GTA

Airguns by Make and Model => Diana Airguns => Topic started by: mcoulter on April 20, 2020, 08:59:21 PM

Title: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 20, 2020, 08:59:21 PM

I found a used .22 Diana 54 and while I'm waiting for a super-small allen key (.050) to mount a williams peep sight, I thought I'd get some trigger time with it.  I have had a bullseye mount and decided to see how it did with an AEON scope that has been somewhat problematic.  It's always fun to do slowmo videos of how the mount worked.  I was also interested in how the 54's action looked in slow motion.  Trigger pull is about 15 seconds in.  Looking at the video, I realize just how loose of a hold I have and how much the gun still comes back at me:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2uBLKTCBwo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2uBLKTCBwo)

Not much to report yet.  It's shooting about 19 fpe with jsb 18s and I've not so much as even cleaned the barrel on it.  It's been a bit breezy so it's a bit premature to come up with a feel for its accuracy yet.  It sure it pretty though!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QfIqKZqyMysCbmZQo3Ky7KEpS0OglHUAjqwWXHRUPf518lUys2CGPFBDhV3rU1OHReHwdvkBJo7YFngmQbGdEqPtJojXzcu8AfPHQ6nqr_GB_fXSd6CdRDT8u4xwH0-XpWxy_sIvQ4ntP1Xaf9vp8Uv2TjXLekW8LnWsIu1sMAHTBDS96XrsFyOs-aob0J7s0Rg2DuuMpYizmme1tDxNQn0Grvu0eEpD9mLaSD4jSYo0t24RNIosurCrthp8DjC1RP_XDLhQIaA8oIJzbMTURRg7b0y-jUyUnBBY_QwAAfP1XfusptJFbSKsP6vFBqgO4sOnEdwa08Hu6USDEZQC_t5yu6qb3pGu4Xoz39VZ3QBpK39itEzqz3l22Lf5ChPftBuJNXN6wuQGGqIlT4LfhknTioLg3icxjHXqEiQX5osF_F3jVlv1NbEAOVRyGzD6ysKBg0mp8_fwEThfjJGnthwVMBPM-xgtd2s-9UrniMVXpztxoAgU_R9uc6OJ45-la88ciA2Dadu2Kb9-JFKfFTqwmBcHiQYqbR6_UP83yLvK8uxKEwFhaSL2KNdX5FrXQN22c4CIXnwlHQP3a-5bl3Q4_Ra53QjjLQ7rDBbHRW1meTt-RKFdD7R57PKQEtvW20MrGyvkolAToc69pSLD_1dOT_EBC8jWDVouvezB61KnnGDdG9czVBUTpljsJs9GVJqkf-cVHiLUFpcALDhCOxJuWZ30eAero_YKNmxD6esj3__NTZKWBPE=w800)


33 yard testing (jsb 18s)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/TJsmj2_oBMw1gtZckX1mELhHJRf8CmppCElD-F6CWLxvyVImuU-T3tMS8o2Pj4tOMb7_KGIKM1k9hHLpAy1nBJ9MJ_oMcdCJowzkdK1evdd3JfFtvDKAe_sHAVGnDY96bPR0F6Zw6-KdCClmwbGRS1omW7T3xXitugXFUQ0PDo2yJXUtLPgac_L3xJrWRl01hUTAhrrRaPF_Pmu_svg5v3ykYxLdb79ABm_yQnJprAlwcKq5qf2WvLyNo4zAxad0xfzBRPA5seSfLHxJFykSQja-FIUotzdZYRiNd17UZJAxJSUpfMxQT6Sa88lHJaEmshjVNTTMESR55ZslInKopqL6jGaHKbYCAJf13NdUVuMGI7_OURf0qL9EsSglVTIcO-zaSFm2iQro5oVOO6FPvSdphWgUmtghoQWqgskqfdf-CPecelRo6JOIRQHy5j9H2mpIl0cz_ahrTQ030zkWpIQEzu_1h8GXybCIKL9ERAGGJp39m5AxpyKRhKDKtg6mZ0CgsENhcmWJtaqqSnx8zhgfB2EVQR7doEKnAFVCJDOMXEagp_vFW3OcMAEYDefSZVDnLclxk6SbDQ0yWpJUxEuqGyK2aJwDmt7wX5W60kSBJS5MIzdasjyLr37paUmiK5hbRmIJT-esydaZ31yC1sOSH5pBdzV3EuRzaa_zeNGDSZajFemaKWGd25M8Hgo7cUFLPyrn7n8mnYdTfvoI947RNW8ZzCmYnn5p2ZaY7i41yUX-LREyOEA=w1353-h761-no)


Playing at 53 yards (jsb 18s)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/yDWZ1MVTRriPhlo9ftreQU9VpbMj2zZDDnpziPLWdDpXGxhhUfd7NzCuUAYW42AhstiHYqcxoazdxKqpkmIqLHq3ho5do3PXBNwMY5vAG5ie36x5MHnxf55q4YB-Oz9elwiPQgiMDDkbcV5TMXyl4Hk-6K1_PG-DdRWyijkhEvSsmuJK8RW-dDy0fiZtgVtcEBLSlBMGYd57qU39yLmxi1K-SdE_--YiJJFCtOvBT9QcRb4MOcNNVNsRkzI8nRYbbaHnAZMjhPifXcQ-vpSRctiMAcWWT-XYf9VVnLyYFb7OHrVcClw1AImO7kJbX3hfUckHYRyfAy1ZStUttZEmIqy3UE6kBZpnVn5Qs_43oc-Paxir5oVfr-rZM1bFgidbnrS4wnwV6Tw-IwgV-RVYL9tr-_DkwdWgPOBCSNLCHlW8j4icRE50BXJLEJj0TThqFRGAShylZhjavvmNymPrQ3Bm8eoP_TfnRUV2ANcj5crfFZeILRvFkNhjWJ5RVUKMmtlib_kqLbTb4vA9sNmieK795XiXj4hoNScjbKSvsMTedXdWnrWMuR2TBGKamV_guw3Ce9gJRnvo06PTH2OwehuqlBBgGsYQTJn8Ox4aFV6riQqysF6K1vTM5Tp7x9pG3oFD_BgQahbYKIXWf4_5idvbQKpfA9E9EtD5Wz_DTIZ0ODxmOso7gpKxuIXpP6q6PF5ABvW4inqMRB2dDFzpiMn44d-txlLM_8iRb_nnYgkaeogCvQxUgrE=w1353-h761-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Wolfer on April 20, 2020, 09:06:28 PM

Waiting for my Bullseye.mount,kind of excited to see how it works out. You have a nice rifle there, enjoy.    Mike

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: fwbsport on April 21, 2020, 01:25:05 PM

I told Lizzie I was replacing all my air rifle mounts to ZR.  One by one.

I have them right now on the D54 .20, HW98 .20, and HW80 .25.

I like your rifle very much!

Congratulations!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 21, 2020, 02:50:59 PM

Thanks folks.  Since this is the first 54 I have had, can anyone confirm how much the sled is supposed to move when the shot is fired?

I also found this post which details its adjustment - which would have been my next question here  :-)

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130183.msg1283281#msg1283281 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130183.msg1283281#msg1283281)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Roadworthy on April 21, 2020, 03:05:59 PM

Thanks for the video.  The ZR mount performed as I anticipated it would.  I was surprised at the amount of recoil the gun seemed to have on the stock to your shoulder.  I expected none.  Perhaps adjusting the sled would reduce it.  I don't know - I've never before seen a 54 in action.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 21, 2020, 04:13:24 PM

Quote from: Roadworthy on April 21, 2020, 03:05:59 PM

Thanks for the video.  The ZR mount performed as I anticipated it would.  I was surprised at the amount of recoil the gun seemed to have on the stock to your shoulder.  I expected none.  Perhaps adjusting the sled would reduce it.  I don't know - I've never before seen a 54 in action.

Yes, I was too.... I guess that I do keep a very loose hold while shooting.  I should also mention that I did have a couple of layers on due to the temperature so there was a fair amount of fabric between my shoulder and the butt of the gun and that probably allows a fair amount of space for the recoil.

After reading sled adjustment posts, I did check mine and it seemed really tight.  I ended up loosening it about 1.25 turns to where it's stable in all positions, but moves much more freely.  I will use this for a starting point and see how the guns performs.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: BeeZee on April 21, 2020, 04:46:03 PM

Quote

Thanks folks.  Since this is the first 54 I have had, can anyone confirm how much the sled is supposed to move when the shot is fired?

My 54 goes back between 1/2" to 9/16".

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Duckfish on April 21, 2020, 04:47:34 PM

Maybe try it with the mount and scope removed?

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Yarddog on April 21, 2020, 11:15:20 PM

OP, the Williams sight should have come with the proper Allen key. Let me know if you have trouble finding one

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 22, 2020, 03:42:12 PM

Quote from: Yarddog on April 21, 2020, 11:15:20 PM

OP, the Williams sight should have come with the proper Allen key. Let me know if you have trouble finding one

Thanks!  I bought the rifle and sight used so the key did not come along with the setup.  I was able to get one through my local hardware store and it'll be here tomorrow.  Never having spent time with a peep, I'm looking forward to testing it that way :-)

After loosening the sled a bit, I took a few shots and it certainly feels better (smoother).  It's hard to tell from the video, but maybe it's moving a little more?

https://youtu.be/CgctVh8qkEQ?t=15

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: fwbsport on April 22, 2020, 04:16:43 PM

My D54 moves about a quarter of an inch back, where it remains unlocked in the sled until I point the muzzle down.

The screws were tightened by Hector and they haven't shifted.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 22, 2020, 08:47:35 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on April 21, 2020, 02:50:59 PM

Thanks folks.  Since this is the first 54 I have had, can anyone confirm how much the sled is supposed to move when the shot is fired?

I also found this post which details its adjustment - which would have been my next question here  :-)

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130183.msg1283281#msg1283281 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=130183.msg1283281#msg1283281)

The action travels approximately 1cm.  Fiddling with the tension on the detent ball will make it smoother and probably remove the stock movement that you mentioned.  Also check the positioning of the steel and rubber washers on the screws that connect the stock to the action.  About 20 in/lb of torque seems to work.  Another key is to ensure that there is no binding between the action to the stock. Overtightening the stock screws and compressing the rubber washers too much can cause that to happen.  You can fiddle with the stock screw tensions and sometimes see a bit of change in POI vs POA. 

By the way, your first groups at 50+yds look really good. 

I suggest the Straightshooters.com pellet test pack for about $40 that gives you about 18 different pellets to test for accuracy.   Makes it pretty simple to get a good idea what weight range your rifle likes. 

Interestingly, both my .177 54 and my .20 (Hector Special) 54 also shoot about about 19-20 fpe.  I guess that means that the OEM power plant piston and springs are the same across the calibers.

A friend bought a .22 54 on my recommendation a couple years ago and has, at last report, killed over 20 groundhogs out of this front yard with it.  Lots of power!!!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 22, 2020, 10:20:23 PM

Thanks dtdtdtdt for your comments.  Especially regarding the torque on the stock screws.  I have not had a gun with the large rubber grommet like this one does.  That would have been my next question  :-)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 22, 2020, 11:49:19 PM

The order of putting the rubber washers in is important.  They should be metal - rubber - metal both front and back. 

When I got my first 54 (.177) they were installed wrong and I had scuff marks and binding of the metal to wood.  Things got much better when I found a drawing with the correct arrangement. 

I haven't had issues with the sledge system but found that keeping the detent ball gently in place.  Not tight but enough to keep the action forward when cocked and moved around seemed to be the best way.  As you noticed if it is too tight, the recoilless system isn't quite!!!! 

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 23, 2020, 10:44:19 AM

Regarding the hold with the 54.  I have tried both soft and hard holds.  I find that the firmer hold seems to work best off a benchrest.  I use a Caldwell Tack Driver bag that supports much of the fore end of the stock and a "cuddle" hold.  That means I sit very close to the bag and arrange my left arm/hand under the rifle so my fist controls the bottom end of the stock. it is almost like crossing my arm across my chest.  My cheek is firmly on the stock - additional cheekpiece because of the high mount.  A small squeeze of my hand can finalize the crosshair position.  I have used this position for over 50 years on various setups and find it worked well. 

The above works well but while I have ZR mounts on both my 54s, I am less than pleased with the height of the mount.  It is too high in my opinion and makes a firm cheek weld difficult. Given the very short ranges of air rifles and the usual daylight shooting, I think the monstrous scopes that many use are a mistake.  The so-called droop would be less an issue if the distance between the center of the bore and the line of sight through the scope were smaller.  I also feel that the heavy scopes and high mounts can cause the shooter to inadvertently cant the rifle adding to the errors.  That extra weight also bothers me a bit on the 54s because of the recoiling action/scope/mounts mass may induce jiggles in the hold.  It's still the best system I have found yet but I keep looking for better.

 FYI, my FWB300 has a 3-9x32 Clearridge scope that is mounted as low as I can get it with the FWB SU cheekpiece putting my eye in just the right position.  The best 5 shot group I have ever shot was less than 0.08" c-t-c at 17 yds.  I also simulated lighting a match at the same time by shooting to hit the striker area on a printout of a real match - the range rules wouldn't let me do a real one.  (When really young and with excellent vision, I did light real matches at 20yds or so with my .22 LR. I wasted lots of ammunition in the process too1!!!)  The group was almost exactly the same size as the test group that was shot with the rifle at the factory (clamped down??) I will see if I can find my picture and put it here. 

However, I find my trigger control and squeeze is even more important.  If I get sloppy and put side pressure on the trigger blade shooting right handed, I find my shots go a bit right.  Only a 1/4" or so at 17 yds but enough to mess up my target.  I use a target with 60 bulls on it and put one pellet in each bull.  There is no way to hide errors by wallowing out the pellet hole. 

I have light trigger springs that I got from Hector-Medina.  That puts the trigger pull in the 12-16oz range.  Even there a bit of side-pull makes the difference. 

I speculate that side pressure makes the rear sledge rods move ever so slightly to the left during its travel throwing the pellet to the right.  The pivot point would be the front sledge rods.   

I continue to experiment but am limited now because my range is closed because of the virus epidemic.  If the weather warms a bit more, I will set up in my back yard at 30yds to do some more tests.  In a city but in woods so I have to be cautious.  The 54 is loud enough that one of my neighbors commented on the sound.  Not a problem from him but.....  My usual shooting position is from the kitchen table through an open window to muffle the sound.  Over 400 chipmunks in about 5 years!!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Mossonarock on April 23, 2020, 11:34:07 AM

I had significant recoil going through the stock of my D56 until I removed the metal bracket of the cocking fin that the cocking lever pushes against at the end of the stroke which pushes the gun's action forward. If you remove that bracket, you just have to remember to push the action forward before you shoot. I do that when I also push the trigger safety off. That cocking fin gets pinched between the cocking lever and the gun's action. Its not a fault in the design but rather an engineering trade off.

Quote

I speculate that side pressure makes the rear sledge rods move ever so slightly to the left during its travel throwing the pellet to the right.

I do experience that with my D56. I've been thinking of sending mine to Hector to have him put larger rails in and drill the holes in the sled to fit them; he's said that's something he can do. I can control it somewhat with my trigger pull but I shouldn't have to.

Also, DonnyFl does make some 1/2x20unf muzzle adapters that can be used to mount a sound moderator. I did that with my D56 and that along with the Vortek PG3kit greatly reduced the sound my D56 makes. Beforehand, my D56 sounded more like a .22lr.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 23, 2020, 11:48:15 AM

Quote from: Wolfer on April 20, 2020, 09:06:28 PM

Waiting for my Bullseye.mount,kind of excited to see how it works out. You have a nice rifle there, enjoy.    Mike

Thank Mike.  What will you be using your mount with when it arrives? 

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: fwbsport on April 23, 2020, 02:10:34 PM

There's a lot of thinking involved when shooting a D54.  If a thought goes awry while preparing to shoot it is easy to make a mistake to hurt the rifle itself, and I'm not talking about dry fires either.

The ratchet system allows you to load at ratchet noise ONE, the safest way.  You can pull that lever precisely and deliberately to the rear too fast to break the top piece of the stock in the lever area, or bend the lever system wrong against its own movement.

I like NOT being rushed while shooting the D54 the most compared to any other rifle.  It is too complicated and dangerous in action to get stupid with. ;D

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 23, 2020, 03:19:43 PM

The felt recoil That you mention?  I guess I am numb or something.  I don't recall feeling any such pass-through recoil. 

I did put a drop of oil (most likely CLP that the military uses on M-16s)  on the recoil rods when I had them apart last and did adjust the detent spring to make it release pretty easily.  Now that I think about it, I also used a countersink taper by hand to break the edge of the hole that the detent ball sits in.  Just enough to make the edge not a sharp edge.  This would have been at the same time as I "broke" the edges so I probably put a bit of 

It has been some time since I did that so a bit fuzzy on details. 

 

Moss:  I am not sure that you took off but as noted above I haven't had any significant recoil pass-through issues.  Perhaps you ought to discuss putting set screws with a teflon button in the mechanism that the rods move through.  it would be easier and cheaper than rebuilding the whole thing.  That's how Hector "tunes" the ZR bases to remove any residual side motion.  No reason it wouldn't work here too.

Next time I shoot them, I will be sensitive to the issue and watch for it. 

Dave

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 23, 2020, 03:33:39 PM

I pulled the stock off for the first time.  Boy, it has some heavy and sticky grease in there.  Given the temperatures we have (still around 40f), I suspect this might be gumming things up.  Dave, you mentioned CLP so I assume thick grease is not what's typically used here?   

It looks like the mounting plates and rubber are in the correct order. 

I got a few shots off today and each time I have it out, I do loosen the sled a bit.  Before today, I certainly felt it wanting to pull to the right (I am actually very glad that was mentioned here).  I also didn't cinch up the stock screws quite as snug as before.  That probably helps a bit too.  The little shooting I did during lunch was a bit better at 33y and a bit worse at 53y. 

My allen wrenches are in so I'll be playing with the peep before too long.  But before I do that, I plan to swap my SWFA 16X on this.  I don't *quite* trust how the AEON scope does.

Thanks folks for all the help!

:-)

And some pics...


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/tGZ6UabXmrPDI1yumTeBSj5xUieteKeletT75DkdVDQpdnnB5UlZSG0PP0VGOTbiEIzDQe-o1KoW7SsREDt4WI8ZchVvO2LOefiAM5EmhWOGNaB-B94RYpqyHPNfiegHf-XjQdqV3ALHtPjfYtu8G07lL4AivWJlyxYkS98SQN3t_qUJaU6zyDIkomnHgRXEVGipoPa75da_xeeGtpqvN1keKxdgwFHNAcAMYohLzS30qOgoEp9J0yfV4jo-_TKj2_GkJPqWcrVUOZnzyuZHVcHrYiwXzgupUEMU5YzU10n9uCxs2UbjVj_T8JOE1uNCgH0_1xcbS0koT-6f5XRkL1UsASbIlzGlWOc3ha-IYcwbeP1c7PPgCGPEo8b9g_fy5pB8Byjh9466BjSwb80r02bSg_cKG5tdxNnYqotGpvzrOZkURHs6zX2fIRsjl1GCF95KJBdJyPln0QQPdpbcRH-zdjHTg1C7ijh6N3JCuNjE9PIWLEKdeBV_iZm60nAhuRF5Wnc1uJ98TtVk_MyuZSCfqRiSLEyjE0c7rrQgeLZ27NFBoRV3_euxiN1sX6vnPqLVOffw1SOGllf0Erszj7h_FYviStrPTr7Ez_QxTAUVb5_HIG5NwhmoZIarjQL8Q4mHuIpXruFcMglUq6VffQOuk5Sd4S6pEgJYV0geFeDGaDVtIZwbzjqw3fsQOkNTVzoAM-9xTkRZhEptZCkNgT0ZxadSamBoDNVMBXHwCc-MCgcXl1Ji8CT8=w1579-h888-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/MIU-QXKbcGf0U2r1wKUMKUyKybeAEjrCqo5p4U1ElqClfA5n37ckeXsUDsJOIn5LOKinFVN-ny_nEWHVxyE8dLtujF2YLzl38snkhEzX1LmTIyqxcalG_L4zmMpMpt7X5lAlNfTFwPGsUefsM-c194tpMiE8ReuiERr-I1149MDzkdPXo5sh_VaxQLhdpP-YGy93WYHArJC-dG9lIqwX_kH7y_m7GG43rI-GKGiVkZA8m2aAkSOAvIZNz2Gg2cXwJdrWidxIbzLY8JOg64y6xK9ekCWdIf-kgF2kPpWV84mxJv0w0KJ_2eVE6HPiU7YbtfvN767cJG9mz2ezOtmpgfXI9-xrDBns4yw9aNhFcf0SvqcaiLV7U0yqRpISWhm1jikGeNPYPOtxNtxtrqpXvrECB-w_v56783aT9wBJEWcs2pm0hUNJFNO_7aBoeb1KQnkU4e1RY7AwW59KNFyqU5EKuG7GbqH56VixlnopFWiMdQqOA5d8ZmhpKz_EVSWIttaKorItWg89EeV1rcHYFMPwHR-69fj0sHNTkonxY3iWTU8FXa68n91Pn95rmTA3Sa23f7cTV6vyDEOnB7qAx7Nt4m328SE6WjXmujE8k2FL19u735JJASuRWPpcvaqLekhvOisGt6TIWwPYEIRlwBLpjc_TrDN5IB7RFgeGZ8nePDoNHsaiqRFiDTvbDbgUD1rgn7bYbEfM8N0rtdaGr8NPE2rGaQEMmz2-ytlw0lXIzzsZEatqlStJ=w1579-h888-no)


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZyyImvkeMlLEd-quNAFntr-dAs4wYsHR1S97jHsynE4fbp3zM4bXX01y3oJ3ocNHrdzB3D1E8cL9TWnvfNAgjVIcdoEY6ru8rB19G8wwUNdQAxUr_pZh3ytVCrn3-LaJj-0aBg1gl-iONaxj0Y3SCNUwMcF07IRPg-w6yqhfMwnYRlcOawzRZGc90bvuUBw2176hlFZIjcb_Yu6AD5muBgVvHou4RKkOvHqiSh1fCsBkS8OS_DpvcA9LiNd288Ee-MCEqRiNY-3ecwr-vB_tk-QTxE1ZnQe0ypKt3D31s6MeFrt4X9vxDxl0kW7BfEXvs_BL86NtgiHvTPvTlCzDB6DgBQ1J9mp_RQwjl-VKo4AbkZzpyPpWkGt9HoxmxsyJxmWV3zr9AH0x4Tjl6_xrwQHt-OHtPOtgl8zQPSVkNMEFJF4vYkImTz4Yi8Av6NHOeOVYYSg75HNwjWquzT9rrTO5uw_Ae9819VxwBUPVhH0PZn6xpRebCyPPM3xlhO54MMibplfzq-X23qULVEpvs09c6ffFF1tD7jmT0cgrkdVw_-0EJFzORzeAgSbgZxIUNaZ-U5J2N4eZ1TGHcCVyr4ckMMRk_zENQgDCsKHr4mBQ_XHN8rEOcnF2ugj0PWiCItL5930xgGhmntfY0ztD1jiE4QvC7J1lxFbib7reYpb6ydJoQDdeuGW9qQC94itm-jWGSGerteZ__ofJQ4iaBK-kvpnyS9z5w7Vnz7pfZW1vaOW6__xDuFfj=w1579-h888-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/DlDMYZQ3uMqKpIO-qj3Ju6Bqqyt7wWF1cyyRvXlzVjfXY7DBXL-mb38LSyi3VJ-iolf8h9FNN38U57ZmtzlisgAg6fwaWgl0eVOaRSQkwzxeFl_lYzrcDZs6hB3pzkJoq_GzEGkYLmQa7p53RGPpGDUp7ba_8EC7MwZ31cSvMvXD_8EgcQFiVAAD0WhktT1YjmBQNTnFilNDpZWaXju2VzK4vWRiGlW9boKyANwaUjqDkt6ZIoQtklLfF26IAS9JmwbMiD_QFIunBBQppigoeDAE32N1DELbOKD9wqvNLkiHijazHOhwIZiNQFI15PcGxFavPZNC_HsfUVfJbZC1iFzOJoDDAPCPN1ud0_tPgEz9nyn4TqakrlMM2_-MR7UhydFoThQWFO8L6SxNLneTlYUPK6xZWZzfhvD7lB12Af006hRvaNLv3qzFT7cn373YIoMBegvu7QAyiKzjCbGSKiHNwIufGbNjFU7_bFv_NcaIm3G976YIXQQmpAZGfGnF8HQ9G91S86XQ2voIfzsjivO0KrgKKCLlp2PBZlOJARvjzQsqn5jkRsXGiTuNCaH14LthfgMtbmXGDf2As-TeKkbgikoYRghxOAIr9DvP0QDvLFoz5-5PI_DzG2DcdhdtMfwucttOdKsJoGzRh0LJSm7rEw0NUQy79iRTal9XWegWu6Q8t5cMXKZYKJ-Dlpxuz0XnbKd1KbyrfynKxBpNPZnI8YQDeVBvlO_d4POaQcglfFGv-SADDt3_=w1579-h888-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Mossonarock on April 24, 2020, 02:25:26 PM

DT, That first pic in mcoulter's post above shows the metal bracket with the cocking fin that I'm talking about. The fin can interfere with the gun's action sliding. Also, I made a post here about what I did.

