GTA
All Springer/NP/PCP Air Gun Discussion General => PCP/CO2/HPA Air Gun Gates "The Darkside" => Topic started by: Whatsquirrel on March 23, 2020, 06:48:41 PM
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Who’s shooting them & what kind of accuracy are y’all getting? I’m looking at getting some for my .177 syn rod. I haven’t found a pellet it likes yet out pass 15yrds. So I was gonna try some slugs out of it. At 15yrds I can get a single hole with 10.6 kodiak match but even at 18yrds it opens up to an 1”. Pellet flight is crazy at any speed. Ive done some valve work & ive got a double wound hammer spring for it. I’ve had the 10.6gr up to 1250fps before. So I’m thing maybe go with a heavier slug & see what’s happens. Also do the 21gr slugs fit the mrod magazine??
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You are shooting way to fast. Slow it down to pellet speeds and it will shoot just fine.
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Asw far as .177 slugs in a mrod I have had best luck with the ones under 21 grains, inch or so @ 30 yards, ok for busting a bunny perhaps.
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Anything above 860 - 880 in .117 is asking for bad accuracy.
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I had good luck out of the .177 Prod, SST with the 21gr slugs, about 900fps, at 50 yards w/thumbnail size groups. 100 yards a bit over 2.25" group.
All shots were tethered to a bottle, regged 3k PSI.
If I could get them to go faster I think my groups would be better at 100 yards. Also if I polished the barrel and sized the slugs that would help as well.
15gr slugs sucked at 25 yards for me, so I stopped there with wasting any time on them... Also if you can get the piledrivers to +950fps they should shoot great as well.
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I should have put in my OP that I’ve had it any where from 650-1000fps. And no FPS made any difference in pellet flight. I even had the barrel re-crowned.
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It is starting to sound like a barrel issue. :(
I think I would give Crosman a call. ;)
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It is starting to sound like a barrel issue. :(
I think I would give Crosman a call. ;)
Think it would be a waste of time calling crow man? I bought this thing a few years ago & had the it re-crowned to try & fix the issue.
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I'm with the other guys, I'm thinking barrel issue here. I'm assuming you've tried the heavier .177 options like the 13.4 and 16.2?
As far as the slugs are concerned, I've been able to get really good accuracy out of all three weights. I'm using a LW unchoked polygon barrel. They all do pretty well over 900 fps, but all the weights really shine at 1000 fps+ for me. I'm talking targets at 100+ yards are a cake walk. I've even hit targets well past 150 yards with the 15.5 and 18 grain. I haven't tried the 21 grain at those distances, since I only use them on the highest power/low shot count tunes.
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I'm with the other guys, I'm thinking barrel issue here. I'm assuming you've tried the heavier .177 options like the 13.4 and 16.2?
As far as the slugs are concerned, I've been able to get really good accuracy out of all three weights. I'm using a LW unchoked polygon barrel. They all do pretty well over 900 fps, but all the weights really shine at 1000 fps+ for me. I'm talking targets at 100+ yards are a cake walk. I've even hit targets well past 150 yards with the 15.5 and 18 grain. I haven't tried the 21 grain at those distances, since I only use them on the highest power/low shot count tunes.
same here Donny,
my at44-L shoots NSA 15.5gr hpfb slugs very well at over 1015-1025fps
with the factory hatsan barrel that has the choke removed.
i dont know why people say it can't be done ::)
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How did it shoot before the valve/spring mods?
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Some how I skipped a word. It should have read anything over 856 to 890 is an issue with PELLETS. Faster is usually better with slugs. ;)
Knife
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Just waiting on NSA to start producing them on the High Speed machines. When we can get 400+ .177 slugs for @ $19.00 similar to the larger calibers we already can off the high speed machines I will dive in head first !!
Have the guns capable of 1000 fps +& have barrels and the other required stuff to go small bore sluggin !
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Just waiting on NSA to start producing them on the High Speed machines. When we can get 400+ .177 slugs for @ $19.00 similar to the larger calibers we already can off the high speed machines I will dive in head first !!
Have the guns capable of 1000 fps +& have barrels and the other required stuff to go small bore sluggin !
