177 and .20 is enough.
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So I’m reading through the thread again and we all have similar experiences with similar guns and calibers and what I read into all of this is that ANY of the calibers WILL get the job done, it boils down to personal preference. The only way to know what works and what a person likes is to actually try it! One thing we ALL seem to agree on is the significance of the HW95 model being a VERY versatile tool. It handles whatever we throw at it with accuracy and ease of use. It’s a good thing to be a part of this “club” of HW95/R9 fans. Be well brothers and sisters! 🤜🏼🤛🏻👊🏼
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I've had all calibers and think the .177 and .20 is enough.
You used to be sing'n the praises of the .25 pellets in your springers.....
-Y
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I've had all calibers and think the .177 and .20 is enough.
You used to be sing'n the praises of the .25 pellets in your springers.....
-Y
I know for myself that pretty much ANY one of the airguns that I have are “THE one” when I pick it up and shoot it. I enjoy shooting these things so much that it’s hard to really say one is better than the other. 177 cal is enough for me but there are so many others that are so much fun too! My mood has a lot to do with which one is my flavor of the day also. 😊🍦
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Andy actually had a good chart on the .20, even though his conclusion was suspect simply because of the limited choices. However, he could not fault the JSB 13.73gr. They give almost the same punch as .22 but a flatter trajectory.
That part starts here: https://youtu.be/nArzO2bQq7Q?t=532 (https://youtu.be/nArzO2bQq7Q?t=532)
This gives a good argument against a .22 in a lower powered rifle. ie. It's a good choice if you were considering .22, not .177
Obviously if you can go faster, you can make up for the .22 loopy trajectory with brute force.
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Makes me wanna go shoot my detuned R9 .22 cal shooting 14.6 H&N at 640 fps..... it’s just too cold outside though. 36 degrees and damps which makes it feel colder than it is.
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I've had all calibers and think the .177 and .20 is enough.
You used to be sing'n the praises of the .25 pellets in your springers.....
-Y
I know for myself that pretty much ANY one of the airguns that I have are “THE one” when I pick it up and shoot it. I enjoy shooting these things so much that it’s hard to really say one is better than the other. 177 cal is enough for me but there are so many others that are so much fun too! My mood has a lot to do with which one is my flavor of the day also. 😊🍦
Me, too. I always prefer the one I'm shooting. :)
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JSB Exact typically has the best BC over all other pellets. Especially Weihrauch barrels like the JSB pellets. So I would not hestitate at ALL to buy a Hw95 in .20 cal. Heck, I even think it could be a perfect match.
And if you would regret your choice. Weihrauch has a wide variety to choose from when it comes to spare parts, so buy a barrel only in the caliber you prefer, swap the barrels and deal done.
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I've had all calibers and think the .177 and .20 is enough.
You used to be sing'n the praises of the .25 pellets in your springers.....
-Y
Ha! Yes Yogi!
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I have two HW30’s one urban pro with a 2x7x32 HAWKE AIRMAX. the other an HW30N with a Williams peep sight, both in .177 25 yards and under they are the most fun. I also have an early 1990’s R9 .177 that has a vortex pg2 12 ft lb kit and out to 40 yards it’s shoots like a dream as does my hw95 Luxus .22 cal at 40 yards and an HW35E also in .22 I had a 1990’s R9 in .20 cal and back then there just didn’t seem to be many pellet choices so I gave it to my son and got the .177. The R9 is a great rifle and my son loves the .20 as for me. I’ll stick with either .177 or .22
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Robert, my 95 is in .20 and I couldn’t be anymore pleased with its performance. .20/5.0mm is just another caliber. Keep in mind one thing, with a quality gun like the Weihrauchs, you don’t need multiple different pellets to find out what your gun prefers. The .20 pellet selection has been narrowed down,….(almost too much by the manufacturers to a fault), yet a good quality domed pellet in a quality rifle like an HW will only come down to a few pellets in all reality. If it were a Chinese .20 rifle, then that might be a different story. The 95 in .20 does provide a good power to caliber balance in my opinion. Good luck with whatever caliber you choose.
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From what I've read elsewhere on this forum, the HW50 is just as hard to cock as the HW95. I prefer the .177 caliber for it's flatter trajectory. If you need to shoot heavier pellets, .177 pellets are available up to 16 gr, but methinks the 10.3 gr pellets are best for this rifle. Actually, I'm in the process of changing my HW95 down to 12 fpe. It will be much smoother to shoot and easier to cock.