Now, the metal brackets that hold the rails I think are too thin to put a set screw in. It would have to be a very narrow set screw. That bracket is only a few mm's thick. I have considered putting some JB weld in there or maybe at least some vibra-tite. I tried jamming in very thin pieces of metal but I couldn't find anything thin enough and strong enough to jam in there. I tried razors but the metal is too brittle.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 24, 2020, 02:59:51 PM

I picked up the 0.50 allen key yesterday, mounted the peep sight and did a quick sight.  25 yards - I did the center bullseye first and then worked my way around the outside targets ending with the bottom right.  I then moved the squirrel target out to 33 yards only to realize that is my limit of seeing accurately.  I really coult not make out the bright red aim point.  All "group's" are 5 shots.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_wJCK81iJOrdn6_ZGcSPYP9aGXf9EO5OzyEuS1ERmnoDk1w6urbA5mStICW_3tmO4S5q_rwOd27ZaPHZ_DgnvsmkshUzPpz02I1XfBJwCXDvypKtixvvjoDPj_j25AbYxcZNo4-CLQxTPxbMa2tq7s-8ugZedPQTpXK14fZd1F2Qkt1Wy57EcPRX_3mDyCC-oiBEEyyub46GnX-G2AqY4iKw6dvCs5QQ6s8Er9oiChVOukk91_mGP7S_LLz78UAjCSYfj347MEDp97yC1VDctkxMZ0MSOLvzDQS1tu1JzBc5GQo24kqDvbW-elwBlejErgYSNqbgcInFpQ-TX1SDG_PIQNcj9DLZ4MCsoBLZ5aKiR3G-H8IqhsGZv0ZdUXV6o1oYF7piuxJ6wh-w0d8GUPBbaY19ZkmhHwjfo0yYKu4d9VIlwqX_D4XyfHEhmx-JTef52CZkrRbCiTnAjRCNCh0EL95Elq4ywFVioVk9lyd5UhuEU9pRFwPb7rf9bfXx4QF4ukOh7myDYmvSlidFEE8v142TA_lVAVOmhGt2h5Gk4uH7mR4dBaaDS9ko1_aELwIVv1lFpHZaCSqPUnYp7c-QRdOR_6OudMuEveCGjkIkmWpkm7HW1M2UMz9eE5U1F11x5tY5YtTpSeOCf1F6Qf3vDfGdH_v0jOOwEySIklpb21vgfM6tsg-E_qJ1qvn7PB3qLQ6oYBvX4BCQdvEHUL7DiKBR4fOPLALB5s2tfifgiM_5VJaXyI-5=w1175-h904-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Sm4K-W68NyGAWbprKVZU9JtdoJxrIbdOBQral3YDs86Yx5GxY1giOfb5g5Lq0vtfIQoNou5N1Ob0LzAdvoJ_Z8EMADRxGrKihC1-f-12zU4hRAbavBqhg8-AWTaE3Elgaf0aBztkdCbqIDRWV02aREOVGw1-xyk9uUaHsudgtBpL6YEuA0HUvP6xdFnyUbWVrCz1m5wYeDo6zHmPcFNR_8JYgkUYThNS2FGaZUfmmezmvGsac5twpaiq9BDn7u8gYbnX556sF_M6sIdvclnLAPGg0aoZ0txigbwEH9n1VuSvvoBeaBR9aN2L7AjylGOmC0RgjE0FbvwFAwS1VXvVC-m3dMpIstg9oYf5K_gS2PBACrBemIm04hu5Wob_wm7mS5B_1bSolbGe0EhWSf-qfrn1p6w0OC4QFLQeZKAqdXyD_lGZ1Lfs9q0nyQWxrBagk4rCcsn4rB8vi3yzY4tdI8RkNZhTSlqYm0cklJ4g15lbZTgXJAG7StHVnEu21vT3pLeVqQ7f6xaidNlfB1-AETM2FEn8GpvUu9IIOhNSI5LEnUsHdbmdRPbV25frq280mVvy5PXc6GEm6B3bsJcXlRGCQKVqTVZuyXpqgdb7-5MU-PWK6LzuD1VaERfWxv1XUNaXvFN75qT-rgKV_195ONKGfAu6UZdc1C4UI2_1rNKKcnOIlZHTtyDMaWeu0HTKypNMTpHXLXTSBdLpAFH_JV1QwZ1oJaSLi1exFwETGVuR3WvqQZleq6fK=w709-h903-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dwalk on April 24, 2020, 05:54:46 PM

its not on my 54 at the moment...but this is how I reconfigured my ZR mount and it lives on my HW90 at the moment

geeeeeeeez...can't do pix now

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 24, 2020, 07:40:04 PM

Matt: It looks to me that you need to start with a serious de-gunking of the internals.  You shouldn't have ANY visible grease globs or streaks in the action area.  Also, I hope you bought more than one .050 Allen wrench.  They disappear into the ether very easily and also are very tender.  A friend found a source for them at a machine shop supply so we bought a BUNCH of that size and the next one up.  I lose them regularly.

if mine, I would take it apart and put all the parts in my ultrasonic bath with my friend John's Magic Elixir that I use almost exclusively.  Years ago, I made a 3 gallon batch and am still using it.  (1 gallon Mineral Spirits, 1 gallon kerosene, a pint bottle of Rislone, and a pint bottle of Marvel Mystery Oil.). You can figure out the proportions for the quantity you might like and the ratios are not too critical.  I just buy the bottles that are about what I mentioned.  I keep a gallon in a can to use in the ultrasonic and filter it through a coffee filter after use.  I augment the Rislone and Mystery Oil when the spirit moves me - NOTHING MAGIC. The Rislone removes carbon gunk nicely and the fluid is completely black in the several years I have used that batch.  the mystery oil is a very good clinging lubricant. Once cleaned with this it is already lubricated and should need nothing else.  John used it on motorcycle chains and almost all his shop equipment.  I also keep a spray bottle on my workbench and use it on virtually everything that needs cleaned or drilled or lubricated.  I have even used it on sharpening stones!! I also clean extraordinarily dirty powder firearms with it.  Amazing what gunk comes out of them! 

On air rifles, I am much more careful with it to avoid getting into the piston area and in the chamber to minimum contamination in the bore area.  Qtips and cleaning patches do the job mostly. 

Where I think grease is required, I use the CLP that is readily available in gun shops or shows or preferably Dow Corning silicone grease from my life as a chemist.  It is less easy to find.  Hector also recommends a lubricant called LIQUIDBEARINGS from www.liquidbearings.com (http://www.liquidbearings.com).  Since he recommended with my Hector Special I use is in preference to my usual stuff on the theory that one should not fight success. 

Moss:  my suggested area of installation of the set screw with the teflon button is NOT in the brackets but in the Brass bushings that the rods pass through.  Movement of the rods back and forth in that bushing is what I would be concerned about.  The metal brackets shouldn't be an issue. As I mentioned earlier, I don't seem to have any extra recoil going on so don't see the need to make the change you did.  I will watch for it though!!!

Matt: I am jealous that you can see that well!!!  I am old and literally blind in my left eye with untreatable cataracts in my right one.  Interestingly, I can find a clear spot in my vision with most good scopes so use them exclusively.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 26, 2020, 01:12:52 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your suggestions!  I bought the .05 key as part of a combo set which are all together so I'll be (somewhat!) less likely to lose it this way!  That's a pretty interesting concoction of cleaners you use.  I could probably use a proper parts washer, but probably more out of laziness than anything else, I find myself grabbing a can of brake or carb cleaner to get stuff like this cleaned up...  And thanks for the liquid bearings suggestion that looks like a good product for this use :-)

The weather on Saturday was spectacular and I got some good shooting / testing in with the peep.   I'm really enjoying it and it looks pretty good on the rifle  ;-)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xby9chlbassoawiSwhS5z_MKEnbcn_6FuARGGvCWILMfMqD9pjGuo11W8-7Pz2XsyJvikdCcRTnUOlUQSHa8kKBKhiCawn8zMUHI9Eo0yRCjYIKUvg0N1vYkZDIgTulVGGWvKUK503m2ddhRWSuKFhAZbpPCXr3Q6PrKGZaAYgoCk3iRDtOetCxgBh7gwxc9t4Pvk_446Gjr_oHGR2rmdV2RO_OEMr4ML2Ubhuh8lLn6r3bG5vufljRn3zpMPxANWFqm4nNfSnpxb3RwnciDvbRhE1FXnKFP6Vt01SSaajGP4jCKhSMsZlwQiq7pYBtYjRGzj0DTszXJXkvmCXoKuvvNAmEjuNBpz8eM3qCh4FSZ88vWYZTI7fgjlwjqzVatdYHkgr9LL-7jzWKqrT71lLHr2srH51Nd8S4vIJouyCz2-mAgulACPd8W5eqI_RFEMxolRMDMhKHb8hjCWN7KFohZV0MbChU4jLF3dFIUBShMWuxGFGUqAM879QcaBeNX1hDWp4oK3mvdqkUxt0RtN_s9Hokt6v5Zd89HSVbrKyeK4L9peHGQhR8tshn8McAeU_1mSUfXYfmbDGprMa7VIn--yMO_6ekKY8r38yFUaTJDZKILH2sL179Ghy7VoqDIkGQpftws6H0WG_LwcTVVsTMSU03e1xc_vdnD7Av6K0XKnt2ffgxI78ZngBu1fQEMh00ue9nfZw3DmyVGVoxsRp_oqHvHRgfoCesCoJI9EecPeNN8amSpdZQ=w1346-h757-no)


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q3IROIytcIXlZtZM7KHYA9-IMZyVYY1VKkzClD2VreB6H66aGR4NdVTZY4Oa7oJLJ-czISMPs1ZEO3ga76RQgcIe7iAHjp8VFEzjamcsbx6MW8FEZMp9D9nuGZ6s4DIIqNix692v3Imv3OsXRS8-3wyBaRCGpyLQJelMgGZWJcl3oTI4UnzQ-TpObaJrJ_wWOZp1GJs3id56ITU59qRH37CqyjHCwEZ74M5UFAb5bABoPCyH5E1pZyzl78T_tUach6vy6r-LtIwcyc1AZ5DZwwnIRr2m6zxWarc9CcnNvTsmwFYr27w7zUzhEUpHCXYO7QihrJzEAmJ-JMBNyXfU5eCX0QYHqEgCIfnOtnyZkyVov8B7LcITRpNQb8B4XARnL-fX0NnO94Mg4NtMnxVNewQlDTbOnnQw7g64ndTmgxAwO--bqtVcp_5SVjosebJE9lc8sl5WqX6Sz7qCgYEXNLoBTMOFXRiYgi2asOXq5sPwDW7JVgPXrL5EL0ufmj73w1OX-kKtBzwo3AgElsEYevoWubdx1xJ0qu7DgebyF4g08tbi2u00a17mXNch3VAQqdoSQhziUAvgn_wMqig8F3r3z1it60p5QKESf-qXcWa1F3oAKqJaHVkXmlKDz378lLFM6I8QBaKKQZFlFDYDZ82arIU3oWaNn7gVWT1STBwcFBrjGBNR87ckDc5LxWOjfx21oqklpxMSVSlQG6UFnfKHAX7YNxeg2C-GSq4V8laFT57bToSq9K0=w1346-h757-no) 


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ruoYDhLFz_xkp5gpQu413rfR5n_4f1BY_Fguy4Gjnvp2fhvWjKEt0Ln3-3tBl1JwWFZt8BMpCRJcY0tOTHZsnsnpk2NXB3DeuiBlqf0kOic1G5cQD0OJN1F-Y-yyzhbKypV2dECR1jgV4UsmN6SFeyNSowi7uSZMq2wfaExKRzUL-5IcAfvIfJTLmj6MaqyJNHgHCgBv65Z-GRVKbdu8l-z_IEd6IMZQLSKhqDCaDRgJwM-8rUQlw-GcDZXS-FXKwYpbX5lRL_m3jDCf9EdIauYXYKbgv29lcBr4HZ237E65l3lH_6kHa_LNVGPqUJ5C52jRyUoJc2vOuISbKt7cDrni3gaYsLMhal3Y7e8yUG3zmxVjtntYA2zdf-FhqSQLQWiKdAYk2vgNCajbmoamZGh0IEueoAY8NrCvQPHyhT84aDKDjTwp-nXw3028NL8ayiv_MMcASiPICGNt49zhvbLhgrVYMURTSTeq0lmEqZPO5IpsC0Moz1s0ST2difoXk9oO21NLqx5x5_TrLVnxj2n0ZWRTEICl3lyBa-ZiFIgjMi7x3KbkH4EvtKW4fS6waeiLjZSTP0tG_8s_fzUt7wZVncWBplTZDMLsR7Acz3dH6eIR65JHbSV9sOF-0bONUMiBlgwSo6buua6XI8FAb4XnOig8WDVZ0U9HAMFH1HvtyJpXPB-gV7KvWV_2OP9BSgOvCtptXAcZitN8CkyjRC_XH3_6VlDGC12zXIIoYCFYLQMm2pvGraU=w1347-h757-no)


I wanted to do some shooting at various distances and found that a 30-ish yard zero worked pretty well.  I was able to use 2-inch splatter stickers at that distance pretty well.  I found the gun to be dead on at 13 yards, maybe an inch high at 20 yards, good at 30 and then it took 50 clicks to zero again at 50 yards. 

So this is what worked out to be my "normal" elevation for 30 yards:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZlN5U-yjNfZkbPwV3h9_p7q4BQYAY69S6AhhoAIMjgZM8JMGlxqtKJXBfvaa6HKeXVP0If5T-8qCOhCCl4BoqlziqIX3LzDEVB8vuORSkKToqy_uJMtanGt6eNXvIaXInkWrk0DhG9DJN2j4KuyDqBuBlI8D5O2s9Ooyum-fDT4Zp_l26ZWC4sBXumdD9YI5Fo1PVcdMCRl-5Cx3D-TZrx4NblCrTSJpaPm7FLMDyYi_FmKe6fIpMrwH8O7mcsCu1IY1kzG_FS-FEvWquF7xeuRk7Z-9-ccs3klhJFhaHSKGgqt6AhZqI6W9z4QgPy0g7I2b_awQIFLco5uJmKxo3oJiWLbm7CmgiWtvJ8x20M67d6n6t3ZoYvNgMCqa6vFYnLAs1uxwuWbd8jJlj-D84elPd6RNeMRLnzwwqMmQfSuiTrlLDmS1-ATuTmKfdxkAxY8bksSqfAACdZJ84g6FQ8TkAtxSt1R6eVs6oDxkHYJGqPlIt3CV7JCocMBIMGpgiRSZF92wkMMSHjG9Jgt_ufzZD10xyWrcKMDWjEuLgT1LUcHWr2y75b82hwL6FgbWByWAwNZkE6jdog_y75e5OGb81EKSoE0B7UB8g67SfEKUVIXpuaQ50S4KNuJywU5lhXFBCbEMgkom-11u_25UFYaMUFctOv3JhEwbwTnIc4Ci0QaZL4EzEruYRdSNkhPFUYHBmvms40UXoLIqg8jSgVrm0TpZAje79bRDWm5pFKv4JPv0TnUZcoM=w1346-h757-no)

And this at 50 yards:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N9U8omgE-SR-7Qgh0vfMk9nKk37ya631bGa-GPJEhHDoDWytlrMSd2DB7Y8hS9k8Z_bZVlq93GJsGbHW_p9sp69QwmY_ONOTyKL6BOMYuk0QsVp0rUBBf2e-HeyzOqGPjAK_i68qktIy24YoVaQU0w-uUAwz2XolORCfqsxNHp1SGCNVfAkX24-NazapNYRU6ANUAxz3QN4n5OKsVkXwgf1z0fd9jUaaWJNaGwHXdGRt3RrzHbb5ZxQeFNzQsNS-LSZKalvtP6hAgIqaKfRgBlVS91DGtRLUi3hG4naWJ0dPmFCVlM0s632fjuET4RGdldupiEQhFetXk7z0kun-rShNjSwJlZwlIN_LjFalN8XE8h4f2GHXJ9DuGCBJEwYZYQlLl71bp9-SqpSp0wT7GUcL-i46aIFrfQY91ryI1rBCEyaWqhRl8ApGDeBb2UcoR0zfWR8gQ3CL6Hyrbbz38aOIj2rb4VKOsZQuJqddrIv0Fnq9ZQS-hakW_E4VInuKfAo6Dpq-K6R58kksA4-2Kif54HCQ0gzsvpalcqQIyvJWZFVsHBdxq3sxikvLYZ-YIjofnAVFdNFMvWkZnmQYT37AfAgv-aQKuaAegQuONUn0oms--Q6pb18K1sZrG461WvfIC0120_mAS9q8XHZg7iqetDe7LsO3CiF2QSqXqgaEVmmOHSnblsrNbJmFUFOI6U68qRh3GWY-XsHJe36t3Q5TqaEHimlMY2QTT_5axylobJpskfk-a-M=w1346-h757-no)

Here are a few more sample targets.  These seem to be pretty typical groupings for 30 yards off a rest with the peep.  I found the group on the right to be particularly satisfying  :-)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZAlun0TKreezrHRNz8tUl-rjukixYM4FbhTBXTo9RMyBAc-DF7bZodgYYe_EyMNkmAZJcPIheVotOyEsNVjr9NEjPvKfsMt-2PDErw8to4Zn-beHJMSnFIeCQug3rDNygTZ0oMXxjqfSX6KiSqaP0IGjL4yy77zfOMciA5JVL_BFCAWErBhUqwke6jJOpWu9VSMnAJErFuEy_CsFfwyVGW1gOK5lNYf5co0AWHjlMCW_hA35jSBI53QXET4bt_9_WwSJFuJ8raJwrefDLxOMhANSSCOOMo1YHWbuUfGwbRZoHh5fV04QnwImF97TArfZYQXOAgVQqsXUZUir0wkBYwAr7wvr-PgbUUHJ0KLm-Af9D47r4oh-UDS1Km2MnVnXGRq8nHaSIWO5kuj0EMlCRH34w_NIBa7dpTXiQmhQVIphxRTOXwMVIfOkbx8QxhOFBG8xVS2WHe0oDwHFy-ikBZEZL3zi1t86dDCrGdimwmobhfvADkvH00dTSi9odnj-SG2JiYmozU-tIJ81P2iXnBrDfA-CqTreNhfv5RywELyG__yydHfPwLR92hWlndiHnhEz2EIjpMi9RB0J2T4tt2dA1FrxL4zJUKTtle1HhYm7_rO_EKIdMLePekzfl0ltEFpJbzkM5AeGsip4u9RzPfwz8mcvxrhunX-nC-oC7x_-CbtTDeW6yVNBtDcnoDRrZSBC6kyAu-GZC1fMKVC8WtqnfCxqEkuP7-8A6ba_PjYUxLjo6iqZ3Cg=s757-no)


And here are my 50 yard tests.  You can see the drop on the left from my 30 yard zero, 30-clicks of elevation change (left) and then 50 clicks of elevation change (right):