That time is coming real soon! I've already tested some off the high speed machine, but he had to get a piece of the tooling for them remade, and I don't think he's settled on the final weights just yet.. The best I can understand, we are a matter of weeks away from low cost .177 slugs :D :D :D
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Just waiting on NSA to start producing them on the High Speed machines. When we can get 400+ .177 slugs for @ $19.00 similar to the larger calibers we already can off the high speed machines I will dive in head first !!
Have the guns capable of 1000 fps +& have barrels and the other required stuff to go small bore sluggin !
That time is coming real soon! I've already tested some off the high speed machine, but he had to get a piece of the tooling for them remade, and I don't think he's settled on the final weights just yet.. The best I can understand, we are a matter of weeks away from low cost .177 slugs :D :D :D
Just in time for SPRING TIME ground squirrel shooting !!!
Will keep watching his web site on the news of them being ready ???
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Very promising news! ;)
Knife
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I'm just minding my own bidness when this thread had to come along, and then that Hatsan build of Donny's popped up in my head.
I should probably focus on a .22 slug-gun build but .177 is Just More Appealing
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How did it shoot before the valve/spring mods?
It shot the same, no difference after the mods.
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Also I called crosman & ive got to email them the serial number off the gun, state my problem & wait to see what they say. But they’re not shipping anything right now die to the virus.
I’m actually thinking about the poly rifling barrel from lw. But we’ll see what happens.
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Also I called crosman & ive got to email them the serial number off the gun, state my problem & wait to see what they say. But they’re not shipping anything right now die to the virus.
I’m actually thinking about the poly rifling barrel from lw. But we’ll see what happens.
I'm pretty sure LW is still shipping barrels :D Of course, then you'd have to get that one machined.
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So it shoot poorly before the mods, still shoots poorly.... it's not the mods. Swap to something heavier(16gr. pellets or slugs) might help,but sounds like there is some other problem going on.
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I still have a .172 TJ's slug barrel here squirreled away. Only need to get a mold. ;)
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I still have a .172 TJ's slug barrel here squirreled away. Only need to get a mold. ;)
Sitting on a 1-22 TJ's 4 groove .172" barrel myself and no idea where to get affordable slugs for it being i don't cast.
Now if the .177 NSA slugs when they come out could be sized down ??? ... that die i could manufacture and get there affordably.
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Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work. ;)
Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all. It will run thru the die smooth as silk! 8)
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Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work. ;)
Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all. It will run thru the die smooth as silk! 8)
Michael,
When I got this barrel I did bush a few NSA .177's threw it. When measuring them ( the slug ) after the fact the 4 groove barrel fortunately leaves 180* land flats so there easily measured at @ .171" with the groove measuring at @ .177"
Now this is odd being Nick at NSA says DO NOT shoot his .177" slugs in .172" barrels ..... by my measuring and viewing the rifling witness marks on slug the fit appears to be perfect and not showing any signs of the barrels groove actually dragging on the O.D. of slug which is a NSA .177 size slug. Just nice even 4 land marks with no groove scrape / drag showing ???
Odd that the NSA
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Scott, this is very encouraging! I don't have any .177 slugs here, so I guess I'll have to get another mold before winter. LOL! ;) 8)
Thank you so much for the valuable information! Sure seem like high lands for such a small cal.
Mike
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I just checked the NOE specs. .172. this could be an issue. I need to call Cedric to see what the slugs actually cast to. Often they are larger than listed. I just took a tree Squirrel at 60 yd a few minutes ago. Guess Dumplings are in order tomorrow night. Yum!
Used the cg wrapped liner .221 barrel in the Mini Raptor. 32.4 slugs at 1006 average. Really stepping out there. Turned down a little for shot count.
This combo is coming alone. About 3/4" at 50, but 1/2 at 80. Really shows the going to sleep syndrome. Thinking fo micro porting the barrel to see if it can indeed alleviate this.
Mike
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Micro port as in "Magna port" or something else ?
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I shoot them out of a modded BNM Disco - I've taken rabbits out to 72 yards.
bucks wind better than pellets (not quite as well as a .22cal) - Maybe a 1" gun out to 50 yards but I consider dime size 30 yards and in.
Mew life to my .177 cal Disco
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Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)
I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.
One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.
Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.