(http://kRhsuZT4lSAcAXS7YAyJZhNSgqk8Ya4g6qjDLY9MkyLWjFfOrA6gq9zOrUcUOYB466aZttx7pF41M2Qg_WqKd4h7CDUUKFx0K0KjDw6OOqc2snXkekMHkvmrFWJ97C2cf0wr6kYcyUdI56M2OHBkLa59Kwxp7n_SA_zWjF2DUySyvYNrWPkiJGZkUjbUF)

I then returned the target to 30-yards.  The top-left 3 shots are keeping my 50 yard adjustment and then adjusting back to my 30-yard zero by undoing the 50-clicks of elevation change.   On the right-side I took at guess at what my near zero is and nailed it.  Those are 2 shots (edit) at 13 yards and then one at 20 yards to see how high it might be:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gCYOCBoSGlYuxVVvrPnCSAH8ijEFZ3dl-ufwGxztBHwd2sMPj2dd4HYx3H8D4-HL7sMWrmnJeFmYqL6RuH-SMhq4Mm0QbY1egK6HLMePwBgeHTIPOKEP-9Lo2pskXhFfxkVJFhiRRUOEoUmEhSHaJXh8NZJkX0d_TNJ-KOdhfTNEFTNvGRKFN-oTNv3tPwASQDHuvJttlE8d1zkK_qKJHP1nOhhEuBbSr_kLG1B_4XN4OYjHJaQe70ARQCAG1IGI1Cx8-21HvKk6fd3oWdSfjyqQF4Jh9e-SdDevpjB--jknT1Lcdt3nOJzMb9bPbvpcKD27NHZSpd1Ck5DlXXqRWNFaeBmmOuOs2AGP7LNLV5y8e8l78-2YOCNJgal59dkRDbRIjASlloA2SFIBiKALI9ZaxMboN8Yr6LKvV-HPCaZnAFFAf9ePL69MAllke78XXAoRPTlJKRr-HuFq2Nh4tA1jvEKXQuaWJDP-9eHvKMUtUoXwqEBMkqEcfOdYP83StxqSNasXTIG9xIs3WDcp_MwuuC09c1Dx4zPJnAhqmeqGSaOrWswSaI2-dDRl_RFbhIJdH3HLUwi_QAg1VaWErDndLT-VXD-gBH0GQXmxO9TEu4zMJLL6N2Pl8sVqyLlajiiRgwQAYu_Y0191oijN4pDzALSShF3tK4E9vns-hxebpKL9RuLchEPu9Xwma_sGb011Dsy-cBRXLYFuvot4yXiePEZodqcP89hAJ1PbcUcLrKhgJrIeSuI=w976-h757-no)


Lastly, I did some chrony testing.  I recorded the muzzle velocity and velocity at 30 yards with jsb 18s (chairgun bc = .0357)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WkFjKra85q_Yg3EkIhx0MKTDryuK3cYflLSRbo_H0wFSB83_oYoqzX9n_sBEfhK7YLEEwMUwUgAWZ2g8Y7DqqNOWlHPF3b0liYjArpcfGklVWXFRk4Y8aHIEj1NH410rnmIA1epgoI9fof9h97sj91ZuUH0hIY6xc5j0Evkmb5i1Bo48ghHqsTfwF2R5PlmRGQmKmxia2dpRJx2XxFLufqSztne7T22IVFpoBzFxJeGL1eL5Bm8xX79brlQIH-niIMDx0Ss580DfExoYOTqImVEhGr74TexS_c0n2ARxdu90ca0UXNFJOsfrJEaH2n08FxiJgjZxKNbcyc8uXyZ-Oit5a2SQ93AZ3iLz65vkzthBzB0gtlVY2wW_qsrIILs-blyUBmZE6p3EXO2q7DlliOt6xmxsNog0cXEA5mTugK9DYjCNreBUWVp5_0E_cA7JMOAD3JUxcRw8oZG2q-C2ZSwtxSiCQxY4qPOn8hglCrFM4ec-yVioVRJ7EDR6-DVol20b4xgQ_WOrseQT5km_msAdeiwP8nQ31wH1ZnLmnDAlfRr4tgXU-V7HMTMh3qu9W66Dz45zSVxVOhv7sAKMzbfzeImlI7oUuHTpHm4zFIIc0OqbioOdoKBpT6j4LRbsWeblHnrhIb7cwlpu4qOTzS-7sV6TiCNkXHaplEUwb3Kh-BqtZ6uu_qu0nIb_6ZBilFtVpMkwdYTht8qibS1g6P6G-3CiKJqXlh9NdXnqAB6i1WdtZ7oLhsE=w1346-h757-no)


All-in-all a very fun Saturday morning!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 26, 2020, 03:24:11 PM

I just noticed one of my photos was missing from the above post and I cannot edit it now. 

And here are my 50 yard tests.  You can see the drop on the left from my 30 yard zero, 30-clicks of elevation change (left) and then 50 clicks of elevation change (right):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kRhsuZT4lSAcAXS7YAyJZhNSgqk8Ya4g6qjDLY9MkyLWjFfOrA6gq9zOrUcUOYB466aZttx7pF41M2Qg_WqKd4h7CDUUKFx0K0KjDw6OOqc2snXkekMHkvmrFWJ97C2cf0wr6kYcyUdI56M2OHBkLa59Kwxp7n_SA_zWjF2DUySyvYNrWPkiJGZkUjbUF-nezXGtTTKXVr3m2SOOtnv0fmOHROX2jHKXMcaJEnDRYzWGlD7KqpJV_31wmH52hW0vmhpyD_xjnXA1x_aDMkmlM7K5UTklObZZ_m6kwjhLyJTdyvHXQq5g5tTPb5TSsiqWvKFHpDygQusRw8S-hPGLCLqqMBlf0Ig8lDOqx2NOEsAzURKPz3FK6g2mffVMuIGoluN1mBUASyLWMGAVi8RKsSoxKwikXccv61CIqlg-b0rjamC_U_arXWvaVP5zsovwsjq1JGTs4F7X7zuEy1EJ6uP_skkSOk9rWrxDSZIC_EIXqvJOfAX5TvemPwaXtBDLbQDTleMJYJthFrOQzyvJy1WucLnR-Pegn4BXVrfl5w8ODh7d2jYdljEmuhle529y0Tw_PzhCldW-9hfDGc6eVO5oxBePw9wSkwcCixPqLRnzD_71bpsypP2AO6FudwkYThVDINkr66sBcqbG_jRbaCKFPmPy64_OQwkDOAl2M_8m6r5bnQL_ftx7y1b6E7703tIHIpBOJvbfxiywx3xIENcTObiBbGuFnm6p0PruEN_oQiTJAXdX87I=w987-h757-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 26, 2020, 04:09:45 PM

Sounds like a great time, Matt.  We had a nice day here yesterday too.  I should have set up to shoot a bit but other things intervened.

If you want to use the peeps regularly for bullseye-type targets, I suggest replacing the post with a "aperture" front sight.  That way, you can make the rear peep, the ring front, and the bullseye concentric circles and will tighten your groups substantially.  Did you get a set of inserts with your front sight?  if not, a worthwhile investment.  When I competed in small bore prone half a century ago, I was able to shoot similar sized groups with the apertures as I did with the scope.  Smallbore prone competition included 50yd, 50m, 100yd and a combined match of half 50yd and half 100yd.  One whole set of 400 point matches with iron sights and the second day was scope.  If I did my job, the scores were virtually identical for both days.  (not good enough to go to the Nationals but good enough to win a few matches at the local level.). I couldn't afford the really good rifle and ammunition to compete at high levels. 

have fun

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 26, 2020, 06:22:57 PM

Quote from: dtdtdtdt on April 26, 2020, 04:09:45 PM

Sounds like a great time, Matt.  We had a nice day here yesterday too.  I should have set up to shoot a bit but other things intervened.

If you want to use the peeps regularly for bullseye-type targets, I suggest replacing the post with a "aperture" front sight.  That way, you can make the rear peep, the ring front, and the bullseye concentric circles and will tighten your groups substantially.  Did you get a set of inserts with your front sight?  if not, a worthwhile investment.  When I competed in small bore prone half a century ago, I was able to shoot similar sized groups with the apertures as I did with the scope.  Smallbore prone competition included 50yd, 50m, 100yd and a combined match of half 50yd and half 100yd.  One whole set of 400 point matches with iron sights and the second day was scope.  If I did my job, the scores were virtually identical for both days.  (not good enough to go to the Nationals but good enough to win a few matches at the local level.). I couldn't afford the really good rifle and ammunition to compete at high levels. 

have fun

Hi Dave,

I neglected to say in the last post that I'm sorry to hear about your vision.  However, I'm glad to hear that you're able to find that clear spot in your vision  :-)  Thanks for your suggestion on the aperture front sight.  No, I don't have one but I'll see if I can locate one for sale that fits.  Today's weather was/is horrible, but I still got out and did a bit more shooting. 

I put out a target at 25 yards with 1/2 inch colored stickers.  This was a fun challenge training my eye to see them.  It was almost like I had to locate them my my right eye (non-shooting eye) and then "take over" with my left eye.  The harder I tried to "see" the dot, the  harder it became to see...  It really was a unique visual challenge.  Another takeaway was remembering to check that I had snugged down the sights   :o  I shot starting from the bottom left and found myself walking closer to the target after each 3 shots to see where the heck they were hitting!  The 2nd target confirmed that I'm still hitting a bit high at 25 yards.  I dropped it 15 clicks and finished the targets:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3vUP9DMw2QeE8PhocJoGlgqh19u_UT-fIkzLQNuC-GFRqX3ATVofRaf2y3RZ6YCUylmCFl-FCA-s5hLb4JQmiOn-HlzmTS415kiipFwnvLP_A2FDXA1UC8ijOFZ9drrUWBGwC9PJoFGgHlC2LOOP3AGWGV00maFUG2KoZhhhkA-2a506PPDAHixX6Qu5aXZbi7LTTe5FnCSdwTiWaN1Von5EkqlCVMryQUY2t5VKasTI9JlcaUcvT0Kf2smfpr5G4gAfOw9b-_-nSJu6V8XfXwpqaKe8HF4ntcpHzQSx7vS3SB5IkNpRnv3ilCk3PHrBcEsenHz4nNuniSxs8MzXGICEWkeSGyR7Nk4aXfa_nrzzr0-q7XasPX-z0jKfgS_TJJO-dAyT3I2jr9_fgtjMsNZh60qSGk2b2UaBw8ZknaO88SosjlKwCSQgJ8GMkYaCe3C3sLt5GKEGiC9vgrbbL_yDDuuZCsAW7aS75PNYOTz1TJv5hky_M-9fVA1JswEwcg1WeqNN295aNWUBzov9CD99qREp0xg7RB56DIKHaOdvgLts3mWnUoVGypIlb6VlCcyVNlBXISCR-3-cHFDF9gOaSzwg650lYLtpAM0q-3yT9fouPmXP5GKsXe8qYhbcTyzgdNdibK-j4jGVxkzqZE7IXlQidk0RWC23Psp5jmOzzMN9L3u5AaQJUfLAAw1Puwm1_ye5oZz3O5PDlvLdvoZInJKddwdMpDiS9UDGTIDb8koWF5UwDs=w963-h757-no)

Without counting clicks (just going by line markings) I tried to copy yesterday's elevation adjustment for 50 yards.  I really wanted to see how consistent the sight is after clicking this way and that way...  Elevation ended up being dead on from my earlier tests:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/KE2iwhDO0jdn1y4GXr3gM5A9ZYu7KrENOHNr_IrRFvkGiBZ7Xp3tsgl9BfJPzxmNPP6YXbit4uqp0eUpDvCecoc2vWL0Lko1-pyOCJYP9k8G-y3f6VwCc7gudXPHDigrwp-pFeohbfbzxGpvTK8tEHPczaiiP4gho7rX6DjHa375Lq44z-grru3fFwNxQITGkIe6mQTuCXjHzrbKBWuC-ZOAZqSH-wID8Fn8adj6zIg2UfrUpy_LPL7OkHQjFO7YpDZ3X6nyYYECyNvW4jr2ytkFWvUWF7PcsvB5ECxwpS7kwATOk3ctEeVlu1NEaRMlm46lYHF9bbBQI_FIl3wQA-qXba_l3vUO3kjWom2daoNizq8-LVT72p3UuQ_hFc-M7kZQzkjg9z8K8P5KoJmEELl5NmalkDosdrYCRbbVMUGve9pS4f-Py_Zhim1sL2E3Bi-kmRiG4jMlQSzXLmyqlZY2fx9QnhNuzFDaUUEk1j-mSWE2PPrUEMnsq1BNmGynQmK4lU3o95k7Kt1WdFUJ5OVsVkBQGMqda7CIYu42ot7pAf15Bo73WNWTdIYk6h875h2W1am87z1rbVulqiBnyhC3HDNufiueyZUYHtuoq19YMwdcZCde0IhSV0-uNLWBbNde6yOUcA_rL8FkKtwGsMkj5r0FuIGQS0mi6AWQBnTVzl1wZbyJ4YQih1tENH6toUymRd1Tl7k5ATAr1npqyfv85T9W09pOIEQDs2GYe-FigjxrGxGYTdA=s757-no)


This was all good fun, but the biggest smile came next  :-)  I have a small metal target and a fresh supply of beer cans that people throw into my yard...  (grrrrr)  I set up each of these at my longest distance of 65 yards.  Both the beer can and target stood out well against my backstop.  Seeing most of my target shots were to the lft of center, I changed my windage a bit then took one shot guessing at the hold over and missed.  The sound was clearly the pellet hitting the wood backstop - I think my holdover was too much.  I lowered it just a bit (so my front post allowed a teeny bit of the top of the target to show) and nailed the can on the second shot!  I hit the ram with my very next shot.  I walked down to check these out, reset them and snapped a couple of pics.  I left the can on it's side wanting to see if  I could hit the can through the bottom.   Two shots and two hits.  I can't say how just how satisfying a good day of shooting is!   

Here's what the backstop looks like and what it looks like looking back towards my shed:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BNAmVeKTpFTfGQe5i0wF50vp7cHcpaHDRAc6roFMT6b7cNsXkUFOiuG35U0Y26RMl8pLnZLyYAIAt90K1dFsXhovVWUbz0isNOg6yk3SFygYzTQd42zfwZ5RHM3DegyIXhl-WWsl6jH2g6Cl0YWyBUFLktdt3x_w8DZ0DF5_qy2uaP7ADByM2m1dAnN-8iabahz7CUBjecNnlypQxPmPPHMktuG6jT0pELlHDxIBxDUhcSP6C415BZQ6urZ0HkjhHo3Rn3G3G-MrdEF9lmsNUk0SprKwMCjupA0UP8XTeKbRv8Zj3Bv6sUPFeNCZTZvdc3EZ_Qt7QgHQ6rnQhdAoffl1X2aeevCpXlvWiO2PHzgLaFJ6WTh3ErqwCA6aak5JveF__IJf8C8ZsdZVhGlIptFUzRp4fEp391WJu_kNu47Jnwd1gUUcbtR60axLBKOdY_LnjCebRIxKg9rgmBusHo8eGcrIr_c9A0uu8o_XAktIjFC5MN-aLQHHLtUlObRGVthgNn6f0gw1iwTOQgy4XC_mqlqEyCP0aiy3BkcLxEk3Z_R3DB3ZjxtiQx0AoUh-gPu9BeigFLi7iTLR8Jj-htY-YsMsNntbUgTOW3RJ9aHfiddjoZF7A622uenHIAWrIpB5AvN_CtIgvVLUEhTTrg9uvMpnDLBLacZc0OvYixJeWo2YwWPQadL8XOunxJW1AKIm6F0GX66xd0FByhcaNDVwzMMDAvgEaOLfaEMzVwnCRHEBDKYEFBE=w1346-h757-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ob2U5sCKRV1cgwmsONS-XXGWV3R0vi6Q3ayMdZDz8LzIN1ymfw5rmZ7V1yjQZmv5X4tR1dz9pC9RKHE49oYH6k9QiPmy_mPB7DsOhPRb9Y8zgPzMy6Rj3CItIXhH70o8A9blfCOCVm9bnB25SMEqLbGivjviykPu1kfcyBe7BGHCiWfVBIKj0n0rz2_EBYByIQSzVtxGM51XITyvDdcl94Ft_0kwEKlSLKoHnY6Y-bFc8mzsR-zyV8Vlj5JRT0sugkXhC2xCMZDDKW04oG6BeExoDNzcI3nbyh15UHGQTtUweMnNd7anQfNkJe0h24gTnv9RhVWS4_20NVV7Sy7m2z7XeeCzENOhqxix22qsbjA0_acv-ZmOCVa8zHP-c-VJYSy9GbibvEDeit02QPDPseHaC9jMT7tLyyanYlJIfeWFFtkmdM70Yvrct7vqWB58s3xvyRFnOLWo57CTl5T7rGCPo4SiTHm_0GoWCcAHNkXR1rBk3gOD06UkZEPVJeKeWc0Yv7gqA8mEFk5Q23YnaB7TCFGp9vaxFKIDEPHHcqPW2qXygQKMZlDigVjf5DJY1dlVE107Mh8gAPy8mqIYHeL9jVKmjgbXSnArvt2g4CrkXF1dMg4DPpgDA4RLjJsuscPIN2f31lueI9Ma7H4mLT1phg5hM83dUAXG5Hgr9NloN2oVrT--wBejImTukvKE5wFzyG0outHpfS5cn3kAbMgOmq4j7-i-5JSKtUq64eFroXxJLkbR29U=w1346-h757-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3k7gNsmTSHFofinvWA2aezg7AcLpaBiSf8jg2kYeaqNFVCeoahSwlWiy93nTqHQ6GUsDnwxB0BbvTQ4j09OeJy2RTJCUXFvq7yGjYeVHKHn_VFNjXEWt3KO3aXh_qBjpsfLewcGid50-Af2n4fNgytbML21qdKalU8OhCPo45gMMrmDbgII-XPODBR92H5qTfUL6fzHo66fdJIcajNMlY4wK22mT9hAXaFmPq1LpH_PmeGzTnd3N3BjUwI0JrbTfXZlX4hJ1jh-r7lmShAf0GWx4hCvBn3e8fscgtrt6gRjcevq76qi40zDuop97Z3cu4jdMN9686AvUpgo3533ih0-fP5JzKso9ueD4eu_aPnVEvsZR3cK7p3hSbgxN3YfplLDwUxVrk1DMFTr8hoktXJmSRWyJKebNNT7WNa0kS6GYZvqHlGbauTpfKfhoytIyrrfFVUMxpruyqLwi_PtJjZ9l0KJxD1FYDpXZxfWQh9PKXZX8Nf916SgiSYFaoBSdxjCyKNQNrpM91ABf88wSw3o4k1kOR6mlSNQFIODayCzFQks6SP8x3lWcBd7XbW3nBDo90FlfG-DStEWQ6wpj-dRe69m99eONJbXO1dAfal-c4D1bU4lw24TpFfV_a-7mw2F_KFWC9ZcZuVjVIlMhVZP4w3TWHsAUqON8izTb8JK1q_GYr1MHm5pKgnN0iftl7gca3uj3RTVM2O-llnjSZ6FuvVpH9d2rLrE1yLKdI0J_ErbL4JrHTaY=w1346-h757-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 26, 2020, 10:34:03 PM

You should be able to find a set of inserts to fit the sight you have.  Champion shooters supply and Brownell sell such.  Just checked!!! Google Diana aperture sight inserts.  A huge number of options appear!!!  The gotcha with the inserts is that some have different diameters and don't fit.  Be sure to get the matching ones for your front sight. 

If your front sight is a Diana you might be able find the correct inserts.  I have seen that sight before but don't know what exactly it is.  I am sure that someone on the board will know.

If you are hitting that well at 60yds you are doing quite well!!!

Regarding cleaning the grease off.  Some of the carburetor cleaners are too aggressive and may damage the wood finish or even the rubber washers.  Be a bit cautious on that.


Cheers.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on April 28, 2020, 07:22:31 PM

Matt;

I am glad that you have returned to the spring-piston world.

The muzzle piece you have is the "flat base" model that takes all DIANA "Korn-Tunnel"s , there are over 60 types of inserts for that front sight, from apertures at every 0.1 mm from 2.5 to 4.0, to pyramids, posts, and barleycorn grains. You can also get custom made inserts, those are expensive, but if you see clearly, they are blast.

Your gun is doing good, but I am afraid it was modified without truly understanding how the sled system works.

In your pictures, you also show things that are not quite right:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9430/S42yY2.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/9740/NR2ooL.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5720/WAbJYm.jpg)

Replace those "smushy" rubber washers with original ones (call UMAREX, or PYRAMYD AIR), and then tighten the stock to not more than 30 in-lbs.

Also, you may need to replace the front trigger guard screw if it is not holding the metal bracket that holds the trigger pins in their place (first picture), or perhaps the bracket itself is at fault, dunno. If this part is not working, let me know and I will send you some external retaining rings for your trigger pins and you can do away with this bracket.

You are shooting well with peeps, as well as you shot with the low mag scope we tested (for those of you that have not read that test, it is here: https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/how-can-less-be-more (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/how-can-less-be-more) ), but I would hope that you would do even better with the Discovery scope.

In a well adjusted 54 there is really no recoil felt by the shooter.

If you need more help, let me know.

Keep well, healthy and sane (I do not need to tell you to shoot straight!)







HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 28, 2020, 09:48:14 PM

Hello Hector,  Thanks so very much for your insight into this rifle.  Good news, the previous owner located the sight inserts and will be sending them along to me.  Again, this is my first experience with a peep and I'm glad that I have not been changing too much to begin with  :-)

The photos were from my first time taking apart the gun and I had removed the trigger guard screw not understanding what it did as I was taking off the stock.  I did reassemble it with that metal piece screwed in properly (I think this could only go together one way.)

Thanks for letting me know about the softer rubber in the bushings. I'll see if I can procure the proper ones.

I continue to loosen the sled adjuster a little bit each time I shoot.  And the recoil is certainly feeling less now than in the beginning. 

I'll probably keep the peeps on for a while...  I'm excited to see how the other inserts work  ;-)   But yes, I'll put the discovery on again and it'll be interesting to see how it performs now vs. during my initial testing.

Thanks again!