Just one more thing to test. ;) 8)
Mike
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Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)
I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.
One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.
Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.
Just one more thing to test. ;) 8)
Mike
done via EDM machine or machined mechanically ?
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Scott, Yes, similar to magna porting. I have ported a LOT of handguns over the years for people, and it works wonders. ( If you can stand the louder report and muzzle pressure wave. Some can't)
I'm thinking the not going to sleep until down range a bit may be caused by the air blast not being completely even on the base of the bullet.
One Swaggers bullets I am testing have a very thin radius of lead proud of the base. (Thin walled cup) and am having issues with it. I removed the lip and they became instantly more accurate. Relieving the muzzle pressure a bit may very well help in some slugs in some cases Particularly at higher pressures.
Reading Shorty's results caused me to think about his a bit more.
Just one more thing to test. ;) 8)
Mike
done via EDM machine or machined mechanically ?
Scott, for years I lived in Huntsville ALA. Next to The huge Research and manufacturing Complex's that built the Space Shuttles. Many huge companies and I sold and bought machine tools for a industrial supply Company in ALA.
I could get things done that would blow your mind. Tech still not avaliable to the public. I moved to an area next to Ft. Hood. the largest military base in the U.S. I though it would be similar. Nope, More a third world country mentality. Heck, there is not so much as one real machine shop anywhere around here. Not one. EDM? ED What? Yep, it is that far behind the curve here. ;D
I got to play with EDM's when they were in their infancy. True leading tech. Now, it is just me and my small 1200 lb Knee mill. GRRRR!
But I can do a few things with it. LOL! Porting a bbl is pretty simple. Particularly if using carbide and milling at an angel which is top toward the receiver, and actual entrance to the bore toward the muzzle. It is very controllable if using good carbide an High RPM, there is virtual no burr and what is produced is quickly lapped out.
I would prefer very small holes radially that the longer Magna-Port (Registered trade mark) type. 1 to 1/1/2MM or no more than 2.5 mm should be smooth as glass.
With the ports so angled there would not be the issue of the lead being shaved as a straight 90 deg. cut would produce. this of course for slugs. I still feel it could damage pellet skirts as they are being continually forced to the bore id. And easily damaged. Only testing however would determine this for sure.
Mike
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MAybe we wandered off point....do not doubt that slugs and .177 can work.
The orginal post seemed more about curing an accuracy problem for a factory rifle that shot poorly un-modded, still shoots poorly modded, and has been tried at various speeds with pellets.
Is swapping to slugs going to fix that?
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Scott, I see no reason the NOE die would not work. ;)
Once the interior of the die is mirror polished, the 005 difference will feel like nothing at all. It will run thru the die smooth as silk! 8)
Michael,
When I got this barrel I did bush a few NSA .177's threw it. When measuring them ( the slug ) after the fact the 4 groove barrel fortunately leaves 180* land flats so there easily measured at @ .171" with the groove measuring at @ .177"
Now this is odd being Nick at NSA says DO NOT shoot his .177" slugs in .172" barrels ..... by my measuring and viewing the rifling witness marks on slug the fit appears to be perfect and not showing any signs of the barrels groove actually dragging on the O.D. of slug which is a NSA .177 size slug. Just nice even 4 land marks with no groove scrape / drag showing ???
Odd that the NSA
Nick in no doubt talking about the actual .172 slug barrel (HMR). Not the barrel you have. 172 barrel is a 1-9 twist. Your is much different with a much slower twist and bore spec.
Mike
Knife
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In the past day ... measuring / researching etc Have come to the conclusion the TJ's air gun barrels ARE NOT CLASSIFIED as .172" barrels even tho there land diameter at is that spec. Groove is .177 making them a .177 caliber AIR GUN PELLET & SLUG in specifications barrel. Along with being a standout in being 4 groove and offered in 18-1 and 22-1 twist specs.
Actual 172" barrels being the GROOVE diameter and the LAND specs smaller yet by @.005" ( .167"ish ) these for the .17 Rem, HMR ect powder burners using jacketed bullets.
GREAT NEWS ! Now to wait as stated earlier for NSA to get em made on the high speed equipment to become affordable !!
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Ok just had a minute to sit down!! My wife has me building rabbit cages or should say mansions!!
I’m gonna try & tear the barrel out of this thing & push a pellet through it to see what it feels like. If it feels ok I though about cutting the choke out of it & Getting some slugs to shoot out of it. What can it hurt?? 😎😎 That’ll just give me an excuse to definitely get new barrel. Or maybe even get a .25 top end for it.
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We are working on the 177 production. Our HP pins right now are a problem in the manufacturing process - breaking. I machined new pins and had them heat treated. I dropped them off at the grinder and will be a few weeks until I get them back still. These pins are held to +- .0001 so I can not hold that on my machine and the bottle neck is the grinder.
Once we get them back we will restart our testing. Results so far looking pretty good, like any ammo, some guns love em and some don't. Should restart testing mid April but the shutdowns my effect that well.
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Whatsquirrel (we've interacted before on line):
What I've been trying to ask in a delicate way may have to be stated in an indelicate way.
If it shot poorly before mods.
Shoots poorly after mods.
Shoots poorly after trying pellets at various velocities.
It could be (odds are pretty poor) that slugs could make it better...but the odd's on choice is that it won't..becasue something else is going on.
As for a new barrel.new mnods, have no doubt that slugs and .172-.177 (depending on the barrel) can match up and shoot well.
But it hasn't cured anything that was wrong in the first place other than a "wonky" barrel in the first place.
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Whatsquirrel (we've interacted before on line):
What I've been trying to ask in a delicate way may have to be stated in an indelicate way.
If it shot poorly before mods.
Shoots poorly after mods.
Shoots poorly after trying pellets at various velocities.
It could be (odds are pretty poor) that slugs could make it better...but the odd's on choice is that it won't..becasue something else is going on.
As for a new barrel.new mnods, have no doubt that slugs and .172-.177 (depending on the barrel) can match up and shoot well.
But it hasn't cured anything that was wrong in the first place other than a "wonky" barrel in the first place.
It takes a lot to for me to get upset. So nothing to me has to be done in a delicate way. 😎😎
If I understand what your saying is that more than likely it’s the barrel.
I’ve shot many different pellets & pellet weights. To no avail.
I’ve shot them at many different velocities. To no avail.
I’ve shot them with the shroud removed & at different velocities. To no avail.
So the only thing I could think of was the barrel. I think I’ll just get a barrel & see what happens.
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In the past day ... measuring / researching etc Have come to the conclusion the TJ's air gun barrels ARE NOT CLASSIFIED as .172" barrels even tho there land diameter at is that spec. Groove is .177 making them a .177 caliber AIR GUN PELLET & SLUG in specifications barrel. Along with being a standout in being 4 groove and offered in 18-1 and 22-1 twist specs.
Actual 172" barrels being the GROOVE diameter and the LAND specs smaller yet by @.005" ( .167"ish ) these for the .17 Rem, HMR ect powder burners using jacketed bullets.
GREAT NEWS ! Now to wait as stated earlier for NSA to get em made on the high speed equipment to become affordable !!
I don't know how the idea came from that the AG barrel are .172. The pellet barrels are .177.
TJ's also makes PB barrels, and they are the .172 and what I have here. Same with Cedric's HM-Air. Not a pellet .177 barrel. Two completely purposed barrels. As far as I know, this is the way it has been. Before and now.
Never, Ever have I seen or heard of TJ's pellet barrels being classified at any time as .172. Where is this coming from? Seems there is a HUGE misunderstanding here. One I tried to explain to Travis with the .22 and .250 barrels. it took him a while to wrap his head around it. He said he needed to call Nick to confirm what I told him. HUH? WTH???
Cedric Dyotat100, Roach
Creek, myself, Rifle50, and more recently Matt Dubber shoot more bullets than Nick ever dreamed of. For years before ANY ONE ever dreamed of swagging for our AIR Guns, much less marketing slugs. Many, many thousands. I shoot at least 200-500 a day and test different combos in an ongoing quest. Tons of research and experience between us.
And we don't operate on mathematical theory. We actually TEST! Paper, vermin. short range, Long Range, with years of experienced doing so.
Our slugs, their slugs. Other casters slugs, other swaggers slugs.
Where do people think the input comes from that Swaggers use to refine their products? From people like us!