I'm happy to report that this rifle seems quite repeatable.  I didn't have much time to shoot today but I got out for a little while.  I'm finding in good conditions I can hit a 2" stick on target at 53y more often than not.  Out of 15 shots, I had three that fell outside of the bulleyes:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GBD4FlTpZurSSwwPKzoI383Q7PhNmGiz_4DQIUir-cuLuZ4AEWcpsnQrL6F2qCDcmP7ZI2Q-XxJuDAMrOP8CKMcUzQtwUZhBq5qqFmt3iUKWGQ7AvQqbFHNEnhUNbnmLatQuTctCjR6UfeWkMGgBmJX59vh-gjvkssurgGiQXxclpOq-26kOHbbdi40WOlZkAOGnSf5hazOrQNlt1UW4HTmm3quIP44vBYd850rT8mGCBS679y8iUJsYDp_NUtpKdyPOQ0xC2d8PQeHRczGtCeDQz7nlSzmosIZVpyhZ9hILL7Qzp2mV8DMDUmilb8AALO45rB2Tb4JTAbZIsvCf_mD8QThA4gEUYKxMMIMTKNoW1y_DHwyVtwAMVpnS5g3D106-FvaqfeaBAMidHUS_CSj9atj6TIHR-G8e661wbEdTeIOdElqfMcyGnkRZvcteZ1-Woa7r86XvUsudULiWVDxfg4UCCIEEqJy3HVqkLiJidbR6IhWXcFYlU4Vzku5cFEo80kmZS9PAKxfw58DdqIhOlvyHKuhIGCX55UakuCAwBoo_-5oI16vZVzCcGP7h3VpFtOJFMv51nD2JiibJ9bA_U_pjh9k0qsikCqavZpZ4PEhhlC2R36PYSyixgwHs5SItORaTgLsgczdtPBjwuRTjuWfaADAI1DCdo8xUOFkSUQRIIPmiIqnGaJehLKtg0uQgCSpO8c0lYgKa6dXMjiopccTPyRt_jisyB-mTcf_oFGLKZqeAzPc=w987-h757-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 29, 2020, 10:00:56 AM

Matt: 

On the rubber washers and torque.  Hector suggests no more than 30inlb.  I experimented with my .177 54 and found that the range of 20-25 seemed best.  I found that inconsistent torquing caused the point of impact to change a little bit.  When I first got it, I used cowboy tight (as tight as you can get it and then another quarter turn!!!) At that level, the rubber was fully compressed and the action   was rubbing the stock with bad results.  I really think the key is not tightening it so much that the action can bind. 

I noted the thick rubber too.  I thought I had mentioned it in one of my notes but must have accidentally deleted that text before sending.  I am really glad that Hector noted it!!!! 

Dave

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on April 29, 2020, 03:01:59 PM

Dave;

30 in-lbs mentioned is the LIMIT.
And in here I am going to rant a little. A LIMIT is a LIMIT people!  Don't always think that more is better. Work your way up and see what happens. Trying to "push the envelope" in everything is not savvy for your wallet.  ;-)
EOR.

At some point in time, as Matt advances in his exploration of the 54, he will need to "tune" the sled and stock screws to the pellet and the power level he has settled on using.
Right now, at about 700 fps with the 18 grs JSB's he is on the "sedate side"(under 20 ft-lbs), when he wants to get into the 22-24 ft-lbs region with lighter pellets (My favourites in 0.22" are the 16 grs. JSB's and the Predators in the same weight), then he will need to get into the "fine print" of this marriage contract.

20-25  in-lbs is good for most guns, but Matt will need to do the exercise once he decides what he will be shooting, and in the case of using light pellets (14.3's), then a bit more works better, BUT never to exceed the 30 marked above, as that is the point where the OEM washers compress and become pretty useless.

HTH





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on April 29, 2020, 03:28:44 PM

Hector:

Thanks for amplifying our comments with a much clearer explanation. 

I noted that you said a maximum limit of 30inlb and was trying to emphasize that.  There have been numerous discussions on the rubber being compressed too much as you well know.  When I was stocking powder rifles and trying to make them stable for longer range shooting, I did use much higher torques but learned quickly (from you probably) that it wasn't good for air rifles. 

You might remember that I tried using the adjustable washers once and found that they made the action sit too high, to the point that I had to use the curved tip of the trigger rather than the shoe.  They went into the parts box and the rubber washers came back.

Perhaps Matt and the other poster (can't remember exactly who) who have measurable recoil will find it has gone away if they lighten up on the stock screws?

Cheers!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 29, 2020, 04:13:23 PM

This discussion is such a good great example & reinforcement of why I take and post a lot of photos.  I never would have thought to consider the rubber bushings used in this gun.  But by chance, the kind folks here who have "been there and done that" are sharing their knowledge and (likely) informing me in such a way to reduce the likelihood of me making bad decisions in the future ::)

And since I am not the best note taker, I use these photos as a log of what I have done/changed and when.  Google photo albums have been the absolute best thing for keeping track of my shooting (chrony results, pellet testing, playing with scopes, etc.)  And to be honest, my family does not have the least bit of interest in this hobby so I guess sharing what do and learn here brings a certain satisfaction!  I also hope that other folks who own similar rifles in the future may also benefit from the details and conversations we have here  :-)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: fwbsport on April 29, 2020, 05:21:04 PM

Yes the photos I really learn more by sight and most do, and the torque limits had been pointed out before I know.  I had wondered what to do if my screws got loose from Hector's torque, but all screws are showing the same "clock faces" they had when I got it.

By the way, Hector, the certificate came!  Now I want to know about "Connecticut Custom Airguns" and the number 27 Von 30, etc!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 30, 2020, 02:29:23 PM

The winds were whipping with gusts well into the 20mph range today.  I thought I'd take some of my lunchtime and chrony three different JSB pellets.  These are only short averages from 5 shot strings with the 18s being the first and then last ones to measure.

JSB 18.1 / 685 fps / 18.9 fpe  (10 shot average)
JSB 15.9 / 778 fps / 21.4 fpe (5 shot average)
JSB 14.3 / 783 fps / 19.5 fpe (5 shot average)

I was pretty surprised to see how big the jump in speed and energy was between the 18s and the 15.9s.

These were the winds I was shooting in:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/BGn9sNIjPGCSDoQw06riu7bQLvnuBIIGTWkHTLT7rs9opYMqbQWYZ9dZgfno0da-wCg79g-iZAzBgUYi2ICs-8m4Q7fa9hXFJhJ3i-PTYhKGvcTjr761kW5ekV0GueT4E8lBOAKBwso4aTbpwD06QjUF4j-y7P1-G-8TwkIR_d5KN4NXOmjwnp_Js5lmHoHllckrj7SpFZXtc_SGBhVmTaAOupghfvyiM7yxWimEb15l1rh734_hb7j6C8IwvhWkNq7f4cdIQF2Imq4WAPr4s65nTcZsCfCRcRhFWNN7QAHwhOaL-JMkUSe4gSzhrSt2JRdety0uuNMsNvZ_JdLZhwaGwhEbh6qiR1LXuWcdd2_iIMiHmZXJDULl2kBbHSZ1gBsO_9IC-14PttxldUygiMjwArX8wth2nL77IGVTs2VDh22B1mq6qL54UH1dVyN8MOAlV0U4Y8nA064Vz8S3-Gu_5X_6Vu3w8Z92L33c8b1y4ZMBEyW-LXfB-ds0dB9lVWjfkY4Dqa31N2NKmki5orKPXO44yB9W-DFCATjZzdNoM-icuSCowJAwy83uSS9SU2xLDGFCadxZoWbLiOkEXHvPLLJ-HHVyIiqELjgS6cjp2J3lVBqq01xOBltFbJ6L1eA80URHQDC_HnTR-esw8mZk5mzQDYd_FKcOkut997JnBiQ63a3tDf703uaDSNkfuFiqQ3mWftwkY1cTdMw5qu1y2PoG8bVDjCa9pbmZmqtbeanyAEBmc912=w1666-h937-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/OEcrHceMJfTudibpwvswVZNGdq6mAZ8qzJ1FIB4EGIeqWLV_yHAfJerfxIh6AdkiA768ui9HNEEy6xOUc5xoTUgXPt4-HBFLWDsCjOBiGKIXzHqL_jbfxSzoBiN4Ze0k2-j0m1gRsTQnjPLWuKt4d69-GJ2U6Kc-xPY7Vx-r8uIJWQX9BKcQghrlqTdw_Rqm9kr1p8icniav3VWrmyCJ_03wX7R_JDA-9IR4tikT-wF4bcAdEncfp8NdJx8UNFhuSsM1QctIWmTabSB-nBmXPzd0BumBtUYnBnZFaHyWY0VGy5kvDYoPC6dNUm2HUTQwIy9IalJgVTSNNSkkQ3DxDfTN0vi2OgLKxTRc_mVc404VN6S_rd-ldxSy8G5E8Cj3q9yXLGfjP-vXPWJ1kT1QBGfMmE1KXsIrLWZaLH5y3K288QierLRKNa8p3Yv7Y0B7oXfGsXcByv-cfiOjbMM8t88IftiM00XCTnWUUe9zhW618G29Clz2KHkCLo1SlIhDZGqAKfEQPCLtDgUKKW7b24yf672yKYWxo2liPApE4BgTeBU7Dga5U3BI6XzmV4kzlT7Gs-m02-kiWS5ZfWy1CC9VohLXj7J_nStsnOspLcC4VX3s2awaFu0DyEP6fjxdSILwEtlG3YnP292yTyHDHmdLEpaoMGSCmNksR2qIcNw69y-vAt9o2j3j0wOlLAU=w1666-h937-no)

Target was at 25 yards.  14.3 on the left, 18s in the middle, and 15.9s on the right.  I accidentally grabbed an 18 when shooting the right target  :-0

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/QAMPfkBI_Un6uTIrG3ltWgn7evfNo-_IHvS0d-R4nTUTqoVbnhOBIPCX4pAn0PeudlJbsjNoxEGsgFVtOKnF5vuo097MmMZQPk8CA17o9WJDoxGMs0MKduPCfSfBvlmUWvkU5siGHX9TVVQS6xZPg6RUyFliATRxU_h_AGlNMizES8l-4YXBjquVcZuUtGdA73vAPN16Zp7NHmViy26CLVhBAskcnINwsF1pKjvhdXn7fPK6UGwZAI2-yDapzEZQLScZ3Waft3eJy-rq09RLAoV0EoKgPW_klbm1I0Bvn9gKDmiAInd1uuI87Q3hnvzYOHMG1hepCEeFi41nLkLrjG16T4HWXG-LlIAwG9tIAaZoNKMsGbclBMgyLf0-fn4iziSUHEIqsRl1N1xbIlvp3jsigxTIgmrgZ4qgUe22N3mFIFcC5eGCLV3gK98BLZ2QXwLIUHbzbsoX8L7gkfNiF7Kel60XI3cF035tLpd5RHEhIj12pwk3UmwV6qbnIFXFZIfMQABYPLRhq9_--sHNirp4LHoRdG0Z-_N0-KANv5H2kV6JBTyLXngezZ54Hj7kYCeY3gwCOSvQOD_F1V5oWfLkYT9BIeexfoId_MVf7_s5q7tmOkjp4K554EBzkKQshKV1XtpsVdYvVxky1_d40wy1d7G-9KsNk0KMlPB0Lynwa5rB5TwSqWH0criTVAVDc2iNiX4svm-vbNVuLc8vXvuOKK8DQcxn5VuoiwB4WzOle_FcfXqxvGub=w1666-h937-no)


And the final target after shooting the 2nd set of 18s.  I also adjusted the peep 12 clicks to the right for that group:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/HJMOlHBnBFbGj4RTIwG9EUs5FDjsZh0ZuVFUMyVpChkkRSlCZ-zbmD8JQf-3pWsq_OJoriwcqHV080P_KiVoDqax0cvSnfufDFra7SmkcQgNsa6OEdXuZwuYxyOfhUPviNXxaxizC01Dz8KXsXQHfRUCVqSp5onilNQyZiF9ZjUOBP1iqH6ry20BjJ2QWKAAahD5iGrjaD_GJUpHfvuf5LXh4exHH9VsuEEK6-TpPpGeNUBLwcvT-VsFvdF-8sX5uf_aJg-A3PfSgPEUIls_iDPPqKfKHECXhclkJ9Qv7gqM1gNbY2hjOzqVAUcSNb2e9qoopS32Ox_QZ9K1LKL3MQ-k9t7mGNMwHY3QjJx8UhaQ5LenPVWau1u16CnDCByqJh17YGR4bPKjetI6w3w9K0mMvOokFzlell4T1-ZYm3649aoPMJDM743bKf5y5cqiGgKKdP9xoD-HY67lhZPNKw5rfZcxa3a9_5vbhXQwZaDdFLYhOB-c7SUM6A8jgsCOINMF0KFjtgBv7LNJzZ9kWFDZfNuAFpa7b14Tq2qxRAy6z6jzzYFc9XsLcWJyzh7LljOklxP0p-I9b-wAeklrG0dXi6lg8W1QXVGJ0MO9XvuBhlBiJvwsuaeP-q23Jf1gLToJUzBKxjcp1QCTfJq7gsE-65WPXiuREMWqRWX7_l8qnKykg_bhzl_Ibt3fkAbP4e91ymZAvyRS2EE-O1_ujdRAf2gVv44Fb1k4R_xs0W12uoC_cwRbudaJ=w1176-h937-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on April 30, 2020, 02:51:47 PM

Nice, Matt, thanks!

And this is one of those cases that illustrated precisely why we decided to offer the HPM in the AirKing Pro.

Matt's gun's powerplant seems to like the 16 grainers (as most rifles I've seen), it shows by achieving a better yield with the 16 grainers than with the 14 grainers; the TOP yield is with the 16's; BUT the best accuracy is with the 18's.

THIS is the typical situation where an HPM can allow the shooter to shoot at the power level that the powerplant can develop, and achieving a higher precision/accuracy with the pellet of choice than would otherwise have been possible.

Again, thanks!




HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on April 30, 2020, 03:47:40 PM

Your're welcome Hector!

(It was such HARD work doing this too!)

 8)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 04, 2020, 11:48:33 AM

The rifle's previous owner found and was kind enough to send some different front sight inserts and I had a decent window to play with them Saturday morning.  I had been shooting with a post and decided to try this circular insert to test:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hbNYXUXQKgX9PV6d5Uuv3YrfjCt9feiQEQlozEenAMCHetYuc1ROAUQzheQ-uTq0tb82jn5XZO1MB4yzHALserbdR6cLopUaHspvLjjyvgQhL8tQ-34orfHcelLBkJ1sreUuMzI2XbiR2DCALrfX3A1kN0Y-H8J5-_GS73xQkewg48wr5mZRV9hkRyKrP6-B5niNts-rDq8q2E4v0tRpRmi5OwkUIJnry31bhIQUNw0sNOcRocIcvs-DU3cphaAcTQArWNG-3I1NeSv5qBnWp2HpFnsDOSXC9MDjWj4y_YVBBXkRkVPrVZO4ofY3S0YQhYLHSuFOj1aSRUZzhmC-5ORMca4MCzff-Y9jQptLSvxD-1d3QeeZcsZvFgAYXymal7C0BAnXDUTAlW8xEG2SmHQynDz2Fqjx6eWMuHzW6O5aJ6B8iIhWmKD1-oUj8KX6-C4wvkdhizfsuSGUXaxU8whIopSqPx57D-583lZbuQG_6RPRhU2rwYQg8W3NjLKNqYE_aQFZBBfoOEKN1-KJaQvMYjU2VDE6fRCWpvFqZMOVZiOPoZFOq5109ujxwefdMuhWy7bzeWyLX5VH6TWAGxXvighXaJVC4oY41CdPIP9nhL_X-M0gm1WPksXWmr0Vp1Oxw0YuCxwtJ8hz_JYZx7nRNMeUNfsA6aPLgHvYOQC7I-Ivf7NESfibthVRcH84ThQGGeb6CPEMet-MgwOhA34Lc-57ZpjJeHjh8waeBif6CzQ0ddT2QSY=s888-no)

I should also say that this has been my first experience with a peep sight and this type of front sight so I'm learning as go...  The big takeaway is that I don't like any of my typical targets with these sights.   I found that both my 2" splatterburst and the little 1/2 inch stickers both became harder to see and get centered as I shot more at any given target.  I'm now seeing the value of targets with large amounts of black in them. 

Here's my 1st test where the top two targets were with the exiting post site and the bottom two and middle are with the 4.0 circular sight.  These are with jsb 18s at 22 yards, rested and 5-shot groups.  I did make some click adjustments between targets.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/whlY8IPUAO03xU9wC1-UVf_n4dz_8SS3itjqEUV_B_7LI31dYWHCFy0QGiE1XGzqcLrrAZnF2UYjk84Tj1BOTgSllzutV8eo6MR_4MGmr2_LYiec5uz976PKmQE_hK4dGni5TZWOxqPk5mTywVTUTRfDuHPxRrCYBv1psjPUlwXSxmgf_aBYMD5zIrjzi8WMz8baFfBlzDIEn__vQbYBmlAdQg5DOeZb7xusKmKeaZTYhyymJDEmkeLNN0yRv1hpJMfhoavy-PLHjajQEtxq8shTfcjkx5aH4OLqTFVY2mjxSkuRNKjZJMb-olry_uPTwYgjTnCj5grHUu6wrtsN28UdY12i5qabo7izzoBFcIUwL02bv4MTj2pshuhoTAEXOMLCZ67o92ECIxAP-d3vhQHNJx5PniCnre6lhkVhbBqCCkg3kKrcF5RgsQCoyrfTxpW-4mk5cr4_YO-7PogUEoZDShJv8i10jRDXdjL2n5Qr9atGwJiAifMkb24ihgVhKSfra6kdhc2esP7EcWYEygTYWwOKek_boVoY91QButDlbTPPdPONU_b1304ORst-KH6Dj8FYJQKD6VSaKWTEe9eXtQcVpKe60_TPhWRO5db_Bhak9mySfq3LKbdDiQXNf66rDR6RQjK_JYqyE2ZZE2JNyrriJsnf4TjBoldmFOKI8ykGgF4h7WnNTKPpJRFXVkdxPBwboVIneDXyWqAvOkr8DXaL3OYjFF2w0-oWJuzXhnRsrd2PzoJ8=w1203-h937-no)


And this was my next target which are all shot with the circular front sight.  The top two bullsyes are with jsb 18s and the center + bottom two are with jsb 15.9 pellets. 

** Oops! **  I think I have been mistaken here.  JSB Express are not 15.9, but are 14.3...  I'll verify what's in my tin and correct this post as-needed.

As I shot these targets, my I found that they were REALLY hard to see and then center...  I probably won't be shooting these targets any more with these sights...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/RFPJBrja9rDItppTd32WjRqWkDDYOknXULfgLolT0_M1chSOunCQlr-2d0h6GpI0sm2deVLKsgFE0MCaq41tUCQhPeIM9ukKAFq1VD9VzTOQzkQlNijU4YPZ-vPMSgi0H9IfaC8H5fWLkXX8dhZ_wczkSrfkva2La_vgYuK_NXduPfvUtUwaJfsWMlumLddT8wXwpZRattcOKdv8vFO_k8gIgikrVFJCkktgFTqTRn7D3N1SYJprQi5yj-2rWMGl67gYkjMG-KnhUGvLS81TLVKg-u5x9WlQckL-vOHTqgMunRsgCbT9EkyIOGlvTb47KfuQH7-VYGB_PC_UbX3A34q-UDcc_BpfS1ocqBQP3JAYyoAu1Pvxddscu0hL6nSJDiEcr6nFnWRf3lCI-yF8CIMGLC1lCNgRaGrOakDsfma-GH1cZ8Xr6ojvxyWEIIQJexkpEIIc6NYiSYjave0MCCSUc-SO_guXQVddc9ftwcsAy3FI7tnv-QGOLl6Wld5TGMytcYmlhvSqm5aXzLBS2P_u2egNIBZafRNNoMPLAEOv0K_hVx6JYrCULk_H2qzqYWPBJ90bDq_Vd8os0RAq1qcJdssXYELjX4TSP16kGDNbNxsrUBZPSU-BZ-OM3SiDjlKHNzI2XZhmPkuDVwZ49G8dXn6bL0jmQ4RPrbZrZ5I84MI7HF08ICAV9fbtknMsIr3tyEj3Gn4jZYt5kS-qb7AUInGNxlbA_A9VgCbvNCkyI3CppyXXrI43=w1556-h938-no)



 

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 04, 2020, 02:33:31 PM

I'm correcting my velocity testing with JSBs in the d54.  I had mistaken a smaller tin of JSB for 15.9s - they weren't Exacts, but were just a different style tin of Express pellets.   

Here are the true MVs for various JSBs:

JSB 18.1 / 680 fps / 18.6 fpe 
JSB 15.9 / 720 fps / 18.3 fpe
JSB 14.3 / 785 fps / 19.6 fpe

This tin of 15.9 are by far the tightest fitting pellets I have shot so far.  And I found some different targets to download and print.  This style is much better suited for the peep and circular front sight than any other targets  I have shot so far.  Here are some 5-shot groups at 25 yards.  Left target are the 14.3 jsbs and the right are 15.9 (no sight adjustments from previous session at 22y).

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/AKqRViBttR0t0LPxXX_ObsF85MZoA0sDMWUhCKSTl9jW0O13doPdcQ-7uFDR3RC9fxMj1xOYkvo0CYUOyTTluO-nhdpFWR-vyP78KP5teS7j4jkRc0R64VjzKhuVkERWGM1slIrdl0RcvOMJ6ioq5EB9MraOvoZ8U53DSNdzFWs-Q3kbJ4FE09ykLuBPlpFiCol0ugIoUh1F2FLEC6obV_cQwovdnock8Z99S9sB-QRiXj651rsWsv8r9kzJlZEv38GngYbgiftxQY-Xj_PKbwPuhorMZCLDzjgKJ3Z_mjlhRFyvDO7SHygEnpwyR6_lD9_jaX2904Q_8uIfE66uvFZlm-DRn6Ktb0nZnWe3q4IcfUfNXQmNIZBrCY5SR6Q1msFUS3EXm0GCcvfbt9--nyNtpX7zVFfKqThCVCXYYHOWB6UN4YEpPMtimniLH5h10pOMS82cYYiZr9KtnPk5nYI59wolz_fm7E8bejXPuMc6Y4GtGtriH2hyKjC8LcrtZBeOv6pJknGXHy8zIvxam5wkOxg-uv4KG9f0-DnYlN4z6Gfn_j2aHs-SSNsljiLOybcPtiyymo2ddJcVyecQt57sK2A_DO7hleu4QYqxmR-BKPE7XYTjVnFZXUN8_tPzSWNYtbWUJnzVgcWx5O-i-OanJ2eodaQ0W3plyiU7JSjKnWHAci8xsGPzPDSTIKA=w1666-h937-no)


And three more groups with the 15.9 where I am playing with the sights:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i5UaixbcH7rz810tqa-UP2xz39Scbl0s0ec9WlG_A7SxEi8pBx08At6KNaadSTboluedDz3EOPeXHCOLsyfN7lE_BUrOEEeMqhvbuDPCwnU7JugG5TmArLXl8dlerx4d1VMGOS_9yaR8C1E1rBMwflVPYdt53eSQkkxiq6LooQ2ItHzpVcR6f_KsggWMV9c--a0n2XUBpbLXogx-iA8jPFE3LQpvSHLzIvryVA8NcNVaTcez0OYqbSHFv8cb2uOrwV7fhlsVQZi5Iv9Hx3I5DllLQyqzQoZ2QosF_EcpjtAX_pR8A31dlSxz-D6qsr33-o6OXpH9uszM0zCGwJVSOtjfibGh2OItiQgZd7TCESh3QNb1CPYEztBttLjXy-ve3eZICNWAP58zUp5RBiTprhF_LUCpxMe3zcXhKU_c_GJJZ2XUgN9FHoAUiqKh8SFkylnaR6WDjAqwd5m4niTok_9tMSgFXicr9adF8pvYyQnBWvvDBLo5mwx0kNg3v3WPQb8yf0ciPiJKtz-Sk9Es1Z0hmABCFp-TgDGD1_OfnO64oYRajyQorZ3pKUjTAPQt-0_Nxls7qMZzm4X9sLELsga_AIdXlbFQaGEOf5SqIPiooJeX7BgytiM6WRjPrmG7N8psZ-sYzEWHz4Xh_76J3ZiCJDLvg3iWmp1-siPLPhATzZrfGIbmbhCENrQWZGw=w1666-h937-no)


This is where I ended up with the elevation adjustment with the 15.9 at 25 yards:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WeYW_RZQgeiGJyNJ_wHnU72AspGCVcKDIQefH-UHNoqbljiEq_bIQefcPk3TgHOXDIuL9W_JciOWCtMgCr-M3wKTjHbvR9moaIocm6mLS9bc80y4W4iGaQOjXT8lbFQNPrPadQEtSeMLlZeHAWuwULm8Kv9cBv4SufMsqlTd2M0FGn0oaabOZhT8Z6BDK-k47HdUJASssLHqosWN6VsQJ-g8l85RBnihKcxPTxSXHGipx_hdrRCjDt5vqF9SU7EtL_yNTv7r_hEEzqIpNpqHSC4yd9sT63NL4u_Lku5jEomFEKleSLTyEM9Zti4VrS7xcXrvPmNn_thMzc4RxnKVqmUXXKXcc2uvmEWwRXrRWdZ0ebT8xEx8Lkd8rHEoBkBtua9pVrLzF8tESZkHu_xUXs7qL9jQefvmInfE4x3ai6dMojOq0zJrqNUCorhiTxdUkKsnRvKsmYl0tiJIFb-erN0i5x58HXEyWbG3wsEHCWlfOgXoFYHus64E94rTsjhsbUGczaFKbdGnT0YjbFwm1rJ4RoiQKo2i0U-Tc9QTkLyLhgPu2m-utMnbgt4rYCha9I54kKUVHooGBLP15kScPv42aqR35kBsRy_3aS2qeWJIyhdepourDGj-Hy1KK4v5uN8Pp6tJ3DF6HFZVpVDfbkAP__7oKIquVk6nsudcLOZzPr7rpcjxDgYsqLKruNrsZpNYtt7WR5V0BKwCtLPWejpH4ve5eJfH8kY_NR45UnH8w2DD3QLU9xcm=w926-h937-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on May 04, 2020, 02:48:21 PM

I see that the groups with the aperture were smaller so I think you are on the right track.  The need is to get the aiming point just right. 

Suggestions:

Try some of the 50' NRA small bore targets or 25yd pistol targets.  The idea is to have a black bull to shoot at.  Similar to the ones you just shot!!!  Nice work!!!

If you can move your backstop or your shooting position, adjust the distance to allow you to have a small but easily discernible ring of white around the black bull.   

If you use a post, try to get a bull that at the distance are shooting that allows you to cover the lower half of the bull completely with the post making the aiming point look like a round-topped post.  That gets your windage position centered well and the elevation consistently at the same position.  The second approach with a post is to make it look like an arial letter i with the bottom of the dot just touching the post.

If you have a printer that allows you to enlarge the print, I suggest starting with a black 1" dot in the center of the page and increase it 25, 50, 75, 100, 200% and try looking at them on your target frame to get the concentric rings of black - white - black with a white area you can easily see. 

If the guy had different apertures, try them too.  A later addition would be an adjustable iris in the rear sight.  It is amazing how much adjusting that sharpens your vision. 

Have fun!!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on May 04, 2020, 03:10:52 PM

Matt;

There are apertures as small as 2.8 mm's, so it's a question of finding the right "hole size" .

;-)

The original set of 4 had a 3.0, a post and a barleycorn.

HTH




HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 04, 2020, 09:39:53 PM

Dave & Hector, thank you very much for your input on this.  It has been a really enjoyable experience "getting to know" both this rifle and method of sighting :-)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Yogi on May 05, 2020, 04:40:20 AM

Matt,

Just to add my 2 cents since you are pretty new to using peeps, FOCUS on the front sight!  The rear and the front will line up.  The target will be a little fuzzy...HTH.
Yes, find the front insert that will have a little white showing around the black bull.

-Y

PS see if this link helps?
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/05/peep-sights-part-4/ (https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2020/05/peep-sights-part-4/)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on May 05, 2020, 07:59:06 AM

Matt, now that you have a handle on the peeps and are doing so well, may I offer some advice on the peripherals.

As you may know, from past experience or others, when you get to the finer details of serious target shooting there's one thing all of us have to deal with... our eyes. Specifically, optimizing their use. Whether shooting with a scope, peeps, or open sights we only use one eye to "see" the target, or more specifically as Yogi said, our front sight... BUT it is important to keep BOTH eyes open. This is not easy. It's not what we usually do and doing it while focusing on putting a hole in our target is just one more thing to remember.

To add to what you may already know about that, below are some ideas to think about. Personally, I've used make-shift eye covers when I was competing in pistol and silhouette, and often at the range I merely had my flip-up scope cover turned sideways to block my off-eye. Any way you use is better than either shutting your off-eye or squinting. It makes a difference in your results.

Since I cannot post links yet as I'm a newbie, just search "off-eye shooting," "off-eye cover for shooting," and variations thereof.

FWIW, your adventure with peeps was provided to a good shooting buddy who I have long tried to get to try them. He's younger and has stubbornly stuck to what he knows, and knows well btw. He is going to get them now for one of his 22s. My words apparently weren't enough, but your story did the trick. :)

The peeps that came on my Blue Streak make it my goto when I'm hunting pests or small game. They're faster than a scope and have have none of the many factors that a scope brings that must be accounted for in an instinctual shooting situation. Just acquire the target and fire. Done.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 05, 2020, 08:05:45 PM

Yogi & Jeff, thanks for your suggestions.  I did a bit of shooting today and found the lighting (late afternoon) quite challenging.  The sun was kind of low and to my back.  The sun was incredibly bright on the target and I was shooting from inside my shed where it was quite dark.  This pic does not do the lighting justice, but even with a decent sized target and a smaller aperture (#3 vs. #4 which i had been using), I had a heck of time getting a good sight picture.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WUuSbuLPCin2srKYI0ym0DdhgioXUYW_wUrDISBYg2s8pPAWFJTQXdlK_i3m9wlXot7VsacMaH9N7BCWDnoLVTXD8xGRPlLaWERbLyb3ZGA1nxuzZgFM2w0MkJfte99waqaGjECy4njasK35AKY5VN1dzVtpKmztsu9M5euFs5kQOcd46t_dg2CtlfkJEjUYeHa6jTdrfc21JWYKCKsuMypPNGM-Q7Mxoh4O-OMVI37fpwrB_FeWBnSGZOJtt2cWyFTL1aLLU2InU25N5s25H6o_qfrVeF_cUxI2A9hs-485jtfHHGsxThIn7c5z1tdL30ebVGgS2GzqjcF7RrvSqPpatlUBed9noqLq1FPoIBwL-thq4LGHQt3H3NrT7DI0QUj4auev0QB2jMG_lbep-Yo_hCrl_DZOPue8R0oNhddG-yyj3fck4rtg0YfsmYvWSHyP3o0rQ96oYXpPqKYEw6chTeudVl41M0xzy4puffKiu88gXlscw1lkwSGJQ_XuWgKsX8R-m3Ch1QEYu4YRYkwivE4QPY6PiZOCtmrKBAPARaeta4qjahP1-mzGKwn61_XSk6JbfHiJnWU9J8w6TfYJNiYJNUYjmj5oXu51FLrGZKa3N0zJgRvy2LiGyD-uoUcZBWOspoGnD5GrrGQUaaMjY9Gp-uNHr3FmbdgA9WuhmfgS1MXxEC9CZsKpwxKeQlPJK5D5XIR6qySTpSo1N4piRer8cNR0HRUyrSq2vm474o_IKJtl6Yo=w1346-h757-no)

I'm probably going to wrap up this thread later this week with some windage testing at different distances.  I can't quite get that right...  I'm either too little or too much in my adjustments!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/L8gdu1G1wwcW3w4Arpfr_5YyxuVkUfF_8eDca2Vx7rKgPkMv7zTnv49L5q8C7uIGosf-9nfOs2LKFzxSt2GLHYKZj60xutMYmvhp6mSz9dQAoFs_Fi7U732IoZC9obt6ymn_eJevBQ678qMGxk19K5-TGdwm1a-ER0j2NWzFbV1oQqPBpm8ba4gKGJIbmjW3j-7c0d9QP9jUNI9ZMWI8D77YdVKhTIXz1Jc2Jsr818YzeDKo6e079ZK5wcwj5Dx2LJb0uh-sstFDHwh7DWhrW7BrjInffeJBel_3VpEWb5fxyzEmOpUMadwYlkzpzrR89D6aUU7D2z9uhRlUOGfCzSXreFcHMbXO4kAUkcUJWCXHhuHglxgVEiwgKJc9zH20nqySLlaL9F5owfwKudJmegyRBjHkC86hxseAFbRZXV_VjllNH7wTHiCypj4hV97B5FiMWdYt2dqU_2d9UHqO7XysvkEK61km3pi9bT9m9BuZdZT_d8qLuavcEZ0UGrPDX_jNR0Oqblllheqbl76xw7nGzLqZw02KZJIRBCPP29PX2lxizlhs5MyVDmgm2-23hMLEtHuGRmc8oncnYWufbnUF4L9jE8G45dl9AroKDOeYqwOBcqLKNJsfN8_3Yq60G6LAyJAJXaooTgQ98NUbHe8_FaXfQ_kRN3BdYfJGN0xWGcnFblMJclCHy6J54-XOIg3PR2N8J_KMTDFS1RWHZOCyZF9zCLmNhv1g7aFjtRiAJyaz1K1EIfo=w1346-h757-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on May 06, 2020, 10:15:16 AM

Finally found a picture for a 10m sight picture using the rear peep and front aperture.

Big outer ring is the rear peep sight, bottom bar represents the gun barrel and the bottom of the front aperture sight, next ring is the outside of the front aperture sight, next ring with side bars is the aperture itself.  Center black spot is the bullseye. 


When shooting the two bars that hold the aperture ring should be level to the background to minimize canting. 

Your brain will help you a lot here.  It tries to make you keep the rings concentric and even.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on May 07, 2020, 09:42:25 AM

Matt;

You can also try the Micro-Sight with an Iris aperture.

It used to be sold by Brownell's Sinclair website, but I cannot find it anymore.

Nowadays, unless we can find some NOS, you would have to buy from the Europeans specialized in Match sighting equipment.
We've discussed this before so if you search, I am sure you will find some interesting info.

Keep well, healthy and sane.





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 07, 2020, 02:42:48 PM

Dave, thanks for sight picture graphic.  That helps!  And thanks for the sight recommendation Hector.  Bright and sunny days are rare in CNY so I can probably make the existing peep work 95% of the time ;-)

I did a quick box test starting with a shot on the bullseye and then doing a 50-click box up and to the right.  Then I did the same thing with 50-clicks down and to the left.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SKZP8bQZVOGesiOO3vgTGehitr56-Mr80vA3xJAZCuyauLy6eu255SUfyHub0VFKQE_7_8sYDIMMWsG4i6st08-Yiz52voAw43QextxCJ7H8601FPNJTBNflLZ7oTnF781ozNGCNBGUfuC0tjE36zMzDdhysxoW-ZPhF7STYV0iiPOLtMK4McJBDFl2nXA4KotX8xR-GxkNLaPuryo8A7CrhHdp2qIJ4BRD5iIly_t7dD3BUcNKbwadHYpZgn-nd3yjqLr3QULQ8JO2oIMC7JZHT5IJxQS1trOr-57kokhp7EAKffArST7tRb1z0rCrbTFMC8tjMWXChbP2ZtoRjABjyZ34hgdzT_0yCwwQgeJPNk8KTco-FDTxTViHfTJ11agh0YmVDc4vu2MWIPt0BCnWZhgUdpOR_r6wF_O2Lphjt-3-m0iwEOOXTpkAfQDlt918Z0Shb1fJx0OGdTFse6dzplQ95WnxuQ6ELUUcTFIErA0QiG_Mjh-eYjwR0owFTbt3drS7d2Ms0tHGgu1hFq5D-m6KUgo7vxI9WigicikR-CKQjZ_8obvPa8nNAoWvt7CzjnsgyRhnRUIvcuZGa_IZ-aKWf9EK3d3P6vQiYwFwpFojZeGfE85Fmo5tneI6f2t0VrVu4Yw84eV6XN2uStD-mqN4Yhl1i51sqRohAD8zPfN5LRsO4FyY-AeUn1mjHGOY7-d-jhBuMs0NoEha0Tt3vvTIOZlD7AqcC5baf4CXtNL7y8R3LiPHZ=w1211-h937-no)

It was interesting how the wind affected the size of the box.  It was blowing from behind me from my right to the left.  It looks like 50-clicks at 25 yards is roughly 2 inches.  I think my notes written on the target over estimate the POI movement.  Without wind it would likely be more like 1.5 to 2 inches per 50-clicks.  I shot a few earlier targets and found 20 clicks is roughly one inch at 25 yards.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dwalk on May 07, 2020, 05:27:36 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on April 26, 2020, 01:12:52 PM

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your suggestions!  I bought the .05 key as part of a combo set which are all together so I'll be (somewhat!) less likely to lose it this way!  That's a pretty interesting concoction of cleaners you use.  I could probably use a proper parts washer, but probably more out of laziness than anything else, I find myself grabbing a can of brake or carb cleaner to get stuff like this cleaned up...  And thanks for the liquid bearings suggestion that looks like a good product for this use :-)

The weather on Saturday was spectacular and I got some good shooting / testing in with the peep.   I'm really enjoying it and it looks pretty good on the rifle  ;-)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xby9chlbassoawiSwhS5z_MKEnbcn_6FuARGGvCWILMfMqD9pjGuo11W8-7Pz2XsyJvikdCcRTnUOlUQSHa8kKBKhiCawn8zMUHI9Eo0yRCjYIKUvg0N1vYkZDIgTulVGGWvKUK503m2ddhRWSuKFhAZbpPCXr3Q6PrKGZaAYgoCk3iRDtOetCxgBh7gwxc9t4Pvk_446Gjr_oHGR2rmdV2RO_OEMr4ML2Ubhuh8lLn6r3bG5vufljRn3zpMPxANWFqm4nNfSnpxb3RwnciDvbRhE1FXnKFP6Vt01SSaajGP4jCKhSMsZlwQiq7pYBtYjRGzj0DTszXJXkvmCXoKuvvNAmEjuNBpz8eM3qCh4FSZ88vWYZTI7fgjlwjqzVatdYHkgr9LL-7jzWKqrT71lLHr2srH51Nd8S4vIJouyCz2-mAgulACPd8W5eqI_RFEMxolRMDMhKHb8hjCWN7KFohZV0MbChU4jLF3dFIUBShMWuxGFGUqAM879QcaBeNX1hDWp4oK3mvdqkUxt0RtN_s9Hokt6v5Zd89HSVbrKyeK4L9peHGQhR8tshn8McAeU_1mSUfXYfmbDGprMa7VIn--yMO_6ekKY8r38yFUaTJDZKILH2sL179Ghy7VoqDIkGQpftws6H0WG_LwcTVVsTMSU03e1xc_vdnD7Av6K0XKnt2ffgxI78ZngBu1fQEMh00ue9nfZw3DmyVGVoxsRp_oqHvHRgfoCesCoJI9EecPeNN8amSpdZQ=w1346-h757-no)


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/q3IROIytcIXlZtZM7KHYA9-IMZyVYY1VKkzClD2VreB6H66aGR4NdVTZY4Oa7oJLJ-czISMPs1ZEO3ga76RQgcIe7iAHjp8VFEzjamcsbx6MW8FEZMp9D9nuGZ6s4DIIqNix692v3Imv3OsXRS8-3wyBaRCGpyLQJelMgGZWJcl3oTI4UnzQ-TpObaJrJ_wWOZp1GJs3id56ITU59qRH37CqyjHCwEZ74M5UFAb5bABoPCyH5E1pZyzl78T_tUach6vy6r-LtIwcyc1AZ5DZwwnIRr2m6zxWarc9CcnNvTsmwFYr27w7zUzhEUpHCXYO7QihrJzEAmJ-JMBNyXfU5eCX0QYHqEgCIfnOtnyZkyVov8B7LcITRpNQb8B4XARnL-fX0NnO94Mg4NtMnxVNewQlDTbOnnQw7g64ndTmgxAwO--bqtVcp_5SVjosebJE9lc8sl5WqX6Sz7qCgYEXNLoBTMOFXRiYgi2asOXq5sPwDW7JVgPXrL5EL0ufmj73w1OX-kKtBzwo3AgElsEYevoWubdx1xJ0qu7DgebyF4g08tbi2u00a17mXNch3VAQqdoSQhziUAvgn_wMqig8F3r3z1it60p5QKESf-qXcWa1F3oAKqJaHVkXmlKDz378lLFM6I8QBaKKQZFlFDYDZ82arIU3oWaNn7gVWT1STBwcFBrjGBNR87ckDc5LxWOjfx21oqklpxMSVSlQG6UFnfKHAX7YNxeg2C-GSq4V8laFT57bToSq9K0=w1346-h757-no) 


(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ruoYDhLFz_xkp5gpQu413rfR5n_4f1BY_Fguy4Gjnvp2fhvWjKEt0Ln3-3tBl1JwWFZt8BMpCRJcY0tOTHZsnsnpk2NXB3DeuiBlqf0kOic1G5cQD0OJN1F-Y-yyzhbKypV2dECR1jgV4UsmN6SFeyNSowi7uSZMq2wfaExKRzUL-5IcAfvIfJTLmj6MaqyJNHgHCgBv65Z-GRVKbdu8l-z_IEd6IMZQLSKhqDCaDRgJwM-8rUQlw-GcDZXS-FXKwYpbX5lRL_m3jDCf9EdIauYXYKbgv29lcBr4HZ237E65l3lH_6kHa_LNVGPqUJ5C52jRyUoJc2vOuISbKt7cDrni3gaYsLMhal3Y7e8yUG3zmxVjtntYA2zdf-FhqSQLQWiKdAYk2vgNCajbmoamZGh0IEueoAY8NrCvQPHyhT84aDKDjTwp-nXw3028NL8ayiv_MMcASiPICGNt49zhvbLhgrVYMURTSTeq0lmEqZPO5IpsC0Moz1s0ST2difoXk9oO21NLqx5x5_TrLVnxj2n0ZWRTEICl3lyBa-ZiFIgjMi7x3KbkH4EvtKW4fS6waeiLjZSTP0tG_8s_fzUt7wZVncWBplTZDMLsR7Acz3dH6eIR65JHbSV9sOF-0bONUMiBlgwSo6buua6XI8FAb4XnOig8WDVZ0U9HAMFH1HvtyJpXPB-gV7KvWV_2OP9BSgOvCtptXAcZitN8CkyjRC_XH3_6VlDGC12zXIIoYCFYLQMm2pvGraU=w1347-h757-no)


I wanted to do some shooting at various distances and found that a 30-ish yard zero worked pretty well.  I was able to use 2-inch splatter stickers at that distance pretty well.  I found the gun to be dead on at 13 yards, maybe an inch high at 20 yards, good at 30 and then it took 50 clicks to zero again at 50 yards. 