It stuck in my craw more than a little bit!
And I gotta tell ya. I don't give a dayum what the twist calculator says, or a mathematician says. The proof is down range on target. . Not on pen an paper. You have to actually visually witness the flight and its characteristics, not just push a few buttons an a calculator and call it Fact.
It is place to start, and ONLY a place to start. That is ALL!
Knife
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In my case of the TJ's i have .. the misunderstanding of bore / land as being vaguely understood is MY OWN ignorance and nothing more.
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We are working on the 177 production. Our HP pins right now are a problem in the manufacturing process - breaking. I machined new pins and had them heat treated. I dropped them off at the grinder and will be a few weeks until I get them back still. These pins are held to +- .0001 so I can not hold that on my machine and the bottle neck is the grinder.
Once we get them back we will restart our testing. Results so far looking pretty good, like any ammo, some guns love em and some don't. Should restart testing mid April but the shutdowns my effect that well.
Nick, Not knowing what material you are using for thee pins, I'm not sure if it is the material of the heat treat. However, if breakage persist, I would suggest S-7 as it has very high impact resistance, and torque resistance. If yo are using any type of stainless what so ever, Don't there is no true stainless hat has superior shock resistance other that the exotics which are not true stainless Steels although marketed as such.
These are 154-cm. ATS-35 154-CPM and Powdered metallurgy D-2 and D-4.
Knife/Mike
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Scott, your knowledge of fine accurate pellet shooters is beyond approach.
If I were searching for a very accurate combo, you would be #1 on on my list of the people who know exactly what they are talking about thru you vast experience.
It would no doubt strike you a little odd If not down right insulting if I told you sure Scott, but I have to call JSB to see what the real truth is. LOL! ;)
Particularly in an application they have no experience in what so ever. this is pretty much where Travis left the conversation. Odd, considering my experience on the subject, and Nicks lack of same. Not disrespecting Nick, he is just now venturing into .177 slugs.
At this time, Tofazfou is the first I would consider consulting on the subject. Luckily, he and Nick are friends as well as is Dyotat100. ;)
I will fully admit, the listings of the TJ's can be confusing. There is really no reason you should be up on it as it just isn't what you normally do. (Although it seems you may very well be about to be.) ;) 8)
For those wanting to shoot the forthcoming NSA .177 offerings in the .172 slug barrel, it is an easy matter to futher size down using the NOE System. Easy-Peasy. ;) The catch is the twist to length ratio. (not the weight), Only by testing will we learn the feasibility of them in the actual slug barrels.
I have simply got to find room for a small lathe. I have a TJ's here in .172 that I need to fit in the Mini. ::) ;D
Knife/Mike
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I keep re-reading this thread. I see it becoming a reference document for learning about smallest-bore slug-shooters.
Knife- thanks for sharing your insight.
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We are working on the 177 production. Our HP pins right now are a problem in the manufacturing process - breaking. I machined new pins and had them heat treated. I dropped them off at the grinder and will be a few weeks until I get them back still. These pins are held to +- .0001 so I can not hold that on my machine and the bottle neck is the grinder.
Once we get them back we will restart our testing. Results so far looking pretty good, like any ammo, some guns love em and some don't. Should restart testing mid April but the shutdowns my effect that well.
Nick, Not knowing what material you are using for thee pins, I'm not sure if it is the material of the heat treat. However, if breakage persist, I would suggest S-7 as it has very high impact resistance, and torque resistance. If yo are using any type of stainless what so ever, Don't there is no true stainless hat has superior shock resistance other that the exotics which are not true stainless Steels although marketed as such.
These are 154-cm. ATS-35 154-CPM and Powdered metallurgy D-2 and D-4.
Knife/Mike
Normally my pins are A8 but this time I used S7
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Scott, your knowledge of fine accurate pellet shooters is beyond approach.
If I were searching for a very accurate combo, you would be #1 on on my list of the people who know exactly what they are talking about thru you vast experience.
It would no doubt strike you a little odd If not down right insulting if I told you sure Scott, but I have to call JSB to see what the real truth is. LOL! ;)
Particularly in an application they have no experience in what so ever. this is pretty much where Travis left the conversation. Odd, considering my experience on the subject, and Nicks lack of same. Not disrespecting Nick, he is just now venturing into .177 slugs.