So this is what worked out to be my "normal" elevation for 30 yards:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZlN5U-yjNfZkbPwV3h9_p7q4BQYAY69S6AhhoAIMjgZM8JMGlxqtKJXBfvaa6HKeXVP0If5T-8qCOhCCl4BoqlziqIX3LzDEVB8vuORSkKToqy_uJMtanGt6eNXvIaXInkWrk0DhG9DJN2j4KuyDqBuBlI8D5O2s9Ooyum-fDT4Zp_l26ZWC4sBXumdD9YI5Fo1PVcdMCRl-5Cx3D-TZrx4NblCrTSJpaPm7FLMDyYi_FmKe6fIpMrwH8O7mcsCu1IY1kzG_FS-FEvWquF7xeuRk7Z-9-ccs3klhJFhaHSKGgqt6AhZqI6W9z4QgPy0g7I2b_awQIFLco5uJmKxo3oJiWLbm7CmgiWtvJ8x20M67d6n6t3ZoYvNgMCqa6vFYnLAs1uxwuWbd8jJlj-D84elPd6RNeMRLnzwwqMmQfSuiTrlLDmS1-ATuTmKfdxkAxY8bksSqfAACdZJ84g6FQ8TkAtxSt1R6eVs6oDxkHYJGqPlIt3CV7JCocMBIMGpgiRSZF92wkMMSHjG9Jgt_ufzZD10xyWrcKMDWjEuLgT1LUcHWr2y75b82hwL6FgbWByWAwNZkE6jdog_y75e5OGb81EKSoE0B7UB8g67SfEKUVIXpuaQ50S4KNuJywU5lhXFBCbEMgkom-11u_25UFYaMUFctOv3JhEwbwTnIc4Ci0QaZL4EzEruYRdSNkhPFUYHBmvms40UXoLIqg8jSgVrm0TpZAje79bRDWm5pFKv4JPv0TnUZcoM=w1346-h757-no)

And this at 50 yards:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N9U8omgE-SR-7Qgh0vfMk9nKk37ya631bGa-GPJEhHDoDWytlrMSd2DB7Y8hS9k8Z_bZVlq93GJsGbHW_p9sp69QwmY_ONOTyKL6BOMYuk0QsVp0rUBBf2e-HeyzOqGPjAK_i68qktIy24YoVaQU0w-uUAwz2XolORCfqsxNHp1SGCNVfAkX24-NazapNYRU6ANUAxz3QN4n5OKsVkXwgf1z0fd9jUaaWJNaGwHXdGRt3RrzHbb5ZxQeFNzQsNS-LSZKalvtP6hAgIqaKfRgBlVS91DGtRLUi3hG4naWJ0dPmFCVlM0s632fjuET4RGdldupiEQhFetXk7z0kun-rShNjSwJlZwlIN_LjFalN8XE8h4f2GHXJ9DuGCBJEwYZYQlLl71bp9-SqpSp0wT7GUcL-i46aIFrfQY91ryI1rBCEyaWqhRl8ApGDeBb2UcoR0zfWR8gQ3CL6Hyrbbz38aOIj2rb4VKOsZQuJqddrIv0Fnq9ZQS-hakW_E4VInuKfAo6Dpq-K6R58kksA4-2Kif54HCQ0gzsvpalcqQIyvJWZFVsHBdxq3sxikvLYZ-YIjofnAVFdNFMvWkZnmQYT37AfAgv-aQKuaAegQuONUn0oms--Q6pb18K1sZrG461WvfIC0120_mAS9q8XHZg7iqetDe7LsO3CiF2QSqXqgaEVmmOHSnblsrNbJmFUFOI6U68qRh3GWY-XsHJe36t3Q5TqaEHimlMY2QTT_5axylobJpskfk-a-M=w1346-h757-no)

Here are a few more sample targets.  These seem to be pretty typical groupings for 30 yards off a rest with the peep.  I found the group on the right to be particularly satisfying  :-)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/ZAlun0TKreezrHRNz8tUl-rjukixYM4FbhTBXTo9RMyBAc-DF7bZodgYYe_EyMNkmAZJcPIheVotOyEsNVjr9NEjPvKfsMt-2PDErw8to4Zn-beHJMSnFIeCQug3rDNygTZ0oMXxjqfSX6KiSqaP0IGjL4yy77zfOMciA5JVL_BFCAWErBhUqwke6jJOpWu9VSMnAJErFuEy_CsFfwyVGW1gOK5lNYf5co0AWHjlMCW_hA35jSBI53QXET4bt_9_WwSJFuJ8raJwrefDLxOMhANSSCOOMo1YHWbuUfGwbRZoHh5fV04QnwImF97TArfZYQXOAgVQqsXUZUir0wkBYwAr7wvr-PgbUUHJ0KLm-Af9D47r4oh-UDS1Km2MnVnXGRq8nHaSIWO5kuj0EMlCRH34w_NIBa7dpTXiQmhQVIphxRTOXwMVIfOkbx8QxhOFBG8xVS2WHe0oDwHFy-ikBZEZL3zi1t86dDCrGdimwmobhfvADkvH00dTSi9odnj-SG2JiYmozU-tIJ81P2iXnBrDfA-CqTreNhfv5RywELyG__yydHfPwLR92hWlndiHnhEz2EIjpMi9RB0J2T4tt2dA1FrxL4zJUKTtle1HhYm7_rO_EKIdMLePekzfl0ltEFpJbzkM5AeGsip4u9RzPfwz8mcvxrhunX-nC-oC7x_-CbtTDeW6yVNBtDcnoDRrZSBC6kyAu-GZC1fMKVC8WtqnfCxqEkuP7-8A6ba_PjYUxLjo6iqZ3Cg=s757-no)


And here are my 50 yard tests.  You can see the drop on the left from my 30 yard zero, 30-clicks of elevation change (left) and then 50 clicks of elevation change (right):

(http://kRhsuZT4lSAcAXS7YAyJZhNSgqk8Ya4g6qjDLY9MkyLWjFfOrA6gq9zOrUcUOYB466aZttx7pF41M2Qg_WqKd4h7CDUUKFx0K0KjDw6OOqc2snXkekMHkvmrFWJ97C2cf0wr6kYcyUdI56M2OHBkLa59Kwxp7n_SA_zWjF2DUySyvYNrWPkiJGZkUjbUF)

I then returned the target to 30-yards.  The top-left 3 shots are keeping my 50 yard adjustment and then adjusting back to my 30-yard zero by undoing the 50-clicks of elevation change.   On the right-side I took at guess at what my near zero is and nailed it.  Those are 2 shots (edit) at 13 yards and then one at 20 yards to see how high it might be:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/gCYOCBoSGlYuxVVvrPnCSAH8ijEFZ3dl-ufwGxztBHwd2sMPj2dd4HYx3H8D4-HL7sMWrmnJeFmYqL6RuH-SMhq4Mm0QbY1egK6HLMePwBgeHTIPOKEP-9Lo2pskXhFfxkVJFhiRRUOEoUmEhSHaJXh8NZJkX0d_TNJ-KOdhfTNEFTNvGRKFN-oTNv3tPwASQDHuvJttlE8d1zkK_qKJHP1nOhhEuBbSr_kLG1B_4XN4OYjHJaQe70ARQCAG1IGI1Cx8-21HvKk6fd3oWdSfjyqQF4Jh9e-SdDevpjB--jknT1Lcdt3nOJzMb9bPbvpcKD27NHZSpd1Ck5DlXXqRWNFaeBmmOuOs2AGP7LNLV5y8e8l78-2YOCNJgal59dkRDbRIjASlloA2SFIBiKALI9ZaxMboN8Yr6LKvV-HPCaZnAFFAf9ePL69MAllke78XXAoRPTlJKRr-HuFq2Nh4tA1jvEKXQuaWJDP-9eHvKMUtUoXwqEBMkqEcfOdYP83StxqSNasXTIG9xIs3WDcp_MwuuC09c1Dx4zPJnAhqmeqGSaOrWswSaI2-dDRl_RFbhIJdH3HLUwi_QAg1VaWErDndLT-VXD-gBH0GQXmxO9TEu4zMJLL6N2Pl8sVqyLlajiiRgwQAYu_Y0191oijN4pDzALSShF3tK4E9vns-hxebpKL9RuLchEPu9Xwma_sGb011Dsy-cBRXLYFuvot4yXiePEZodqcP89hAJ1PbcUcLrKhgJrIeSuI=w976-h757-no)


Lastly, I did some chrony testing.  I recorded the muzzle velocity and velocity at 30 yards with jsb 18s (chairgun bc = .0357)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/WkFjKra85q_Yg3EkIhx0MKTDryuK3cYflLSRbo_H0wFSB83_oYoqzX9n_sBEfhK7YLEEwMUwUgAWZ2g8Y7DqqNOWlHPF3b0liYjArpcfGklVWXFRk4Y8aHIEj1NH410rnmIA1epgoI9fof9h97sj91ZuUH0hIY6xc5j0Evkmb5i1Bo48ghHqsTfwF2R5PlmRGQmKmxia2dpRJx2XxFLufqSztne7T22IVFpoBzFxJeGL1eL5Bm8xX79brlQIH-niIMDx0Ss580DfExoYOTqImVEhGr74TexS_c0n2ARxdu90ca0UXNFJOsfrJEaH2n08FxiJgjZxKNbcyc8uXyZ-Oit5a2SQ93AZ3iLz65vkzthBzB0gtlVY2wW_qsrIILs-blyUBmZE6p3EXO2q7DlliOt6xmxsNog0cXEA5mTugK9DYjCNreBUWVp5_0E_cA7JMOAD3JUxcRw8oZG2q-C2ZSwtxSiCQxY4qPOn8hglCrFM4ec-yVioVRJ7EDR6-DVol20b4xgQ_WOrseQT5km_msAdeiwP8nQ31wH1ZnLmnDAlfRr4tgXU-V7HMTMh3qu9W66Dz45zSVxVOhv7sAKMzbfzeImlI7oUuHTpHm4zFIIc0OqbioOdoKBpT6j4LRbsWeblHnrhIb7cwlpu4qOTzS-7sV6TiCNkXHaplEUwb3Kh-BqtZ6uu_qu0nIb_6ZBilFtVpMkwdYTht8qibS1g6P6G-3CiKJqXlh9NdXnqAB6i1WdtZ7oLhsE=w1346-h757-no)


All-in-all a very fun Saturday morning!

where did you get the gibb set screw on the Williams rear peep?

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 07, 2020, 07:28:38 PM

Hi Don, I bought the gun used so unfortunately I can't give any details regarding the screw in the sight.  Sorry!  :-(

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on May 08, 2020, 11:02:25 AM

The "Gibbs" screw you mention may well have come off another sight.  Most target sights are designed to easily be removed for storage and replacement by a scope during competition.

The one that is there looks a lot like one off the Redfield International Rear sight that I have. 

You might be able to find one at a gun show junk parts table someday.  It is possible that Numrich, Brownells, or Champion Choice might have parts....

I found one on eBay that would probably work with the Williams

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Redfield-International-and-Palma-attaching-screw/353008517019?hash=item5230f27f9b:g:uv8AAOSwwZpafYUm (https://www.ebay.com/itm/Redfield-International-and-Palma-attaching-screw/353008517019?hash=item5230f27f9b:g:uv8AAOSwwZpafYUm)

Good luck.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: ssbn617 on May 08, 2020, 11:41:57 AM

This is it. I believe it came from Brownells, but it might be Midway.
Mitch

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on May 29, 2020, 02:31:24 PM

Quote from: Mossonarock on April 23, 2020, 11:34:07 AM

I had significant recoil going through the stock of my D56 until I removed the metal bracket of the cocking fin that the cocking lever pushes against at the end of the stroke which pushes the gun's action forward. If you remove that bracket, you just have to remember to push the action forward before you shoot. I do that when I also push the trigger safety off. That cocking fin gets pinched between the cocking lever and the gun's action. Its not a fault in the design but rather an engineering trade off.

Mossonarock, can you confirm if this is the bracket you removed?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3ffjlVgy2ZK22JU3S2NBuBj96lAxf7zK3vgffS-mXFU1E3p8vsAp1DWYPzmoyKCepzFpVF8B950WFa50Bbfz0L3n_c8Rq94wZ1ckU4dtZWT0WK13uMOgk9SJZyA7kgL1uFAv9FCIIezke_k9_1atVFzBw=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)


Also, can anyone explain what (if anything) this screw hole is used for that's in between the front of the trigger mechanism and the sled?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fRmUJ1HS6bNOA3h2OAQSGRfGtQtJrvUY6oiawTMNfN2koBz5QaNzObdS82jT2eg5T8i3i0qv6sYeifCESmV72nvrfb1KMaglnqxxDAN9M_h5nqEqgx5B0_oMnVUeut_uHi3q7ElhSUZl_Ol9YS8yAPLg=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

Thanks!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: truck driver on May 29, 2020, 05:49:50 PM

I do believe all the side lever Diana rifles share the same action tube so if it were used on a 48 it would be the rear action mounting screw for the stock.
Diana just welds the sled brackets on a generic action tube that's used for all the side levers.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Mossonarock on June 01, 2020, 09:49:18 AM

mcoulter,
That's exactly the bracket I removed. I believe I've read elsewhere from Hector that removing it is something sometimes done to set up one of these guns for field target. So, removing it isn't unheard of.
The bracket also serves as the washer under the rubber washer under the slide. So, I replaced it with a regular metal washer. That way I still have the metal:rubber:metal washer stack under the slide.
I hope that makes sense. If you remove the bracket, just be sure to remember to manually slide the action forward into battery after loading/before aiming. Sometimes I forget and the recoil reminds me.

That looks like a lot of grease you have all around in there. I'd at least remove the grease from the slides/rails. I find that grease on the slides and rails actually interferes with the sliding action. I don't use anything for lube. I figure the combination of hard steel rails and soft brass slides makes it so that lube just isn't necessary.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 01, 2020, 10:18:31 AM

Quote from: Mossonarock on June 01, 2020, 09:49:18 AM

mcoulter,
That's exactly the bracket I removed. I believe I've read elsewhere from Hector that removing it is something sometimes done to set up one of these guns for field target. So, removing it isn't unheard of.
The bracket also serves as the washer under the rubber washer under the slide. So, I replaced it with a regular metal washer. That way I still have the metal:rubber:metal washer stack under the slide.
I hope that makes sense. If you remove the bracket, just be sure to remember to manually slide the action forward into battery after loading/before aiming. Sometimes I forget and the recoil reminds me.

That looks like a lot of grease you have all around in there. I'd at least remove the grease from the slides/rails. I find that grease on the slides and rails actually interferes with the sliding action. I don't use anything for lube. I figure the combination of hard steel rails and soft brass slides makes it so that lube just isn't necessary.

MoaR.- Yes, the short stroked D54's cannot use the "fin" that moves the action forward. And the movement is more consistent when done by hand as a separate action from the cocking stroke.
MattC.-The bronze that is used in the sled units is a special casting. It permanently lubed. IF you absolutely NEED to lube something (out of mental necessity), then use "Liquid Bearings" and use ONE drop in each pin, then move the slides around and then clean.
Do this once a year.

HTH





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 10:05:59 AM

Thank you for your input on this Hector  :D

The pics in that last post both old and new.  The amount of grease is not quite as bad as shown in the pics - but next time I have it out, I'll clean up the remaining amount.  This has been an interesting gun to figure out.  I think my latest realization is that a previous owner’s use of a bipod that was mounted by inserting a tab under the front mounting screw has altered the plastic cap and maybe the wood where it mates the cap. I ended up putting one washer in the recessed area under that cap and that has helped quite a bit.  I can now snug down the front screw to 25 in/lbs or so without too much binding.  This would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do without the washer there.  The sled would not have moved at all at that tightness.

Can anyone with a 54 let me know how the bottom of plastic front mounting is molded?  Is it perfectly flat?  Or is it contoured to sit and be oriented in a specific  way when tightened against the stock?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 12:06:44 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 10:05:59 AM

Thank you for your input on this Hector  :D

The pics in that last post both old and new.  The amount of grease is not quite as bad as shown in the pics - but next time I have it out, I'll clean up the remaining amount.  This has been an interesting gun to figure out.  I think my latest realization is that a previous owner’s use of a bipod that was mounted by inserting a tab under the front mounting screw has altered the plastic cap and maybe the wood where it mates the cap. I ended up putting one washer in the recessed area under that cap and that has helped quite a bit.  I can now snug down the front screw to 25 in/lbs or so without too much binding.  This would have been IMPOSSIBLE to do without the washer there.  The sled would not have moved at all at that tightness.

Can anyone with a 54 let me know how the bottom of plastic front mounting is molded?  Is it perfectly flat?  Or is it contoured to sit and be oriented in a specific  way when tightened against the stock?

Thanks!

Matt;

I am sure you can get better answers if you are more concrete about your questions.

There are "TWO plastic caps" at both ends of the action: One is a rivetted cover for the space that needs to be created for the sliding of the action. This one is at the REAR.
There is a "filler block" that acts as bushing between the mechanisms tube, the barrel, the shim, the sleeve and that covers the space between the bare barrel and the barrel receiving block inset into the mechanisms tube. In the 54 (as opposed to a 48), that barrel sleeve is "winged" because those wings also prevent foliage debris of falling into the action in whatever position the action is in (forward-battery/ Rear-Fired).
Yes there is a specific orientation to the barrel sleeve, AND the shim, AND the block.
The wings, MAY have been mistreated, and have "closed" on themselves, in this case, you will need to VERY judiciously, open them till they fit perfectly the 4 parts in question.

Other than those two caps I cannot think of anything that even remotely refers or reminds me of what you are trying to describe.

Perhaps, the most orderly way is to use a DIAGRAM: https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Download-Techische-Info/Ersatzteillisten-Luftgewehre/Mod_54_Airking_T06.pdf (https://www.diana-airguns.de/fileadmin/Editoren/PDF-Downloads/Download-Techische-Info/Ersatzteillisten-Luftgewehre/Mod_54_Airking_T06.pdf)

And from there, talk about POSITIONS (the numbers of the parts in the diagram), and or Part numbers (the list that follows the diagram).

So, are you talking about parts in position 11 OR in position 57?

Keep well and shoot straight!





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 04, 2020, 12:37:15 PM

On my .177 54, the part number 11 as Hector noted was the culprit when I first got theused gun.  The action was squeezed down so tight that it was binding on the wood.  I also found that the washers had been installed wrong.  from the wood Metal - Metal - rubber - That's what allowed the action to be squeezed down so tight.  Correct installation and lower torque (I use 20in/lb) helped a lot.  That may be what has given you the felt recoil too.  I also tried an additional washer as you did here.  After getting it installed correctly, I didn't need it but it won't hurt!!

On mine, part 11 is plastic with the wings being metal. 

Cheers!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 01:09:04 PM

Sorry for the vague post and question.  The part I was asking about is #87.  This guy:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xnGzruNNFWnDTSpMJBP3fQayWaffkntXDPOHf03cJX_X1yxynRHlvhRAoy1uQ7w0R7S-MJwqcH2z82VCk1mibVpyYmooW37Y0Y22i_I6frEPGD-Dxf97RhOVDfWR6qQs_c4AmWye8ef6CBwGQObUzNWiKrF6AYgV-ps0IozMtGPqF-F5_ARERC_xEELwm0PBgCjLHQISnqGn_1ce9tNQQijEL155_Xbpl6Tx8Ih6wGTivzYPlcm2cFOAHKOcCpd6dbTVuhhFPnC0FJsEf_LqOG-4WXkbHrlWDRmvitMYrmqEZXybOiiFUCs9OocN3ZvwwC7xX04zHWce6YT4a9f-FPCg6RV9xHFwK0YDn9VD9OIzdWCBC2L3hNfqkhqho4avlMTF_1zeT9PdtV0q3Zz0KvyPQHWq_wYZu0ajF4a0kSJG0AT0CBdVol8SjEuCGqsGrlPPJlPJ6NqFhcM8dQ7vkYx8oKfvUDSvlgpdPeYFznu3FcZWjxs6TiM3bZzxtT-D7hlWBpVbdmpwM0toLhpzkD_YcpCJFYW5O7otjwXh3QDsuP1fPXC6O5eWKeC-V_qRGTByPKk7_-8hpXt06WelR1Lb9S0Ih89m9VA59Jr4oH5vmdo1xfCZbD7Vj9QbXYeeGMMv-Ft-PYplV0EhXlFo4BECynoqjBMSp6vv0hY3mzQXEmBTVtng7GtJ0Qjmdb4=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

And this is the additional washer I was referring to:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sxdmQej-QKoKKZUm4q6Cq7Va0l-kQTz_jDL0oP0xrkCp7__n3t9UTBRNLguaxQAr9X-53_GjNjEHdy9QCi-oDZlbnR1QarJrL9rnsp0sBbyovt0Noo9AVyCE_BxA3TMiCeMobjYsA4mwS_Ewthzvevc_TQfZz8Pyrx3NjZzxuNSSb68M_nzwbHnfjU0BP2HNlU4frITQaCTcImRz0cRMeS2dwqXwLWmitCd-uMT3xLYkutGGzoOzE6P8Hreu093dXTGvQp99Si8wGMjAARbQbHGCkGRSYNPj-BrlP6vS1GG7k1g7cDILwnyRrPhQ134Jr4ZX9uSEbd8gurE7qedNK7yYLREev3kajcAW378ToTDT5r9udRYZrqFg7pJX8cklVJhPCQFqdaAW71tMQmoA64B_DgK5T7o0C7hhrxqFe1TOVeRwLJU0CLlYkoqXDBooFu8S3yPzny5NwGFftmOsVLsrwC3KNNSk8FJuYxAXZPvq7TCY9pFc9UTAXNsFroT9MbXpLYuZU_ty-pySmqNrnG9DsgIcggR-I1MR0Gviuk8JRcJYj-KQSig8ztIXKqVVz4PGrkdLqaKrvjBGJzmPsMfTuxx3zfZb1dyBtFv0sNVnxb-Lhw4k0-zm-tAQ72-gHiObZ1JePVE_NnA75EgcMF9TbIUvseHwTriLMvd0mAeZo0VsrtYMsIUPj_LuQQo=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

It seems like without the washer, the stock is being pulled unevenly to the action causing binding.  The washer allows (presumably) a more even tightening and lets me get nearer to the 25 inch pounds of torque that's been recommended.  The sled action still seems to get tight (harder to move) much lower than that.  I'm guessing 15 inch pounds is where the action seems to have its best and smoothest movement. 

I did remove all the grease from the sleds:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GVmAwdoU4U229351DAlRReSZL-UyaC6JWOirNJHA-aZ6DUixDJP7Q5c_s-3j6eMfEFBLbQ3jp19s4pQ_KIbwrNDZuCRQ_A0RKywwAw11RyjcE07tkM_a9uhyqdK-7XO8Wrl9kzEYBFvPIs8AmcAOht5PXVnokzmSQ0NOHY3LzUz3vHP6mZ0iSBWwDaK1WlZUnmalSDNvGCzkmcBLSltIe5XcQnuuLVImiCzSgs1ODl5wgvZlA_k7HfXdEPUySpqz_NntzTbVoZP7uGFomb6jkl6RSI2Rsv9HplF-FsTNbYAqqG6IjTDOwiNOR0By2BlYKAyWEaogBwC1VXwxMYzHv4yBCJQJIZC8KqidjTY0zzLZXhHMSpu5SmQefSdME-vTjsb9lLiH0wN4PwBp6SUI0bJ5QLQXCBg5lXLw9IRfYblQSaG3MgGLhLdjP5ilyHXW3YNoAcF8DHX1XXdaIIXm1QBqMoHG2ql9X95uqpmI7Hkuo8OdCbxPw7zHR5wIW48RigyYl1QIBlYg1tFmkNcRp2XTHP2v24P7Ra3by86UCugYUxt10sh5e4zmEme72xxeW8qAw-cCNkBNQ9wqewJdeKjO2imZkql0LI6xB6YJwV3fyZhT85Yj9SNy2TmtbXPMoRBjA5U-uH6LIUjzHph6QDJaxVtn9QXtUSB3VDDDqD3UmvI06YhCnK0UBzOrKtY=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6PzS3PDNw97ErZ-2Fwk9Wdg-LPoIaBsVToTkWlz9n5ba8n2tkNjPkwyvijCTXOaWHnnon9Ni9W3Fl-2-yN-KmKsYm70mcLwPyG-jvfSqFuYlyFGCtn1MdqXSe2hljogiJFkl0xivUr4Jq6RPsTP31aVOlEIMllTxXgHLMes4QXbGVn_24xlRZL8Wt3jvdZmMbeQBB_PpUfE0dNO7ns4HnqUmT8EdizDvUklIDI_Zey4nTYFWJs6u4-5kstwczqDuUCFpn4kN9Z2WgiZgx4J7daxaGI5iTkTcbHSx83EFkZbhwFzXhumV1FZQEG0FSySUPMSQcq51NklAlpBKlAczSOClqrs3igXEnuC3lsKoVFhyQ9kesoerMv5vIbxKp0KUa08hJDPpIyQ8PDhVIHXuYN-vpNy_ccp1g-1Zl7ugtUwNAMYKmHCej6_cW9ZqvvOYfj7ps1nPedEFm5jeubeuNdtR-esx30xx2ZNPFpgIMQDHuMoth68pZ0q1bAXhG7NGUEPaGrtE3LU52ROgn4WBnKJaw9EwrbfJKNxELTn-xWljdBrhDfM98C7yCevAYujbd9ZKsfLMcEAGzMJzW8np9cWhFQLryChGCasg2iNGaQbOzGxAOJWhPZ2Z-i8BfWxF4txsuJ5wNtkakVosiFcyR79r1cQzuoHDqafsTC1haKViTTCr1QBJK-6Fkfk7R0A=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

But most importantly I noticed these wear marks on the metal guard that surrounds the trigger assembly.  A careful bending of these arms outward and centering of the trigger pins seems to have relieved the points of contact here:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kH-99kNY1FIszmK2FSH8xhsIMHgj9yijVpq0cDP_JZ5MgYXaLS2PDskoInD6X-JZD503TV-S3wNwW5JjYlGCAzc3M_6wUCEgFmqBzd2SzOhoth0NOiEVcV7SLeh0VIRd9byd3dyxFBd-SZdl6Rv66TDXeIbuRMwbNgc4U3pVd2NHhMk3tM3PKgidKVmc1n754IDJbWg8EXBYL9H_p7ih7gzjBi3hcGHkvilWA70_hZQ18zXfi8WeoOVc7DZCFi7KBDGz60mDysM9HxQvHXCajwn5NTBUOa-5U7Ex-QHxBQQOCeWqvrwO6j20yJy8c362wtvwn8VVgcIt8Caz9iaUc6wQhi66Fgq2uIcJzpZFJipbE8lEtBTj9gK9Ljv-Y6uQTbg5byKYpTNDyBhS2wxgBBuUy8JF2Dq1r9SCwtnnnCmnpT0tm0FedQ_GzplMTYrRJDPCoQ61qGrGa3xGK2HzfP59OIiDWKim_Li2nvYBnWQXTpqqPz0JAeyNgtYxrvo5sTPw_jcVwhGsukXEummtmPKVyG3UqL5q32pSxeLRwAW5l3vrtATZsPWyNzwDq9Yfwwa9odGATJk7STBAIqZ7X4YN7ED5SF15Zq4yRHtI4DHAn3npuO8ooq69I7As6EFNF1XPpIfz050l-0E3ZU42XrJzZqr9i4Bm0dySEKkMWksK8atFYKs9-8WZmZwAVkY=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

We'll see if this has any impact on the accuracy of the rifle...

Thanks!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on June 04, 2020, 01:19:28 PM

Hector, thank you for that parts diagram. I've looking for exactly that but all I found was the exploded diagram without individual parts descriptions... in English.

I needed it for my D48, so I just edited the URL and there it was! Finally.

PS
One of the pins that hold the action in, the rear one, keeps backing out after a lot of shooting, and hits the stock. I just tap it back in which works for a while. Should I be more firm in seating it... or is there another remedy?

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on June 04, 2020, 01:29:30 PM

Matt, concerning the centering of the trigger pins...

Despite repeated centering of those pins they kept moving off-center and stopping only because they hit the stock. After doing the various trigger mods I put retaining rings on them and a dab of VC-3 to make me feel better. They haven't moved since. For those trigger mods, most came from Hector's blogs with a few tips here on the forum. The one picture I went by for the retaining rings is also in Hector's blogs, here: https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/archives/01-2016 (https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog/archives/01-2016) .

Incidentally, one of my trigger mods came from my own background... I modified the rear trigger spring by heating the bottom two coils with a micro torch and semi collapsed them. It's a big improvement for me... and the, now, progressive action of the spring allows a wide tension range from low to too much... instead of starting with too much lol.

For the retaining rings, nothing I had fit properly so I ordered a kit from Amazon that did the job... although I had to "size" some for the fit I wanted.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 04, 2020, 02:26:34 PM

The cleanup of the gunk looks GREAT!!! It should help!

What is the function of the black cup you show?  It certainly is not an original piece.  Is it part of the bipod that someone else had installed??

The little silver-colored washer you have in the wooden hole looks too small and perhaps too thin.  Mine have a black washer that fits the hole nearly perfectly and is about 1/16" thick.  While I may be over analyzing, it seems to my eye that the wood is depressed near the hole.  Probably because of the shape of that cup not fitting the hole properly.   The bottom of the hole is supposed to be flat.  It is possible that someone drilled it out a bit or the nose of the cup did the damage when tightened too much. 

There are those who recommend inletting a cup into the stock to improve its holding power and to protect the wood.  NCED does a lot of this.  It is sort of like pillar bedding used in tactical rifles.  I doubt you need that though since the recommended torques are so low. 

It is possible that you can't get the proper torque because the screw is bottoming out on the bronze fitting before it fully tightens.  A quickie test of this theory would be to  put another washer or two in the hole and test if it lets you get to the proper torque.  As has been said several times - do not exceed 30in/lb. 20inlb is what my toys like. 

My suggestion would be to check the depth of the hole through the stock and the bronze fitting to see if the screw is too long.  If it is, ACE Hardware generally has a fair selection of metric bolts and washers.  If you determine that the problem can be solved with a shorter screw and a thicker washer, GREAT! 

As you see ANY binding is too much!!!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 04, 2020, 02:56:56 PM

Did some more digging around!

This is from Eddie Colwell's unofficial Diana 54 site.  He has a lot of good information here. This is what he said about a bipod on the 54.  The Kevin he refers to was the owner of straight shooters.com who has since retired.  His partner Craig is now running it.


The Bipod                             

I was warned by Kevin from SS, the bipod is not suited for the M54. They are right. If you try to attach the bipod to the forearm screw, you will jam the recoil absorption rail for sure.

My solution:                 
Make a small "V" out of a piece of 2" conduit, add some pieces of rubber sheet, rubber hose, a screw and a nut, and you will have an excellent and very stable platform for LR hunting and shooting. Just let the forearm of your gun rest on top of the bipod, at the sweet spot you have determined for regular hold. This way you can also stabilize your gun against a wall or other inclined surface, very practical!

The washer you show looks like the attaching cup that is used in the bipod. 

This may be the source of all your recoil issues.

I found pictures of the bipod and other similar ones by googling Diana bipods.  In one of the pictures you can see what looks like your cup.

BY THE WAY! THE BOLT I SAW IN PICTURES OF THE BIPOD LOOKS LONGER THAN THE ORIGINAL BOLT WITHOUT THE BIPOD.  I'LL BET YOU HAVE THE LONGER BOLT!!!!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 05:45:32 PM

I feel like dummy.  I googled some pics of 54s and NONE of them have anything extending below the stock the way mine does.  I can't believe I did not notice that before!   I'll see if I can find a shorter bolt that would work with and better washer.  Can someone post a pic of what your front screw and washer looks like?

On a different note I shot some quick targets during lunchtime;  while the changes alone (cleaned sleds) didn't seem to make much difference, I found a change in shooting technique on the last few groups had a positive effect.  I have been struggling with the height of the ZR mount and received some sage advice regarding the simple solution of adding a cheek riser on the comb.  While I don't have one (yet...) , I modified how I'm placing my my face on the stock.  I found that by resting my jaw on the stock (to get a good view through the scope) and placing downward pressure on the stock, I was able to see some better groups within my group start to form.

Here's a fairly typical target shot at 37 yards with jsbs (15.9 and 18s are pretty similar with how they "group").   

MEH...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cNiul-wfFQ92X5uiuioy9aCBZc8PWvxiS55b7PMgUa0YaxLuVuyWDLbteMj9QPLhv2zNqhD2I4Zkpo6wCUeGkG3A40-0iCDefVl6KrB0kJC5nFn4_VpadlSM5hxBUU7lGSgJcpuk8ssn3aOEGjxcjrHw=w1147-h903-no?authuser=0)


Here the bottom two groups showed some promise (3 and 4 shots in a nice tight group at 37 yards).  The middle group still fell apart a bit, but I hope some more shooting trying  focus on better pressure on the stock will help:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dOr46c-BtzC1jj7ytoaj8LtfczifhQJSZhPhw6VIfw101XJu3V2SkqVe696kcsBtwMtAqge6p7S1amkYIUOEdWS8zHoUME_tYvaxF7Kd8Ydq_DObN0oDwFM1kMWFFnJP7-v3cBIMWD4ydflnA8u4lAYw=w1184-h903-no?authuser=0)


Thanks!

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:17:33 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 01:09:04 PM

Sorry for the vague post and question.  The part I was asking about is #87.  This guy:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/xnGzruNNFWnDTSpMJBP3fQayWaffkntXDPOHf03cJX_X1yxynRHlvhRAoy1uQ7w0R7S-MJwqcH2z82VCk1mibVpyYmooW37Y0Y22i_I6frEPGD-Dxf97RhOVDfWR6qQs_c4AmWye8ef6CBwGQObUzNWiKrF6AYgV-ps0IozMtGPqF-F5_ARERC_xEELwm0PBgCjLHQISnqGn_1ce9tNQQijEL155_Xbpl6Tx8Ih6wGTivzYPlcm2cFOAHKOcCpd6dbTVuhhFPnC0FJsEf_LqOG-4WXkbHrlWDRmvitMYrmqEZXybOiiFUCs9OocN3ZvwwC7xX04zHWce6YT4a9f-FPCg6RV9xHFwK0YDn9VD9OIzdWCBC2L3hNfqkhqho4avlMTF_1zeT9PdtV0q3Zz0KvyPQHWq_wYZu0ajF4a0kSJG0AT0CBdVol8SjEuCGqsGrlPPJlPJ6NqFhcM8dQ7vkYx8oKfvUDSvlgpdPeYFznu3FcZWjxs6TiM3bZzxtT-D7hlWBpVbdmpwM0toLhpzkD_YcpCJFYW5O7otjwXh3QDsuP1fPXC6O5eWKeC-V_qRGTByPKk7_-8hpXt06WelR1Lb9S0Ih89m9VA59Jr4oH5vmdo1xfCZbD7Vj9QbXYeeGMMv-Ft-PYplV0EhXlFo4BECynoqjBMSp6vv0hY3mzQXEmBTVtng7GtJ0Qjmdb4=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

And this is the additional washer I was referring to:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/sxdmQej-QKoKKZUm4q6Cq7Va0l-kQTz_jDL0oP0xrkCp7__n3t9UTBRNLguaxQAr9X-53_GjNjEHdy9QCi-oDZlbnR1QarJrL9rnsp0sBbyovt0Noo9AVyCE_BxA3TMiCeMobjYsA4mwS_Ewthzvevc_TQfZz8Pyrx3NjZzxuNSSb68M_nzwbHnfjU0BP2HNlU4frITQaCTcImRz0cRMeS2dwqXwLWmitCd-uMT3xLYkutGGzoOzE6P8Hreu093dXTGvQp99Si8wGMjAARbQbHGCkGRSYNPj-BrlP6vS1GG7k1g7cDILwnyRrPhQ134Jr4ZX9uSEbd8gurE7qedNK7yYLREev3kajcAW378ToTDT5r9udRYZrqFg7pJX8cklVJhPCQFqdaAW71tMQmoA64B_DgK5T7o0C7hhrxqFe1TOVeRwLJU0CLlYkoqXDBooFu8S3yPzny5NwGFftmOsVLsrwC3KNNSk8FJuYxAXZPvq7TCY9pFc9UTAXNsFroT9MbXpLYuZU_ty-pySmqNrnG9DsgIcggR-I1MR0Gviuk8JRcJYj-KQSig8ztIXKqVVz4PGrkdLqaKrvjBGJzmPsMfTuxx3zfZb1dyBtFv0sNVnxb-Lhw4k0-zm-tAQ72-gHiObZ1JePVE_NnA75EgcMF9TbIUvseHwTriLMvd0mAeZo0VsrtYMsIUPj_LuQQo=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

It seems like without the washer, the stock is being pulled unevenly to the action causing binding.  The washer allows (presumably) a more even tightening and lets me get nearer to the 25 inch pounds of torque that's been recommended.  The sled action still seems to get tight (harder to move) much lower than that.  I'm guessing 15 inch pounds is where the action seems to have its best and smoothest movement. 

I did remove all the grease from the sleds:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/GVmAwdoU4U229351DAlRReSZL-UyaC6JWOirNJHA-aZ6DUixDJP7Q5c_s-3j6eMfEFBLbQ3jp19s4pQ_KIbwrNDZuCRQ_A0RKywwAw11RyjcE07tkM_a9uhyqdK-7XO8Wrl9kzEYBFvPIs8AmcAOht5PXVnokzmSQ0NOHY3LzUz3vHP6mZ0iSBWwDaK1WlZUnmalSDNvGCzkmcBLSltIe5XcQnuuLVImiCzSgs1ODl5wgvZlA_k7HfXdEPUySpqz_NntzTbVoZP7uGFomb6jkl6RSI2Rsv9HplF-FsTNbYAqqG6IjTDOwiNOR0By2BlYKAyWEaogBwC1VXwxMYzHv4yBCJQJIZC8KqidjTY0zzLZXhHMSpu5SmQefSdME-vTjsb9lLiH0wN4PwBp6SUI0bJ5QLQXCBg5lXLw9IRfYblQSaG3MgGLhLdjP5ilyHXW3YNoAcF8DHX1XXdaIIXm1QBqMoHG2ql9X95uqpmI7Hkuo8OdCbxPw7zHR5wIW48RigyYl1QIBlYg1tFmkNcRp2XTHP2v24P7Ra3by86UCugYUxt10sh5e4zmEme72xxeW8qAw-cCNkBNQ9wqewJdeKjO2imZkql0LI6xB6YJwV3fyZhT85Yj9SNy2TmtbXPMoRBjA5U-uH6LIUjzHph6QDJaxVtn9QXtUSB3VDDDqD3UmvI06YhCnK0UBzOrKtY=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/6PzS3PDNw97ErZ-2Fwk9Wdg-LPoIaBsVToTkWlz9n5ba8n2tkNjPkwyvijCTXOaWHnnon9Ni9W3Fl-2-yN-KmKsYm70mcLwPyG-jvfSqFuYlyFGCtn1MdqXSe2hljogiJFkl0xivUr4Jq6RPsTP31aVOlEIMllTxXgHLMes4QXbGVn_24xlRZL8Wt3jvdZmMbeQBB_PpUfE0dNO7ns4HnqUmT8EdizDvUklIDI_Zey4nTYFWJs6u4-5kstwczqDuUCFpn4kN9Z2WgiZgx4J7daxaGI5iTkTcbHSx83EFkZbhwFzXhumV1FZQEG0FSySUPMSQcq51NklAlpBKlAczSOClqrs3igXEnuC3lsKoVFhyQ9kesoerMv5vIbxKp0KUa08hJDPpIyQ8PDhVIHXuYN-vpNy_ccp1g-1Zl7ugtUwNAMYKmHCej6_cW9ZqvvOYfj7ps1nPedEFm5jeubeuNdtR-esx30xx2ZNPFpgIMQDHuMoth68pZ0q1bAXhG7NGUEPaGrtE3LU52ROgn4WBnKJaw9EwrbfJKNxELTn-xWljdBrhDfM98C7yCevAYujbd9ZKsfLMcEAGzMJzW8np9cWhFQLryChGCasg2iNGaQbOzGxAOJWhPZ2Z-i8BfWxF4txsuJ5wNtkakVosiFcyR79r1cQzuoHDqafsTC1haKViTTCr1QBJK-6Fkfk7R0A=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

But most importantly I noticed these wear marks on the metal guard that surrounds the trigger assembly.  A careful bending of these arms outward and centering of the trigger pins seems to have relieved the points of contact here:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kH-99kNY1FIszmK2FSH8xhsIMHgj9yijVpq0cDP_JZ5MgYXaLS2PDskoInD6X-JZD503TV-S3wNwW5JjYlGCAzc3M_6wUCEgFmqBzd2SzOhoth0NOiEVcV7SLeh0VIRd9byd3dyxFBd-SZdl6Rv66TDXeIbuRMwbNgc4U3pVd2NHhMk3tM3PKgidKVmc1n754IDJbWg8EXBYL9H_p7ih7gzjBi3hcGHkvilWA70_hZQ18zXfi8WeoOVc7DZCFi7KBDGz60mDysM9HxQvHXCajwn5NTBUOa-5U7Ex-QHxBQQOCeWqvrwO6j20yJy8c362wtvwn8VVgcIt8Caz9iaUc6wQhi66Fgq2uIcJzpZFJipbE8lEtBTj9gK9Ljv-Y6uQTbg5byKYpTNDyBhS2wxgBBuUy8JF2Dq1r9SCwtnnnCmnpT0tm0FedQ_GzplMTYrRJDPCoQ61qGrGa3xGK2HzfP59OIiDWKim_Li2nvYBnWQXTpqqPz0JAeyNgtYxrvo5sTPw_jcVwhGsukXEummtmPKVyG3UqL5q32pSxeLRwAW5l3vrtATZsPWyNzwDq9Yfwwa9odGATJk7STBAIqZ7X4YN7ED5SF15Zq4yRHtI4DHAn3npuO8ooq69I7As6EFNF1XPpIfz050l-0E3ZU42XrJzZqr9i4Bm0dySEKkMWksK8atFYKs9-8WZmZwAVkY=w1605-h903-no?authuser=0)

We'll see if this has any impact on the accuracy of the rifle...

Thanks!

Sorry Matt, but I don't get ANY of your pictures. Just "Wrong sense" road signs.

Part in position 87 is NOT plastic. It is a thick metal washer with a recess made for a DIANA specific screw.

All the rest is completely beyond me, as I cannot see your pictures.

In any case, if you substitute the whole washers assembly with the self-leveling washers we talked about, there is one little trick to using them:
When the screws are almost snug, lift the gun and give it a slight shake. Then put the gun back down and tighten them. You can go as high as you want and the sleds will STILL be in line.
If you skip the shake, then even with the washers the action can bind by uneven seating.

Sorry!



HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:23:59 PM

Quote from: Fate on June 04, 2020, 01:19:28 PM

Hector, thank you for that parts diagram. I've looking for exactly that but all I found was the exploded diagram without individual parts descriptions... in English.

I needed it for my D48, so I just edited the URL and there it was! Finally.

PS
One of the pins that hold the action in, the rear one, keeps backing out after a lot of shooting, and hits the stock. I just tap it back in which works for a while. Should I be more firm in seating it... or is there another remedy?

Fate.- I have already written here about DIANA's commitment to inform and "educate" the shooters. And we stand by our words, if you go here:

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists (https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists)

You will find as much information as we can put out there for a LOT of guns. From the old models to the new ones. Notably missing are the chinese origin guns, for a reason. But apart from that, everything that is truly DIANA, is there for the last 50 years.

Have fun looking at the 66, 75, and other diagrams that belong to the past!

;-)





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:38:39 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on June 04, 2020, 05:45:32 PM

I feel like dummy.  I googled some pics of 54s and NONE of them have anything extending below the stock the way mine does.  I can't believe I did not notice that before!   I'll see if I can find a shorter bolt that would work with and better washer.  Can someone post a pic of what your front screw and washer looks like?

It could also be that 54's NEED a tight hold.
The stock/sled is performing the artillery hold for you, so the stock needs to be as stationary as possible, so that the sled adjustment takes over. Your "firm jaw" contact point is providing just that, but in a non-consistent way.

BTW, your scope is on the way, I'll send a cheekpiece along with it and you can test it.

This is not one of my guns, it is Mitch's, but it is (so far) an OEM gun (under running in). So this is how YOUR gun should look like in the front:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3667/oQ3sWB.jpg)

At the rear:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/9348/vnRNck.jpg)

Anything different, is NOT OEM.

HTH







HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on June 04, 2020, 06:44:43 PM

Quote from: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:23:59 PM

Quote from: Fate on June 04, 2020, 01:19:28 PM

Hector, thank you for that parts diagram. I've looking for exactly that but all I found was the exploded diagram without individual parts descriptions... in English.

I needed it for my D48, so I just edited the URL and there it was! Finally.

PS
One of the pins that hold the action in, the rear one, keeps backing out after a lot of shooting, and hits the stock. I just tap it back in which works for a while. Should I be more firm in seating it... or is there another remedy?

Fate.- I have already written here about DIANA's commitment to inform and "educate" the shooters. And we stand by our words, if you go here:

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists (https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists)

You will find as much information as we can put out there for a LOT of guns. From the old models to the new ones. Notably missing are the chinese origin guns, for a reason. But apart from that, everything that is truly DIANA, is there for the last 50 years.