At this time, Tofazfou is the first I would consider consulting on the subject. Luckily, he and Nick are friends as well as is Dyotat100. ;)
I will fully admit, the listings of the TJ's can be confusing. There is really no reason you should be up on it as it just isn't what you normally do. (Although it seems you may very well be about to be.) ;) 8)
For those wanting to shoot the forthcoming NSA .177 offerings in the .172 slug barrel, it is an easy matter to futher size down using the NOE System. Easy-Peasy. ;) The catch is the twist to length ratio. (not the weight), Only by testing will we learn the feasibility of them in the actual slug barrels.
I have simply got to find room for a small lathe. I have a TJ's here in .172 that I need to fit in the Mini. ::) ;D
Knife/Mike
I have been selling 177 slugs and shooting them since 2016 before this 172 craze ever started
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Nick,
I know this is not a one on one reach out to you ... but can you please follow up letting us know when the .177 production on the HS machines has us able to purchase bulk cost effective slugs.
Thank you,
Scott
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We are working on the 177 production. Our HP pins right now are a problem in the manufacturing process - breaking. I machined new pins and had them heat treated. I dropped them off at the grinder and will be a few weeks until I get them back still. These pins are held to +- .0001 so I can not hold that on my machine and the bottle neck is the grinder.
Once we get them back we will restart our testing. Results so far looking pretty good, like any ammo, some guns love em and some don't. Should restart testing mid April but the shutdowns my effect that well.
Nick, Not knowing what material you are using for thee pins, I'm not sure if it is the material of the heat treat. However, if breakage persist, I would suggest S-7 as it has very high impact resistance, and torque resistance. If yo are using any type of stainless what so ever, Don't there is no true stainless hat has superior shock resistance other that the exotics which are not true stainless Steels although marketed as such.
These are 154-cm. ATS-35 154-CPM and Powdered metallurgy D-2 and D-4.
Knife/Mike
Normally my pins are A8 but this time I used S7
They should give you much better service Nick. ;)
I can't help but wonder how baked on Teflon would do for easier release. I would not have thought much about it, however, a mold I recently received has it on the spru plate top surface and it does indeed release much easier. I was quite skeptical of it. Happily wrong! ;D [size=78%] [/size]
Knife/Mike
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Scott, your knowledge of fine accurate pellet shooters is beyond approach.
If I were searching for a very accurate combo, you would be #1 on on my list of the people who know exactly what they are talking about thru you vast experience.
It would no doubt strike you a little odd If not down right insulting if I told you sure Scott, but I have to call JSB to see what the real truth is. LOL! ;)
Particularly in an application they have no experience in what so ever. this is pretty much where Travis left the conversation. Odd, considering my experience on the subject, and Nicks lack of same. Not disrespecting Nick, he is just now venturing into .177 slugs.
At this time, Tofazfou is the first I would consider consulting on the subject. Luckily, he and Nick are friends as well as is Dyotat100. ;)
I will fully admit, the listings of the TJ's can be confusing. There is really no reason you should be up on it as it just isn't what you normally do. (Although it seems you may very well be about to be.) ;) 8)
For those wanting to shoot the forthcoming NSA .177 offerings in the .172 slug barrel, it is an easy matter to futher size down using the NOE System. Easy-Peasy. ;) The catch is the twist to length ratio. (not the weight), Only by testing will we learn the feasibility of them in the actual slug barrels.
I have simply got to find room for a small lathe. I have a TJ's here in .172 that I need to fit in the Mini. ::) ;D
Knife/Mike
I have been selling 177 slugs and shooting them since 2016 before this 172 craze ever started
Then I stand corrected. Happily! I didn't start shooting slug until after 2007. LOL but didn't get serious about it until 2011. Long before Ced. tried the .172, our plan was to build a .222 or .223. originally, using re-purposed .22 rim fire and or Hornet bbl.s. . Ced. went with the .257, .338 and the .172, I with the .222, .250 .257 and a few odd ones. Lots to learn! ;)
I hope in the future TJ's will make a proper shorter slug shooting prpper twist .257. As it, I had to step doen to a .250 to get the proper twist. the L/W barrels ion .25 actually have a twist that works with the .250 shortened slugs most peoples guns can shoot at a decent fps. the TJ's works well for full length .257's but sadly, most AG's do not have the power to use the full length slugs.
Your offerings fit exactly n the midle of the much needed sizes fo rmost guns. We just need to talk TJ or someone else into producing the bbl's.
I am testing liners from Brownells Gun Smithing Supply and am very encouraged with the results with the .22 barrel so far.
Being disabled, I very much appreciate the low cost of them yet high quality as well. Very smooth bores! ;)
Knife/Mike
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I sure am glad y’all broke trail to slug shooting. Now that I’ve tried it I’m hooked.
I’m considering doing a .177 slug build while my .172 is down mostly for the ease of being able to use oem parts and build simple and quick. When Nick is able to get slugs out cheap then I run out of excuses.
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Of interest is the fact that RoachCreek, (lani 52) was and is a true pioneer of slug shooting at long range with Air. He posted may threads here a few years bac,k on the subject.
Sadly, he was lambasted, made fun of, told he was bringing the world of air gunning to an end. As many forward thinking Pioneers in many fields, he was the butt of many threads of ridicule and many an attack here back then.
Now with his eye sight failing, he is at least welcomed back. I missed his guidance in casting here on the forum. We kept in touch by phone for years. His guidance was and is invaluable. We have a lot to thank him for, and his perseverance.
The entire industry has now taken notice. Things are changing at lightning speed. Thanks to people like him.
the neysayers are now pretty much silent on the sky is falling attitude. If anything out there will draw the attention of the authorities here in the U.S., it is the Full Autos. Not the slug shooters. I mean, they have been around sine the 1600's in one forum or another.
Only recently have airguns been treated as child's toys. and mostly that was in the U.S. thanks to companies such as daisy and like companies. Many Countries have been shooting slug guns in Bench rest competitions for long range for years now.
We were very far behind. As we have been in Air Gunning in general. This is fast becoming a different story. Baby steps so far. But it is coming. ;)
KnifeMaker
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I have a custom mandrel for 177 for TJ that I will be testing. NSA plans to offer drop in ready barrels in the upcoming months. I just gave my friend a custom 25 cal I did for his Impact. These are all custom mandrels not available from TJ unless your name is Nick Nielsen. I have a 177, 22 and 25 custom mandrel and test barrels here at my shop. Starting with 25 cal in the Impact. Once my cnc machine is programmed I can make barrels pretty easy and my machine will even cut the transfer ports at the same time. After I get the 25 Impact barrel I will do Impact in the other 2 calibers and I plan to use TJ 30 cal mandrel as well.
I am starting with barrels to shoot pellets and slugs, hopefully, and may buy more mandrels for specific uses depending on the demand. The picture is my 25 barrel in the Impact using factory shroud and a prototype LDC.
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Scott
We expect once we get the punches back we will start testing right away and assuming the punches are not breaking we should be able to be in production in about 1-2 weeks after receiving the punches. We expect the punches in a week to 10 days from now and then if all goes well about 2 weeks after that. Could be faster if all comes together but I think those are reasonable times. We expect pricing to be same as our 22 cal ammo with 400 slugs for 17 grain and below. We plan on 400 being the max amount per box. It comes down to the less us of lead per box more time to make them and they start to wash each other out.
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Thank you sir ... ;)
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Glad to hear your getting it worked out Nick. I'm looking forward to the lower prices on the .177 slugs.
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Knife, every time RoachCreek posts, there's a snippet or tidbit everybody should be paying attention to. I noticed this about 18 months ago- a gem here, a nugget of gold there. With all the other hub-bub, I think slugs are my pathway to long range... I also didn't realize there was a lot of other history there from a few years back.
I still love my wadcutters for short range pesting and have no intention of changing otherwise for "close-in", but slugs offer a lot of other capabilities.
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Now that's what I like to hear! Nick's "ON IT"! We can't let Fredric at FX have all the fun!
He was dead set against it at the first. But then I well remember his saying that he would NEVER build a bull Pup. LOL ::) ;D
Knife
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So I'm new to using springers and I was wondering if I could use the slug in a gamo varmint or are these slugs only for pcps? Thanks for the help.