Have fun looking at the 66, 75, and other diagrams that belong to the past!

;-)





HM

Hector, I've gone to that website before when you mentioned it... but I still don't speak German and I see no language button to change it???

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 04, 2020, 09:21:53 PM

I changed my stock screws to Allen-headed Metric screws of the same length to make the torquing more precise.  The original were Phillips head screws. 

Another observation from your first set of pictures -just noticed- With the black cup in its position in the hole, it doesn't lay flat on the stock and would not return to the same position each time.  The stock is curved and the cup bottom isn't.

I also noted that someone installed a sling swivel just ahead of the stock screw on Matt's gun.  It appeared to be set in epoxy or similar.  Might take a peek to see if he drilled all the way through and added more to the problem.

Hector: as you may recall, you gave me a set of the self-adjusting washers.  I didn't use them because they set the action too high and made the trigger difficult.  I also didn't want to overdrill the wood in the stock and make it any weaker than it already is. 

Matt:  Hector sold me a pair of his super-duper cheek pieces that raise my eye line over half an inch.  It is the only such cheek piece I have ever seen that is the right size to fit over a Monte-Carlo type stock.  They make my eye align perfectly with the center of the scope axis.  Haven't shot with them much but did have it on when I shot 9 chipmunks in one sitting out my kitchen window.  I have a real infestation!!!  That puts my grand-total just over 400 in the past 5 years!!

As for tightness of hold, I don't hold them any different than my powder arms and ignore the artillery hold nonsense.  As Hector noted, the action does it for you.  My first serious air rifle is the FWB300 that convinced me. Note my list below!!! I did have a break barrel Walther Force 1000 that I could never get to shoot anywhere well.  I also have two friends who bought Gamo break-barrels that they couldn't shoot well either.  On the other hand, my grandson's break barrel (ruger branded 34 knockoff) isn't hold sensitive at all. 

Hopefully you are zeroing in on the problem and can get even better results.  Although at 50 yds or so, you are doing great in outdoor shooting (wind you know!!)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on June 04, 2020, 09:58:03 PM

Quote from: Fate on June 04, 2020, 06:44:43 PM

Quote from: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:23:59 PM

Quote from: Fate on June 04, 2020, 01:19:28 PM

Hector, thank you for that parts diagram. I've looking for exactly that but all I found was the exploded diagram without individual parts descriptions... in English.

I needed it for my D48, so I just edited the URL and there it was! Finally.

PS
One of the pins that hold the action in, the rear one, keeps backing out after a lot of shooting, and hits the stock. I just tap it back in which works for a while. Should I be more firm in seating it... or is there another remedy?

Fate.- I have already written here about DIANA's commitment to inform and "educate" the shooters. And we stand by our words, if you go here:

https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists (https://www.diana-airguns.de/en/service/spare-parts-lists)

You will find as much information as we can put out there for a LOT of guns. From the old models to the new ones. Notably missing are the chinese origin guns, for a reason. But apart from that, everything that is truly DIANA, is there for the last 50 years.

Have fun looking at the 66, 75, and other diagrams that belong to the past!

;-)





HM

Hector, I've gone to that website before when you mentioned it... but I still don't speak German and I see no language button to change it???

OK, I found the English version. Finally. :)

Thanks for not responding and making me feel dumber than I do right now. It's only taken me a month or two....

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 05, 2020, 09:08:26 AM

Quote from: dtdtdtdt on June 04, 2020, 09:21:53 PM

I changed my stock screws to Allen-headed Metric screws of the same length to make the torquing more precise.  The original were Phillips head screws. 

Another observation from your first set of pictures -just noticed- With the black cup in its position in the hole, it doesn't lay flat on the stock and would not return to the same position each time.  The stock is curved and the cup bottom isn't.

I also noted that someone installed a sling swivel just ahead of the stock screw on Matt's gun.  It appeared to be set in epoxy or similar.  Might take a peek to see if he drilled all the way through and added more to the problem.

Hector: as you may recall, you gave me a set of the self-adjusting washers.  I didn't use them because they set the action too high and made the trigger difficult.  I also didn't want to overdrill the wood in the stock and make it any weaker than it already is. 

Matt:  Hector sold me a pair of his super-duper cheek pieces that raise my eye line over half an inch.  It is the only such cheek piece I have ever seen that is the right size to fit over a Monte-Carlo type stock.  They make my eye align perfectly with the center of the scope axis.  Haven't shot with them much but did have it on when I shot 9 chipmunks in one sitting out my kitchen window.  I have a real infestation!!!  That puts my grand-total just over 400 in the past 5 years!!

As for tightness of hold, I don't hold them any different than my powder arms and ignore the artillery hold nonsense.  As Hector noted, the action does it for you.  My first serious air rifle is the FWB300 that convinced me. Note my list below!!! I did have a break barrel Walther Force 1000 that I could never get to shoot anywhere well.  I also have two friends who bought Gamo break-barrels that they couldn't shoot well either.  On the other hand, my grandson's break barrel (ruger branded 34 knockoff) isn't hold sensitive at all. 

Hopefully you are zeroing in on the problem and can get even better results.  Although at 50 yds or so, you are doing great in outdoor shooting (wind you know!!)

David;

I recess the self-levelling washers in wood stocks. In my Match stock the action sits higher but the whole thing is much more massive. Extra room allows me ease of mind under the rain, it will get in, but it does have room to get out.
Stock is still thick enough to allow a good strength even with the washers recessed about 1/2 of the thickness of the concave one because the wood is acting under compression of a VERY LARGE area. Unlike the side screws that are really small areas. That  is when wood can fail.

I'm glad you're finding the cheekpieces useful. AND they do add character to the guns. LOL!

Keep well and shoot more chipmunks!







HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 05, 2020, 09:09:53 AM

Quote from: Fate on June 04, 2020, 09:58:03 PM

OK, I found the English version. Finally. :)

Good!

And even better that you're keeping a sense of humour about all this.

;-)





HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Mossonarock on June 05, 2020, 09:31:03 AM

Quote from: HectorMedina on June 04, 2020, 06:17:33 PM

In any case, if you substitute the whole washers assembly with the self-leveling washers we talked about, there is one little trick to using them:
When the screws are almost snug, lift the gun and give it a slight shake. Then put the gun back down and tighten them. You can go as high as you want and the sleds will STILL be in line.
If you skip the shake, then even with the washers the action can bind by uneven seating.

I appreciate that tip! I'm going to try it on my D56. I'm guessing that part of the purpose of the shake is to give the sleds a chance to align themselves with the rails since tightening the screws can "rotate" the sleds a bit so that they aren't in-line with the rails and may rub weird against the rails.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 05, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

Sorry about the missing pictures in my earlier post.  I can't go back and edit that post, so here they are again.  Front stock fastener cap and the washer I have placed under it to help prevent the binding:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cEkGHXMHGiTIv-njw3CIAJXuTyTvdd-3XDdO4DkLdOb_qIb6FeHGpDEYk_LVsZG2H1L66NRVx6xzyyIGT9YDf2OOB1Z3H59bJqP2a8_VdxM_A8pbAVBkBJqzsSCcA3eZyu0PGXuE3F-D0TLqNAQwmWDA=w1605-h903-no)

And this is how it sits when together  :o

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eXFkCzbspqrw1dlI4bLffTkrZ3z9ppilVBV4aj9eruMzI2C_7Yhf11f1dbbL18AbEDZuOk8BUvsCwvEqE6CJ2xqFcLkCcw686lh1t_xHpRaktsKi4yxwh4Ypyv3HaDqlMmlHRmXF8YVQ5Wn2_QUlNG_A=w1605-h903-no)

And the wear marks on the side of the guard that sits around the trigger assembly:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c_u1ZBIKfNma9LlQP8cGxn0K1o372N8q374xuquZD7aFk5-NTPmmRG3G7E2EIvDu4FBvwim5ZLypbPzfjEl48vz9Vpk6RsCmFwkvmPqtqW3Fqnj48RpZ7zrU2i_TfrJ_anE_cC2lC81ZU6brQ8vbmqCA=w1605-h903-no)

And the sleds after cleaning them up (note, I did add the oring at the rear of the front sled based on one of the "guides" I found):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dTJ_g4e0OZ0FyMDLWn0SVUT18EEo82uO6VeVvfVpMaeBsaHRbkDTtf9cM5H9XmWPDaYHUMIpc4a8RcZHvN6U4C7gPUW05tZ34BEOdjivVKfOrysccyBNQCVQJCVxsIcvQuRoRyVET20L-aMu_uxTasqw=w1605-h903-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dBqDiMsZyLNENyJeJyPSFyeubKGvsj9NtXR3TK5DYceBwNm8V-Afqlkmplxl0HkLXibyTaT8dlNnZQv6KbKiqoiSMf_VHY_-8Wy5fEpB2ZgIAAHX21dxC3A89_iGclKEtlV9Edx95_OeVP-_6N-jQW7g=w1605-h903-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 05, 2020, 10:10:37 AM

I had a PERFECTLY windless morning today to test the *new-to-me* high-pressure jaw hold on the d54.  This, in combination with a action that is less bound-up (even at a measured 25 in pounds of torque at the front) gave me two of the best 37 yard groups that I have shot (top two bullseyes).  Note: the stickers I am using are exactly 1/2 inch and these were the end of a tin of JSB 18s.  The bottom right group opened WAY up and shifted even more to the right.  The bottom-right and center were back to being nothing special.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fz953y17COzkg9UkGPZZpSlR9VjQLuGW4O7iqZy1xzGshsZ5P3tLv4RKkwKlUbrJZijzMtxx3Mz0XOVbdLLxAjW4_gRoqg2c9VAFAPlyJ6VhlaFVm3Z7fQRZrw6M-EB9ZCWiBKYq9Gf68_wQ9UnQdw-w=w1167-h903-no)


I then moved the target out to 53 yards and shot 5 more groups of 5-shots.  My first group was the "sighter" target on the right.  And there is the best group I have shot at this distance.   The top left was my next group, then top-right, bottom-left and then bottom-right.  I'm getting the clear impression that it takes my scope a bunch (like 15) shots to settle in after making adjustments.  Hmmm.....

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cy40i16Pr2xN-Cvra1evYupKhNlB3AoRLOp4iW-3no6HvJwFJrEzq4HjSRcyyUPnh1Y8aTMYRD95_Adb2uox6tAgJN7gF8Ye-IXDizLEfAE8PLhEWBibI_O9AiD2LA0YAALsFhG1cRl20gAeeBiwjSMQ=w1228-h903-no)

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 05, 2020, 01:42:40 PM

Matt:

Note the compression marks from the black cup on the silver washer.  Clearly it had really been tight! 

Suggest putting a couple of those washers together in the hole if you can't find any bigger ones in the short term.  The one that is there is deformed.

The groups are great!!! It could also be the action settling in.  Also you might check the scope ring torques. 

They should be 18-20inlb and no higher than 25.  Might also check the clamping bolts 35inlb is good.  NOT OVER 40INLB IN ALUMINUM.  I DID some destructive testing with old ring parts and found that just above 40inlb the threads will strip out of the rings with the 6x32 screws normally used. 

Is your torque wrench newish or oldish? I have two of the FAT wrenches one about 10yr old and the other just out of the box.  It is quite a bit stiffer than the old.  My primary standard is a certified one from Matco Tool (my son is a vp there!)

is the scope newish and has it lived on a high energy springer without the ZR?  It might be sick?

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 05, 2020, 02:24:35 PM

Hi Dave,

Actually the washer is a pretty recent addition to try to free up the movement of the sled.  I can say confidently that it has not been tighter than 25  inch pounds as measured by my highly accurate harbor freight torque wrench   ::)

Yes, I will certainly be replacing the black plastic cup with something recessed.  Could I trouble you or an other 54 owner to give me the size and length of the hex screw that you use here (and in the rear action fastener too)? 

The scope is a 8-32 AEON which has not been on a springer before.  I has had focus issues with it in the past, but is presently good and clear (at 16x anyway).  I put this scope on the 54 both as a  test of the ZR mount  (knowing the AEON is NOT springer rated)  and honestly not really caring if it gets destroyed in the process.  I may try swapping a SWFA SS 16X back on this gun again now that I'm beginning to see reasonable accuracy from it.

I'm not sure that I trust my HF torque wrench enough to try it on my rings.  I feel pretty confident that my careful scope tightening process is holding fast.  There's not any external looseness to how the scope is being held in place on the gun.  However, internally in the scope may have some problems as the wider groups after adjustments indicate.  My next thought is to shoot another set of five 5-shot groups without touching the turrets and we'll see how it does.  After that will be the SWFA swap.

Thanks for the kind words regarding the groups.  We're getting there!  Thanks to everyone for your help, advice, and insight throughout this testing! 

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: HectorMedina on June 05, 2020, 03:06:17 PM

Quote from: mcoulter on June 05, 2020, 09:56:45 AM

Sorry about the missing pictures in my earlier post.  I can't go back and edit that post, so here they are again.  Front stock fastener cap and the washer I have placed under it to help prevent the binding:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3cEkGHXMHGiTIv-njw3CIAJXuTyTvdd-3XDdO4DkLdOb_qIb6FeHGpDEYk_LVsZG2H1L66NRVx6xzyyIGT9YDf2OOB1Z3H59bJqP2a8_VdxM_A8pbAVBkBJqzsSCcA3eZyu0PGXuE3F-D0TLqNAQwmWDA=w1605-h903-no)

And this is how it sits when together  :o

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3eXFkCzbspqrw1dlI4bLffTkrZ3z9ppilVBV4aj9eruMzI2C_7Yhf11f1dbbL18AbEDZuOk8BUvsCwvEqE6CJ2xqFcLkCcw686lh1t_xHpRaktsKi4yxwh4Ypyv3HaDqlMmlHRmXF8YVQ5Wn2_QUlNG_A=w1605-h903-no)

And the wear marks on the side of the guard that sits around the trigger assembly:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3c_u1ZBIKfNma9LlQP8cGxn0K1o372N8q374xuquZD7aFk5-NTPmmRG3G7E2EIvDu4FBvwim5ZLypbPzfjEl48vz9Vpk6RsCmFwkvmPqtqW3Fqnj48RpZ7zrU2i_TfrJ_anE_cC2lC81ZU6brQ8vbmqCA=w1605-h903-no)

And the sleds after cleaning them up (note, I did add the oring at the rear of the front sled based on one of the "guides" I found):

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dTJ_g4e0OZ0FyMDLWn0SVUT18EEo82uO6VeVvfVpMaeBsaHRbkDTtf9cM5H9XmWPDaYHUMIpc4a8RcZHvN6U4C7gPUW05tZ34BEOdjivVKfOrysccyBNQCVQJCVxsIcvQuRoRyVET20L-aMu_uxTasqw=w1605-h903-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3dBqDiMsZyLNENyJeJyPSFyeubKGvsj9NtXR3TK5DYceBwNm8V-Afqlkmplxl0HkLXibyTaT8dlNnZQv6KbKiqoiSMf_VHY_-8Wy5fEpB2ZgIAAHX21dxC3A89_iGclKEtlV9Edx95_OeVP-_6N-jQW7g=w1605-h903-no)

Forgive me, but I have to say that I hate it when people do such things.
CLEARLY that plastic piece is crooked. Is it sane to expect the gun to shoot straight?

Anyway, I am glad you are getting the hang of it. Those are great groups.

I have begun shooting 10 shot groups, there is a strong statistical methodology to that, we'll discuss that in a future blog entry.

My worry now is that you do not have the OEM washers:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/3822/mfGs7x.jpg)

I usually use Allen headed screws because my guns get broken down and reassembled often:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/9071/GuXUHs.jpg)

But that is just me.

M6X10 work with the OEM setup. M6X12 are required for the self-levelling washers, unless you recess the concave ones by 2 mm's into the stock. Front and rear screws are identical.

I would feel better if you let me send you the washers and the screws along with your scope. Otherwise, you are setting the gun up for failure.

AEON's are notorious for needing a few shots to settle in, even in the ZR mounts.

Keep well and shoot straight!






HM

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 08, 2020, 10:37:04 AM

In this interest of statistics (wink, wink) I did some more shooting which later included some 10-shot groups.   ;)  Until the very end of my shooting session it was a windless evening.  This 54 is beginning to show its potential but we're not there yet. 

In fact I can't get the word "occult" out of my head regarding this particular rifle.  I'm not using this word to describe the rifle in any sort of evil manner, but using the word to describe the way it shoots as still being "hidden" or "secret" to me.   It's there, but I'm just beginning to uncover it.  This ONE group on this target has convinced me that the work I'm putting into this rifle is not wasted time, energy, or pellets:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3f4iTkNyp2hgrlw0GJRCuuV3tXjKAAqgfj4nOrIwwYHDPofmgAIokxg5QqDNDaBeVafiUvFhnp3ELPeBdt75iL2Tr1IR_WZrEZsBamykecFhNhtFXOEJ2Kk5ikxJk9bb4FiChYvOxGLuRsBFjv93NIEMA=s726-no?authuser=0)

That group is 10-shots at 50 yards. WITH A LOOSE HOLD.  Yup, this gun keeps me guessing because earlier in the day I had convinced myself that the gun wanted/needed a firm hold with a firm cheeck (jaw?) weld.   

And here are the targets leading up to this point.  This one was MEH again.  Note: I had left the gun in my shed on a warm day so I did re-torque the stock screws prior to shooting group #4 below.  I'm still wondering how environmental conditions affect the behavior and accuracy of the rifle.  Often I "sneek" out to my backyard for some shooting.  I am fortunate enough to have central air and we keep our house pretty cold (and dry).  I do try to bring my rifles outside and let them sit (when possible), but this isn't always the case.  I suspect that the 54 may need more time to acclimate when moving from inside to outdoors...

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fmmM7bu-1p1XhTjzo8LjUobBamXE3vgGwHqdY5DzTWD4t0qqRTLVJNq09PMoZF4ZyU31TbcOVBrQN9NR-SjsYTGWWExhLPTqtseDi-tz-_zm60cA5wRBNCqCri3vWovBMXQWe0nAUX-iKwprW5ZlkLfA=w896-h726-no?authuser=0)

The next target was better.  I decided to make the center target a 10-shot group:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3fcBpq53W7sh8exJUhH9EFrD5MsnvFephpEULClxCNXQxLc-4Z9A5op4jWrWsaiwW2GuL1iPAGfYDoouxJdE1i8EqOoE6Lgjc4Rk4Y5KRcAT17fnXTrv7EsRn9OMHKuyvSfnUSvu9Qoiz-QsEX5oRwTIw=w951-h727-no?authuser=0)

And in this last set of 50-shots is that humdinger of a group I posted as a close-up above.  Groups 4 and 5 is where the wind picked up. And the 1st group here is where my frustration set in and I reverted back to using a loose hold:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/pw/ACtC-3es_5UxRtCRU4gB5KGLJypGOaXV26cuOLpZaMYzaYk-Yk-VF7BNmP2BqPkgxsa6l7FXmsNQH-FZC4_wFgLM69A0D9rGqs0xISQ739NJo1wqbtKuGFbHq_FyMLgwCMJLWnPWXnEVZD3uUyf3HUyY9diOmA=w945-h727-no?authuser=0)

Anyway, sorry for what is probably boring detail here.  But if I don't write down what I'm doing, I am 100% certain I'll be chasing my tail and truly wasting pellets repeating the same stuff again in the future!   :o

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: Fate on June 08, 2020, 11:14:57 AM

Never boring or irrelevant Matt. It's posts like this that people like me, working to improve their rifles and skills, go by.

Keep trying. Keep shooting. Keep tinkering. It's the road we all have to travel.

I save my good groups, too, and show off my best ones to a buddy.  :) Haven't the guts yet to post anything on GTA.

But I throw the bad ones away.

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: dtdtdtdt on June 08, 2020, 12:14:38 PM

 Matt:  at 50 yds in questionable wind those groups aren't bad at all.  My suggestion now is to get a series of different pellets and test them with 10 shot groups at your preferred distance.  The long trigger pull in a standard 54 gave me fits when I first started.  I put a screw in the trigger to shorten that long-first stage and found improvement. 

I think I suggested earlier that you get the straightshooters pellet sampler that will give you 18 different pellets of varying weight and style (mostly round-nose though) in one kit.  It gives you 25 of each to try. 

I did tests several years ago of nearly 100 different pellets in my .177 54 and found markedly different results between very similar pellets.  I tested lead, non-lead, composite, and plated pellets.  Group sizes at 50' indoor ranged from less than .3" to 7". Yes, 7"!!!!!!  Typically, the best accuracy came with velocities around 850f/s and snug fit in the chamber.  A few non-lead pellets did quite well while only 1 composite pellet did well.  The plated pellets were questionable at best.  Wad-cutters did well at shorter distances.  The round-nose pellets carry their weight further forward and have slightly higher ballistic coefficients.  Higher weight pellets generally do better in windy environments.

There are so many posts in this string I have forgotten which pellet you are currently using.  I strongly urge you to test a broader range of pellets soon. I think you will learn something new!
 

Title: Re: Getting to know a 54
Post by: mcoulter on June 08, 2020, 02:18:59 PM

Quote from: Fate on June 08, 2020, 11:14:57 AM

Never boring or irrelevant Matt. It's posts like this that people like me, working to improve their rifles and skills, go by.

Keep trying. Keep shooting. Keep tinkering. It's the road we all have to travel.

I save my good groups, too, and show off my best ones to a buddy.  :) Haven't the guts yet to post anything on GTA.

But I throw the bad ones away.

Thanks for the kind words.  Between posts I make here and the log I keep of pics in Google photo albums I have a decent record of what I have done and tested. 

BTW, I use those targets when lighting bonfires.  It DOES give a certain satisfaction lighting them up  :-)

Dave, thanks for the reminder about straightshooter's pellet sampler.  I may give them a try. 

I have been shooting jsb 15.9 and 18.1 pellets pretty much exclusively.  In fact most JSB (14.3 included) group fairly similarly (with different points of impact however).    I do have a small amount of H&N FTT which seem to do pretty well.  I have not shot more than a few groups with them though.  It does not like polymags or superdomes at all.   I have not tested crosman pellets yet. 

I have had enough posts regarding this gun I'm starting to forget what I have or have not done yet! 

Here's my chrony and pellet testing post:

https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173554.msg155956209#msg155956209 (https://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=173554.msg155956209#msg155956209)